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Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30847
Printed Date: 21 November 2024 at 2:27pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: --------------------------------------------------
Posted By: Muslim75
Subject: --------------------------------------------------
Date Posted: 16 August 2014 at 10:36am
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Replies:
Posted By: kodoo
Date Posted: 18 August 2014 at 4:08am
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Salam dear brother. Judaism and Christianity have the right to exist, and in the Holy Quran, Allah (subhanahu wa taala) says that, just like anyone, they will exist and differ among themselves till the day of judgment. (see, Quran, 5:13-14)
And in fact we can have discussions with people of the scriptures. And Quran calls us Muslims and the people of scriptures to come together, find common grounds and unite in the essence of tawheed (oneoness of Allah). However, I agree, some of the Christian members here are not here to do that. They don't study Islam from Islamic sources. Rather they choose only to preach Christianity. And it bears problem. It turns into a one sided "conversation". Please, don't think I am judgmental. I personally know some of the Christians here. For instance, the member "Caringheart" was banned in other islamic websites (sunni forums, shiachat, etc.) for preaching Christianity always , insulting the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hp) and speaking hatred against vigilant Muslims and Christians, especially against Palestinians. S/he had thousands of posts on those forums, yet with no knowledge of even a verse in the Holy Quran. What s/he would do, was just to post "Christian" "arguments", support the invasion and crimes of the zionist entity against Palestinian Muslims and Christians, be a mouthpiece of American imperialism, etc. And posting and advertising Islamophopic stuff always. And when Muslim brethren would reply and explain the issues, the typical response you get from "Caringheart" was "I wouldn't know about these things you talk about. But it seems so unnatural and wrong to me!". Playing the dumb. lol. It tells you how "TRUTH SEEKER" this Christian member and alike here are. (the account used in sunniforum I don't remember the nickname, but on shiachat it was "Clynn" or something.) Brother, if they were here to do research on Islam and to discuss things and find a common ground, it would be nice. But it isn't. That is why, you always see them quote Christian texts. And they refer you to Islamophobic books, websites, etc. I am not talking about sincerely searching/studying Christian brethren here btw. What I said above goes for certain person and alike. Thanks. ma salam |
Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 20 August 2014 at 8:47am
Muslim do not believe what God said to his Prophets and THEY simply believe this because Muhammad said so his followers did not even compose the Quran properly after Muhammad passed away.
When Muhammad died in 632 CE, the Qur�an had not been recorded and collected into a book. Instead, Muslims memorized large portions of the Qur'an. This was especially true of people who knew Muhammad in person. The Qur�an means to recite. It is possible that some of the verses had been recorded on bones, rocks, or hides before Muhammad died. Regardless, it didn�t take long for the early Muslims to decide that they needed to have the Qur�an collected into a book. The original Qur�an was completed by 634 CE. It is important to understand that a political process is what produced the Qur�an. In 633 CE, a military battle caused 700 Muslims to be killed. A close friend of Muhammad (named Salim) that could recite a large portion of the Qur�an was killed. What would happen if all the close followers of Muhammad were killed? Early Muslims wanted to maintain the purity of the Qur�an as Muhammad had spoken it. So the original Qur�an of 634 CE was created during the political reign of Abu Bakr. This original Qur�an came to be known as the Hafsah codex (about 10 years later when Hafsah began to maintain it). However, this most important original manuscript of the Qur�an was destroyed by Muslim leaders in 667 CE. (Hafsah was one of Muhammad's wives. She maintained the original Qur'an until her death in 667 CE. Muslim leaders wanted to destroy the original Qur'an before Hafsah died. But she refused to hand over the codex for burning. She was successful until her death [Refer to Al-Masahif 24] It is most important to ask, "Why did Hafsah not wish to have this most important original manuscript of the Qur'an to be burnt?"). It appears that the Hafsah codex was one of the last Qur�ans to be willingly destroyed by Muslims. Since the original Qur�an was not accepted, what happened to cause such a drastic change that required the original Qur�an to be destroyed? Why wasn�t the Hafsah codex maintained since it was created (in 634 CE) within two years after Muhammad died (in 632 CE)? The history of how the Qur�an came to be recorded comes from reliable Muslim source materials. These are called the Hadith. Problems for the Qur�an began to occur during the reign of the 3rd political leader of Islam, whose name is Uthman (644 TO 656 CE). It appears that as the Islamic faith spread with military conquest across a large area, the soldiers were reading different versions of the Qur�an. These men wondered, "Is the Qur�an truly as pure as those close to Muhammad believed and taught?" |
