I am sure many inspite of struggling hard to be good,repenting of their sins,doing things religiously etc still undersgoes fear of hell and judgement.You might keep wondering whats next after death? or how to get assured to enter heaven with God.

Let me put before you some assuring verses said by Jesus christ regarding this that can help you overcome if you put your trust in him.if you read it slowly and allow the words of Jesus to move into your soul with understanding,then you can have the soothing effect of it that slowly can bring assurance to you.there is no debate here.Just that christ words soothes the soul.

do no read with a baised mind ,it dosent have any effect if read like that. so experience this beautiful journey now towards God now.

Come unto me all who are weary and burdened, I shall give you rest (Matt: 11:28).

Jesus said I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. (John 14:2-3)

Bismillah, (In the Name of the One, the Eternal God, who has no partners or sons),

Allah, SWT, will guide us and forgive us without one single other human being in between if he so chooses.  And although we refer to him as "he", he is neither male nor female. 

To worship Allah, SWT, we need only live a peaceful existence remembering that Allah, SWT, created everything and praising it as we go along with such words as BISMILLAH, Ma'ShahAllah -- With God's blessing and intervention, Al-Hamdulilah -- All praise and glory to Allah, AstagfirAllah -- The forgiveness of Allah. 

Allah, Praise and Glory to Him, has a hundred names we can call him on from the Quran, and a thousand others as well.  We call on our Forgiving Lord without a priest, sheikh, or friend if we don't have one. 

Allah, The Glorious beyond measure, listens and hears and responds to us, so we have no fear except fear called Taqwa, fear of displeasing someone we love so much and wish to please with all of our hearts.

Ameen.

Gospel man wrote: Jesus said �For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.(Jn 3:17)

No Gospel man Jesus never said that. Why do you attribute a lie to Jesus? And why do you demean God? God is far above the  attributes of procreation which He has attributed to every living creature.  God was never begotten nor does He beget! He is the Eternal, the Absolute and none is like HIM!

Jesus said: 019.030 :He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;

019.031 :"And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;

019.032 :"(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;

019.033:"So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

019.034 :Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.

019.035 :It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.

019.036:Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.

Maryga wrote: Gospel man wrote: Jesus said �For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.(Jn 3:17) No Gospel man Jesus never said that. Why do you attribute a lie to Jesus? And why do you demean God? God is far above the  attributes of procreation which He has attributed to every living creature.  God was never begotten nor does He beget! He is the Eternal, the Absolute and none is like HIM! Jesus said: 019.030 :He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; 019.031 :"And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; 019.032 :"(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; 019.033:"So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! 019.034 :Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. 019.035 :It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is. 019.036:Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.

Dear maryga

The above refrences given by me are from the bible and not from the quran. The bible is written by the disciples  of Jesus christ what they heard from him in the very first century.hence  the information of what Jesus said and did are more reliable than the quran which comes 600 years later after the events.its like me writing about muhammed in this century will be useless because the events have already passed.hence I suggest that you honestly look into the bible which is inspired by the spirit of God through the disciples and you will find forgiveness of sins and eternal life in heaven and the greatest assurance in Jesus christ.amen

pauline35 wrote: Dear Gospelmap, Did you know that I have tried many time to read the Christian bible but I still find no faith in it?

Dear pauline

I understand your struggle to belive something which you might have not properly understood.If you have any questions do write to me so that I will try to calrify it.Just want to say that Jesus loves you and he alone can save you from the result of sin and judgement to eternal life with God in heaven.

Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatu Allahi Wa Baraaktuh

Dear Gospelmap,

   I suggest you read the Quran too. You will find a lot of reassurance in it. It is a flawless book that is a miracle in itself. I don't mean to sound argumentative, but my honest opinion is that i should follow a flawless book that claims to be the word of God than a book carrying many contradictions in it making the same claim; because I believe God does not err.

Gospelman thankyou for the information. In Islam we don�t force our agenda upon anyone nor are we aggressive in trying to convert anyone to Islam. We are not sly either by bribing all in the name of charity and then inject our agenda on the vulnerable.We simply convey the message and if a person is sincerely seeking the truth will come forward investigate and either accept it or reject it. The choice is upon the individual.

This discussion forum is entitled �ISLAM for Non-Muslims� not �Christianity for Muslims�. Despite that don�t you think it is very uncourteous rather rude to be pushing your agenda here? To top it you have the habit of aggressively propagating your beliefs by typing in bold bright red letters which I find very offensive.

The material you appear to be using for your propaganda seems to be coming from the Watchtower publications of New York where selective verses from the Qur�an are used to misguide Muslims to turn them away from Islam�s fundamental belief of the ONENESS OF GOD. Clearly those of you who have read the Qur�an know that there are many more verses that clearly denounce and condemn the association of anyone with God the Almighty. Why then do you neglect and pick and choose what suits you?  Not only that even what you have chosen to use, has also been manipulated to suit the beliefs of Christianity.

Gospelman earlier you or those who publish the literature you use believed in the concept of Trinity, but now you classify them as �Wrong Acts and False Beliefs of Judaism and Christendom�. May God guide you -  congratulations you have taken one step in the right direction. However, many Christians still continue to believe in the trinity and May God guide them all to the Right Path!

Since you have chosen to come on to Islamicity and on �Islam for Non-Muslims� let me tell you just three things why I believe you are wrong about Jesus:

1. God the Creator of the Universe and everything beyond created everything living. He only needs say �BE� and it �IS�. While the parents value the birth of a child, we all know how painful, sickening and rather dirty is the process of childbirth. Where does the child come from at childbirth? Would God in all His Power and Magnanimity come to earth in that horrible way as we low human beings come? Did Mary have to put up for nine months and suffer the pangs of childbirth to give birth to God?  How demeaning is this? Glory to God. He is Far Far Above what you attribute to HIM.

2. Christianity believes that man is born in sin and the blood of Jesus alone can cleanse him  This stems from the fact that Adam sinned therefore all man is born of sin. Here again a great injustice is attributed to God by attributing a sin to a new born child who has not committed any sin. This is akin to slavery in the past where the debts of the parents had to be repaid for by generations even though they in fact were not responsible for borrowing. This sort of injustice is attributed to God when God is the Greatest dispenser of Justice and is the Most Forgiving and Merciful!

3. As a man of religion I assume you believe in the power of prayer. Muslims are required to pray five times a day and a minimum of 20 times a day practising Muslims pray to God to Guide them to the Right Path. Do you think that God does not listen to their constant pleas for the Right Guidance? How often do Christians seek God�s guidance � just on Sunday mornings? May be a few ignorant brainwashed ones. Others have simply left Christianity because your concepts make absolutely no sense.

Bismillah,

There are Christian Evangelists on the tv and radio here in America.  I do not want to come to an Islaamic website and see the same thing going on.  If you had questions about Islaam, we would gladly answer them. 

Mary gave you a great response, why did you tear it apart?  Don't you see that your proseltyzing is not appreciated here?  Why do you come to an Islaamic website to promote Christianity?  It's just rude.

Please stop posting any topics like this that are solely to promote your religion on a website for Muslims.

Bismillah,

When I asked you a question, "why ... That is merely rhetorical.  In other words, don't answer; just stop it, please.

pauline35 wrote: Dear Gospelmap, My questions are who wrote the bible? I believe Jesus was the second last prophet. But why is that Christian worship Jesus more than the GOD himself?

pauline,greetings.I really appreciate your question and indeed a truthful one.

The Bible is a greek word for "biblios" meaning books.hence its a collection of diffrent books written by various prophets,messengers and apostles etc. under the inspiration of the holy spirit. they were all written in its social,political,ethical and spiritual context.through that context God reveals himself-his divine attributes,dealings, nature , heart and his relationship with humankind. God spoke  through these prophets,messengers and apostles to address the issues pertaining life. They were spoken or verbal in nature in first instance and later they were written down to preserve what God acutally spoke regarding the past,present and the future and the way he dealt with people.God spoke to these prophets and messengers regarding the human nature and the solution that he offers. The new testament gospels also are narratives written by the apostles what they saw ,heard and taught from Jesus.(1 john 1:1-4) They memorised all that happenings to tell the world what actually transpired during Jesus time.Jesus never wrote any book but entrusted all to his followers of that century under the guidance of the holy spirit (the spirit of God) which he send after his ascension into heaven. hence even though  they were written by human hands as an eye witnesses  of the actual events they were under the inspiration and the power of the holy spirit.

Jesus said 12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. ( john 16:12-15).

now your question of what makes us to wroship Jesus ?.we dont worship Jesus just because we think he is God but we worship him because he showed  us that he is God. the disciples of Jesus who were with him also testified that he is indeed the God who has come in human nature.

Jesus said anyone who has seen me has seen (God) the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? .Jesus said �The Father and I are one (John 10:31-32 and 14:9).

