Striking Sililarity between Hell and Black Hole
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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
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Topic: Striking Sililarity between Hell and Black Hole
Posted By: ISLAM HASHTAG
Subject: Striking Sililarity between Hell and Black Hole
Date Posted: 09 November 2015 at 10:37pm
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Dear Aetheist,What Do You think in this Regard? 
The Full article can be read here: http://islamhashtag.com/striking-similarity-between-hell-and-black-hole/ - http://islamhashtag.com/striking-similarity-between-hell-and-black-hole/ Would really like to know your Views. |
Replies:
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 11 November 2015 at 10:09am
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If hell is (a) black hole it also has to respect Energy conservation and Entropy.
Thus, hell hotter than heaven is (in the long run) in conflict with the second law of thermodynamics. This implies that the difference between heaven and hell will fade over time and both will have to become indistinguishable. This is when we can finally meet Allah and Satan in the same pub. Airmano ------------- The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter") |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 12 November 2015 at 1:46am
| Since droping something into a black hole will destroy any information in it better than any other method any idea that a soul, whatever that is, would retain the complexity to rember stuff is silly. |
Posted By: ISLAM HASHTAG
Date Posted: 12 November 2015 at 3:35am
| In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. (1987) -- Carl Sagan |
Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 13 November 2015 at 8:13am
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What do I think of this? It is trivial nonsense. The specific comparisons are puerile and facile. Anyone could concoct similar imagined parallels for anything. Why do you think this is of any interest or importance?
Let me tell you what has really happened here. Very clever people called scientists have formed a family of complex theories to explain certain observed phenomena and earlier theoretical findings going back over 100 years. The physical manifestions of these theories have popularly been called black holes. Note the plural - the theories predict very many of them, everywhere in the Universe. Ongoing scientific observations and further theoretical work have confirmed the existence of these 'black holes' to a high degree of certainty, although the exact workings of them and how they interact with the known laws of physics remains the subject of much debate and conjecture. Nevertheless, the discovery ('discovery' meaning the theories' consistency with a compelling body of theoretical work and ongoing and improving observations) is one of the towering achievements of the human race. The leading scientists behind this work should be viewed with awe and admiration. Now then, something else happened... There are some disreputable, not very intelligent people who are always looking for dubious arguments to support their particular view of the world. These people looked around and stumbled across the black hole concept. They didn't understand it at all well, but they did quickly see how a few of the simplistic, popular descriptions of black holes could be twisted and bent until they appeared (to an ill-informed audience) to fit fairly well with some of their own insubstantiated theories about the world. The fit was pretty rubbish in truth, and needed them to ignore all the stuff that DIDN'T fit the argument, but they knew that their audience would be delighted to soak up this nonsense and convince themselves that the parallels were utterly convincing. It was perfect. The fraudsters didn't even need to try very hard. They knew the faithful would do all the work for them. And so it came to pass. Christ, its depressing. Is this the sort of thing that helps convince people of their faith?? If so, it just goes to demonstrate how threadbare and pathetic that faith is, and how utterly impossible it is to get people to see sense. |
Posted By: ISLAM HASHTAG
Date Posted: 27 November 2015 at 10:44am
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Oh really?
Let me quote to you some verse from Quran that suits you= 43|36|Whoever shuns the remembrance of the Most Gracious, We assign for him a devil, to be his companion. 43|37|They hinder them from the path, though they think they are guided. 43|40|Can you make the deaf hear, or guide the blind, and him who is in evident error? |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 01 December 2015 at 5:24am
What has that got to do with black holes? |
ISLAM HASHTAG wrote:Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 01 December 2015 at 10:55am
This is precisely the reason that makes me think that Islam will go faster out of business then Christianity. When you look at Christianity it also took a painstakingly long time to convince the people (or rather the educated) of the time that the sun does not revolve around the earth and even (as the pope acknowledged) that Evolution Theory ET is more than "just a theory". Opposite to Islam these insights came nevertheless from inside Christianity (even Copernicus and Newton were Christians). For Islam it is perceived as imposed upon from Christianity and the resistance and resilience to this mental change is therefore even stronger (Just look at the discussions about ET and you see what I mean). To slow down the tide and give the believers the soothing feeling that Islamic reasoning is at the same height as secular thinking the "Quranic Miracles" have been invented (there have been hardly any claims about "scientific miracles in the Quran" before the '80s). For all outsiders it is obvious how ridiculous these claims are and - sooner or later it will also trickle into the (leading) Muslims heads, just because -in order to survive- nowadays big societies can't do without modern knowledge anymore. And this will be the 'moment' of truth - but of a very different nature than the one which is mentioned in the Quran Airmano Ps: The other day I read that Saudi Arabia has bought an atomic clock from Germany. This didn't make it through the press, but I consider it as highly important news: They will need well educated people to operate this and similar kinds of devices. People with a sound knowledge in Quantum Mechanics and Physics can only laugh about this black hole/Hell thoughts, but this time they are likely to come from the home country of Islam. Without realizing the implications they've just bought some sort of "Pandora's box". ------------- The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter") |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 01 December 2015 at 8:42pm