Muslim75 wrote:Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 August 2014 at 3:27pm
Greetings kodoo, When you study Christianity do you study from 'Christian' and secular sources, or only from islamic source? Do you choose 'only to preach islam'? Have you ever considered that your conversations are one-sided? As far as all your other references to me, you are off base. I study always from many sources, trying to see from both sides. Yes, I have difficulty seeing from the islamic side, and I do not understand all of what you believe, and how you support some of the things which you do, and so yes I will state that, and I will question. Do you understand all of what Christians believe and support? Can you see things from their side or do you find it also hard to understand, and do you not also openly state this, and question Christians about why they believe as they do? Have you even tried to see things from the other side? asalaam. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 August 2014 at 3:29pm
You are being judgemental.... and you do not know me personally, and in fact all that you write shows that you do not know me at all. asalaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: kodoo
Date Posted: 23 August 2014 at 8:44pm
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I don't study Christianity. I don't wish to. And you can't force us to. If I did study however, I would start with reading the "Bible" however, not some answering christianity website. But you claim you study Islam, however through anti-Islamic BS.
And the thing is, I don't go to Christian forums to promote Islam (and I don't think they would allow me if I did), but you come to Islamic forums to promote the Americanized-Zion version of "Christianity". And that is why I tell you to stop this and instead study Islam if your aim is to do research. With all these years of trolling on Islamic forums, can you teach me one thing about Islam? What is Salah? Why do we pray? What do the postures (standing, bowing down, prostration) mean in Islam? Why one ruku but two sajda in every rakah? Can you name me one short surah in Quran and recite it? Or a Dua/Supplication verse from Quran or hadiths of Prophet and Ahlulbayt? I don't think so. So please stop this lie that you seek truth or study Islam. You don't. You just troll around promoting American-Zion imperialims. And you use the blessed name of Jesus for this filthy agenda. Do you know, the worst person in earth is he who sells his religion to the world. But who is worse than him is the person who sells his religion to the worldly benefits of others. You are selling the understanding of religion, truth and justice to the material aims of American govt and Zionists. How dare you support the criminal zionist entity! Curse of God and his Prophets, namely Jesus, be upon the criminals. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 25 August 2014 at 9:13pm
------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 6:09am
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Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 1:04pm
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Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 29 August 2014 at 6:13am
If Allah was alive maybe, Allah predates islam long before Muhammad existance.
History proves conclusively that before Islam came into existence, the Sabbeans in Arabia worshipped the moon-god Allah who was married to the sun-goddess. We have also seen that it was a matter of common practice to use the name of the moon-god in personal names in Muhammad's tribe. That Allah was a pagan deity in pre-Islamic times is incontestible. And so we must ask ourselves the question: why was Muhammad's God named after a pagan deity in his own tribe? It is an undeniable fact that an Allah idol was set up at the Kabah along with all the other idols of the time. The pagans prayed towards Mecca and the Kabah because that is where their gods were stationed. It made sense to them to face in the direction of their god and pray since that is where he was. Since the idol of their moon god, Allah, was at Mecca, they prayed towards Mecca. It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" Allah had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.
As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God. Such "after the fact corrective revelations" are very common with cults. Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 53 Surah Najm verses 19-23: Have you considered El-Lat and El-'Uzza and Manat the third, the other? What, have you males, and He females? That were indeed an unjust division. They are naught but names yourselves have named, and your fathers; God has sent down no authority touching them.