"For in christ all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,"(Col 2:9)

I come from a non christian background and had no peace in my life for many years though outwardly I seemed happy.I plunged into sin and guilt and fear of judgement. My personal sin left me with all that. since I knew God exist and he is a holy God the fear of life after death haunted me of hell and punishment. (If God is  merciful to forgive all sins that I did ,then he will remain only merciful and not holy and Just as he did nothing to deal with my sins ,but if he deals with it and forgives me then he is both just and merciful) My search ended in christ were I saw him both merciful and holy.On the cross of Jesus christ, God dealt with my sins and forgave me  of that sins.the moment I trusted Jesus as my lord and savior ,I felt as if a great burden of sin passing away.I felt life fully cleansed and got assured from his word that ALL MY SINS ARE FORGIVEN IN CHRIST AND THAT I HAVE AN ASSURED HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.I am free of guilt and fear of judgement.that is the reason that I share this goodnews of God's love and justice with all of you so that you too can find that hope in him. Faith in christ Jesus  is not a conversion of an outward man made system or religion but an inward change of mind and acute joy of a relationship with God.since now I am born through the spirit of God , I can dare to call God my father not master.I can sit in his presence enjoying him and adoring him.

May you all find that great joy today.

[QUOTE=pauline35]Dear Gospelmap,

Thank you for sharing the moment about Jesus. However, about the people whom written the Bible is kind of unconvincing and confusing because to Christian, the Bible was written by Prophets, messengers, apostles etc and that means many people had poured out their views and opinions into one bible. That also means that the bible was not word god alone but word of many selected people mostly Jews.

dear pauline.greetings.thankyou for the response.I appreciate your criticism and take it as a honest remarks to move towards truth. I am sure we are not moving towards a christian versus muslim debate since it accomplishes nothing.so my answers will be more driven towards enocountering God whom we love so dearly. At the same time we must know God too loves us and reveals himself to us in a way that is unique.lets be open to that unique experience with him.

The bible surely is written by human hands using human language to the human beings but the content and solution for that particular context came from God.

Above all you must understand that no prophecy of scripture came about by prophets own interpretaion ,for prophecy never had its origin in the will of man but men spoke as they were carried  along by the holy spirit(2pet1:20-21)

Qur�an too was written down by memorizing (using human mind), written by scribes(by human hands)down over a period of more than 23 years, even though the revelation is claimed to be from Gabriel. Human (scribes)  hands ,human materials used for writing (like bones ,skins ,pots etc)and their minds(memory) were also involved in the writings. Now this is not to say that this is wrong thing but to say that for communicating to human beings -human appratus is a necessity even though the content comes from God.

pauline35 wrote: Dear Gospelmap, This is not conducive as it leads to many different churches like angelican, methodist, baptism etc. Especially angelican church, did Jesus ever said God allows the marriage of gays and lesbians? Why Christian think Jesus is God? I don't think God will ever reveals himself in the form of a human. If Jesus is God, and God is Jews, then this is not a religion for Asian as asians are not Jews. Then Jesus is only God for the Jews. Just my opinions.

Second response :

Well we as christians all agree on the major but differ on minors due to interpretations that we have,hence the bible is not wrong but human interpretations surely are.we see that too among muslim community be it the sunnis or shiates for who the succesor was or nation of Islam , Ahamadiyyas, Qadariyya, Tijaniyya sufism,Wahhabism After these, there are numerous splinter groups which are often named after the individual scholars who began them:  Hanifa, after Abu Hanifa; Maliki, after Malik ibn Anas; Shafi'i, after Muhammad ibn Idris al-Shafi'i; Zaydi, after Zayd ibn Ali; the Nusayri, Ismaili, Murji'ah, etc.

"The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the [sic] which we have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which we enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus:  namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion and make no divisions therein:  to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them..." (Sura 42:13)

So you see even after the quran commands  there are still disobidience within the  muslim community, there are also disobidience among christian community even when the bible condemns homosexuality,lesbianism,killings etc.so the bible is not wrong here but the people who disobey them surely are.

God can come in human form because we all are made in his image (divine character and nature ) as pointed in my response to maryga.hence there is nothing wrong for God to come in our likeness even though he is not like us.God is not like us but we are like him not in power and infinity but in his image.so he can surely come because he loves you and me with a special purpose.

Finally Jesus in his human nature came as a jew but in his divine nature he is God and not belonging to specific community alone.since Jesus is God he is for all and that is why he said

Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.(John 3:16)

Jesus loves you dear pauline so that you can have a wonderful relationship and eternal life in heaven through him.

Bismillah,

Allah, SWT, created the earth and all that is in it, including our beloved prophet Jesus, Issa.  As he created Adam from clay, he created Issa without a physical father.

Allah, The All-Powerful, The All-Merciful, does not require a human sacrifice, which is a pagan idea for those who don't believe in the Mercy of God, in order to forgive our sins. 

The story of Ibrahim in which Allah, SWT, illustrated to him and all people that while we need to be willing to sacrifice anything Allah, SWT, says, HE WILL NEVER REQUIRE A HUMAN BLOOD SACRIFICE IN ORDER TO FORGIVE OUR SINS OR FOR ANY OTHER REASON.

How can you look at this pagan sacrifice as merciful and forgiving when it is barbaric and cruel and unjust?  Muslims just have it so much easier than anybody else.  God doesn't require us to sacrifice or bear more than we can.  He doesn't make us go and confess to a human.  He accepts our Tawba, repentence, directly as long as we are sincere.

Anybody who thinks it's okay that you can do anything the rest of your life because somebody else will bear the burden of YOUR SIN, is deluded.  The devil is whispering in your ear to sin and continue and not to be afraid, because of this mistaken idea that you are forgiven, WHEN YOU ARE NOT!  You are sinning big time by giving our Glorious Lord a partner and/or child.

Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahamtu Allahi Wa Barakatuh.

Dear Gospelmap,

   Luke says in his prologue to Theophilus: 'Inasmuch as many have undertaken a narrative of the things which have been accomplished among us, just as they were delivered to us by those who from the beginning were the eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, it seemed good to me also, having informed myself about all things from their beginnings, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the truth concerning things of which you have been informed.'

  This is a straight forward confession that Luke didnt witness the events he describes in his Gospel. So who are the witness he got his information from? How can we trust his power of judging the people he asked if we don't even know their names or their backgrounds? He says 'it seemed good to me..'. This means he was acting according to his judgement and not God's guidance; because if that was the case, then any holy Christian priest or Pope is guided by God; which in turn means that the Crusades were good. Something i highly doubt. This is a very relative issue. Who is endowed with enough wisdom to judge that someone is guided by God while the other is just claiming it?

   It is true that we should not judge a faith through the acts of its followers. On the contrary, we should look at the source - the scriptures. To me God's message is divine. This fact comes for granted with the belief in God's perfection. Now I have two books claiming that they are the message of God: the Bible and the Quran. One is full of scientific contradictions, let alone contradictions within itself (non of which were answered back by the most knowledgeable evangelists), whilst the other is flawless, let alone reveals alot of scientific facts centuries before man was able to discover their truths. Which, logically should I follow? If you would like I can list many of the Bible's contradictions and many of the Quranic scientific miracles for you. If the witnesses that wrote down the Bible contradicted on some of the points (which are many), then some of these versions have to be wrong. And if we have limited knowledge to assess some of the verses, and we discover errors in them, then how can we prove that the rest is true if we don't have the knowledge or the tools to assess it?

   Now i give you another question: what would stop a man from converting into Christainity and doing all the crimes he wishes to knowing that Jesus washed his sins away? One can still love God and sin. Here is where Islam serves man justice. If a person sins, and repents, Allah shall forgive him because He is merciful. If he doesnt, Allah shall punish him justly, and then put him in heaven if he deserves it. Maybe someone has been good enough during his life to go straight to heaven without being punished beforehand to wash away his sins. But no where in Islam does anyone carry the burden of another person's sins. This is true mercy and justice.

   I am not being defensive here, but I say this as advice:

   Before spreading a message, please research it very well, know it back to front, and know that it is foolproof. Make sure (for your own sake) that you are not misguiding people as a result of hastiness.

Gospel Map wrote: maryga greetings.thanks for the response.you are confusing gospelmap and gospelman-maybe some other ID of a person who might have provoked you.In chrsitianity too we dont force anyone. truth needs to be shared and most of the  times it pricks.after sharing the message,if a person come forward we too help them to grant them a personal relationship with god that comes through Jesus christ. no one force anyone in religions.bribing in the name of charity is mere allegations that you raised.there are both physical and spriitual needs of a person hence its we cater to them.God has commanded us to be both charitable and spiritual which is a part a our faith.

Whether I call you Gospelman or map, my post is addressed to you and not anyone else. I find your writings very offensive firstly, as I have said before this is an Islamic website and not a Christian website. You guys are preaching at every corner � in the market places screaming �only jesus can save you etc�, knocking on doors of our houses, misusing our Qur�an and now infiltrating Islamic websites. On top of that your red bold is extremely offensive and sickening.

We are more confident than you that we have the truth, that God is the One and Only God, that He was never begotten nor does He beget. Our religion makes complete sense. You demean God by attributing to him a birth from a human being, to have eaten like a human being, to have excreted like a human being, to have troubled a human being in order to come into this earth! How low do you bring God? Yet you think you have the truth. Please keep it to yourself and you can continue screeching at market corners but don�t try your satanic versions upon those who have accepted the truth of Islam.

Unlike many Christians in Islam we do not accept homosexuality, we do not accept alcohol, we don�t believe in exposing our bodies, we don�t believe in gambling and the list goes on. If we sin we know that no one other than the One and Only God can forgive us if we sincerely repent. No ones blood is going to wipe out our sins. This is absolute rubbish to us. Our religion makes complete sense. We don�t go about changing the Word of God to suit the times. We don�t manipulate other people�s holy books to further our cause. We don�t ordain gay priests.  We know and believe that the Qur�an is the Word of God and is the absolute truth.

Maryga wrote: Gospel Map wrote: maryga greetings.thanks for the response.you are confusing gospelmap and gospelman-maybe some other ID of a person who might have provoked you.In chrsitianity too we dont force anyone. truth needs to be shared and most of the  times it pricks.after sharing the message,if a person come forward we too help them to grant them a personal relationship with god that comes through Jesus christ. no one force anyone in religions.bribing in the name of charity is mere allegations that you raised.there are both physical and spriitual needs of a person hence its we cater to them.God has commanded us to be both charitable and spiritual which is a part a our faith. Whether I call you Gospelman or map, my post is addressed to you and not anyone else. I find your writings very offensive firstly, as I have said before this is an Islamic website and not a Christian website. You guys are preaching at every corner � in the market places screaming �only jesus can save you etc�, knocking on doors of our houses, misusing our Qur�an and now infiltrating Islamic websites. On top of that your red bold is extremely offensive and sickening. We are more confident than you that we have the truth, that God is the One and Only God, that He was never begotten nor does He beget. Our religion makes complete sense. You demean God by attributing to him a birth from a human being, to have eaten like a human being, to have excreted like a human being, to have troubled a human being in order to come into this earth! How low do you bring God? Yet you think you have the truth. Please keep it to yourself and you can continue screeching at market corners but don�t try your satanic versions upon those who have accepted the truth of Islam. Unlike many Christians in Islam we do not accept homosexuality, we do not accept alcohol, we don�t believe in exposing our bodies, we don�t believe in gambling and the list goes on. If we sin we know that no one other than the One and Only God can forgive us if we sincerely repent. No ones blood is going to wipe out our sins. This is absolute rubbish to us. Our religion makes complete sense. We don�t go about changing the Word of God to suit the times. We don�t manipulate other people�s holy books to further our cause. We don�t ordain gay priests.  We know and believe that the Qur�an is the Word of God and is the absolute truth.

1.Maryga ,greetings.yes truth has to be shared and not kept to self hence you see christians doing that.If color cannot be used here whats the purpose of providing this in first place?.this is a forum were issues are talked,sometimes truth hurts.

2.How is that it deameans God to become human? humans are made in the image of God.Do you think there we are made in some others image other than God? how is that sleeping,excerting,crying,eating,taking birth sinful? does the quran says its sinful to do all that? comeon marga! seondly if Jesus did that he did it in his human nature.

3.who told you we accept homosexuality,gay,alcohol etc? thats rubbish allegations which I can tell also about muslim people and their atrocities, but that does not help because one cannot judge the religion based on the abuse done by some miscreants.the bible condemns alochol,homosexuality etc.

4.All allegation about changng word of God doesnt work.

hence dont be so baised ,you can acutally be missing truth if you do that and also missing the joy that comes through relationship with God through Jesus christ.

please note there are no verses that says the bible is changed in anyway.infact the quran exalts the bible.whatever is talked about the change is against some people who verbally does that .there are no verses that shows the bible is changed in written form.infact the quran says

..�If you are in doubt concerning that we reveal unto thee, then question or ask those who read the book before you (The bible). (Qur�an sura yunus 10:94)

Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahamatu Allahi Wa Barakatuh,

Dear Gospelmap,

   When a book claims that it is the word of God and supports this using scientific evidence that was only known to God when the revelation came into being, then it holds a case. But when a book claims that is was sent down by God and yet contains contradictions, then that automatically rules it out as being true. I also won't believe Joseph Smith's claim that he got revelations when he went into the forest just because he says so. He has to back it up with some kind of proof or miracle. Muhammed's miracle is the Quran. There is no way this book was written by a human let alone an illiterate one, with so much scientific detail.

   Now you say that none of the allegations were proven right. Well I say you haven't been doing your homework. I suggest you read a book called 'The Bible, The Quran and Science' by Maurice Bacaill, then read William Campbells retort. After you do this, watch the debate between Dr. Zakir Naik with William Campbell about his retort. And this is one of the many examples of how these allegations were proved to be right.

   Again I ask you, who are the real witnesses that the material of the bible was taken from? I mean by that their names, backgrounds history, anything that would give me an idea of who they are. 'People who witnessed these events' is not a good enough answer. For all I know they could have been people telling what they heard off others in their own way. There might be many sects in Islam but they all believe in the same exact flawless book. On the other hand, the Bible was changed numerous times over history and there were over 100 gospels before the final bible was compiled.

Thankyou Pauline, I really appreciate your wise input. I don't think any of us here are "scholars" in the real sense but I think most of us read the Qur'an everyday and understand it, that is why we are more than convinced about the truth of our religion. Not only that for those who pray and read the Quran regularly we see and experience God's revelations often so we know that we must continue to grasp this truth firmly and that is the only way to success both in this world and the next. Here are just a few verses from the Qur'an which I felt I must post:

009.030:The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! 

009.031:They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him). 

009.032 :Fain would they extinguish Allah's light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).

009.033:It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). 

009.034:O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah: announce unto them a most grievous penalty- 

009.035 :On the Day when heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, their flanks, and their backs.- "This is the (treasure) which ye buried for yourselves: taste ye, then, the (treasures) ye buried!" 

004.171:O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. 

004.172:Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). 

004.173:But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, He will give their (due) rewards,- and more, out of His bounty: But those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish with a grievous penalty; Nor will they find, besides Allah, any to protect or help them. 

004.174:O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest.

004.175 :Then those who believe in Allah, and hold fast to Him,- soon will He admit them to mercy and grace from Himself, and guide them to Himself by a straight way. 

 
 

First let me say that I'm sadden that Herjihad you can respond here but in the Islam and Ethics dialogue you have yet to respond to me as I have answered you inquiry with that said I'd like to make some points here. In my understanding of the world all religions presuppose some absolute truth. All religions presuppose some form of "release from ignorance." With the buddhist its the annihilation of the "self" called "Nirvana" with Christians its going to heaven and same with Muslims. there is always some way to attain a peace and though that there is a doctrine which tries to support that.

With that said let me say that I've heard Muslims say here that one has to be Muslim in order to attain that type of peace. Similar argument (even to a greater extent) also from Christians. My point here is that is goodness not enough for God eve if one doesn't understand or deny him? Is it not enough that a man is punished because he doesnt share a religion, a congreagation of some sort? there is a fear of hell because man is condemn even in light of his good nature and deeds all because he doesn't believe in the historical existence of prophetic figures.

I don't fear hell as I have seen it personally in life a dif there is a mor terrible and agnoizin existence and I'm going there all because my good nature and good spirit is not enough for a deity then why am I prompted to believe in such a deity? Funny the initial chat started out discussing the question at hand then it slowly discuss he nature of Jesus without actually answering the question so I would assume nobody here can't answer mine. I'm really sincere with my questioning and perhaps it takes a patient Muslim of understanding to discuss those issues with me. So without posting Koran verses in response to my inquiry please respond with, your own Islamic knowledge and answer the questions here.

 All the prophets sent to the world have different but yet the same message. What we humans have done with that message is the issue.

 It is comforting to think that Jesus came and dies for our sins and if we believe we will be saved. That is a lovely thought. But frankly there are too many mysteries and the afterlife is unknown until we reach that point. I pray that Allah as Mercy on my soul when I move on but there are no guarantees. None of us can understand Allah. Why do we live for a long time, why does the baby die? Why does an earthquake kill 100, 000 people, and yet that one woman live?

Bismillah,

Forgive me for getting sidetracked, Nima.  I was thinking about what you said in your post.  I do that sometimes.  The answer to this post of GM was really easy for me, and I'm very sure of what I feel about it, so I gave it right away. 

So as not to derail this topic, I'll go post to that one tomorrow, ISA, God Willing, as it is past my bedtime now!

Nima wrote: With that said let me say that I've heard Muslims say here that one has to be Muslim in order to attain that type of peace. Similar argument (even to a greater extent) also from Christians. My point here is that is goodness not enough for God eve if one doesn't understand or deny him? Is it not enough that a man is punished because he doesnt share a religion, a congreagation of some sort? there is a fear of hell because man is condemn even in light of his good nature and deeds all because he doesn't believe in the historical existence of prophetic figures.

Nima I�ll try to answer your question here and God willing Herjihad will answer you too. One who believes in the Oneness of God and obeys His commands is a Muslim. So no matter what you call yourself if you believe in the One & Only God and do not associate anything with Him then you are a Muslim.

Nima say for instance that your parents are providing you with everything � good food, a good house, love and plenty of money which you shower as gifts upon your friends. But while you receive the admiration of your friends for your generosity, you do not acknowledge any gratitude to your parents. Would this be right? I think certainly not! There is nothing worse than an ungrateful child and the parents would be extremely hurt and full of remorse.

Now God provides for you everything, absolutely everything � the air you breathe, the food you eat, the water you drink, the body you possess, the love of those relatives & friends and the list is endless. It is impossible to count God�s blessings on mankind. There is a verse in the Qur�an which says that if the sea was ink and there were seven such seas still the ink would not be enough to write the favours of God on mankind! And this is absolutely true! What we perceive is infinitesimal. And we don�t think enough and reflect how God produces that beautiful tree from that tiny seed which we scarcely saw. There is so much before us that we don�t reflect upon. After seeing and enjoying all that God has granted us how can we deny Him? No matter how good you are, when you don�t acknowledge the Creator who provided you with those conditions of goodness that you display, of what good are your deeds?