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Can someone please tell me exactly where hell is referred to as "narul hamea", i.e. a black hole? I can't find it in the Quran, if that's what you mean. ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 01 December 2015 at 10:24pm
1. There is no external source of energy. 2. Both the entities are in contact to each other. Can you provide any plausible reason to make such assumptions? |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 01 December 2015 at 10:31pm
Just for sake of argument, if you believe in soul, or whatever that is, then you should also know the power of the Creator of the Black Hole. For Him, there is no difficulty. He only says 'Be' and that is it; everything happens, as per his plan. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 02 December 2015 at 2:03am
I don't believe in a soul but just for the sake of understanding what a black hole is... If you write something on a piece of paper the information is there for somebody else to read. If you burn that paper it is gone. Nobody can ever read the information. That is because the molecules of the paper are nolonger in a stable configuration and are not capable of holding any particular form as smoke. If you drop the paper into the sun not only will it be converted into gas but the molecules will then be torn apart and even the electrons striped from their atoms leaving a plasma where the electrons and nucleus's of atnoms wander about freely. It's that hot. If you drop the paper into a black hole the radiation will destroy it long before it gets anywhere near it, the heat will then make it a plasma, the tidal forces caused by it's concentrated gravity will spread the plasma very widely around the black hole and that's all before it actualy goes into the thing. Once in it gets much worse. There is no better way of destroying information than droping it into a black hole. To be anything a soul must contain your personality. Well that would be information. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 02 December 2015 at 8:18pm
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Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 03 December 2015 at 1:04pm
1) Not quite sure what you mean. Are you alluding to the question whether the Universe is an open or a closed system ? 2) No, all bodies above the absolute zero emit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation - Black Body Radiation , otherwise any hot body in a vacuum would stay hot forever - what is not the case. -------------------------------------------------------
Having said so, I fully agree that souls would have a hard time resisting the destructive power of a black hole, be they Muslims or Christians, with or without daily prayers. Airmano ------------- The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter") |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 03 December 2015 at 10:11pm
You too seems like to ignore my argument without realizing that the concept of �Soul� is only with the faithful and not the atheists. Thus, with this concept of �Soul� comes the concept of �God�, a divine entity with unlimited powers, by definition. So what is �hard time� and how does it make difference to the creatures like us? All irrelevant. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 04 December 2015 at 1:07am
Well, yes, if there is a supremly all powerful God then he can do what he wants to. Why would he use a real physical thing to do that though? Especially a black hole which is very tricky to do anything with. And why has my text gone small? |
Posted By: ISLAM HASHTAG
Date Posted: 04 December 2015 at 2:29am
Narul hamea is Mentioned in surah 101:11 Surah Al Qariah 101|9|His home is the Hawiyah-Pit ie hell. 10 وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا هِيَهْ 101|10|Do you know what it is? 11 نَارٌ حَامِيَةٌ 101|11|A Fiercely Raging Fire. |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 04 December 2015 at 8:34pm
Your own source translates it as "a fiercely raging fire". http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=101&verse=11 - Corpus Quran renders it as "narun hamiyatun", or "a fire intensely hot". How do you get "black hole" out of that?  ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 05 December 2015 at 1:20am
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Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 05 December 2015 at 2:20am
I don't know, the description of a ring of intense fire is fairly decent for a black hole that has stuff falling into it. Very, very intense fire that is the atoms being striped of their electrons and then being smahed into radiation.... very, very hot. |
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 05 December 2015 at 8:23am
I also don't see why you need assumption 1 ("There is no external source of energy") for black body radiation to exist, can you explain ? Airmano ------------- The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter") |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 05 December 2015 at 11:36pm
�Thus, hell hotter than heaven is (in the long run) in conflict with the second law of thermodynamics. This implies that the difference between heaven and hell will fade over time and both will have to become indistinguishable.� However, you would realize that if there is an external energy source which keeps on feeding the hotter hell at a steady rate, the system can remain in an equilibrium without violating the Energy Conservation. This situation resembles those of stable and in equilibrium Black Holes in nature. |