Peace
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32618
Printed Date: 27 November 2024 at 2:15pm
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Topic: Peace
Posted By: Caringheart
Subject: Peace
Date Posted: 17 December 2014 at 1:40pm
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Do muslim leaders speak a message of peace to their people... either in their governments, or in their mosques? 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you (the Word of Yshwe) look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever. This is the message you will hear in the church on any given Sunday, and at any given service. This was the message of Yshwe that is passed on each week in the church. F.D.Roosevelt - "In the days and in the years that are to come we shall work for a just and honorable peace, a durable peace, as today we work and fight for total victory in war. We can and we will achieve such a peace." "We seek peace�enduring peace. More than an end to war, we want an end to the beginnings of all wars�yes, an end to this brutal, inhuman, and thoroughly impractical method of settling the differences between governments." "Today we are faced with the preeminent fact that, if civilization is to survive, we must cultivate the science of human relationships�the ability of all peoples, of all kinds, to live together and work together, in the same world, at peace." All I have ever heard from my leaders are the words, the desires for peace. I think what strikes me is that I have never heard this message of peace coming from any islamic leader. Am I wrong? Shukran und salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Replies:
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 6:26pm
| We don't need an islamic leader to remind us about peace.Allah had given us Quran and teachings and life of prophet Muhammad S.A.W ( pbuh ),by following these a person becomes superpeaceful,eg Allah in ch 16 v 23, ch 4 v 173, ch 7 v 36 says Allah hate arrogant, Allah in ch 2 v 83 says be speak nicely to people,Allah in ch 28 v 83 says Allah will grant home of hereafter only to those who don't want mischief in the land.moreover I don't know about ur locality but before khutbah of friday prayer and daily after asir prayer an imam of masjid or learned islamic scholar talks about Allah and remind us about our duties in islam in mosques of our locality. |
Posted By: Emettman
Date Posted: 21 December 2014 at 12:48pm
No? Looking from Africa to Afghanistan, it would seem that a good number are needed. Apart from anything else to speak to the varied groups that consider themselves Islamic and also consider their methodologies of violence to be compatible with or even lauded by their understanding of Islam (how wrong or right it might be is a separate issue.) These movements are not currently hearing a message of peace from their leaders. Chris |
NABA wrote:Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 21 December 2014 at 11:12pm
There is no "Mennonite leader", yet Mennonites have very rarely used violence, and are pacifist based on their understanding of the Bible. Neither Christians or Muslims or Jews need "a leader" to teach them to be good and loving neighbours. The religious texts for all three of these religions teach this. |
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 22 December 2014 at 1:58am
| More than leaders they need counsellors who can teach them real message of islam which is to acquire peace by submitting will to Allah. |
Posted By: Emettman
Date Posted: 22 December 2014 at 3:37am
And where are they going to come from? Meanwhile, I agree with you on the message of Islam, which leaves me just a degree or two short of peace because I decline to submit to a message and an authority I cannot regard as authentic. That would be liable to get me killed in a few countries, and I've received a death threat or two in my own. I can live with that, in reasonable equanimity and peace. Chris. |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 22 December 2014 at 12:29pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Franklin_D._Roosevelt |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 22 December 2014 at 1:06pm
Greetings abuayisha, To be sure, there are many things to criticize about FDR... as there are about any leader... and things I would even agree with... but the thing that I was addressing is the fact that I am accustomed to leaders that are always expressing the need and the desire for peace... and how these do not seem to be the messages I hear from muslim leaders.... asalaam and blessings, CAringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 23 December 2014 at 12:41am
The Saint |
Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 23 December 2014 at 12:57am
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Let us talk about world peace and what the US is doing for it.