Your goodness should stem from acknowledging the Creator first and where will be your goodness if you yourself were miserable in pain and suffering? If all the above were denied to you?

Secondly, just as you are now most people are and have been. That is they did not know or grasp the existence of God who is the Creator of the Universe and everything beyond. Man in his foolishness worshipped everything - the sun, the moon, all sorts of animals and even human beings as god, instead of the real God. To correct man in his folly God in His kindness and Graciousness sent messengers to mankind. There have been thousands of messengers and only a few are well known. All these messengers brought home the truth of the existence of the One and Only True God, and that we should worship none but Him, that He was neither begotten nor does He beget, that we should associate none with Him. This was the message that was brought to mankind by Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed and many others (Peace be upon them all). Had it not been for them we would have continued in our folly of worshipping idols and other human beings etc. Therefore we have the highest regard for them (amongst human beings) and their teachings but we do not worship them.

I hope all the above answers your question that gratitude to God first and then to those who brought you the message is the first step one can take in order to achieve bliss and no matter how good you are if you deny the Provider, you would be lost.

Nima wrote: I don't fear hell as I have seen it personally in life a dif there is a mor terrible and agnoizin existence and I'm going there all because my good nature and good spirit is not enough for a deity then why am I prompted to believe in such a deity? 

Nima whatever you have seen of hell here are but tiny glimpses of the big picture. You may have seen volcanoes erupting and lava flowing, you may have seen the Tsunami, you may have seen the earthquakes � all on television. These are small reminders of the power of God and what one can expect when one denies His existence and associates anyone with Him, after the truth has reached them. It is easy to say that �I don�t fear hell�, but it is a lot more different there. As for me boiling water had scarred me a long time ago and I can never forget it. What if it was boiling oil? It would have been worse. But nothing can be worse than what we have been warned about and to prevent that God is not asking a lot. Just acknowledge His existence and live a righteous life.

Hell is a certainty, there is no point in fearing it. Rather fear Him who has power over all things and who created you out of nothing, leave those who try to instill fears in you as to make you accept their given way to safety. The only safety is with The Almighty, so seek a way to please Him, strive to achieve the eternal peace with Him through mending works. 

Community wrote: Hell is a certainty, there is no point in fearing it. Rather fear Him who has power over all things and who created you out of nothing, leave those who try to instill fears in you as to make you accept their given way to safety. The only safety is with The Almighty, so seek a way to please Him, strive to achieve the eternal peace with Him through mending works.

Hell is real.agreed.but ask yourself can you escape it with your own merits? Do you think God does nothing about sin when we cannot acutally pay the price thats so heavy? Does he merely keep watching and demanding that we pay its price when we cannot pay it? Oh ! if that is the faith you have where  allah demands us like a cruel master and not a loving father to pay the heavy price which you and I cannot pay then who need such a faith?

I look to Jesus who like a parent Jump into the water to save me when I dont know swimming.That is why he is the savior God who came to save us from the penalty of sin when we are not able to pay it. why  not trust him now.

Bismillah,

You misunderstand, GM.  Allah, Praise and Glory to Him, grants us heaven only through His Mercy.  Our works count and are important, yet heaven is attained through the One Eternal Compassionate God's Mercy.

Now GO AWAY WITH YOUR PROSELYTIZING.  YOU HAVE THE WORLD TO PREACH IN.  I CAN'T BELIEVE THE ADMINISTRATORS ALLOW PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITHS TO COME HERE AND PREACH AGAINST OURS. 

Anyone who has  a question is welcome, but that is NOT you gm.

Nima,

I agree with the point Mary made that we need to recognize our God created us and then dedicate the good works we do in life to Him and His glory. I also agree with Community that people get caught up in fearing God rather than pleasing him.  Taqwa is Arabic which in short means that we love Allah, SWT, so much that we fear displeasing Him because of this love.

It is a love of our Creator, who is Goodness and Mercy and Justice and Eternity, who is neither male nor female, and has no beginning nor end.

I too feel that it would be harsh and unjust to create people just to punish us even though we do good works and have good, kind souls throughout our lives.  Some people feel that to be Muslim you have to follow the rules established called the Shariah and follow one of so called four schools of thought.  But I don't. 

We have basic, simple guidelines in the Quran that guide us.  And I personally, possibly to the shock of everyone here, do not believe many of the things literally as I am not a desert bedoin, and my life is very different than the lives of the women during those times.  But the parables set clear guidelines for me to follow also.

I don't look at sin as something against God as much as it is against my own soul.  These guidelines God made for us are merely things that will help us and our communities in our lives here on earth.  Just as traffic signals are there to prevent accidents, many of the Islaamic rules that we follow are there to prevent personal depression and social dysfunction.  God loves us and does not seek to punish us as a harsh taskmaster to a slave.  He guides us and protects us from the harms inherent in this world, if only we would listen and keep listening!

herjihad wrote: Bismillah, You misunderstand, GM.  Allah, Praise and Glory to Him, grants us heaven only through His Mercy.  Our works count and are important, yet heaven is attained through the One Eternal Compassionate God's Mercy. Now GO AWAY WITH YOUR PROSELYTIZING.  YOU HAVE THE WORLD TO PREACH IN.  I CAN'T BELIEVE THE ADMINISTRATORS ALLOW PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITHS TO COME HERE AND PREACH AGAINST OURS.  Anyone who has  a question is welcome, but that is NOT you gm.

Greeitngs herjihad.ask yourself-If its only mercy then why worry about merit? But if its both mercy and merit then he actually dosent seem to be merciful because mercy seems to be extended at the cost of merit and not love.secondly are you really sure that you will be forgiven inspite of all merits and mercy-ARE YOU ASSURED IN THE QURAN THAT YOU WILL INDEED BE SAVED AND ENTER HEAVEN AND ESCAPE THE PUNISHMENT?

In christ we are fully assured because Jesus christ has taken the penalty out of his love for us.It dosent mean that we posses the license to sin but out of our love for him we obey him.

The thread that I have started has assuring verses that fully tells that Jesus will indeed save us.read it again and you will find the lord assuring you again and again

finally you blame us for proselytiszing when actually its the opposite were muslim missionaries are doing that too among the christians also coming in christian forums.I am sure the moderators are really good and wise enough because they allow the muslim-christian dialogue.God bless them for allowing the dawa.we allow people to get converted as per their conviction ,why do you have to force other muslims who wants to know christ and follow him with threats and punishing them ?.

gospelmap} Hell is real.agreed.but ask yourself can you escape it with your own merits? Do you think God does nothing about sin when we cannot acutally pay the price thats so heavy? Does he merely keep watching and demanding that we pay its price when we cannot pay it? Oh ! if that is the faith you have where  allah demands us like a cruel master and not a loving father to pay the heavy price which you and I cannot pay then who need such a faith? I look to Jesus who like a parent Jump into the water to save me when I dont know swimming.That is why he is the savior God who came to save us from the penalty of sin when we are not able to pay it. why  not trust him now. [/QUOTE wrote: My Lord is The Merciful The Ever Forgiving, and if you can not swim, he gave man the ability to learn. So learn how to swim. Pay the price? do good and have faith in The Merciful Ever Forgiving. Judgement is to Him and He has even power to make sins into good deeds in the hereafter. Again Judgement is His not yours, and He is over everything The Almighty.

My Lord is The Merciful The Ever Forgiving, and if you can not swim, he gave man the ability to learn. So learn how to swim. Pay the price? do good and have faith in The Merciful Ever Forgiving. Judgement is to Him and He has even power to make sins into good deeds in the hereafter. Again Judgement is His not yours, and He is over everything The Almighty.

Hell is real.agreed.but ask yourself can you escape it with your own merits? Do you think God does nothing about sin when we cannot acutally pay the price thats so heavy? Does he merely keep watching and demanding that we pay its price when we cannot pay it? Oh ! if that is the faith you have where  allah demands us like a cruel master and not a loving father to pay the heavy price which you and I cannot pay then who need such a faith?

I look to Jesus who like a parent Jump into the water to save me when I dont know swimming.That is why he is the savior God who came to save us from the penalty of sin when we are not able to pay it. why  not trust him now.

My Lord is The Merciful The Ever Forgiving, and if you can not swim, he gave man the ability to learn. So learn how to swim. Pay the price? do good and have faith in The Merciful Ever Forgiving. Judgement is to Him and He has even power to make sins into good deeds in the hereafter. Again Judgement is His not yours, and He is over everything The Almighty.

community,greetings-when you say the lord is merciful that shows he allows your and my sin without dealing with it, and if making our sins into good deeds then it makes him only merciful and not Holy and Just.If you are saying "PAY THE PRICE" that only shows there is no mercy because it merely demands merits from us which we are not capable of even to do. Its like asking a poor person to pay the million dollar debts which he cannot earn and pay.But if the giver wants to forgive that debt then he actually have to SACRIFICE that million dollars hence paying that price.that is what God did for you and me.since you and I cannot pay the price of sin that was against him he has to SACRIFICE before forgiving it.Therefore forgiveness comes at a cost.

I pray that the lord will oprn your eyes.