This was mentioned in the Quran there are records in the hadiths about Allah's daughters
Muhammad's desire had been realised; the Quraysh accepted him. The Muslims who had fled to Abyssinia heard about this and many of them began to return to Mecca. The Quraysh accepted Muhammad because he had, "spoken of (their) gods in splendid fashion" (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166). The Islamic explanation as to why Muhammad accepted the idols is that he desired a way to attract the Quraysh and Satan used this opportunity to put these words on Muhammad's lips: I am not doing this to insult islam or anything I just want to know the truth. |
Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 22 November 2014 at 2:26am
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Posted By: kingskid
Date Posted: 23 November 2014 at 8:03am
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Muslim75 if you don't want the Bible quoted to you, don't comment to what Christians post. Why are you on an interfaith forum, anyway? Obviously, Muslims quote the Quran and Christians quote the Bible, so you need to grow up and conduct yourself with intelligence and tolerance on this forum. ------------- kingskid |
Posted By: kingskid
Date Posted: 23 November 2014 at 5:21pm
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Muslim75 and kodoo, as stated earlier, this forum is for interfaith discussion, not intrafaith discussion. Obviously, you two gentlemen must have such a morbid fear and/or hatred of Christianity that you are truly unable to see beyond your own prejudices. Thus, you will be impotent to add to the richness of a discussion about different religions, atheism, humanism, agnosticism, or whatever. If you cannot separate your emotions from an intellectual discussion about such matters without spiraling down into a fear-driven tirade and personal attack on Christians, you risk showing your bigotry and dishonor your own religion. Undoubtedly there are forums where you can spew your vitriol, otherwise, expect to be challenged by Christians. We are not your punching bag, so back off. Peace. ------------- kingskid |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 24 November 2014 at 9:32am
Muslims like to make a great fuss about how well the Quran has been preserved versus the Bible; but from that point of view, the hadith are surely the least reliable of the three sources. Even Muslims acknowledge that they are of varying authenticity, and many of them are outright fabrications. Why would you reject the Bible, but accept the hadith? And regarding the authority of Jesus: don't Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet? Doesn't that make him a "man of authority"? ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 24 November 2014 at 12:38pm
Ron, the Quran and the books contained in the "Bible" like Torah, Psalm, and Gospel are God's books, His revelations, Hadith is not God's revelation rather narrations of the companions of the prophet, word of men and thus of course need to be looked differently. As a Muslim, we are told to believe that those previous revelations were from Allah. We are also told that the Quran is the Final revelation from God and that the previous scriptures were altered. For those of us who have studied both the books know the results well. And it is that outcome that speaks for itself. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:49am
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The Quran was also altered as the Sana'a scriptures show. Even Mohamed in person abrogated = changed the Quran. Does this imply that God changed his mind in between ? If not why not ? Why should God protect one holy book (the Quran) but not another (the Bible) ? Are there different levels of "holyness ? Strange, Airmano |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 28 November 2014 at 12:38pm
Greetings Hasan, Can you tell me where in the qur'an it says the 'the previous scriptures were altered'? Shukran and salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 29 November 2014 at 4:09am
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Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 29 November 2014 at 4:14am
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Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 29 November 2014 at 4:21am
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Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 29 November 2014 at 4:23am
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Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 30 November 2014 at 10:18am
Greetings Muslim75, I have read a good deal of the qur'an, but have not completed it. The passages that muslims quote, I do not find to say that the earlier scriptures were corrupted. In fact I find that the qur'an confirms the earlier scriptures ... telling people that they should 'consult the people of the Book'. What I have found the qur'an to criticize is that the 'people of the Book' (or I think more accurately, the Jews) were not following(or practicing) what their scriptures tell them. Have you read, and studied, the qur'an fully? Or do you only know what you have been taught in this regard? Could you please cite specific passages? Shukran and salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 30 November 2014 at 2:57pm
Amigo, short memory or you just like me to do the looking up work, anyway it is good I am the one getting reward, God willing, :) "So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good."5:13 "O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book." 5:15 There are more, but I guess it answers your question. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 30 November 2014 at 3:05pm
AssalamAlykum, Al Quran was sent as a revelation to the prophet. It is word of God, and we treat it as such. Hadith were narrations of people other than the prophet, they were not the words of God. And since there was a danger of some hadiths being fake, as there were and still are a very strict code of classifying and labeling them was followed to this day. Sura 53 talks about revelation of the Quran and Pophets's (pbuh) journey to the heavens. Jazakallah, Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |