American Christian new member: my views
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33050
Printed Date: 23 November 2024 at 8:43pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: American Christian new member: my views
Posted By: dennyg
Subject: American Christian new member: my views
Date Posted: 10 February 2015 at 3:54pm
|
I'm Christian, but grew up with two very good Sunni friends from junior high to today. I believe myself to better understand Islam than most Americans and most non-Muslims. So any views you may disagree with in those regards are based on interacting with them and their families as well as a few debates with my friends, sometimes heated ones.
I accept Jesus as my savior, but that is really the only thing in the Bible I accept on faith alone. If science or archaeology suggest a biblical error then facts should not be ignored. I believe in evolution, the Big Bang, and that Earth is billions of years old. I see the story of Noah's Ark I see as exaggeration of a regional flood event through years of storytelling until it became mythology. All myths have a truth at their core, and too many cultures share similar flood stories to think its a completely false tale, but there are too many holes to think it's highly accurate. My belief in science does not interfere with my faith. I see evolution as God's beautifully complex method of creation and proliferation of species. I think even God cannot simply will something into existence. Through the natural laws He created the Earth was formed and in time so were we. Religion should not play ANY role in society's laws. I know that Muslims see this as almost blasphemy due to the importance of Sharia but religion is too polarizing to use in lawmaking. Atheists have morals too, and secular morality is more universal in my mind. I can't be comfortable with not allowing gay people marriage because a 1000+ year old book said an orientation that science suggests is natural and at least somewhat genetic is a sin. Many animals of higher intelligence display homosexual behavior. It should be okay for humans. I support all people in the right to worship how they please as long as it doesn't harm others. Even though I may take issue with human rights due to some Quran passages at least some, in the Middle East it's their land and their rules. I will protest any attempt to bring Sharia on the citizens of other countries who don't want it. If you move to a country then you follow the laws in place. If you want to rewrite the country's constitution because of your religion then don't go. Some Muslims attempt to make Sharia part of the laws of a country they immigrate to in order to more easily follow the Quran. I understand the desire there, but the Quran also emphasizes not imposing Islam and its laws on anyone who isn't open to it. I believe that God, Allah, and Yahweh are the same deity. We all worship the same god with differing methods. Violence between these three is particularly sad to me because I think we're all so similar. I'm not saying that the Middle East should change drastically. That's not my place to say. And trying to impose democracy on people who resist it is just as bad as a muslim trying to force Sharia. The culture of the West and much of the Middle East is too different to pretend that either would work in the other region. Sorry if it's long. Again no offense meant. I have great respect for non violent members of these three faiths, as well as atheists and other world religions. These are my personal opinions and I am not saying that everyone should think as I do. Any thoughts, questions or anything else are welcome |
Replies:
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 10 February 2015 at 8:25pm
| First we have to reason that why Allah created religion, why, lets take in this way, we use mobiles, tv etc according to instruction manual,similarly Allah had given us instructions to lead life in Quran, eg implementing sharia is for our betterment only,like Allah ordered chopping of hands of thieves in ch 5 v 38, you may think that its harsh but I ask you that suppose if the victim who is robbed may be he was using this money for his treatment or his loved ones and a thief stole his money, as a result the treatment was not possible, so I ask you what should be the punishment of this theft???? But at the same Allah says in ch 7 v 199 of Quran hold onto forgiveness, command what is good and stay away from ignorant.So religion is for our betterment.like homosexuality is forbidden in islam because it is harmful for us in fact the first ever hiv case was reported through kaposi sarcoma a disease prevelant in homosexuals on 3.7.1981,friday.so my opinion is if you want to live a good life you have to obey Allah.ok a humble question at last, if you claim to be christian, what's your view on gospel of mark ch 16 v 17-18????? |
Posted By: dennyg
Date Posted: 10 February 2015 at 9:29pm
|
The topic of who actually can get into heaven is a heavily debated topic among many Christians. Some believe that Jesus died to save anyone and everyone regardless of their beliefs or sins. Others are very strict with their belief on who is saved, such as those who think only believers in Christ as their savior AND live a life of avoiding modern luxuries like electricity may enter Heaven.
The Bible tells me that only those who accept Jesus can enter. But I believe that if the God of Christianity exists, then his referenced benevolence/love for all people suggests forgiveness is given to all who live a good life (don't rape, murder, etc) regardless of religion. The religion one belongs to is often determined by what faith they were brought up in. So how can it be fair to punish a person who would've believed in Christ's divinity and been saved if only born to Christian parents? I'd hope that an omniscient and wise being such as God would see this, and not want billions of good people who were born into the wrong faith to suffer for something beyond their control. So to clarify all that in case it's confusing I'm saying that I choose to believe that all good people are saved. Christian, muslim, Jew, atheist, and anything else. But admittedly this is partially due to my having friends in several faiths or no faith. You never want to think that either you as a Christian or your muslim friend is wrong is bound for Hell no matter what. |
Posted By: dennyg
Date Posted: 10 February 2015 at 9:30pm
| Thanks for your post |
Posted By: dennyg
Date Posted: 10 February 2015 at 9:36pm
|
To answer another question you posed, I feel that a misdemeanor/felony charge, arrest, fine, and probable probation and permanent mark on one's criminal record is a better solution than hacking a limb off.