America Is Running the World�s Largest Terrorist Operation Experts on the Left and the Right Agree Chomsky: �Obama Is Running The Biggest Terrorist Operation That Exists� Leading liberal Noam Chomsky said yesterday: The Obama administration is dedicated to increasing terrorism. In fact, it�s doing it all over the world. Obama is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists, maybe in history: the drone assassination campaigns, which are just part of it [...] All of these operations, they are terror operations. *** People hate the country that�s just terrorizing them. That�s not a surprise. Just consider the way we react to acts of terror. That�s the way other people react to [American] acts of terror. Chomsky is right. Experts agree that indiscriminate drone strikes are war crimes (more here and here). The U.S. is not only killing people whose identity it doesn�t even know (more), but it is also killing children. And it is using the justifiably-vilified Al Qaeda tactic of killing people attending funerals of those killed � and targeting people attempting to rescue people who have been injured by � our previous strikes. Chomsky has previously extensively documented U.S. terrorism. As Wikipedia notes: Chomsky and Herman observed that terror was concentrated in the U.S. sphere of influence in the Third World, and documented terror carried out by U.S. client states in Latin America. They observed that of ten Latin American countries that had death squads, all were U.S. client states. *** They concluded that the global rise in state terror was a result of U.S. foreign policy. *** In 1991, a book edited by Alexander L. George [the Graham H. Stuart Professor of Political Science Emeritus at Stanford University] also argued that other Western powers sponsored terror in Third World countries. It concluded that the U.S. and its allies were the main supporters of terrorism throughout the world. Indeed, the U.S. has created death squads in Latin America, Iraq and Syria. The director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan � Lt. General William Odom - noted: Because the United States itself has a long record of supporting terrorists and using terrorist tactics, the slogans of today�s war on terrorism merely makes the United States look hypocritical to the rest of the world. Odom also said: By any measure the US has long used terrorism. In �78-79 the Senate was trying to pass a law against international terrorism � in every version they produced, the lawyers said the US would be in violation. (audio here). The Washington Post reported in 2010: The United States has long been an exporter of terrorism, according to a secret CIA analysis released Wednesday by the Web site WikiLeaks. The head and special agent in charge of the FBI�s Los Angeles office said that most terror attacks are committed by our CIA and FBI. Some in the American military have intentionally tried to �out-terrorize the terrorists�. As Truthout notes: Both [specialists Ethan McCord and Josh Stieber] say they saw their mission as a plan to �out-terrorize the terrorists,� in order to make the general populace more afraid of the Americans than they were of insurgent groups. In the interview with [Scott] Horton, Horton pressed Stieber: �� a fellow veteran of yours from the same battalion has said that you guys had a standard operating procedure, SOP, that said � and I guess this is a reaction to some EFP attacks on y�all�s Humvees and stuff that killed some guys � that from now on if a roadside bomb goes off, IED goes off, everyone who survives the attack get out and fire in all directions at anybody who happens to be nearby � that this was actually an order from above. Is that correct? Can you, you know, verify that? Stieber answered: �Yeah, it was an order that came from Kauzlarich himself, and it had the philosophy that, you know, as Finkel does describe in the book, that we were under pretty constant threat, and what he leaves out is the response to that threat. But the philosophy was that if each time one of these roadside bombs went off where you don�t know who set it � the way we were told to respond was to open fire on anyone in the area, with the philosophy that that would intimidate them, to be proactive in stopping people from making these bombs �� Terrorism is defined as: The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. So McCord and Stieber are correct: this constitutes terrorism by American forces in Iraq. The U.S. has been directly supporting Al Qaeda and other terrorists and providing them arms, money and logistical support in Syria, Libya, Mali, Bosnia, Chechnya, Iran, and many other countries � both before and after 9/11. And see this. Torture � which the U.S. has liberally used during the last 10 years � has long been recognized as a form of terrorism. Wikipedia notes: Worldwide, 74% of countries that used torture on an administrative basis were U.S. client states, receiving military and other support to retain power. Some Specific Examples � The CIA admits that it hired Iranians in the 1950′s to pose as Communists and stage bombings in Iran in order to turn the country against its democratically-elected prime minister. The former Italian Prime Minister, an Italian judge, and the former head of Italian counterintelligence admit that NATO, with the help of the Pentagon and CIA, carried out terror bombings in Italy and other European countries in the 1950s and blamed the communists, in order to rally people�s support for their governments in Europe in their fight against communism. Read all at: http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-is-running-the-worlds-largest-terrorist-operation/5339835 |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 23 December 2014 at 10:22am
Greetings The Saint, Will you please share with me what these are. Shukran und salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 23 December 2014 at 11:15am
I don't put much stock in what Noam Chomsky has to say. I do not see him as someone who is for God. The Obama administration is dedicated to increasing terrorism. In fact, it�s doing it all over the world. Obama is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists, maybe in history: the drone assassination campaigns, which are just part of it [...] All of these operations, they are terror operations. This may just very possibly be true. I do not see Obama as a leader that is seeking to create peace in the world. I do not hear words of peace but only of division coming from him. I believe it is his purpose to increase chaos in the world and turn opinion against the United States. He does not by any stretch of the imagination represent what previous leaders have represented. It is a jolly sham that he was awarded a Nobel peace prize. I have nothing good to say about the president that is currently leading the United States. *** Chomsky is right. Experts agree that indiscriminate drone strikes are war crimes (more here and here). The U.S. is not only killing people whose identity it doesn�t even know (more), but it is also killing children. And it is using the justifiably-vilified Al Qaeda tactic of killing people attending funerals of those killed � and targeting people attempting to rescue people who have been injured by � our previous strikes. I don't know about the truth of that. *** They concluded that the global rise in state terror was a result of U.S. foreign policy. I don't know how a statement like that can be made. I did however, just recently, listen to a dsicsussion on how when there is no strong power in the world chaos tends to rule... and the fact that the U.S. has wimped out in its duty to remain strong(i.e., has an ineffectual leader) has an effect on the world. I wish I could share the discussion. *** In 1991, a book edited by Alexander L. George [the Graham H. Stuart Professor of Political Science Emeritus at Stanford University] also argued that other Western powers sponsored terror in Third World countries. It concluded that the U.S. and its allies were the main supporters of terrorism throughout the world. What does it mean, "to sponsor terror". If it means did the U.S. and other governments armed groups and trained them to defend themselves, and these groups later turned into terror organizations.... is the U.S. responsible for what they used their training for once the initial battle was over. The terror organizations existing in the middle east are remnants of those that were armed and trained to defeat enemies that were coming against their nation. They have decided to turn those very arms and training against those that came to help them. Or they are groups influenced and armed through muslim nations(Iran, Turkey, e.g.), and through Russia... for purposes of their own. I think defining the battles is very difficult and the finger can not be pointed in one direction only. Indeed, the U.S. has created death squads in Latin America, Iraq and Syria. Can you give me a citation for this statement so I can research it further. Thanks. The director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan � Lt. General William Odom - noted: Because the United States itself has a long record of supporting terrorists and using terrorist tactics, the slogans of today�s war on terrorism merely makes the United States look hypocritical to the rest of the world. I can see the truth in that. The United States had to work with what was available, and I can see that it is guilty of supporting terrorist tactics among the people in these countries. I don't suppose they ever considered that those same tactics would one day be turned on them... or they felt there were no other options in the ensuing battles. I don't believe it is a thing which the United States brought to these countries... I believe it was the way of doing battle that already existed and outside nations merely supplied the weapons and better training. The very first(current era anyway... the kamikaze's of Japan came even before) to use terror tactics were the Nazi's when they flew blimps over London to bomb the city, not caring that they were killing innocents. The U.S. employed the tactic when it decided to drop the a-bomb to compel the surrender of Japan. Since that time I have felt that the U.S. abandoned its own use of such tactics, seeing the wrongness of it. Let's face it... it was Bashar al Assad that decided it was ok to bomb his own cities, reducing them to rubble and killing innocents. The U.S. did not support that. Odom also said: By any measure the US has long used terrorism. In �78-79 the Senate was trying to pass a law against international terrorism � in every version they produced, the lawyers said the US would be in violation. (audio here). I wish the audio were working so that I could listen. The Washington Post reported in 2010: The United States has long been an exporter of terrorism, according to a secret CIA analysis released Wednesday by the Web site WikiLeaks. The head and special agent in charge of the FBI�s Los Angeles office said that most terror attacks are committed by our CIA and FBI. I would like to know what attacks they are labeling 'attacks committed by the CIA and FBI'. Some in the American military have intentionally tried to �out-terrorize the terrorists�. As Truthout notes: Both [specialists Ethan McCord and Josh Stieber] say they saw their mission as a plan to �out-terrorize the terrorists,� in order to make the general populace more afraid of the Americans than they were of insurgent groups. In the interview with [Scott] Horton, Horton pressed Stieber: �� a fellow veteran of yours from the same battalion has said that you guys had a standard operating procedure, SOP, that said � and I guess this is a reaction to some EFP attacks on y�all�s Humvees and stuff that killed some guys � that from now on if a roadside bomb goes off, IED goes off, everyone who survives the attack get out and fire in all directions at anybody who happens to be nearby � that this was actually an order from above. Is that correct? Can you, you know, verify that? Stieber answered: �Yeah, it was an order that came from Kauzlarich himself, and it had the philosophy that, you know, as Finkel does describe in the book, that we were under pretty constant threat, and what he leaves out is the response to that threat. But the philosophy was that if each time one of these roadside bombs went off where you don�t know who set it � the way we were told to respond was to open fire on anyone in the area, with the philosophy that that would intimidate them, to be proactive in stopping people from making these bombs �� Terrorism is defined as: The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. So McCord and Stieber are correct: this constitutes terrorism by American forces in Iraq. I don't know what to say to these statements other than that they do make me ask; When you are dealing with people with a terrorist mentality, when that is all the people understand, is there another way to fight? The CIA admits that it hired Iranians in the 1950′s to pose as Communists and stage bombings in Iran in order to turn the country against its democratically-elected prime minister. I agree in the wrongness of this, and it may very well be that the U.S. will soon be reaping the consequences of such actions. The great uncertainty is in whether or not they are truly guilty, or if propoganda has merely been able to convince others of their guilt. but it is said... what goes around, comes around... and if the CIA has been using reprehensible tactics then it is bound to come back and bite in the behind. The former Italian Prime Minister, an Italian judge, and the former head of Italian counterintelligence admit that NATO, with the help of the Pentagon and CIA, carried out terror bombings in Italy and other European countries in the 1950s and blamed the communists, in order to rally people�s support for their governments in Europe in their fight against communism. Again, I see the wrongness in this, and believe that yes such things will come back to bite you. Read all at: http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-is-running-the-worlds-largest-terrorist-operation/5339835 Thanks for sharing. The ways of war are never right or good. All that you shared however, does not address whether or not muslim leaders... political and otherwise... ever seek to spread a message for peace among the people... or are they guilty of the devices you describe above... using tactics to stir people in favor of war. Though I have seen governments made to act in the ways of war... their words have never stopped speaking of the desire and need for peace. I do not hear words teaching me to think of others as enemies, but rather words of how we can turn to peace... how we can become people of peace, getting along with each other. I do not hear words that encourage me to go out and seek my enemies. I hear words that encourage me to find ways to make friends. asalaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: kingskid
Date Posted: 23 December 2014 at 2:19pm
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Greetings Saint. You begin your premise by stating, "America Is Running the World�s Largest Terrorist Operation
Experts on the Left and the Right Agree..." I find a number of problems with your premise. First of all, you state that experts on the Left and the Right agree, but you do not provide any conservative viewpoint at all. Just because someone may have worked for a Bush or Reagan administration doesn't mean that individual was a conservative. Liberals have insinuated themselves in the fabric of the American society at every level, so quoting someone who worked for a Republican administration means nothing, let alone offers an expert opinion from someone on the Right. Second, surely you can do better than to cite the leftist radical, Noam Chomsky, and to obtain all your research from the "Wiki" cites! BTW, who is "Herman", another left-wing radical? Also, you mentioned a book edited by Alexander L. George, but do not mention who the author is or what is the name of the book. What kind of research is that and how can anyone investigate the matter without such info? And you cite the Washington Post, another media shill for the Left! You make no distinction between war and terrorism in your condemnation of the U.S. Do you really think any of the ME countries is innocent in regards to the terrorism being committed all around the world in the name of Islam? Terrorism is the coward's way of waging war without declaring war. It is so much easier to kill innocent civilians than it is to engage an enemy head on. You've heard the expression, "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Take it to heart, Saint, because there is demonic activity going on in the form of murder, rape, kidnappings, and beheadings by Muslim terrorists all over the world, and trying to deflect atttention away from Islamic terror by fingering the U.S. just doesn't cut it. Your quoting truthout.org is just more left-wing garbage. Here is an assessment of that organization by http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article2596.html: One of the Web sites that has morphed itself into a veritable Trojan horse arm of the extreme leftist media is http://www.truthout.org - Truthout.org � an anti-Bush cyber landfill that masquerades as a bastion of news credibility. Not only does Truthout.org post exclusively pro-Democrat, Bush-hating articles and editorials � they also boycott the views and opinions of both conservative Republicans and Libertarians. While claiming to represent America and purportedly seeking to �get the truth out,� Truthout.org conceals who they really are: A cornucopia of anti-American, anti-Semitic, pro-Palestine sedition. Its primary purpose: dumping extreme, Far Left rhetoric into its own little private black hole on the Internet � to anyone and everyone desperate enough to read its acerbic pontifications..." Third, I am not an apologist for war, but recognize that there is indeed a "time for peace and a time for war...". However, there is a vast difference between war and terrorism. In war, unintentional consequences happen, such as the mistaken killing of civilians. But the killing of innocent victims in terrorism is the goal and not an unintentional mishap. There is absolutely no justification for terrorism, regardless of how one may try to deflect, spin or lie in trying to divert attention away from Islamic atrocities. And as for torture, if water-boarding a terrorist causes such fear that he spills his guts on his or other terrorist activities, then call it what you will, but do it and get the information needed to save innocent lives! You wrote: "The U.S. has been directly supporting Al Qaeda and other terrorists and providing them arms, money and logistical support in Syria, Libya, Mali, Bosnia, Chechnya, Iran, and many other countries � both before and after 9/11. And see this." Prove it. What are your credible sources, Saint? All told, your premise that the U.S is running the world's largest terrorist operation is simply ludicrous and just more deflection from the real terrorist operation running under the banner of Islam all around the world. ------------- kingskid |
Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 24 December 2014 at 2:48am
Share with you what, CH? |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 24 December 2014 at 10:39am
Greetings The Saint, the words of 'blessings and peace' 'the supplications for blessings and peace for all' which you hear in the mosque. What do muslims hear that encourages peace in their hearts toward their fellow mankind? Shukran and salaam, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 25 December 2014 at 2:53am
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Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 26 December 2014 at 2:03am
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I don't put much stock in what Noam Chomsky has to say. I do not see him as someone who is for God.
I do not see him as someone who talks religion, either. But he is definitely someone who does not toe the official line. Is that what bothers you? This may just very possibly be true. I do not see Obama as a leader that is seeking to create peace in the world. I do not hear words of peace but only of division coming from him. I believe it is his purpose to increase chaos in the world and turn opinion against the United States. He does not by any stretch of the imagination represent what previous leaders have represented. It is a jolly sham that he was awarded a Nobel peace prize. I have nothing good to say about the president that is currently leading the United States. Wellll..............he is no better no worse than George Bush. I don't know about the truth of that. You must find out the truth. You owe it to yourself to know the truth. What does it mean, "to sponsor terror". If it means did the U.S. and other governments armed groups and trained them to defend themselves, and these groups later turned into terror organizations.... is the U.S. responsible for what they used their training for once the initial battle was over. The terror organizations existing in the middle east are remnants of those that were armed and trained to defeat enemies that were coming against their nation. They have decided to turn those very arms and training against those that came to help them. Or they are groups influenced and armed through muslim nations(Iran, Turkey, e.g.), and through Russia... for purposes of their own. I think defining the battles is very difficult and the finger can not be pointed in one direction only. I am surprised at your answer. It is rather unscrupulous. Isn't rather mercenary for a responsible nation like the US to train and arm people and then to abandon them regardless of the fact that, that very training and arms may be used against anyone? Indeed, the U.S. has created death squads in Latin America, Iraq and Syria. Can you give me a citation for this statement so I can research it further. Thanks. I will try to. I did give the link of the story. The U.S. employed the tactic when it decided to drop the a-bomb to compel the surrender of Japan. Since that time I have felt that the U.S. abandoned its own use of such tactics, seeing the wrongness of it. Let's face it... it was Bashar al Assad that decided it was ok to bomb his own cities, reducing them to rubble and killing innocents. The U.S. did not support that. US is the only nation on earth which used an A-bomb against civilian targets and killed more than 300000 people. Which law or book of justice could rationalise such horrendous barbarity? We are only told by captive media that Bashar Al Assad tried to bomb his own people. The fact, that he was to be toppled by the US and its allies, as a part of a grand plan to control the ME, but because all their overt and covert efforts failed, resulted in a stalemate. It was then a civil war was ignited by the western powers. I would like to know what attacks they are labeling 'attacks committed by the CIA and FBI'. I wish that audio link worked. In any case let us both search the web for such audio evidence. I don't know what to say to these statements other than that they do make me ask; When you are dealing with people with a terrorist mentality, when that is all the people understand, is there another way to fight? To answer terrorism by terrorism would suggest a pitiable and shameless admission of intellectual and moral bankruptcy. And that is exactly what has happened with the US. Thanks for sharing. The ways of war are never right or good. You are welcome. All that you shared however, does not address whether or not muslim leaders... political and otherwise... ever seek to spread a message for peace among the people... Muslims do not have a pope who would annually deliver a message from the Vatican. But I do know that religious leaders do pray for peace and harmony on occasions of two Eids. This happens all over the world. or are they guilty of the devices you describe above... using tactics to stir people in favor of war. Only dictators who remain in power supported by imperial colonialists and recently mostly by the US are indifferent to peace. Elected and popular leaders are as much for peace as any other leader. Though I have seen governments made to act in the ways of war... their words have never stopped speaking of the desire and need for peace. I do not hear words teaching me to think of others as enemies, but rather words of how we can turn to peace... how we can become people of peace, getting along with each other. I do not hear words that encourage me to go out and seek my enemies. I hear words that encourage me to find ways to make friends. Is that not hypocrisy, much as is practiced by the US? Lip service is hardly something the citizens of a country would like to hear. Btw, you may want to say Assalaamualaikum instead of that shortened version. asalaam, Caringheart |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 26 December 2014 at 4:43pm
Greetings The Saint, Abandoned ?? I'm sorry but I had to snort-laugh at that... more like thrown out with very little appreciation of the attempts at assistance that were given. asalaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 26 December 2014 at 4:48pm
Agreed, no one could... that was the point I was making.
Greetings The Saint, Are you kidding me? It is not possible that you have not seen how Assad has reduced the cities in Syria to rubble... attacks on his own people and their livelihoods... to keep them in their place... to keep them from having a voice for change. asalaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 26 December 2014 at 5:19pm
Greetings The Saint, peace and harmony in what way? I don't hear words of peace coming from Khamenei. Do you consider the rulership of Iran to be dictatorship, or imperial power?
I don't know if it can be called hypocrisy... leaders have a duty to protect and serve the best interests of their country. They do not have enviable decisions to make. I wonder if you are aware of how much restraint the former president of the United States, John F. Kennedy, used when the borders of the U.S. were being threatened with nuclear attack by Russia in 1962. Even then the people were fearful of Communism, they were not turned against Russians. Never have the people of the nation been deliberately and sytematically turned against the people of another nation. Even after war with Germany, Germans were taken into the U.S. Even during these times of tension with Iran, the leaders of the nation do not seek to turn the people of the nation against Iranians. The people's hearts are not filled with hatred for another nation. The politics belong to the hands of the politicians... to the political leaders. The people are always turned to ways of peace. Thanks for the advising about saying Assalaamualaikum.  I have used asalaam for a long time now without unwelcome. I have trouble with the language and I find it is what my fingers and my mind can handle without difficulty. Assalaamualaikum, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 27 December 2014 at 3:02am
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Experts on the Left and the Right Agree..."
