Islam for non-Muslims - Verse 24:3 from the light

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Verse 24:3 from the light

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Forum Name: Islam for non-Muslims
Forum Description: Non-Muslims can ask questions about Islam, discussion for the purpose of learning.
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Topic: Verse 24:3 from the light

Posted By: Samuel
Subject: Verse 24:3 from the light
Date Posted: 16 August 2015 at 2:33pm

Yusuf Ali: Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.

I would like help exploring this in more detail to clarify its meaning and implcations in Todays world.

I hope for some patience in this as i would like to be able to follow whatever trails appear in the discussion and set others of through specific questions as a means of achieving this.

as a starter question .. in order to have need for this verse it would imply that there be living people to be still able to marry who are guilty of the adultry or fornication and who have not repented as further in the Verse it is made clear that if they repent their standing within the community is raised so they can and should now marry an upstanding muslim. So how does Stoning to death fit here even if living in a muslim country?

I know this may sound provocative but i genuinely want to explore this and feel that without people in this situation being alive any of my further questions become redundant.

Replies:

Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 17 August 2015 at 12:20pm

Stoning to death is only for married adulterers. That is if they fail to produce four witnesses and are found guilty. This is a deterrent as it would be very difficult to produce four independent witnesses of your adultery.

The verse you've quoted is for unmarried men. See the tasfir below.

* تفسير Tanw�r al-Miqb�s min Tafs�r Ibn �Abb�s
{ ٱلزَّانِي لاَ يَنكِحُ إِلاَّ زَانِيَةً أَوْ مُشْرِكَةً وَٱلزَّانِيَةُ لاَ يَنكِحُهَآ إِلاَّ زَانٍ أَوْ مُشْرِكٌ وَحُرِّمَ ذٰلِكَ عَلَى ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ }

(The adulterer) from the people of the Book who admits his crime (shall not marry save an adulteress) from the slaves of the people of the Book (or an idolatress) from the slaves of the Arab idolaters, (and the adulteress none shall marry save an adulterer) from the people of the Book (or an idolater) from the Arab idolaters. (All that) marrying the slaves of the people of the Book and the slaves of Arab idolaters (is forbidden unto believers) this verse was revealed about a group among the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh) who wanted to marry some slaves from the people of the Book and Arab idolaters in Medina. These slaves were known adulteresses but these prophetic Companions wanted to marry them in order to win them over. When this verse was revealed they refrained from marrying them.

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=24&tAyahNo=3&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

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La Ilaha IllAllah

Posted By: Samuel
Date Posted: 17 August 2015 at 3:25pm

thank you for your help (ps i presume you mean if they do produce 4 witnesses and are therefore found guilty ) ok so if a a marriage now takes place between 2 people in this situation is the marriage still valid and complete with the normal rules of marriage and with the full protection of muslim community and who would officiate and register such a marriage?

Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 19 August 2015 at 3:18am

Samuel wrote:

thank you for your help (ps i presume you mean if they do produce 4 witnesses and are therefore found guilty ) ok so if a a marriage now takes place between 2 people in this situation is the marriage still valid and complete with the normal rules of marriage and with the full protection of muslim community and who would officiate and register such a marriage?

How would people know that these two who want to get married are fornicators? If they are not found out and if they do not admit their sins to anybody then they are free to marry. Also in Islam, a sin is a private matter between the person who commits the sin and His Maker Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

I suspect that marriages are happening everyday between fornicators. How could anyone stop such a thing?

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La Ilaha IllAllah

Posted By: Samuel
Date Posted: 19 August 2015 at 11:45am

ok good point but what if lets say a woman had been found and known to be a fornicator and as the penalty is not death was alive after whatever the punishment was metted out what then if she didnt repent of having done it but behaved so that she could not be accused of repeat offending and she then decided to marry an unbeliever which according to this verse would be appropriate who would marry them and would the marriage be protected and valid?

Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 21 August 2015 at 2:57am

You don't seem to understand the context in which this verse was revealed.

Read the tasfir very carefully.

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La Ilaha IllAllah

Posted By: Samuel
Date Posted: 21 August 2015 at 12:43pm

i understand the context but the wording of the verse clearly seems to be not only written for the context but also to set a precedent about what are to be accepted as suitable marriages. where does it imply this is written for one event in history and if such surely a shorter no as an answer would have sufficed for the companions and their plan to marry the slaves.

Or are you saying that the Quran is only applicable to the context and times revealed. I don't think this is how muslims see the Quaranic verses so the question of marriages of this sort still stands unless you can say for certain this verse is context limited and the proof of this. As a side note how much of the Quran is to be context only applied ?

Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 24 August 2015 at 3:38am

Samuel wrote:

i understand the context but the wording of the verse clearly seems to be not only written for the context but also to set a precedent about what are to be accepted as suitable marriages. where does it imply this is written for one event in history and if such surely a shorter no as an answer would have sufficed for the companions and their plan to marry the slaves.

Or are you saying that the Quran is only applicable to the context and times revealed. I don't think this is how muslims see the Quaranic verses so the question of marriages of this sort still stands unless you can say for certain this verse is context limited and the proof of this. As a side note how much of the Quran is to be context only applied ?

Look a true believer will not marry a known fornicator. Unless that believer is a truly pious person and the fornicator has sought forgiveness from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Otherwise it's clearly forbidden.

I don't know what you are trying to drive here.

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La Ilaha IllAllah

Posted By: Samuel
Date Posted: 24 August 2015 at 1:57pm

well im simply looking at the verse and it offers advice regarding the pious believer but also gives clear advice for the less pious believer who has clearly fallen below the standards outlined and has not been able to ask forgiveness for whatever reason ( possably loves someone outside the community of the pious muslims) , it clearly outlines suitable marriage for them. And it is the validity and protections of these marriages i'm interested in. For if the only behaviour tolerated from them is either as forgiveness or leave the community why not just say so not "let them marry". I'm driving for clear information'