That is not really the part of Sharia that bothers me, however. I'm referring more to restrictions for women and other human rights. But as long as you do not impose it on anyone who doesn't want it then I have no issues with it at all. Your hypothetical about what the thief cost the man he robbed made me think: What if this thief is only stealing in order to get money that he needs to feed his starving family? Is that still against Sharia and to cost the man a hand? What then of his already suffering family? This would doom them |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 11 February 2015 at 11:12am
Greetings dennyg, I agree with most of what you said, except, I do not think that YHWH and allah are the same. (I don't know if I should elaborate.) I also agree that democracy can not be forced, however, for me, I see that to choose islam is to choose oppression I can never see making that choice - I can never see surrender to islam to choose democracy is to choose freedom the west stands for freedom - liberty - self determination - not to be ruled by tyrants I believe that when people are oppressed and we want to free them from that oppression, that is serving the Creator and His creation... it is seeking to serve good. I also believe this only comes through education and exposure to other cultures and understanding what it means to have freedom. People must desire freedom for themselves... however, the number of people that have immigrated to western nations I believe testifies that these people do have the desire for self-determination, for freedom, for education, for advancement... if they only knew how to break from the yoke of the ideology with which they were raised. (i.e., come to Christ  )When people want to put others under oppression, claiming that it is the will of God to do so... I do not, can not, see that that serves the Creator. The Creator gave us free will, and the only way to come to Him is freely of our own will... so we must be given the freedom to do so... to choose of our own accord. You asked for thoughts, there are mine.  asalaam and blessings to you, Caringheart ------------------------------------------ added note: I came across a old thread, 'can america and islam co-exist', it caused me to ask a more relevant question; Can islam and democracy co-exist? Can islam be democratic? I remember reading an article a year or so ago that talked about islam being democratic... even being the first democratic society. Is it possible? Can islam be democratic? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
dennyg wrote:Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 12 February 2015 at 11:07am
| First of all as a muslim I believe that its only Allah who will decide who is going to heaven or not, but Allah clearly said that Allah if wants can forgive any sin but not the sin of shirk, Allah in ch 103 v 1-4 of Quran says with token of time man is in state of loss except those who have faith, good deeds,resorting people to truth, resorting people to patience and perseverance.this verse reminds us whether we are on right path or not.regarding shariah about restrictions on women, first of all its a misconception that islam oppress women, in fact islam gives unimaginable respect to women because there is a chapter ch 4 named as Surah An Nisa which means women, so I aak you is there any a holy book in which a chapter is present named after women.this shows how woman a precious creation of Allah, islam promotes education for everyone irrespective of sex.in fact the first ever verse revealed to whole mankind was ch 96 v 1-5-recite in the name of Allah who created you, recite in the name of Allah who taught you that you didn't know, recite in the name of Allah who is the doer of big things.Allah in ch 4 v 19 of Quran says it is unlawful for you to inherit women under compulsion, live in kindness with them.regarding thief thing well Allah had commanded us on all well to do muslims to give zakah I.e charity to poor muslims,because of irregularity in this deed acts like robbing has occured. |
Posted By: eesa the kiwi
Date Posted: 20 February 2015 at 10:54pm
|
if you compare the drastically low rates of theft in saudi arabia compared to the united states where a car is stolen something like every 17 seconds i feel that critics coming from western countries (I'm from a western country myself) should realise that in islam the system works compared to yours which clearly is failing miserably. As for your question as to whether a starving theif stealing to feed his family would have his hand amputated the answer is no, there is allowances in the sharia for such circumstances ie in times of famine the punishment for theft is suspended. I would also consider womens rights in the west to be somewhat of a myth in my country you just have to go to town on a friday night to realise this. The way women are treated, verbally and sometimes physically abused by drunken *****s is appalling. Some of the things i've heard makes my skin crawl i would never treat a lady like that. Islam came and protected the rights of women outlining clearly strict guidelines dealing with their welfare. I'm not saying bad stuff doesn't go down in some so called muslim countries in the world but you will find in a lot of cases this is people trying to pass culture off as islam ie women being prevented from education (One of the biggest scholars in islam was a woman) Or honor killings (In most cases the perpertrators would be executed for murder), I hope this clarifies somewhat,
eesa |
Posted By: ProudSlave
Date Posted: 21 February 2015 at 10:10pm
|
Caring Heart -
You mentioned "Democracy"; "Freedom"; and "America" (U.S. I assume, not South or Central). You do realize that the United States is NOT A Democracy, right? It is a Constitutional Republic. A Democracy does NOT result in freedom, it results in mob rule. As soon as any particular group holds a majority, their will can be legally imposed on the minority. This is why the Constitution of our Republic contains what are referred as "negative rights" (a list of things that can NOT be done to the citizenry by the government, even if the majority thinks it is ok) Just wanted to clear that up :-) |
Posted By: Emettman
Date Posted: 22 February 2015 at 5:59am
Pretty much right: an unfettered democracy is mob rule with extra paperwork. The quality of a democracy (or a constitutional republic with (some) democratic voting process) depends on the degree to which the electorate id educated and informed. It also operates with the legal fiction that for this purpose all opinions are equally valid. Which they are not, really. "Democracy" is not a miracle word of liberty or perfection. Having said that, compared to most if not all the other options going around, it's hardly worse. For one thing it offers a route to changing authority and government without violence and bloodshed. The compatibility between Islam and democratic processes is low to minimal, as it is anathema that the public should have a deciding vote for something which might be unIslamic. |
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 24 February 2015 at 8:09am
I'd pretty much agree on what you (Emettman) wrote on democracy, i.e. the sentence
Democracy makes sure that those that are in power know that their successors may/will ask them to account for what they did (not) do and that there will be a (unforeseeable) successor in the first place. Here is a rather detailed study on the subject http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068254/ - Happiness & Democracy (Do a "find" on "democracy" in this article) I see it pretty much as Winston Churchill did: Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. Airmano |