I am extremely surprised that the offensive cartoon that made the headlines today has not been discussed.  What's the big deal?

My mother pointed out to me how people have denigrated the idea of Jesus many times and you rarely hear a peep out of anyone.  However, when the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is depicted, the world goes into an uproar.

It is true that Muslims are more sensitive to depictions of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW).  I think they are like this because Islam means a lot to Muslims.  It's more than just a religion to us.  It means the world to us.  Personally Islam has touched me deeply.  Praying and fasting is like the best drug out there.  It gives you a high that no drug or drink can give you.  It makes you happier than Zoloft, Paxil or Prozac.  Islam and the lifestyle it promotes makes millions around the world very happy.  No wonder Muslims get offended when their Prophet, a man who epitomized the Islamic lifestyle is denigrated.

I don't think Muslims are inherently violent and sensitive.  Being a Muslim changes you.  It makes you fall in love with Allah.  Muslims love Allah so much that it hurts them when anyone insults Allah's religion Islam or Allah's Prophet Muhammad (SAW).

That's my take on it...I could be wrong :|

Assalamu Alaikum

Brother Megatron, it definitely appears that Muslims are more sensitive regarding insults hurled at their faith.  They accuse us of 'over reacting.'  However, I think part of the world perception of Muslims� reactions towards incidents of malice aimed at their faith is because the world perception is generated within a context of religion in general.  That is, the way Muslims react is compared to the way Christians and Jews react to such things.  Since Christians and Jews rarely make a peep when such malice is hurled toward their faith, it makes the outcries of Muslims appear to be that much grander.  However, the truth of the matter is that the reaction of Muslims is healthy as long as it doesn�t lead to acts which bring harm to innocent individuals.  We react with loud cries if someone does malice to our friends or family, so how can we not react even more loudly when someone does that toward our Creator?

I had no desire to bring up this issue, and maybe others feel the same, because it really is senseless to discuss this.  I don�t think there is anything to be debated.  The man that did this was wrong.  Inshallah, no innocent blood will be spilt over this matter.

Allah Hafiz

Sister Khadija 

Bismillah,

Ameen, Sister Khadijah. 

Thanks for your passion on the subject, Mega!

Megtron, it's being discussed more on other forums.  I'm so outraged (and that doesn't quite express my emotion) that it's best for me not to comment on the issue, especially since nobody here works for the Danish newspaper.  Alhamdulila, Allah spared me from seeing such blasphemy.  If these people do not sincerely repent to Allah before death, then his la'nat is on them in this life and the hereafter. 

Salaam

As Salamu Alaikum

These drawings cannot tarnish Islam, nor the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) nor the Muslims.

Throughout history, Muslims have being the victims of such campaigns and Islam and the Muslims always somehow emerge stronger and unscathed.

Wa Alaikum Salam

As'Salaamu Alaikum,

I for one cannot say that I'm "outraged" but I can say that I find these posting of these cartoons as unacceptable behavior on the part of the media. When I read the articles in regards to this, the Danish media response (which is usually said by their spokesman/woman) was that this was "freedom of the press."

However the counter arguement should be that in light of such freedoms one must be careful and not to make subjective comments which in themselves would restrict the freedoms of others. The posting of these foolish cartoons are not freedom, but a broad sweeping opinion held by those ignorant of Islam.

It is eveident because the Danbish spokesman said that "this is an accurate depiction of radical Islam who are extreme in their dogma and who show their extremisties by veiling their women also." It is apparent that the media is ignorant therefore the restraint should come from the Muslims. We all know that most of the world is ignorant of Islam.

No matter how many times we can come up with the argument on what Islam stands for in this world negativity superceeds positive reinforcement. The best thing Muslims should do is to pray and show restraint. The day of reckoning will come where very individual will have to answer for what they've done.

I hope the brothers in Pakistan and in the Palestine areas to show restraint to Jews and Christians who had nothing to do with the media. Also I pray that those who call themselves "defenders of the faith" to show sometype of restraint. Godwilling.

Mohammad,

Of course you're not offended by the cartoon because you're an ex-muslim.  If not embracing Islam is "enjoying life", then I feel very sorry for you.  Enjoy drinking alcohol, eating filthy pork products or whatever debaucherous act you enjoy.  I've been down that road before and it's an empty life.  Maybe you should change your name too if Islam is so bad. 

Aside from that, the portrayal of Muhammad PBUH(not Mohammad...Mohammad is the transliteration of British colonialists who could not pronounce the name properly and is an insult)...Muslims do not want that portrayal because they want to prevent what has happened with Christianity.  I can guarantee you if Muhammad PBUH was portrayed, there would be a faction of people who would worship him.  Thankfully, depictions of the Prophet were suppressed and we learn from his teachings and his conduct instead of stressing his appearance. 

I think I can say that those of us Muslims who like our faith would sacrifice our lives to protect the Prophet if we were alive during the Prophet's time.  If I'm willing to die for someone, you're damned right I'd be offended if that someone was portrayed in a negative way.

To imply that because a Muslim lives in a non-Muslim country, he/she is supposed to sit idly while their beliefs are insulted is ludicrous.  We make up the societies we live in and our entitled to raise complaints when we feel it is correct.

Besides we're growing at such fast rate that our political muscle will just get stronger and stronger so the world is going to have to accept our beliefs.

Theese cartoons are nothing else but an attack on Islam. The same newspaper refused, in 2003, to publish some similar cartoons of Jesus (AS), because they didn't want to hurt the peoples feeling. In the case of Muhammad PBUH, the same newspaper had no idea that it will reach out to 1,3 billion muslims all over the world, but only to 200.000 muslims living in Denmark. 

A muslim living in Denmark 

Salam Abu-Ayoub,

It was a deliberate attempt to defame Islam, and see what we "weak" Muslims can do. Our response to this crisis has to be well reasoned seeking the blessings of Allah.

Those fools who did it, have no idea that apart from more than 1.5 billion Muslim followers, Allah will also frown upon them ( Edit add: unless they sincerely repent ) as they have depicted the Prophet of Islam in such a humiliating manner. Watch it,  InshaAllah, world will take a great turn from this point onwards. And I can only see that the blessings of Allah will be on us Muslims ( Edit Add: if our response is islamically appropriate to the crisis ). And it would create just the opposite effect inshaAllah to what those evil cartoonists intended.

Peace

As'Salaamu Alaikum Ya Muslimeen!

Br's and Sr's let me remind all here that although what the Danish news media did was inappropriate by the standards of respecting the beliefs of others let me say here that remember Muhammad is not Islam. Muhammad brought the message of God to the world when it was lost and mankind needed a reminder of the word.

When we see false depictions of the prophet Muhammad it should be set out as an "attack on Islam" because Islam existed far beyond the advent of the prophet. These depictions ar ein no way an attack at all. These are false depictions generated by the false understanding of Islam.

Obviously these individuals in the media are using the ignorance of other Muslims who use violence in replacement of dialogue and correlate these actions with the tenents of Islam. Not only this, but this is also a hint of racism as well. The assumption here is that all supposed people of Arab decent wear turbans.

Again not only are these depictions inappropriate but is the direct evidence of the ignorance of others. I hope we can get beyond any generalizations. I also hope the Muslims abroad can urge restraint and not damage property. Such actions only generate more bias against Islam and further gives other ignorant people ammunition to say "See told you so."

bismillah irrahman irrahim

assalamu alaikum

when these non-muslim ppl say whateva they sayin bout how muslims are reactin in different countries then u say ok they dont know how we r feeling, how could they bcos religion is not anything for them but honestly it really hurts when i see muslims talkin in their tone, so u think it is not an attack on islam just our prophet, let me remind u what Allah swt says in Holy Quran

 Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL

on anathor occasion

"Verily Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet (s). O, Believer! Send blessings upon him and salute him with a worthy salutation."

and im sure u must hav heard hadith of Umar (ra) when he said to Sayyidina Muhammad (saw) that he loves him more than every thing apart from himself n Sayyidina Muhammad (saw) said ur imaan is not complete untill u love me more than urself n later on Umar (ra) came back n said that now i love u even more than myself

Im quite sure that every muslim knows this fact that Sayyidina Muhammad (saw) is most beloved to our dear lord so how is it possible for every muslim who claims to love Allah swt not to be offended n outraged by this lowly act, im sure your hand will be raised against a person who talks against ur mum so why shame saying that ur blood boils even hearin this, honestly this reaction of trying to impose that ppl who r on street against this act are not representative of mojority of muslim bemuses me. mayb it dont represent those muslims who r not offended r whateva but they r representin majority of us. yeah they should not burn down danish embassies but i hope every muslim country n every individual gets enuf sense out of this incident n completely boycott danish products

wassalam

Salam Fatima,

Yes, I am going to boycott Danish products, and tell everybodyelse to do so until Danish government changes its laws so that such a mockery of "freedom of expression" doesn't happen again. This is the smallest thing I can do as a Muslim. And I am sure a majority of Muslims will agree that we would like to be assured that it doesn't happen again. A sincere apology from the Prime Minister is must. I am also going to boycott products from Euro zone nations who santioned this form of terrorism hurting more than 1.5 billion Muslims.

I have to do this little thing. What if they go ahead and plan to nuke Mecca to "liberate" Muslims as many media channels focussed on this soon after Sept 11.

( Edit Add: We also need sincere public apology from Danish newspaper besides Danish Prime Minister. The newspaper, by refusing to apologise, is confirming his act of worst form of terrorism. )

Peace

Salam Jenni,

I ( and many ) are equally offended, but majority of those followers keep quiet. InshaAllah, this wave ( Edit Add: of course islamically appropriate protest without burning of property or harming innocent civilians ) will teach them to stop insulting any Messenger of Allah ( peace and blessings of Allah be on them ).

Peace

Fatima, Salaam

I'm not saying anything about anyone in particular what I am saying is that these actions done by the media are inappropriate but we cannot validate any claim by responding in a physical violent manner. My position here i that ignoranceprevails anyway and to make a stad I believe we should respond in an educated and civil manner. Yes when they defame the prophet it is senseless and inappropriate, but as the Qur'an says "God is the best of planners." I'd allow people to say whatever because in the end the Almighty has the last laugh.  I think our best bet is to return the favor by educating the masses even more. I myself cannot say that I'm personally offended because it was not a personal attack.

Let me remind the Muslims that Muhammad did not come for Muslims but for mankind therefore do not feel personally offended. Just like Muhammad being of the Arab culture he was not for Arabs but for all mankind like every other prophet. We all know ignorance is bliss in the world but those who are not on the plane yet I say we become civil and act more through educating the general population

I'm not Muslim, but even I found these cartoons offense.

I have seen them.  Not only are they idiotic, they are also poorly drawn.   I think I know political satire when I see it.  This stuff wasn't political satire.

The problem I have with these "cartoons" is that they are a form of hate propaganda promoting negative religious based stereotypes.  Putting them on the front pages of prominent European newspapers was poor editorial judgement.

The way I see it hate propaganda may be offensive, but its non-violent.  The violent reactions directed at people who are guilty of nothing more than being Danish, Norwegian...etc is pretty disgraceful.

If people have a problem with these "cartoons", a reasonable  reaction should have been measured and non-violent, not unrestrained angry mob violence against innocent people.  Mob violence only serves to perpetuate the same negative Muslim stereotypes depicted in cartoons. 

So yes the cartoons were a disgrace, but the reaction was even more disgraceful.

bismillah irrahman irrahim

assalamu alaikum

well brother israfil all i can do is pray for u that Allah swt blesses u wiv love of Sayyidina Muhammad (saw) bcos without it imaan is not complete,

n i would want every1 who wants us to react in so called civilized way should read the sirah that how sahaba (ra) reacted to ppl who were even slightely bad toned to our dear prophet (im sayin this for muslims, no offense but non-muslims cant even have a slight clue of what v feelin n how should we feel). I mean com'n every1 who reads Holy Quran should know that sahaba (ra) were being told by our dear lord to lower their voices infront of Sayyidina Muhammad (saw). 'VOICES' n now we want to think how we react when the whole idea of islam is being ridiculed.

but then again end of the day depends on what we want from life, i mean for sahaba (ra) all they wanted was nearness to their lord n they knew that following beloved of our dear lord n loving him more than ownself is the key,

Allah swt says in Holy Quran 'Then (there will be) the Companions of the Right Hand;- What will be the Companions of the Right Hand? And the Companions of the Left Hand,- what will be the Companions of the Left Hand? And those Foremost (in Faith) will be Foremost (in the Hereafter). These will be those Nearest to God: In Gardens of Bliss: A number of people from those of old. And a few from those of later times. (56: 8-14)

I always used to think bout these ayaat that for us muslims of later years it will b hard to b among the foremost bcos there will b more competition for places sort of thing but we are not even worthy of that place, what i mean is that one of the sahaba broke his own teeth finding out that Sayyidina Muhammad (saw) lost his in the battle but then again their goal was high, they knew this world is not worth even a wing of fly to our lord, I sincerely hope n pray to Allah swt that we wake up from this bcos the way we are we r neither for this world nor for akhira

wassalam

As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

Auzo Billahe Minash-Shaitanir-Rajim

All I understand by all this is that the Shaitan and his army of evil mischief makers have once again succeeded in sowing discord, to which the Muslims reacted calmly by only boycotting products and ended by the burning of embassies. The end result the victims have now become the aggressors.

Personally I think an apology at this stage is too late. It would only have being a sincere apology it was done at the first instant and all the rest was avoided. The damage is already done. The Haters of Peace have won once again.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala curse the evil mischief makers. Ameen!

A little sanity in an insane world.  A boycott is an appropriate response.  If you really want to hit the offenders, I would suggest boycotting anyone who advertises in the offending newspapers.  Putting the newspapers out of business would be a just and measured response.

I would also like to quote the sentiments of someone in another mostly American forum:

>>>>>>>

I will say this to those "offended" by this nonsense:

If you are secure in your beliefs, why be so upset? Some are saying that the muslim world doesn't do these things, but I question that. Say what you will about Israel, THE COUNTRY, but when leaders of ME countries question the holocaust and make fun of jews IS THAT NOT the same thing?

When they tolerate the rantings of extremists who kill Christians in retaliation for AMERICA, THE COUNTRY attacking Iraq, well, is that not the same thing?

The street is allowing itself to be manipulated by those folks with agendas. Fine, be upset! But don't resort to violence one minute and then tell me that Islam is the religion of peace the next time.

I am the most tolerant guy I know. ALl of you know how I felt about the invasion of Iraq (i would hope). I STILL think it's wrong and will say it to my death. BUT this nonsense where radicals in Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq, et al are exhorting harm to others is just stupid.

Who's humiliating who here? To me, the folks crying the loudest are humiliating their religion more than any cartoon ever can.

Keep it up folks, the rest of the world that isn't Muslim is watching very closely.

>>>>>

That wasn't me, but I share the man's sentiments.

These kind of incidents are a delibrate attempt to provoke muslims to react with violance with an ulterior motive to brand Islam as a religion of violance and Muslims as terrorists. By attacking embassies and carrying out violent demonstration, we have re-inforced the wrong image of Islam.

You could say that the bombings in London last year were among other things, a deliberate attempt to provoke the general British population to react with violence against British Muslims. Apart from a very few exceptions, a violent backlash simply didn't happen. I know many Muslims take great joy in demonizing the "ungodly" west, but there are obviously quite a few Muslims around the world who could benefit from emulating our stoicism and restraint in the face of provocation.

Colin wrote: These kind of incidents are a delibrate attempt to provoke muslims to react with violance with an ulterior motive to brand Islam as a religion of violance and Muslims as terrorists. By attacking embassies and carrying out violent demonstration, we have re-inforced the wrong image of Islam. You could say that the bombings in London last year were among other things, a deliberate attempt to provoke the general British population to react with violence against British Muslims. Apart from a very few exceptions, a violent backlash simply didn't happen. I know many Muslims take great joy in demonizing the "ungodly" west, but there are obviously quite a few Muslims around the world who could benefit from emulating our stoicism and restraint in the face of provocation.

Oh don't hand me that pompous "we brits are too civilized for that." You people riot over a soccer game

I guess this proves we are all human and therefore imperfect.

We Canadians are known for being polite until someone puts a hockey stick in our hands:

hockey fights: http://www.zen36114.zen.co.uk/ - http://www.zen36114.zen.co.uk/

Skygazer wrote:

Oh don't hand me that pompous "we brits are too civilized for that." You people riot over a soccer game

Ah, but not the general population.......Just a small minority from the soccer supporting classes.  ;---)

You may have a point though...Perhaps the embassy burning classes in Muslim countries are in reality, out of season soccer fans....  ;---)

The boycott on the Danish products was successfull. If the momentum thus gathered is utilised to its potential and it is extended to all of the Western products, West can be dealt a severe blow. I think the boycott is feasible because most (if not all) of the needs of the Muslims (which are currently being satisfied by the Western products) can be satisfied by the Japanese and Korean products.

rami wrote: Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem dont kid your selfs new muslims cant possibly understand what born muslims are going through it is in our very being, you are in a state between cultures and dont fully comprahend the depth of these insults.

Its not just the new muslims. Its only the Western new "Muslims" who don't feel the anger as much as we do. They evaluate Islam from Western perspective while the Western perspective itself is not appropriate to correctly understand Islam.

candor wrote: I think the boycott is feasible because most (if not all) of the needs of the Muslims (which are currently being satisfied by the Western products) can be satisfied by the Japanese and Korean products.

I hope the Japanese or Korean press don't publish anything that Muslims find offensive.

Otherwise it could be camel burgers for dinner for the foreseeable future...  ;---)

Colin wrote: candor wrote: I think the boycott is feasible because most (if not all) of the needs of the Muslims (which are currently being satisfied by the Western products) can be satisfied by the Japanese and Korean products. I hope the Japanese or Korean press don't publish anything that Muslims find offensive. Otherwise it could be camel burgers for dinner for the foreseeable future...  ;---)

Yep.(Assuming Muslims are strong enough to face the hardship).

Assalamu Alaikum:

Well, I'm happy to see that any subject anywhere in the world can somehow be turned into an insult against new revert Muslims or Western revert Muslims. Amazing!!!

Al HamdilAllah the Prophet(PBUH) had no problem with reverts to Islam or he would have been the only Muslim. All of the Sahaba reverted to Islam.

At a time when ALL Muslims should pull together it's nice to see those little division lines are still there. No wonder the Ummah is weak and we are vulnerable to anything anyone wants to say or do.

Bismillah,

Maybe we should forget the Danish, buy their smelly cheese, and have two teams:  Western Muslims versus Eastern Muslims in a smelly cheese fight.  The winners get to either take the cheese home, or boycott it.

Are we sure the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans haven't already published copies of the caricatures? (You know, cartoon isn't the right word in American English anyway.)

ak_m_f wrote: but danish cookies are amazing

Muslims should stand firm and set their browsers to not accept Danish cookies......

HerjihadFunny, I had to read it a few times before I got it. My brain is a little slow today. Anyway I think humor can be a great way to diffuse a tense situation. And I think being born muslim or reverting means absoloutly nothing as far as how much you love prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) or any other messenger. I have a good story to tell, a long time ago when I was fresh out of high school I used to hang out at a cofee shop with a bunch of my girlfriends. We met some young rather short men that we would talk with from time to time. They were Iraqi Kuridish refugees. We used to get in lots of discussions with them and they would tell us about thier homeland and all of thier trials and problems. They would also talk a little about religon. One evening we were all surprised to learn that they Muslims believed in our Jesus. Jesus(may Peace be with him) we thought, he is our prophet and saviour. What can these guys know about him? But really we rarely though of Jesus and only celebrated his birth at Christmas and his death at Easter.

One of the guys said, I love Jesus and he put his fist to his heart. He looked so emotional and he really meant it. He went on to talk about Jesus and his Mother the blessed Mary. I sincerely believe he had far more love in his heart for Jesus and Mary than most Christians I have met. Certainly more than any of us did. He was a Muslim and he taught me about Jesus. And maybe a reverted Muslim can teach another Muslim about Mohammed. And maybe we can even learn about Islam from the good Islamic deeds of some non Muslims. Just like I learned about Jesus. Mashalla Now I am a Muslim and I love Jesus, Mohammed and all the prophets, but it is a love that grows with time and wisdom. With prayers and fasting. It is a work in progress!!!!

herjihad wrote: Bismillah, Maybe we should forget the Danish, buy their smelly cheese, and have two teams:  Western Muslims versus Eastern Muslims in a smelly cheese fight.  The winners get to either take the cheese home, or boycott it.

Assalamu Alaikum:

It wouldn't really work: the Western Muslims would be too busy discussing why we shouldn't have the cheese fight and the Eastern Muslims would set the cheese on fire...

Salam all,

Sister Jenni good post. I don't know why we even get involved with the issue of born versus revert or east versus west whereas everything belongs to Allah. The closest to Him is the one who is strong in faith.

Mishmish post ( what would Muhammad do ? ) that involves quotes from Qur'an and ahadith as to what would Prophet ( pbuh ) do in the face of adversity: I am confused as to what to do. Should we really be boycotting Danish products because it would also hurt innocent civilians of that nation? May Allah guide us. Any input please.

Peace

bismillah irrahaman irrahim

assalamu alaikum

Sayyidina Muhammad (saw) was given name of 'Rahim' by Allah (swt) which is one of our dear lord's name, it is bein said that Sayyidina Muhammad (saw) was a mercy for the whole world, every1 understands why he is mercy to believers but scholars explain that he is a mercy to non-believers too. as in previous nations big sins against Allah swt were punished in the world straight away as in the case of ummah of Sayyidina Muhammad (saw) they r given more time n if they act good in the world n r not believers their good acts dont go to waste but r rewarded in this world.  our dear prophet (saw) is a mercy to the world but this dont mean that we let rubbish thrown at him, our responsibility is to stand between that, in his time his behaviour was his advocate, it spoke for him louder than anything n made his stern enemies best of believers but these days its our responsibility cos im sure those ppl know very well bout his pure character but this is done to incite hatred for muslims, we should boycott danish products even though if we love it cos if we let it go we dont know whats goin to come next,

n issue of born or revert muslims should neva hav been raised cos its imaan that counts but khair neway

wassalam

Bismillah,

ROFL - No Danish Cookies here! And MM - thanks for the hilarity!

Jen -- sweet, poignant story.

Fatima -- Your post reminded me of the story of the one good Muslim in a town, and it was destroyed anyway because he shouldn't have been there or should have guided them to the right path.  Does anyone know this one?

bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

subhanAllah wabehamdehi, subhanAllah-ilazeem, it is said that there was a town in ancient times n every1 in that town exept one person were transgressors n they used to do every evil deed there is, n this person used to b very pious n did every thing according to command of his lord exept that he neva told any1 else bout the right from wrong n neva tried to preach msg of his lord, so when Allah swt ordered his angels to destroy the town they said to their lord that in that town there is also a person who is very good slave of his lord as he worships all the time, Allah swt ordered the angels to start it from that person's house

n ppl of knowledge explaind it that it was bcos once a person knows bout the oneness of his lord n learns n follows his laws then next step is to take it to others  n he is blameworthy if he keeps quite, im sure u must have heard the hadith that Sayyidina Muhammad (saw) said that if one of u sees an evil action he should stop it with his hands, if he cant do this then he should try to stop it with his tongue and if he cant do this then atleast he should think bad of it in his heart n this is the weakest form of imaan.

mashaAllah this forum has many ppl with fear of Allah swt n love of their prophet (saw) in their heart, i pray that Allah swt gives us guidance n hikmah to say the right thing in right manner, ameen

wassalam

As Salamu Alaikum

Quote Jenni

If people are angry they should boycott and tell thier governments to stop trade with the offending countries.

I don't think the governments can do anything, here's an excerpt from the link

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=77089&d=31&m=1&y=2006 - http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=77 089&d=31&m=1&y=2006

EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson warned Saudi Arabia that the bloc would take action at the World Trade Organization if the government supported the boycott of Danish goods, the European Commission said.

Mandelson told a Saudi official that any Danish boycott would be a boycott of the European Union. �He made it clear that if the Saudi government had encouraged the boycott, Commissioner Mandelson would regret having to take the issue to the WTO,� said EU spokesman Peter Power.

The Saudi official told Mandelson that the government had not encouraged the boycott.

I really don't understand why the government cannot support the boycott. Does this apply to Saudi Arabia or all Muslim Countries who are members of the WTO

Wa Alaikum Salam

As'Salaamu Alaikum

Brother Rami of all what I've known you to say I respectfully disagree with your following comment:

>>>>dont kid your selfs new muslims cant possibly understand what born muslims are going through it is in our very being, you are in a state between cultures and dont fully comprahend the depth of these insults.

yet you wish to speek for us, yes violence is wrong but unless you love the prophet mohamed (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) more than your own selves your faith is lacking, this is the prophets own words.<<<

First off I love Allah more than I love myself....I love the prophet, I love the message I love Islam...You may think I'm wrong for this but I do not love Our beloved prophet more than myself rather I love God more than my own being. With saying that, what you've said does not justify the destruction of buildings and setting them ablaze because they made fun of the prophet in a caricature.

You mentione that it is "cultural" well any culture who lacks intellectual dialogue as a counter-response to some nagativity is primitive. Since the Arabic culture or any other for that manner is not primitive then I would say that you're wrong in this case brother. You mention that new Muslims would not understand? Well again the part where most born Muslims are wrong and some Arabic decendants is that they feel a sense of "owning Islam" as if it is an inherent cultural thing and and anything depicting some form of disrespect to that is deep rooted. Brother, if I may, Islam is a universal belief not cultural and anything depicting something which is offensively Islamic not only effects the born but the reverted as well.

Salam,

Thanks everyone for the input on boycotting Danish products. May Allah guide us all. Jazakallah.

Peace

Assalamu Alaikum:

As a Muslim, I am offended by any defamation of my religion, the Prophet Mohammed, and Muslims in general. I think what most Westerners do not understand is the violence. I too am confused by this aspect. Violence in this type of situation solves nothing, and in fact gives those in the West so inclined to point their fingers and say: "See how the terrorists, Islamic Fanatics behave..."  I would have perhaps understood more easily a violent reaction to Muslim genocide in the Sudan, Bosnia, Iraq, Palestine... Apparently some Muslims are more offended by the degradation of symbols of Islam than by the degradation of Muslims themselves.

I do agree with the boycotts because I feel that Islam itself is under siege by the West. It may be subtle in some instances, or it may be more overt such as the caricatures, but it definitely exists. All of the assurances of Western governments mean nothing when by their very silence they endorse such behavior. If we as Muslims do not take a stand, it will only get worse.

There are almost 2 billion Muslims in the world. Why should we not say, enough is enough. Asking for basic rights, dignity, and freedom from religious persecution is not wrong. It is our duty. But we must remember that every action we take is a form of dawah. Senseless violence is not the message of Islam that we should want to propagate. But the silent strength of the boycott, and finally letting the world realize that we can unite and have a voice, is an invaluable message. Money makes the world go around, and in the West money talks. If you affect the cash flow, you get the attention. Christian groups have known this for years. That's why they boycott firms, films, and people that they disagree with. It is a powerful weapon in this materialistic society that carries with it alot of power.

I am thinking of something someone said in one of the dozens of articles about this, he said that we didn't think the Muslims would have enough power to hurt us, but apparently they do.

Salam Mishmish,

Mishmish wrote,

"But we must remember that every action we take is a form of dawah. Senseless violence is not the message of Islam that we should want to propagate. But the silent strength of the boycott, and finally letting the world realize that we can unite and have a voice, is an invaluable message. "

Jazakallah. Very good point. May Allah guide us all.

Peace

(Earth_as_One:) "Plans by Iran to publish anti-Semitic holocaust cartoons in the name of free expression are now likely to start a cartoon war."

As I see it, the Danish cartoons, especially those which were, by all accounts, particularly vile, �mysteriously unsourced� and also unpublished, were of themselves anti-Semitic.  Muhammad, son of Ishmael, son of Abraham, son of Shem, was a S[h]emite.  It is unfortunate, in this case, that Japheth (Iran) apparently sees fit to perpetuate the problem.

(Mishmish:) "Apparently some Muslims are more offended by the degradation of symbols of Islam than by the degradation of Muslims themselves."

Characteristically well said.  The symbol is not the thing.

Serv

I will just ask a question 2 muslims:

If there was a big muslim country like Ottoman Empire (with all todays military technicals in this century), dou you think that could be happen such so thinks and much more,?

My 5 cents worth

I don't think boycotting Danish probducts is not a good thing, for one, it is not the danish people or the people that create the businesses, it is not the government people's fault its not even the danish press/media's fault!

It's not even the fault of the danish embassies across the world!

IT IS one media outlet which is at fault, not any other person and besides that one media outlet has apologised but it won't apologise for freedom of expression.

While this boycott is going on it has done damage it has/made over 200 people out of work and already has cost millions lost, for what ???? because of some stupid idiotic person deciding to publish cartoons of the Prophet?? Now the rest of the people both muslims and non muslims have to suffer the fallout ??

Now this buycott also affects your muslim brothers and sisters there in Denmark as it also puts their livelihoods at risks, perhaps some muslims work and had to be let off? Now what, what becomes of them?

I like to know where's the same energy and outrage (and violence not that I condone violence) to the bad treatment and starvations and poverty of your muslim brethren in other parts of the world, I just don't understand? It's awlfully misplaced to me. ALL this outrage and energy over a piece of paper with drawings (yes its of the Prophet adn I know its not allowed in islam but heck there are far more worse pictures out there and some made also by some muslims) and not towards humans that need it, I just cannot find the justifications for it.  Can you?

It's one thing to be and feel insulted/offended and speak or shout about it and jump and up and down, freedom of expression here  but this boycott and violence, the outrage that has spread across is senseless and unjustified, it has already killed few people and injured so many more people ALL because of drawings. And it does not get anyone where.

Greenpeace can do better

I'm gonna show you how far some muslims, imans/cleric will go inciting hate towards some people / west.

The Cartoon Hoax: http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/775 - http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/775  

Now where do you want to direct your anger at ?

I truly believe that some muslims, radicals or extremists are to blame for this incitement of anger and violence and got innocent muslims caught up in it.

Those who see muslims as terrorists and afraid of muslims, I don't blame them really, just look at the image from muslims that they are getting, no one needs words just look at the images of violence, the burning, the flag burning, stone throwing and guns - all coming from (some muslims)

If I didn't know any better, I would probably hate/dislike you guys to

ak_m_f wrote: Colin wrote: candor wrote: I think the boycott is feasible because most (if not all) of the needs of the Muslims (which are currently being satisfied by the Western products) can be satisfied by the Japanese and Korean products. I hope the Japanese or Korean press don't publish anything that Muslims find offensive. Otherwise it could be camel burgers for dinner for the foreseeable future...  ;---) mmmmm camels...

So laughin'

Colin wrote: ak_m_f wrote: but danish cookies are amazing   Muslims should stand firm and set their browsers to not accept Danish cookies......

Laugin'

ak_m_f, yeah, I love danish cookies to, yum   you should see all the tins of cookies in the stores at christmas times

Assalamu Alaikum:

I think that a large part of the outrage is due in part to the fact that this is just the last in a long and never ending series of insults, media misrepresentations, degradations, and attacks against Islam and Muslims. Don't forget, it was only a few months ago that copies of the Quran were being flushed down the toilet. I believe that Muslims as a whole are really tired of it and boycotting is a way to express this.

It may have been one paper that started it all, but numerous papers have since reprinted the caricatures, all under the banner of free speech. But please, see the article below. If the Danish people are truly concerned about the lost jobs, then they should speak up and insist the newspaper give a sincere apology, not just mouth service.

Just yesterday G. W. chastised the Presidents of Iran and Syria for "fueling the protests" yet said nothing about the newspaper that started it all. However, I can guarantee you if it had been an anti-Semetic cartoon something would have been said long ago. There is a serious double standard all around the world, and Islam/Muslim bashing is the last acceptible form of prejudice. If we as Muslims don't stick up for ourselves, who will?

Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons

Gwladys Fouch� and agencies
Monday February 6, 2006


http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1703501,00.html - http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1703501,00. html
Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that have caused a storm of protest throughout the Islamic world, refused to run drawings lampooning Jesus Christ, it has emerged today.
The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny.
In April 2003, Danish illustrator Christoffer Zieler submitted a series
of unsolicited cartoons dealing with the resurrection of Christ to
Jyllands-Posten.
Zieler received an email back from the paper's Sunday editor, Jens
Kaiser, which said: "I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an outcry. Therefore, I will not use them."
The illustrator told the Norwegian daily Dagbladet, which saw the
email: "I see the cartoons as an innocent joke, of the type that my Christian grandfather would enjoy."
"I showed them to a few pastors and they thought they were funny."
He said that he felt Jyllands-Posten rated the feelings of its
Christian readers higher than that of its Muslim readers.
But the Jyllands-Posten editor in question, Mr Kaiser, told
MediaGuardian.co.uk that the case was "ridiculous to bring forward now. It has nothing to do with the Muhammad cartoons.
"In the Muhammad drawings case, we asked the illustrators to do it. I
did not ask for these cartoons. That's the difference," he said.
"The illustrator thought his cartoons were funny. I did not think so.
It would offend some readers, not much but some."
The decision smacks of "double-standards", said Ahmed Akkari, spokesman for the Danish-based European Committee for Prophet Honouring, the umbrella group that represents 27 Muslim organisations that are campaigning for a full apology from Jyllands-Posten.
"How can Jyllands-Posten distinguish the two cases? Surely they must
understand," Mr Akkari added.
Meanwhile, the editor of a Malaysian newspaper resigned over the
weekend after printing one of the Muhammad cartoons that have unleashed a storm of protest across the Islamic world.
Malaysia's Sunday Tribune, based in the remote state of Sarawak, on
Borneo island, ran one of the Danish cartoons on Saturday. It is unclear which one of the 12 drawings was reprinted.
Printed on page 12 of the paper, the cartoon illustrated an article
about the lack of impact of the controversy in Malaysia, a country with a majority Muslim population.
The newspaper apologised and expressed "profound regret over the
unauthorised publication", in a front page statement on Sunday.
"Our internal inquiry revealed that the editor on duty, who was
responsible for the same publication, had done it all alone by himself without authority in compliance with the prescribed procedures as required for such news," the statement said.
The editor, who has not been named, regretted his mistake, apologised and tendered his resignation, according to the statement.
� To contact the MediaGuardian newsdesk email
http://mail.yahoo.com/config/login?/ym/[email protected]&YY=37437&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b - [email protected] or
phone 020 7239 9857

Yes firewall3,

I got the following link that may help.

http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2006-02/09/article01.shtml - http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2006-02/09/article01 .shtml

Peace

As Salamu Alaikum

Double Standard � the Magic words.

Personally I think, we maybe missing something here.

This pictures were printed some time in Sept, why the big uproar now. Deliberate and well planned and it is connected with Iran's nuclear issue, I think.

Just as the invasion of Iraq was well planned, so is this. Only Muslims countries do not have the right possess nuclear arms to defend themselves. No one mentions Israel's nuclear facilities. Americans and Israelis are killing Muslims every day and no one blinks.

This issue with Denmark was well planned so that now that Iran's nuclear issue is in the headlines, we need to be told that Muslims are irresponsible, terrorist and have no right to defend themselves.

Iraq and Afghanistan are already occupied, very soon both Iran and Syria will be occupied, the wealthy Muslim countries are already puppets to Big Daddy and the others don't count.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala bring all Muslims back on to the Path of The Qur'an and Sunnah. Ameen!

Wa Alaikum Salam

Alwardah wrote:   Personally I think, we maybe missing something here. This pictures were printed some time in Sept, why the big uproar now.

Exactly, my sentiments also

Here is something:

Creating Outrage Confused by the wave of protests, threats, boycotts, and attacks against diplomatic facilities that have shaken their idyllic tranquility after the publication of cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed on Jyllands-Posten, the Danes are asking themselves questions. They wonder if an attack will take place in their country, as threatened by various jihadi groups, and if freedom of speech is in jeopardy. But a more immediate question is puzzling some: Why has the outrage of the Muslim world exploded only now, in February, when the cartoons were published last September? At the time of the initial publication, international media had reported news of the blasphemous caricatures, not only in Danish, but also in English. Yet nothing happened, aside from timid protests from the Muslim community of the tiny Scandinavian kingdom. So what is different about the situation now? More than the question, it is the answer that is keeping a good chunk of Denmark's political and cultural elite awake at night. The recent anti-Danish emotional wave coming from the Muslim world, in fact, is far from a spontaneous reaction, but it has been cunningly orchestrated by a knowledgeable insider, a real snake in the grass who has been creeping in Denmark for the last 15 years. Ahmed Abdel Rahman Abu Laban, a 60-year-old Palestinian imam who has been residing in Copenhagen since 1993, has become over the last few years the face of Islam in Denmark, creating his own persona of a moderate cleric who seeks dialogue but who is victimized by the widespread "racism" of the Danes. Despite his poor command of the Danish language, Abu Laban is a frequent guest on Danish television and in meetings with government officials, where he claims to represent the voice of the local Muslim community. Even though part of the establishment has always looked at him with suspicion (Prime Minister Rasmussen has always refused to meet with him), Danish intelligentsia has made him a celebrity � so much of one that even the Washington Post recently profiled him as "one of Denmark's most prominent imams." But Abu Laban's real face has now been revealed. In September, the imam immediately condemned Jyllands-Posten's cartoons and led protests at the local level. Danish politicians and media, busy with local elections, ignored him. But Abu Laban is not the kind of person who gives up easily. After having contacted ambassadors from Muslim countries in Copenhagen, he put together a delegation with the goal of touring the Middle East to "internationalize this issue so that the Danish government would realize that the cartoons were not only insulting to Muslims in Denmark but also to Muslims worldwide," as he explained in an interview with "Islam Online". The delegation met with, among others, Arab League Secretary Amr Moussa, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar Sheikh Mohammad Sayyed Tantawi, and Sunni Islam's most influential scholar, Yusuf al Qaradawi. The delegation showed each of these leaders the 12 cartoons published by Jyllands-Posten, along with others that had never been published by any Danish publication. The new cartoons were every more offensive, as showing the Prophet Mohammed with a pig face or having sexual intercourse with a dog. While the delegation claimed that the differentiation was pointed out to their interlocutors, there is no other evidence, and rumors about the more blasphemous images began to circulate in the Middle East. Moreover, the booklet that was presented by the delegation contained several other lies about the "oppression" of Muslims in Denmark, claiming Muslims do not have the legal right to build mosques and are subjected to pervasive racism. With emotions about the cartoons mounting, Qaradawi, the real brains of the Muslim Brotherhood's international network and a key opinion maker in the Middle East thanks to his weekly show on al Jazeera, attacked Denmark directly, warning that an apology would not be sufficient, and that "a firm stance" should have be taken by the Danish government. As Prime Minister Rasmussen refused to intervene, referring to the cherished tradition of freedom of the press in his country, Qaradawi and his ilk unleashed their propagandistic war against Denmark. Abu Laban, from his mosque in the Copenhagen suburb of N�rrebro, is now happily reaping the fruits of his hard work. But, in a quintessential exercise in taqiya (double-speak), Abu Laban has tried to hide his satisfaction to the Danes. Speaking on Danish television, Abu Laban has wept crocodile tears, condemning the boycott of Danish goods and the other consequences of his actions. Yet, interviewed by al Jazeera, the imam has said just the opposite, praising the outrage of the Muslim world at his adoptive country. So just who is Abu Laban? The Danes are slowly getting a fuller portrait. Friday night, Danish state television DR broadcasted a long report on him and Danes have begun to understand more about the self-proclaimed voice of Islam in Denmark. According to DR, Intelligence documents reveal that Abu Laban has been in close contact for years with members of various terrorist organizations, and in particular with leaders of the Egyptian Gamaa Islamiya. In the beginning of the 1990s, in fact, several leaders of the Gamaa escaped the long arm of the Egyptian mukhabarat and relocated to Europe. Copenhagen became the new hometown of two of the group's leaders, Ayman al Zawahiri, currently serving as Osama bin Laden's right-hand man, and Talaat Fouad Qassimy. >From the quiet of the Scandinavian capital, the men published Al Murabitoun, the Gamaa's official publication. Abu Laban worked as a translator and distributor of the publication, which glorified the killing of Western tourists in Egypt and urged the annihilation of Jews in Palestine. Then Abu Laban worked closely with Said Mansour, a Moroccan man currently charged in Denmark for running a publishing house that distributed jihadi material. All of this is not news to Danish security officials, but now Danes are slowly becoming aware of the facts. And Abu Laban's celebrated celeb status is about history in Denmark. Danes have no more patience for those who preach love in one language and war in another, those who publicly play the role of the victim, demand tolerance and then secretly incite hatred. While much of Europe has been asleep at the wheel, oblivious to the monumental threat radical Islam poses to its future, at least one country is increasing awake. Denmark's first battle is domestic, unmasking the enemy's fifth column inside its borders. As embassies burn, the rest might want to catch on, too. � Lorenzo Vidino is a senior terrorism analyst at the Investigative Project and author of the book Al Qaeda in Europe: The New Battleground of International Jihad. http://nationalreview.com/comment/vidino200602060735.asp - http://nationalreview.com/comment/vidino200602060735.asp - http://nationalreview.com/comment/vidino200602060735.asp

Interesting article Angel,

My heart tells me all this fuss is about giving America the green light to go after Iran.

Some members say it is not right to boycott Danish goods because we are hurting innocent people. I agree, but sanctions were placed on Iraq for so many years and everyone thought it was okay. Why? Aren't Muslims part of the human race? Why the double standard?

Someone laid a trap once again and the Muslims fell into it, this is how I see it. But, then again, on the other hand I don't really understand politics. This is a very confused housewife's opinion.

Alwardah wrote: say it is not right to boycott Danish goods because we are hurting innocent people. I agree, but sanctions were placed on Iraq for so many years and everyone thought it was okay. Why? Aren't Muslims part of the human race? Why the double standard? Someone laid a trap once again and the Muslims fell into it, this is how I see it. But, then again, on the other hand I don't really understand politics. This is a very confused housewife's opinion.

mmmm oil for food. It might have had something to do with Iraq invading Kuwait.  The sanctions were administered by the United Nations not the US as away to get Sadam to retreat.  Later extended to the WOMD because there was a possibility that Sadam could and would would have use them... while now womd have pretty much been squashed the fact that it was a possibility in the first place should be taken into account.  Anyone remember the arms war between Russia and the west?  In the end it turned out Russia was bluffing and were bankrupt.. but they had us thinking they would hit the button. 

Perhaps the Oil for Food program is not the best example, even though many innocents suffered and died. But the defiance of countires against U.N. Sanctions and illegal occupations by countries who get Sanctioned by the U.N. and then completely ignore them, well that's a different double-standard story all together...

I think the double standard towards Muslims and Islam comes into play everyday. Every time a media outlet says Islamist or Islamic Fundamentalist every single Muslim in the world is labeled as a terrorist. I remember watching CNN during the London bombings at a time when there were a number of other bombings around the world. The anchor labeled all of the bombings in countries that were predominantly Muslim, even though they weren't yet sure who did them, Islamist Terrorists. On this same day there was also a bombing in Spain by the Basques, but the anchor called this bombing a political act by the Basque Separatist Movement. All in the same story.

Now, I wonder what made the Basques different? Wasn't their bombing an act of terror? Why weren't they labeled Roman Catholic Terrorists as most of them are Roman Catholic? Why weren't they labeled terrorists at all? The Muslims certainly were. And everytime this happens it hurts billions of innocent Muslims around the world. Everytime it happens it hurts billions of innocent Muslims around the world.

Yet we shouldn't boycott Danish cheese because it might put some innocent people out of work. What about all of the innocent Muslims who have lost their jobs, been religiously profiled by governments, lost their homes, lost their dignity, lost their ability to walk down the street without being harassed or stared at with hostility? I didn't bomb anyone or anything. I've never intentionally hurt anyone in  my life, nor taken part in any act of violence. Who's concerned about me? Who's standing up for me?

Me, me, me, it's all about me?  Seriously though, who marches for the Muslims if we don't march for ourselves?

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=77662&d=12&m=2&y=2006 - http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=77 662&d=12&m=2&y=2006

Salam,

Quote: "Who did we Indians learn this from? Mahatma Gandhi, of course. His challenge to the British Empire began with a boycott of British goods. It is only when he made a bonfire of the colonizer�s cloth did the world�s mightiest empire begin to shiver. It is not too difficult to live without Danish cheese, or even Bang and Olufsen. One would, in fact, like to extend the logic. If you have to buy a European product, buy British. That would be a nice way of saying thank you".

Very useful indeed as far as the need of the hour is concerned.

Peace

Although I'm not going to read all 8 pages of this topic I would like to ask you all a couple things. Why has there not been one mass protests to the USS Cole bombing, multiple embassy bombing and the beheadings all in the name of Islam? Why is it that you are ready to protest, kill and mame people for drawing a couple dumb (not funny at all) cartoons of the phophet in a paper that no one reads? Why did it take months for it to become an issue? When 9/11 first happened I tried to tell my friends that it was just a few bad apples and that we should not judge an entire religon based off the actions of a few(people dancing in the streets of muslim countries). But now that I seen your reactions (or lack of) during the last few years, reactions to a cartoon and even this entire site that is all about hate for americans (read some of the articles on this website) and everything bad that has happened to you is our fault I'm losing my sympathy for Islam real quick. I know there are still millions of good people that follow Islam but no one seems to be standing up saying "stop with the terrorist activity in the name of my religon". Not a single one!!! Has anyone over thought that your problems are not caused by Americans but maybe the repressive regimes that are in power of your countries? Ever notice that why so many go without in your countries while the leaders sit in gold palaces and drive the best of cars. I know it's our fault as it always has been but the way I look at it, we have only been here for a couple hundred years yet you all have been year for thousands and still can't seem to get anything right. Sorry but when I see you guys condem the beheadings and bombers attacking weddings and such I will condem the drawings.

Edit: One more thing, why no protests when your papers make fun of the Jews or Jesus? Kind of a double standard thing is it not?

ops154: One more thing, why no protests when your papers make fun of the Jews or Jesus? Kind of a double standard thing is it not?

We Muslims believe in all Messengers of Allah (God ), therefore, don't mock at any one of them. It is an important part of our faith that we respect them. Can you give any example where Muslims made fun of Jesus ( peace be upon him ).

I haven't found a single post or article here written by Muslims that condones violence or terrorism in the name of Islam. It is boycott that is being considered here. Can you show me one such article that condones violence?

Peace

ops154 wrote: Although I'm not going to read all 8 pages of this topic I would like to ask you all a couple things. Why has there not been one mass protests to the USS Cole bombing, multiple embassy bombing and the beheadings all in the name of Islam? Why is it that you are ready to protest, kill and mame people for drawing a couple dumb (not funny at all) cartoons of the phophet in a paper that no one reads? Why did it take months for it to become an issue? When 9/11 first happened I tried to tell my friends that it was just a few bad apples and that we should not judge an entire religon based off the actions of a few(people dancing in the streets of muslim countries). But now that I seen your reactions (or lack of) during the last few years, reactions to a cartoon and even this entire site that is all about hate for americans (read some of the articles on this website) and everything bad that has happened to you is our fault I'm losing my sympathy for Islam real quick. I know there are still millions of good people that follow Islam but no one seems to be standing up saying "stop with the terrorist activity in the name of my religon". Not a single one!!! Has anyone over thought that your problems are not caused by Americans but maybe the repressive regimes that are in power of your countries? Ever notice that why so many go without in your countries while the leaders sit in gold palaces and drive the best of cars. I know it's our fault as it always has been but the way I look at it, we have only been here for a couple hundred years yet you all have been year for thousands and still can't seem to get anything right. Sorry but when I see you guys condem the beheadings and bombers attacking weddings and such I will condem the drawings.     Edit: One more thing, why no protests when your papers make fun of the Jews or Jesus? Kind of a double standard thing is it not?

I think you will find the cartoons are just the straw that broke the camels back.. what we are seeing is all the anger and injustic spewing forth through years of playing victims...

And as one blogger put it eloquently

�And why are more Muslims apparently outraged over some goofy cartoons that were drawn thousands of miles away than they are about beheadings and suicide bombings that occur in their own backyard?�

Why? Because they are all hypocrites.

Ofcourse this "distraction" theory could play a part... but again it is just a bloggers theory.

http://actsofaggression.blogspot.com/ - http://actsofaggression.blogspot.com/

Thursday, February 09, 2006

peacemaker wrote: ops154: One more thing, why no protests when your papers make fun of the Jews or Jesus? Kind of a double standard thing is it not? We Muslims believe in all Messengers of Allah (God ), therefore, don't mock at any one of them. It is an important part of our faith that we respect them. Can you give any example where Muslims made fun of Jesus ( peace be upon him ). I haven't found a single post or article here written by Muslims that condones violence or terrorism in the name of Islam. It is boycott that is being considered here. Can you show me one such article that condones violence? Peace

It's not the stories the condone violence that I'm talking about, it the lack of the condeming stories. It's not only about this site, this site's articles are more about bashing(blaming) the US even though our government condemed the drawings. To see examples of this then go to the main page and pick a story.  I'm talking about the lack of protests against violence in the name of Islam. There are no mass protests against these things, only about some dumb cartoon drawings. Tell me this, if mahammad was walking the streets today what would he be protesting? Would it be a cartoon of him, beheadings of civilians in his name or dictatores that rule his people? I'm guessing it wouldn't be the cartoons. I ask christians the same thing when they are going against everything their god stands for, What would Jesus do if he was here. No one ever seems to get it though.

Edit: Yes I have seen many cartoons on arabnews.com. It's supposed to be a Saudi paper translated into English.

ops154: Yes I have seen many cartoons on arabnews.com. It's supposed to be a Saudi paper translated into English.

You mean the cartoons mocked at Jesus (pbuh )??? Can you please give me link to that? Otherwise I would consider it as your attempt to defame Muslims and Islam.

Peace

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

For condemning the cartoons we have made an big meeting in Istanbul where some of you will know the square of Beyazit beside of Big Bazaar...it was really and good meeting that we have truly stated how a protest will be made in care inside the rules of Islam rather than firing the buildings...Alhamdulilah.....

peacemaker wrote: ops154: Yes I have seen many cartoons on arabnews.com. It's supposed to be a Saudi paper translated into English. You mean the cartoons mocked at Jesus (pbuh )??? Can you please give me link to that? Otherwise I would consider it as your attempt to defame Muslims and Islam. Peace

Well since I don't control that site or it's DAILY CARTOONS I can't direct you to one today. But keep looking at the site link I gave you http://www.arabnews.com - www.arabnews.com and each day they have new cartoons. Today it may not but within a week I'm sure it will as it has in the past.

Is that the only thing from what I posted that you are willing to talk about? Nothing about the actual violence?

ops154: Is that the only thing from what I posted that you are willing to talk about? Nothing about the actual violence?

I was actually pointing to your flawed statement made without due research as to what Islam stands for. Read my posts and many other posts that do not condone violence. Does all  this make headline anyway so the world could see?

By the way, none of more than 1.5 billion Muslims on this planet will ever mock at Jesus ( peace be upon him ) as you complain. You have no proof. If ever you have a proof, let me know that.

Peace

Is this what you mean?...(Admin: deleted see guidelines)

peacemaker wrote: ops154: Is that the only thing from what I posted that you are willing to talk about? Nothing about the actual violence? I was actually pointing to your flawed statement made without due research as to what Islam stands for. Read my posts and many other posts that do not condone violence. Does all  this make headline anyway so the world could see? By the way, none of more than 1.5 billion Muslims on this planet will ever mock at Jesus ( peace be upon him ) as you complain. You have no proof. If ever you have a proof, let me know that. Peace

Still no one  can talk about anything other than cartoons of Jesus or Mahommad? Is that all Muslims care about, cartoons? I didn't start off by trying to defame anyone, I'm just trying to find answers. I thought muslims were supposed to educate the un-educated about Islam. Am I wrong? I'm trying to learn about your thinking and why it's so offesive to see Muhommad with a bomb on his head but not a terrorists with a bomb on his belt in the name of Muhommad? Let me say it now, although I have seen cartoons on the website I gave it doesn't have them there now so I can't show proof. My bad, how about we discuss beheadings, murders, suicide bombs or do you need proof of that too? I'm sure I can find it somewhere.

All I want to do is get some understanding here but if you all are only going to talk about the cartoons and nothing else then I guess it's pointless. I hope no one takes what I have posted as an insult as that is not what I'm trying to do. Can anyone at least answer what Mahommad would do in this situation (cartoons)? Would he even care or would he say something alone the lines of "Do not kill those who have drawn these but try to educate what my true word is"

firewall3 wrote: ketchup is a self-admitting racist. so i guess, that's expected. i don't want to dissapoint myself, to give him/her higher expectations.

I never said I was racist, what I said was that I come from what was up until aprox 20 years ago a predominantly white country and one of our major trades was slavery.. if that makes me racist then so be it.  Personally I don't care if someone is black, pink, green or, red.  What I do care about is the erosion of our culture because multicilturism clearly isnt working.

As for the news article regarding the arab press, someone asked for proof, I googled and that was top of the list.

ops154, it's offensive because, while real terrorists do wear bombs (some even use high-tech fighter plans, with illegal white phosphorus bombs), BUT Muhammad (PBUH) never wear, strive or link himself with anything as such. the Prophet denounced terrorism, Islam is not a terrorist religion, and muslims are not suicide bomebrs. it's a grave libel to depict the Prophet of Islam & the Islamic religion as such, because it's simply not true. people have depicted Osama as a terrorist, Saddam even, or his henchmen, muslims will pass it.  but when you slander the Prophet of Islam, the messenger of God which recited the Quran to muslims, it's a grave injury for every muslim, whatever sects we might be. we muslims have openly condemn terrorism. we fight it even before 911. but westerners have a pre-occupation that we feeds it. we don't. when you get pass your bubble, and understand the Islamic religion denounces terrorism, maybe you can see how affected we are when others kept blaming us for something we did no wrong. again, Muhammad (PBUH) denounced terrorism, and never played a part in it. to have our Prophet gravely slandered unfairly, all muslims have the right to defend him, as he is innocent of all the insults. the Islamic religion, is free of all teh insutls. may God show truth, amen.

I think the point ops is trying to make is that although muslims condem terrorism there is very little evidence of it.  The muslim community is secretive and no one will deny that they keep themselves to themselves.. so from the outside it does appear that there is nothing happening.  Ops does make a good point though, yes you condem violence and terrorism yet you aren't vocal enough about it.  Instead on screaming in the streets about cartoons so the whole world can see... how about screaming on the streets in outrage over how terrorism blighting islam so the middle east can see.  If you all united as one then maybe mountains can be moved... all we see is you all uniting in anger against us.

firewall3 wrote: it's not our voice not vocal. it's your media that has been silencing our voice. when your media drops their biased attitude towards presenting muslims, then maybe you can hear us.

Then make yourselves heard.. it recently took the rantings of a guy stirring religious hatred to get you guys on the street... my initial stance stands, if you really cared you would have already been on the streets defending yourselves against those that are using your name for malicious means.. you haven't so what kind of message is that sending out to the rest of the world?

firewall3 wrote: it's not our voice not vocal. it's your media that has been silencing our voice. when your media drops their biased attitude towards presenting muslims, then maybe you can hear us.

We Americans know that our mainstream media is biased, it's all about what sells but the fact remains that we can and do get information from places other than the TV. Most muslim countries have state run media, which no muslim ever questions yet you question our FREE press. Free press means they can wright almost anything they want to. Hense free press. We as readers have the choice to not read the crap they are putting out. I don't watch my daily dose of Fox news or any other tv news program for that matter (maybe just the local news and weather). When it comes to national or international stories I go to the internet where i can get both sides of the argument and I can find the truth usually between the two extreme sides. Neither side gives you all the facts.  Many muslim nations (and others) don't have that choice, they listen to what the religous icons and government officials tell them too and that is the only information they get. I can admit that American tv does spin a lot of stories but it's still some of the most open in the world.

trust me, if you all protested the bombings and beheadings like you are the cartoon, the world would listen and it would be on every American television across this great nation.

Ketchup wrote: Then make yourselves heard.. it recently took the rantings of a guy stirring religious hatred to get you guys on the street... my initial stance stands, if you really cared you would have already been on the streets defending yourselves against those that are using your name for malicious means.. you haven't so what kind of message is that sending out to the rest of the world?

Get a satellite: Muslims have been speaking out, protesting, and bending over backwards to be heard. No one in the non-Muslim world wants to listen until there is violence, then all of the self-righteous media pundits in the West can sit back and say: "See had badly they act, we've been telling you they're all murdering fanatics." and all the good moral people who are not Muslims can justify their hatred, distrust, and the killing.

As for the news article regarding the arab press, someone asked for proof, I googled and that was top of the list.

peacemaker wrote: As for the news article regarding the arab press, someone asked for proof, I googled and that was top of the list. Those who mock at any Messenger of Allah are not Muslims, no matter where such people live. I was saying that none of more than 1.5 billion Muslims on this planet would ever mock at Jesus ( peace be upon him ). It is important part of our faith. Yes, I agree that we should have been much more vocal before this cartoon crisis in order to convey the Message of true spirit of Islam. May be this event will change the situation of Muslims, and they will learn to spread the true Message of Islam to the Mankind without violence, without hurting innocent civilians, without damaging property. May Allah guide us all to learn His true Message. Peace

I admire your optimism but I can see very little changing.

ops154 wrote: We Americans know that our mainstream media is biased, it's all about what sells but the fact remains that we can and do get information from places other than the TV. Most muslim countries have state run media, which no muslim ever questions yet you question our FREE press. Free press means they can wright almost anything they want to. Hense free press. We as readers have the choice to not read the crap they are putting out. I don't watch my daily dose of Fox news or any other tv news program for that matter (maybe just the local news and weather). When it comes to national or international stories I go to the internet where i can get both sides of the argument and I can find the truth usually between the two extreme sides. Neither side gives you all the facts.  Many muslim nations (and others) don't have that choice, they listen to what the religous icons and government officials tell them too and that is the only information they get. I can admit that American tv does spin a lot of stories but it's still some of the most open in the world.

I guess you are assuming that no Muslim has access to the internet or satellite television? Bush has banned Al Jazeera from airing on conventioanl television in the U.S.  Is that open and free?

It may come as a surprise to many, but Muslims can make up their own minds about things. In fact, many islamic leaders have spoken out against the rioting and violence, but that's not good fodder for the headlines.

Mishmish wrote: Ketchup wrote: Then make yourselves heard.. it recently took the rantings of a guy stirring religious hatred to get you guys on the street... my initial stance stands, if you really cared you would have already been on the streets defending yourselves against those that are using your name for malicious means.. you haven't so what kind of message is that sending out to the rest of the world? Get a satellite: Muslims have been speaking out, protesting, and bending over backwards to be heard. No one in the non-Muslim world wants to listen until there is violence, then all of the self-righteous media pundits in the West can sit back and say: "See had badly they act, we've been telling you they're all murdering fanatics." and all the good moral people who are not Muslims can justify their hatred, distrust, and the killing.

I have satellite, I see whats going on... what I dont see is anything constructive.

Mishmish wrote: Ketchup wrote: Then make yourselves heard.. it recently took the rantings of a guy stirring religious hatred to get you guys on the street... my initial stance stands, if you really cared you would have already been on the streets defending yourselves against those that are using your name for malicious means.. you haven't so what kind of message is that sending out to the rest of the world? Get a satellite: Muslims have been speaking out, protesting, and bending over backwards to be heard. No one in the non-Muslim world wants to listen until there is violence, then all of the self-righteous media pundits in the West can sit back and say: "See had badly they act, we've been telling you they're all murdering fanatics." and all the good moral people who are not Muslims can justify their hatred, distrust, and the killing.

Actually I have seen a couple stories and interviews with people who say this is not what the religion is about yet NO MASS PROTESTS in muslim nations. Instead we get shown the images of Muslims dancing in the streets when 3000+ Americans are killed by cowards. But like I said, we have the internet and we can access any site in the world so please point me to a link were it is showing images of mass protests against beheadings and bombings of civilians.

I never said I was racist, what I said was that I come from what was up until aprox 20 years ago a predominantly white country and one of our major trades was slavery.. if that makes me racist then so be it.  Personally I don't care if someone is black, pink, green or, red.  What I do care about is the erosion of our culture because multicilturism clearly isnt working.

Ketsup clearly 20 years ago (although you did approximate) there was no slavery, it was outlawed long before that but I understand what you were trying to convey. As the other sister has mentioned you are aclearly a racist. Any one who says "Clearly multiculturalism isn't working" and also saying after that "The erosion of OUR culture" is not only ethnocentric but RACIST!

The cartoon protrayed again let me reiterate is offensive but let me remind others that there were catroons I've seen made by Iraninan news paper and other media oulets that made fun of Jews and Christians. I personally believe that this portrayal does not hurt none of us not even the Muslim family but it shows the ignorance of people. I surely don't blame the danes, the food products nor the media. How can you blame someone who is blinded by their own ignorance? It is as if you would blame the mute for not being able to speak!

As Allah in the Qur'an has mentioned they are "blind" let them wallow in their ignorance because the last laugh is with God. I just think because of the high emotions in our world today its poor taste for any public media to make a funny cartoon about a prophet of Islam especially in light of  what has been happening. It not only furthers the gap but gives other so-called Mulims a reason to terrorize and validate the ignorant opinion. Yes perhaps this is my "western" view but it pretty much speaks for itself

1. Fiqh Council of North America issued a Fatwa against terrorism, stating that people who commit it in the name of Islam were "criminals, not `martyrs."' http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/fiqh_council_of_north_america_issues_fatwa_against_terrorism/ - ref
2. Leading clerics in Saudi Arabia have issued a Fatwa, stating terror attacks are serious criminal acts. the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Shaykh Abd al-Aziz bin Abdallah Aal al-Shaykh, said "These acts have nothing to do with jihad for the sake of God". (note: Riyadh, SA has been striked by triple suicide attacks) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3157493.stm - ref
3. Renowned Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced terrorism, saying "I categorically go against a committed Muslim's embarking on such attacks. Islam never allows a Muslim to kill the innocent and the helpless" http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article25.shtml - ref
4. Leading Muslim scholars meeting in Amman Conference banned killing in the name of Islam. King Abdullah II denounced all kinds of religious extremism. http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=8831 - ref
   
5. OIC Mecca Summit, statement "How can they (terrorists) speak and act for such perverted ideas entrenched as they are in ignorance, isolationism, hatred, and bloodletting?...we are also called upon to redouble and orchestrate international efforts to combat terrorism" http://www.saudi-us-relations.org/fact-book/oic/mecca-declaration.html - ref
6. The International Counter-terrorism Conference, affirmed that terrorism continually threatens peace, security and stability, adding that there is no justification for terrorist acts which are always condemned. International Center for Combating Terrorism plan was accepted. http://www.saudinf.com/main/y7850.htm - ref

Constructive to whom?  In the West we see images of rioting Muslims, in the Arab world they see images of bloody bombed Iraqi children and Palestinians' homes being razed to the ground. Who's right, who's wrong?

What most of us Westerners are missing is that it's not just the caricatures that have caused this level of anger. It is just the last insult in a loooooooooooooooooooooong history of insult and injury.

Ops154: When someone goes into a convenience store in your neighborhood and guns down the clerk working there, do YOU go on the evening news and apologise for the killer's actions? Do you personally apologise to everyone in the state where you live who has been a victim of crime? If a Baptist goes out and rapes a child, are all Baptists confronted by the media and forced to explain why and say sorry?

Of course not, yet for some convoluted reason all Americans and Europeans believe that it is every Muslims responsibility to apologise continuously for the actions of a few. This is not expected of any other group, race, religion, or country, so why then do you expect it of Muslims?

Muslims have condemned every act of terrorism, every act of violence, and done so publicly over and over again. Yet it is still not enough. It will never be enough because you don't want it to be.

Mishmish wrote: ops154 wrote: We Americans know that our mainstream media is biased, it's all about what sells but the fact remains that we can and do get information from places other than the TV. Most muslim countries have state run media, which no muslim ever questions yet you question our FREE press. Free press means they can wright almost anything they want to. Hense free press. We as readers have the choice to not read the crap they are putting out. I don't watch my daily dose of Fox news or any other tv news program for that matter (maybe just the local news and weather). When it comes to national or international stories I go to the internet where i can get both sides of the argument and I can find the truth usually between the two extreme sides. Neither side gives you all the facts.  Many muslim nations (and others) don't have that choice, they listen to what the religous icons and government officials tell them too and that is the only information they get. I can admit that American tv does spin a lot of stories but it's still some of the most open in the world. I guess you are assuming that no Muslim has access to the internet or satellite television? Bush has banned Al Jazeera from airing on conventioanl television in the U.S.  Is that open and free? It may come as a surprise to many, but Muslims can make up their own minds about things. In fact, many islamic leaders have spoken out against the rioting and violence, but that's not good fodder for the headlines.

No station has been banned by bush, if so please show proof. The reason we don't get it here is not many Americans speak arabic so until they start to translate it we have no need for Al Jazeera. I have seen and heard the leaders on our news stations say just that, YET no one seems to of listened in the muslim nations. Has anyone thought that since it was printed in a Egyptian paper and no one said anything and the fact that it took 3 months before anyone seemed to have a problem with it is possibly caused by your own governments in the middle east. Maybe they would rather keep you mad at the US (which some are blaming yet we are not the ones who printed it)instead of looking at home to find the problem. I'll admit that my government has done a lot of bad things in it's time and I wish some of it could be taken back but it can't. What we can do is move forward, stop blaming everyone else for our problems and look to the future. Just like with Palastine and Israel, both blame each side yet no one looks at themselves and says "well maybe I should just stop". Now both sides are to the point were it may never become stable over there because both sides refuse to listen to the others point. Just like it may sound with me that I'm blaming the muslims for everything but actually I'm trying to admit that America is not perfect, never has been and never will be I would just like to see some muslims accepting their part in the problems.