I find a number of problems with your premise. Why am I not surprised! First of all, you state that experts on the Left and the Right agree, but you do not provide any conservative viewpoint at all. Errr....I did not write the article. But if you like I will convey your thoughts to the writer. Just because someone may have worked for a Bush or Reagan administration doesn't mean that individual was a conservative. I am not saying. Liberals have insinuated themselves in the fabric of the American society at every level, so quoting someone who worked for a Republican administration means nothing, let alone offers an expert opinion from someone on the Right. Your opinion. As good or as bad as the one presented in the article. Second, surely you can do better than to cite the leftist radical, Noam Chomsky, and to obtain all your research from the "Wiki" cites! Sure, I can do better. I am just starting. And you also do not like Chomsky? How predictable! BTW, who is "Herman", another left-wing radical? Also, you mentioned a book edited by Alexander L. George, but do not mention who the author is or what is the name of the book. What kind of research is that and how can anyone investigate the matter without such info? And you cite the Washington Post, another media shill for the Left! LOL, this is not my research. But I shall definitely try to...........wait why don't you post your comments on the site where I got this from? You make no distinction between war and terrorism in your condemnation of the U.S. Both are extremely violent and while one uses superior military force the other employs stealth. The end results are often the same. Also what is terrorism according to you? Do you really think any of the ME countries is innocent in regards to the terrorism being committed all around the world in the name of Islam? Anyone can climb a tall building and shout to make claims that he/she is so and so. How much weight should be given to such 'heroes'. If anyone has a speck of sense, they would study Islam and then consider in that light the actions of people claiming to be Islamic they would know the true identity of these people. But, of course, it is easier to criticize and condemn! Most ME countries are puppets of the west, selling a barrel of oil for a fancy Coke! Golden Monkeys really consumed by greed for power. More important question is what is terrorism according to you? And what do you know about the alleged perpetrators. I would also like to know what are your views on issues like state torture and 'entertainments' like waterboarding? Terrorism is the coward's way of waging war without declaring war. Yeah, bombing children and women and old people from the safety of air is very brave, huh? It is so much easier to kill innocent civilians than it is to engage an enemy head on. I just said that! You've heard the expression, "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." I read it before I posted that piece. Take it to heart, Saint, because there is demonic activity going on in the form of murder, rape, kidnappings, and beheadings by Muslim terrorists all over the world, and trying to deflect atttention away from Islamic terror by fingering the U.S. just doesn't cut it. If there is anyone in denial it is you kingkid. Because you are denying any knowledge of white-collar, state sponsored terrorism. What do you call a country that glorifies wars and violence in the name of peace. One that's been at war every year in its history against one or more adversaries. It has the highest homicide rate of all western nations and a passion for owning guns, yet the two seem oddly unconnected. Violent films are some of its most popular, and similar video games crowd out the simpler, more innocent street play of generations earlier. Prescription and illicit drug use is out of control as well when tobacco, alcohol and other legal ones are included. It get's worse. It's society is called a "rape culture" with data showing: -- one-fourth of its adult women victims of forcible rape sometime in their lives, often by someone they know, including family members; -- one-third of them are victims of sexual abuse by a husband or boyfriend; -- 30% of people in the country say they know a woman who's been physically abused by her husband or boyfriend in the past year; -- one in four of its women report being sexually molested in childhood, usually repeatedly over extended periods by a family member or other close relative; -- its women overall experience extreme levels of violence; an astonishing 75% of them are victims of some form of it in their lifetimes; --domestic violence is their leading cause of injury and second leading cause of death; -- statistically, homes are their most dangerous place if men are in them as millions experience battering by husbands, male partners or fathers; -- for most women with children, there's no escape for lack of means and because male assailants pursue them causing greater harm; -- adding further injury, its society is often unsupportive; it affords women second class status, privileges and redress when they're abused so many suffer in silence fearing coming forward may cause more harm than help; -- its children are abused as well; millions suffer serious neglect, physical mistreatment and/or sexual abuse; many get relief only through escape to dangerous streets; they end up alone, more vulnerable and at greater danger away than at home where there, too, families act more like strangers or predators forcing young kids to flee in the first place. What country is it where things like these are normal and commonplace; where peace, tranquility and safety are illusions; where they're crowded out by foreign wars and violence at home in communities, neighborhoods, schools, throughout the media and in core families. What kind of country glorifies mass killing, assaults and abuse; one that looks down on pacifist non-violence as sissy or unpatriotic, yet claims to be peace loving. It's not in the third world, under dictatorship or controlled by religious extremists. It's the "land of the free and home of the brave, America the Beautiful" where human rights, civil liberties, common dignity and personal safety are more illusion than fact. Your quoting truthout.org is just more left-wing garbage. Here is an assessment of that organization by http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article2596.html: One of the Web sites that has morphed itself into a veritable Trojan horse arm of the extreme leftist media is Truthout.org � an anti-Bush cyber landfill that masquerades as a bastion of news credibility. Not only does Truthout.org post exclusively pro-Democrat, Bush-hating articles and editorials � they also boycott the views and opinions of both conservative Republicans and Libertarians. One set of opinions against another? Instead of directly refuting facts and figures provided you are just trying to discredit a source by weak unsupported denials. While claiming to represent America and purportedly seeking to �get the truth out,� Truthout.org conceals who they really are: A cornucopia of anti-American, anti-Semitic, pro-Palestine sedition. Its primary purpose: dumping extreme, Far Left rhetoric into its own little private black hole on the Internet � to anyone and everyone desperate enough to read its acerbic pontifications..." Sounds like painful grouching. Making it all seem like politics. Weak! Very, very weak! Third, I am not an apologist for war, but recognize that there is indeed a "time for peace and a time for war...". However, there is a vast difference between war and terrorism. In war, unintentional consequences happen, such as the mistaken killing of civilians. But the killing of innocent victims in terrorism is the goal and not an unintentional mishap. I agree. By definition, that is. But ideas and concepts are being redefined by the day. From regrets for civilian killings the term, collateral damage was shamelessly introduced and then came the drones. Robots that are not even expected to have feelings. They are blind killing machines programmed to just kill. There is absolutely no justification for terrorism, regardless of how one may try to deflect, spin or lie in trying to divert attention away from Islamic atrocities. Certainly not! But if there is no justification for one kind of terrorism then by the same book legal terrorism, war, too, has no justifcation. Which is fought for so called glorious goals, but ends-up killing civilians and non-combatants too, and recently, as in the case of war on Gaza, killing civilians was an obvious goal. Just because soldiers wear uniforms and have the sanction of the state they do not have the license to kill with freedom and extreme prejudice. Also just because they have superior arms and legal and bodily protection they do not become heroes. But I am still not justifying terrorism of any kind. I think you should realise and all who think and act like you that terrorists do not wear uniforms. They are faceless, overt and covert entities, slaves to the causes they are fighting for. And many of them wear ties and adorn high seats of power. And as for torture, if water-boarding a terrorist causes such fear that he spills his guts on his or other terrorist activities, then call it what you will, but do it and get the information needed to save innocent lives! In the end, if we fail to define the real terrorists and reasons for discontent and rebellion, condone legal torture, introspect, and until we ensure justice for the oppressed both..........nay all types of terrorism and senseless violence shall continue unabated. |
Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 27 December 2014 at 4:55am
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Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 27 December 2014 at 5:06am
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Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 27 December 2014 at 5:32am
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peace and harmony in what way?
I don't hear words of peace coming from Khamenei. Do you consider the rulership of Iran to be dictatorship, or imperial power? Who do you hear words of peace from? Israel...........LOL! I don't know if it can be called hypocrisy... leaders have a duty to protect and serve the best interests of their country. They do not have enviable decisions to make. That applies to all leaders. I wonder if you are aware of how much restraint the former president of the United States, John F. Kennedy, used when the borders of the U.S. were being threatened with nuclear attack by Russia in 1962. Even then the people were fearful of Communism, they were not turned against Russians. I can see clearly that you are not very sound on history of your own country. "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist party?" In the 1950s, thousands of Americans who toiled in the government, served in the army, worked in the movie industry, or came from various walks of life had to answer that question before a congressional panel. SENATOR JOSEPH MCCARTHY rose to national prominence by initiating a probe to ferret out communists holding prominent positions. During his investigations, safeguards promised by the Constitution were trampled. Why were so many held in thrall to the Wisconsin lawmaker? Why was an environment that some likened to the SALEM WITCH TRIALS tolerated? Never have the people of the nation been deliberately and sytematically turned against the people of another nation. Even after war with Germany, Germans were taken into the U.S. On February 20, 1950, McCarthy addressed the Senate and made a list of dubious claims against suspected communists. He cited 81 cases that day. He skipped several numbers, and for some cases repeated the same flimsy information. He proved nothing, but the Senate called for a full investigation. McCarthy was in the national spotlight. Staying in the headlines was a full-time job. After accusing low-level officials, McCarthy went for the big guns, even questioning the loyalty of DEAN ACHESON and George Marshall. Some Republicans in the Senate were aghast and disavowed McCarthy. Even during these times of tension with Iran, the leaders of the nation do not seek to turn the people of the nation against Iranians. The people's hearts are not filled with hatred for another nation. The politics belong to the hands of the politicians... to the political leaders. The people are always turned to ways of peace. I can see clearly that you are not very sound on history of your own country. How much poison has been been spewed by the US leadership against Iran, at the height of the atomic spate? Did you not the hostility towards Iran instigated by Israel? Thanks for the advising about saying Assalaamualaikum. Smile I have used asalaam for a long time now without unwelcome. I have trouble with the language and I find it is what my fingers and my mind can handle without difficulty. But asalaam does not convey the greeting properly. Thanks for accepting my advice. Assalaamualaikum does. |
Posted By: kingskid
Date Posted: 27 December 2014 at 8:27am
Greetings Saint! BTW, it is curious to me why you use "Saint" as your tag. In the Bible, "saint" refers to the followers of Yeshua, you know, Christians. Ah, well, maybe you have aspirations!  I will refer to your most titillating comments: Saint: Anyone can climb a tall building and shout to make claims that he/she is so and so. How much weight should be given to such 'heroes'. If anyone has a speck of sense, they would study Islam and then consider in that light the actions of people claiming to be Islamic they would know the true identity of these people. But, of course, it is easier to criticize and condemn! Now you are really sounding like an apologist of the terrorists! Why not just man up and stay consistent with distancing yourself from the Muslims committing horrendous acts of violence all around the world, instead of vacillating with condemnation of them one minute, then deflection of their actions the next minute! Most ME countries are puppets of the west, selling a barrel of oil for a fancy Coke! Golden Monkeys really consumed by greed for power. Now that is a joke! OPEC has held the world hostage for more than 40 years with its cartel and now, with oil flowing abundantly from other sources (including the U.S.), their greed has caught up with them. "Ye shall reap what ye sow"! Puppets of the west? That doesn't say much about the character of ME leaders now does it? Greed, dear Saint, is the fuel that drives evil men, surely you get that! LOL, this is not my research. But I shall definitely try to...........wait why don't you post your comments on the site where I got this from? If you post info from another site and do not provide proper attribution, you lose credibility for any premise you are attempting to make. Also what is terrorism according to you? Killing innocent people who have made no offensive action against their killers. You know, like a soldier walking down the street and minding his own business....a woman tending her garden....Christians, simply because they are Christians.....office workers going about their daily routines in a NYC skyscraper....young Christian girls in Nigeria and women kidnapped to satisfy the lust-driven hordes of young jihadists, who are then raped and/or brutally beheaded when they refuse to "marry" their captors. The world awaits peace-loving Muslims who will see it as their duty to hunt down the terrorists who have been inflamed by the teachings of Muhammad to the point where they commit truly inhuman atrocities against innocent people. When are sane imams going to join forces with their brother imams to put an end to the slaughter, Saint? When? This is a Muslim problem and demands a Muslim solution! The world awaits! I would also like to know what are your views on issues like state torture and 'entertainments' like waterboarding? I already gave my unequivocal response about waterboarding. If it is successful in eliciting information from a terrorist on either his or other terrorist activity, do it! And apparently, it has been successful. Personally, I would chose acid rock music 24/7 and a few other tactics that I will keep to myself. Of course, if a Muslim, who did not believe in the war commands of Muhammad but believed in carrying out the dictates of shariah, were to deal with the terrorists, they would behead them. A head for a head no? If there is anyone in denial it is you kingkid. Because you are denying any knowledge of white-collar, state sponsored terrorism. There you go again, Saint, trying to deflect attention away from the demonic forces called terrorists. Guess I can't blame you; they sure are not showing Islam as being a religion of "peace" now are they? Your diatribe against America is just more deflection. Obviously, you are not aware of the statistics showing that where our Second Amendment is vigorously upheld, the crime rate has gone down, not up. That's not surprising since a criminal has no way of knowing if someone he wants to rob or harm is carrying a gun or not. And those who are able to "open carry", well, a criminal will obviously think twice. As to crime, that is an unfortunate side effect of living in freedom. People can chose to do good or to do evil, and actually they do so whether they live under freedom or under oppression and compulsion like countries under shariah. For me, I'll take freedom any day rather than live like a fearful slave under shariah. BTW, women certainly do not fare well under shariah, so before you start throwing more stones while living in a glass house, you need to take your blinders off: http://www.clarionproject.org/understanding-islamism/womens-rights-under-sharia http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2005/08/top_ten_reasons_why_sharia_is.html In the end, if we fail to define the real terrorists and reasons for discontent and rebellion, condone legal torture, introspect, and until we ensure justice for the oppressed both..........nay all types of terrorism and senseless violence shall continue unabated. You said if "we fail to define real terrorists and reasons for discontent and rebellion" by whose terms and definitions should this be done? Ah, there's the rub, no? Res ipsa loquitur, Saint. ------------- kingskid |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 27 December 2014 at 3:25pm
Greetings The Saint, "the latter fought the American's war for them" ? that seems like twisted thinking... who does the country belong to... the Afghans... so how do you think this was 'America's war'? a collaborative effort, yes... beneficial to both parties, yes... but 'America's war'? Hardly. America saved Afghanistan from falling to Russian, communist, control. America has not sought to turn Afghanistan into an American controlled country, as the Russians would have done. If Afghanistan would have fallen to the Russians, Afghanistan would have ceased to exist as its own nation, and would have become part of the USSR. The U.S. helped to prevent this outcome. and yes, when wars are fought in other lands, many things get left behind because of the exorbitant costs of transporting them back. Remember Russians left many things behind too. Other nations are not responsible for what nations do with those left behind things. There is always the hope that the war is ended, and that bonds have been formed and lessons learned. Perhaps there is a belief that those things will not be used as a threat, but only kept for defense. asalaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 27 December 2014 at 3:42pm
Greetings The Saint, I have seen the pictures... Syria, once so beautiful... so built up... destroyed to rubble... you can't argue with that... with what Assad did to his own country and people. It made my heart ache and my eyes shed so many tears for the people every time I saw it... when I see it now.
from my vantage point... I see that, as an answer to the many that were praying for peaceful resolution... Russia, contrary to what you assert about being a threat... brokered a deal with Assad to remove chemical weapons, thus resolving the conflict between the west and Assad. Assad was fighting, yes, but to retain his control... to retain his position and his power. The Syrian people came out with quiet voice to seek change and in response, like with any tyrant and oppressor, they were retaliated against with lethal force to subdue them back into their places of silence. asalaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 27 December 2014 at 4:02pm
Greetings The Saint, Correct... as I said... "the people were fearful of Communism" the country was set up as a republic, and a republic they wish it to remain. The issue is, as it should be... with communism... not with Russia or with Russians.
The leadership and policies of Iran are of course always going to be discussed.. those are matters of political concern... but the people and the country of Iran are not vilified as a whole, to the people. The things which might pose a threat to other nations are quite obviously topic of discussion, but we do not have religious, or other, leaders leading the people to turn against the people of another nation. Iranians are still welcomed into the country and are expected to be treated with equality. How much are Christians or Americans welcomed into Iran? How much treated with equality? How much worse for Jew? No one is calling Iran, 'that great satan', though the possibility of threat to the world is greatly apparent... no one is painting Iranians as those evil islamist people, or saying they must be wiped off the map. This is the difference between people seeking peace, and leaders that stir people to war. Assalaamualaikum, and asalaam... I wish to convey message of peace, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |