the strength of Allah
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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32972
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Topic: the strength of Allah
Posted By: Lawson
Subject: the strength of Allah
Date Posted: 30 January 2015 at 12:49am
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With the greatest of respect I would like to ask a question about the strength of Allah.
There is a philosophical paradox that poses the question: If Allah is so powerful and can do ANYTHING, can he create a rock that is so heavy that he himself cannot lift it? As a student of religion I would be very interested in the Islamic answer to this question. I could not find an answer in the Quran or any non quranic scripture by any of the prophets so I thought I would ask you. May your God bless and keep you, Sincerely, Lawson |
Replies:
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 02 February 2015 at 11:11am
| Assalamalecum,first know what is Allah, Allah is one, he is eternal, he is neither born nor give birth, there is nothing like him.Allah does what he intends to do (ch 85 v 16), means we humans can't think how Allah does, we believe that Allah has done this, that's it. |
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 02 February 2015 at 1:03pm
Naba:
Airmano |
means we humans can't think how Allah does...Posted By: Emettman
Date Posted: 02 February 2015 at 2:34pm
That is a mere linguistic anomaly, not any sort of philosophical paradox. What happens when an irresistible force hits an immovable object? The answer is that it becomes apparent that the labels attached to at least one of the entities concerned was inaccurate. No need to involve a deity:as soon as two incompatible qualities are invoked at the same time, the imperfect nature of language is revealed. Nothing more. A big enough weight and you're in trouble with the word "lift", anyway. If it's the dominant local mass, it is what lifting against or falling towards is referenced *against*! Chris. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 03 February 2015 at 9:36am
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When an irresistible force hits an immoveable object the rest of the universe is moved, or at least whatever the force is anchored to does. Compared to relativity doing these old riddles is very easy. God can lift an infinitely heavy object because the world can be moved down rather than the object being lifted. |
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 03 February 2015 at 12:01pm
Emettman
The case you mention is two infinities fighting each other: An irresistible (= infinite ) force acting against an immovable object (infinite mass). One could naively answer: It is the one that is "more infinite" that wins. Sure, what characterizes infinity is just that you can never get there in the first place. Therefore I rather see it as a mathematical problem but I agree that the borderline is thin. As it seems even the mathematicians/philosophers can't really agree on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy_over_Cantors_theory - Cantor . Interestingly enough there are different levels of infinity (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_number - Aleph ) In my eyes it is already the construction of an almighty God itself that leads to contradictions. I tried to lay that out in this: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31695 - Almighty God but with little resonance. Airmano |
Posted By: Emettman
Date Posted: 04 February 2015 at 12:47am
Yes, I should have avoided the "mere", though this and related situations are those where ordinary language does not serve very well as the extremes of very small, very large and very detailed are approached.
Yes, this hurts the brain (and language) trained for and experienced in more "reasonable" numbers (a separate comforting illusion, there being an infinity of numbers between one and two.) Mathematics does indeed do better, and getting a room in Hilbert's hotel is fun, even if you are going to annoy an infinite number of people. But as technical jargon (no negative sense implied) mathematics of significant depth requires extra knowledge for its proper comprehension. Without that it becomes a "foreign language" and yet one from which terms and concepts can be borrowed, or stolen from their legitimate contexts without proper understanding of their meaning. And waved around in triumph, on occasion.
Yes, I can follow your argument there, and see how others have not fully responded to it. The free will/predestination debate has rattled down the centuries with no adequate resolution in a universe held to involve an omnipotent deity. In a wonderful(?) phrase I found in a commentary "the two are to be held in a constructive tension". (which I tend to read as "they don't fit together, but if you use enough baling wire that doesn't show up too badly.") Chris |
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 06 February 2015 at 2:36am
Emettman:
----------------------------- Than
It's a bit like the French cuisine: Well sounding dishes where only the cook may know what you finally get on your plate. Airmano |