Charlie Hebdo
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Politics
Forum Name: Current Events
Forum Description: Current Events
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32876
Printed Date: 27 November 2024 at 7:59pm
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Topic: Charlie Hebdo
Posted By: Caringheart
Subject: Charlie Hebdo
Date Posted: 16 January 2015 at 3:18pm
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I am pleased today, to see peaceful muslim marches in protest of Charlie Hebdo magazine. Now that is a way that is acceptable and may have some effect. It is the peacemakers in history that have been able to enact large scale change in the culture... i.e., Martin Luther King, Jr., Ghandi In a democracy there are
civilized ways to fight back. In free countries we enact campaigns of
boycott to affect and correct the culture. Resorting to violence is the
result of the teaching of disordered thinking, in my book. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Replies:
Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 17 January 2015 at 6:46pm
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A great post, Caringheart. This piece of trash should be boycotted and protested against peacefully. Ignoring it is also a good idea. There will always be a lowest common denominator in every society that seeks such trash out and enjoys it, but I think most people have been ignoring it before these shootings and it will lose its hype when we continue to ignore it. Murderous shootings and other killings and similar acts shows only that below the intellectual midgets who draw these cartoons, there is even a lower level of losers who not only draw st**id pictures but also go out and murder people. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 17 January 2015 at 8:31pm
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Hi TG, I posted a very similar reply to you yesterday, on the thread, Je suis Charlie, but it has been delayed, as usual.  ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: jihad.info
Date Posted: 18 January 2015 at 4:03am
| I could not agree more with your rationalized approach. |
Posted By: kingskid
Date Posted: 18 January 2015 at 8:15am
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TG12345 wrote: There will always be a lowest common denominator in every society that
seeks such trash out and enjoys it, but I think most people have been
ignoring it before these shootings and it will lose its hype when we
continue to ignore it. Greetings TG. "One man's meat is another man's poison." Lowest common denominator in every society? Political and religious humor has been going on forever. Would you be in favor of shutting down free expression because it offends your personal sensibilities and convictions? I think you know where that leads......I see the French cartoons of Muhammad in a different light: as backlash towards Quranic teaching on war and the killing of infidels that the barbaric murderers take to heart. The more true peace-loving Muslims publicly denounce, by word and action, the horrific actions of the bloodthirsty jihadists, the more the world will take notice of them, and not the barbaric hordes running amok in various parts of the world. The question does remain, however, what to do about those troublesome "killing" verses in the Quran...  ------------- kingskid |
Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 18 January 2015 at 3:34pm
Greetings, kingskid. Are you saying you are in favour of unconditional "free expression"? Really? Would you be OK with a newspaper publishing cartoons of Jews being portrayed as hook-nosed greedy bankers and black people being portrayed as drug dealing pimps or monkeys? Or Mexicans being cockroaches who cross over the border to steal white people's jobs? Why or why not? There are very violent verses in the Quran, as there are very violent verses in the Bible. Read about the genocides being perpetrated by Moses and Joshua if you don't believe me. That doesn't make either Islam or Christianity or Judaism violent religions. In the Bible, the violence was only for a certain time and place, and in Islam it is only allowed in self-defence. Many Muslims have denounced the actions of "Muslim" extremists, just as many Christians (myself included) protested when "Christian" president George Bush invaded Iraq, and just as many Jews protest when Israel commits crimes against Palestinians. |
kingskid wrote:Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 18 January 2015 at 3:37pm
| Religion should not be a special case. People should have the right to say disparaging things about religion. Just as those pushing their particular brand of religion should have the right to do so without fear of being silenced. Provided no laws are broken this is what free and open democratic societies are all about. They are two-way streets. The alternative is to live in controlled societies where only those in absolute power dictate what you can and can't say. Like the former Soviet Union or the present day Saudi Arabia. Both one-way streets. |
Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 18 January 2015 at 3:39pm
Greetings, Carinheart. LOL yeah the posts often are delayed. At least we are allowed to post, though. I have very rarely had anything I wrote not put up, and I appreciate the admin for that. |
Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 18 January 2015 at 3:41pm
I don't think it's a good idea to go around intentionally insulting people, just like I don't think that neo-nazi caricatures of black people and Mexicans and Jews should be displayed in newspapers, even if it may cause some to have a 'chuckle'. |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 18 January 2015 at 3:52pm
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"I don't think it's a good idea to go around intentionally insulting people, just like I don't think that neo-nazi caricatures of black people and Mexicans and Jews should be displayed in newspapers, even if it may cause some to have a 'chuckle'." To some, other peoples' religious beliefs can be perceived as insulting because they conflict with their own beliefs. But in free and open societies they have the right to extol their own particular religion. Of course, this doesn't mean that people should be encouraged to denigrate other people's religions. Basic human politeness isn't reliant on any particular belief system. |
Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 18 January 2015 at 4:06pm
I understand what you are saying. Christianity has components that are insulting to Judaism and paganism, Judaism and Christianity have components that are insulting to paganism, Islam has components that are insulting to all of three previously mentioned. I don't think though that either of these religions teaches their adherents to draw st**id cartoons mocking the beliefs of others. The existence of non-whites, as equal citizens especially, is an insult to a very small number of white people, though in the past they were not such a minority. There are also black racists and Jewish racists and Hispanic racists who believe that other races are inferior to them. That still doesn't mean we should be propagating racist beliefs, and I would not be offended if it was (and I think it actually is) prohibited for newspaper to publish racist cartoons. Yet when it comes to religion, some want it to be OK. |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 18 January 2015 at 4:12pm
In democratic and free societies, provided you keep within the law, you should be able to express yourself openly. If you are not happy with the laws, democracy allows you to challenge them at the ballot box. In dictatorships, you don't have this right. |
Posted By: kingskid
Date Posted: 18 January 2015 at 5:38pm
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Greetings back at you, TG! I agree with the freedom of speech expressed in the First Amendment to our U.S. Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free expression thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." [emphasis added] That Amendment pertains to restrictions on Congress; the media, businesses, academia, individual behavior, etc. all are, or at least have been, self-regulated on freedom of speech and press issues. Of course, in recent years with the pervasive socialist influence permeating through all aspects of American society, so-called "hate speech" issues have been raised. The problem with that is at least two-fold: what is hate speech to one is not to another (the meat/poison analogy), and where does one draw the line with something that is so subjective? You can see where that leads: to totalitarianism. It is a slippery slope to start putting subjective restrictions on freedom. In a free society, freedom means that some people will be offended at one thing or another. For instance, I am offended by pornography, but the answer for my discomfiture would not be to ban everything that I find personally offensive. I simply shun whatever I find offensive. The "genocides" in the Bible and in the Quran? Well, I am not concerned with what took place in the past, especially that which was commanded by God, but I am greatly concerned about what is happening today! Are Jews or Christians committing rape, kidnappings, beheadings, and "ethnic cleansing" in the name of their religion? Of course not; it is only the demonic and bloodthirsty jihadists who are committing all these crimes in the name of their religion, Islam. That is why Muslims who eschew the actions of the barbarian jihadists, who are acting out the killing verses in the Quran and advocating for Shariah, need to be heard and seen in great numbers. Otherwise, peace-loving Muslims will be painted with the same broad brush as the jihadists. (I do wonder, though, do peaceable Muslims shun the jihadists but embrace Shariah, and if so, how do they reconcile the dissonance between peace and violence?) TG, I don't recall George Bush ever declaring any of his wartime actions as being done in the name of Christianity. With the jihadists, they make no claim to be conducting their barbaric crimes in any name other than allah! ------------- kingskid |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 19 January 2015 at 12:09pm
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as much as possible live peaecably with all men... vengeance is mine saith the Lord... Romans 12 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. Yshwe showed us true strength ... in turning the other cheek 15 Rejoice with them that rejoice, and weep with them that weep. I find myself often asking myself, do muslims weep for those of the non-muslims when they are killed in wars... when they see those parents weeping over the deaths of their loved ones... and when they are killed unjustly... have they wept for those that are being killed by ISIS the way I have wept over the killing that has taken place in Syria when Assad was bombing the people... the way I have wept over the killing of muslims as well as all others.... the way I weep whenever I see death and destruction being perpetrated by humans against one another.... asalaam, Caringheart aside note: I wish for one muslim to show me any thing which they can object to that Paul taught... to show me where it is not a good teaching. Muhammad even took this same teaching in the qur'an of not repaying evil with evil... to make a friend of an enemy. (Surah 41:34) ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 20 January 2015 at 11:19am
It's better than killing people, for sure, but IMHO it still makes Muslims look like a bunch of whiney cry-babies. Seriously, you're marching in the streets because of a few silly cartoons? Who does that, aside from Muslims? Honestly, just get over it! But you're right about one thing: all the protests are certainly having an effect. They are giving the magazine, and its cartoons, far more publicity and attention than it deserves. Instead of a few thousand copies, the latest edition is selling millions. So congratulations. ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 January 2015 at 11:34am
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Hi Ron, I, with the muslims, would like to see these kinds of rag publications done away with, but it must be accomplished by enough people coming together to raise the awareness of how inappropriate and unappreciated they are... and by encouraging people not to buy them... in other words... changing the culture... refining the people and their tastes... bringing back a sense of decency. asalaam and blessings, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |