People like Dr. Tariq Ramadan never learn lesson from their own mistakes. Even after banned from entering into US to join his post at an American University under the pressure of his long-time friend � the Zionist-Jew intellectual Dr. Bernard Lewis.

The West has never stopped its racism or bigotry against Islam, Prophet Muhammad and Muslims since the �Dawn of Islam� 1400 years ago. After the collapse of Russian Empire the �Cold War paranoia� has been replaced by Islamophobia, which gone to its zenith after the September 11, 2001 tragedy � for which Muslims were blamed without any proof that could stand in the court of law.

Since then, every Muslim is now regarded as a potential terrorist, a racism promoted by western governments under the pressure of Zionist lobby and Jewish and secularist academia, which never tire of lecturing others about democracy, freedom and equality. While most Muslims are appalled at such blatant racism there is a tiny group among them, who can never show enough gratitude for being allowed to live in the West. The more they�re insulted, the lower they stoop; they display what late Malcolm X (Malik Shahbazz) called the �House Slaves� mentally, identifying completely with the slave master.

Such people make no secret of the fact that they have no desire to live by Islamic tenets, even if they were born Muslims. For them Islam is outdated, and they would like it to undergo a �reformation� as Judaism and Christianity has � apparently ignorant of the fact that Islam�s historical experience is very different. There is no Church or Rabbism in Islam, so it has no dogma; Muslims have not perpetrated pogroms or indulged in witch huntings which were common in Europe at the Zenith of Judo-Christianity�s power.

These people, however, ignore a simple historical fact; colonialists have no permanent friends, only permanent interests; they have little use for such a slave mentality, especially when they know that the �house slaves� are a tiny minority of the colonized people

Islam has the regenerative power to revive itself from within. It�s not a �fashion� like Judaism or Christianity that needs to be �changed, updated, or dyed� now and then.

Assalamu alaikum,

Yes, akhi, I myself have come to the conclusion that the only path for Muslims in the west is Hijra. I am preparing mine; please make dua for me that I may accomplish it Insha'Allah.

4:97 When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "weak and oppressed Were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! -

Yusuf. wrote: ....Yes, akhi, I myself have come to the conclusion that the only path for Muslims in the west is Hijra. I am preparing mine; please make dua for me that I may accomplish it Insha'Allah.

I am affraid that would be fulfilling the dreams of the Zionist and Christian Right facists. Allah (swt) is the Lord and Creator of this Universe and as a Muslims - it belongs to us all.

And 'Hijra' to which Muslim nation-state? Most of those states are rule by worst 'House Slaves'. Please take my advice and stay away from most Arab countries - even if you're an Arab. No offence.

The only alternative for practicing Muslims living in the West is to do what the other political movement, such as, women's and worker's right did in the early 20th century. Well they can do even better if they don't mind learning some 'Jewish tricks, such as AIPAC and ADL.

Wa Salaam. 

Walaikum assalam,

I understand your position, akhi, particularly concerning the puppet governments in the Dar al-Islam. However, there are some very serious ramifications for staying in the west. First and foremost, if one lives and works in the United States one is compelled to pay income taxes, the majority of which supports America's murderous conduct both in and outside of the Dar al-Islam. I cannot find any way to justify this.

As for political organization, one must always seek allies outside one's own cause to obtain enough political clout to achieve any success. This requires alliance with the kuffar which is prohibited (3:28 and elsewhere).

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on these two issues Insha'Allah.

I wonder, if all Muslims in the west did Hijra, who would be left here to set a good example?  Who would be left here to show, by the way we live and behave, that there is another way of life?  Who would be left here to bring more into the fold of Islam?

Perhaps there is a reason why Allah has led so many Muslims to the west?

Peace, ummziba.

Israfil wrote: Funny, why and why do you brothers insist on trying to prove that American and Israel proimotes racism? This is nothing new and nothing arguing for. Again I posted a forum regarding racism and false applications based on stigmas and stereotypes in "racism in the Muslim community." Ho can we Muslims cry about racism and discrimination when we have it in our own community? How many times should I say me being African-American and Muslim is no badge of honor in Saudi Arabia because I would receive the same amount of racism as an African-American who lived in America in the 1800's so what are you guys talking about? Let's quite the blame game and start focusing on the community.

Assalamu alaikum,

Where in my posts do I say America and Israel promote racism?

ummziba wrote: I wonder, if all Muslims in the west did Hijra, who would be left here to set a good example?  Who would be left here to show, by the way we live and behave, that there is another way of life?  Who would be left here to bring more into the fold of Islam? Perhaps there is a reason why Allah has led so many Muslims to the west? Peace, ummziba.

Muslims are allowed to spend limited time in non-Muslim lands to perform dua. However, this is the other side of the issue: is it better to support the kuffar's wars through taxes in order to spread the message of Islam or reject them completely? I don't have a satisfying answer. But in my personal case, I have decided on hijra Insha'Allah.

Israfil wrote: Funny, why and why do you brothers insist on trying to prove that American and Israel proimotes racism? This is nothing new and nothing arguing for. Again I posted a forum regarding racism and false applications based on stigmas and stereotypes in "racism in the Muslim community." Ho can we Muslims cry about racism and discrimination when we have it in our own community? How many times should I say me being African-American and Muslim is no badge of honor in Saudi Arabia because I would receive the same amount of racism as an African-American who lived in America in the 1800's so what are you guys talking about? Let's quite the blame game and start focusing on the community.

First of all � You�re trying to compare lemon with mango. The very foundation of both the US and Israel is based on racism, occupation and genocide of non-White people out which Africans were a minority. The European settlers in America eliminated between 150-200 million Native Americans, while the European Jewish settlers are currently applying a similar barbarism against the nine million Native Muslim and Christian Palestinian.

When it comes to the western past and present history racism and slavery don�t need any stereotyping. If that is the case than top Africans like Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela and Bishop Tutu would not have called the US a racist and Israel an apartheid state.

Second � There is no use in picking on Saudi Arabia, because even if you, as an �Afro-America Muslim� have gone to Barbados, Nigeria or Zambia, or Jamaica for that matter � you could face similar or even worse discrimination. Why, because it�s part of human nature and some people cannot get rid of it.

Third � Both Judaism and Christianity � being national or tribal religions � preach racism. For example, both religion came to preach God�s word to Jews; one has its name after the land the occupied, while the other is known after the name of its so-called �founder�.

Fourth � The racism in the US did not go away after 1800s, as you falsely mentions. It still exists in the US in various shapes. For example, less than 10% of White �Christian churches has missed mass of White and Black � while the greatest racism against the Blacks still comes from the Jews in America. If you like to confirm � be my guest and call someone at the Nation of Islam headquarter.

Peace.

ummziba wrote: I wonder, if all Muslims in the west did Hijra, who would be left here to set a good example?  Who would be left here to show, by the way we live and behave, that there is another way of life?  Who would be left here to bring more into the fold of Islam? Perhaps there is a reason why Allah has led so many Muslims to the west? Peace, ummziba.

I agree. And the glad tidding are already showing the sign. Islam is not the fastest growing religion in both North America and Europe - Muslims have already become the largest religious minorities in the US, Canada and France. And that's the very reason behind the current 'Islamophobia' in the West. and the surprising part is that the conversion has more than doubled since the September 11, 2001, which was blamed on Muslims without any solid proof.

I think in all countries in the world, most people view a different race or religion with arrogance.

I think the Jews and the Muslims complain to much about how they are persecuted and bullied! Most people who have an alien religion and live in a country that doesn't practice it will experiance some form of hate.

If a Muslim moved to a town in Alabama - and an English Practising Christian moved to a village in Saudi Arabia, both would experiance some tension and hate!

The one thing people have to remember if their practising a religion, especially a monethestic religion is that there is a GOD. So if there is a God, then trust him, live your life with no hate and Don't worry about it. Lifes to short!

Many people are perseucted for their beleifs especially minority groups in foreign countries. This is the nature of the Majority of people in the world. For instance, If I lived in a village in Easter Turkey, saudi arabia or Iran and went to church with a small group of people, we would stand out from everyone and would be treated bad.

ChrisNo1 wrote: .....If a Muslim moved to a town in Alabama - and an English Practising Christian moved to a village in Saudi Arabia, both would experiance some tension and hate!

First - I can understand the problem with a Muslim, but why Christians of the same color would hate each other in Alabama?

Second - Muslims don't live in just one country run by western puppets - They are scattered in 153 countries (Approx.).

Third - There are 54,000 western Christians are employed by an American-Saudi joint oil-venture (ARAMCO), who are far better payed and treated than the other foreign Muslims. And I can assure you those 54,000 Christians do live in Saudi Arabia and not in the neighbouring Islamic Iran. 

[Quote}The one thing people have to remember if their practising a religion, especially a monethestic religion is that there is a GOD. So if there is a God, then trust him, live your life with no hate and Don't worry about it. Lifes to short![/Quote]

NOT 'a God' - but ONE God.

As a Muslim - I got no problem with then.

Peace.

Rehmat wrote: The European settlers in America eliminated between 150-200 million Native Americans,

Huh? Where do you get this? The several historians I've read put the decreased native population between 1 and 12 million (the big number being Ward Churchills). There simply weren't that many and they were sparsely populated. Historians also figure 75% to 90% died from diseases against which they had no immunity: smallpox, syphilis, etc. There WERE many cases of government and citizen murder and betrayal and malfeasance. Discrimination and prejudice were common, much like dhimmitude. But there was no genocide, as defined by international conventions. Doesn't make it any less horrible, however.

If you're interested in this subject check out: http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html - http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html

Second � There is no use in picking on Saudi Arabia, because even if you, as an �Afro-America Muslim� have gone to Barbados, Nigeria or Zambia, or Jamaica for that matter � you could face similar or even worse discrimination. Why, because it�s part of human nature and some people cannot get rid of it.

Discrimination elsewhere doesn't excuse Saudis or anyone else.

Third � Both Judaism and Christianity � being national or tribal religions � preach racism. For example, both religion came to preach God�s word to Jews; one has its name after the land the occupied, while the other is known after the name of its so-called �founder�.

Your assertion is not supported by your premises.

F

fezziwig wrote: Huh? Where do you get this? The several historians I've read put the decreased native population between 1 and 12 million�

The word �Huh� is normally used by those who cannot face the truth. It�s a very common �word� among the ADL propagandists on websites. However, I am surprised that you believe that there were 1-12 million Natives � which is much more than that idiot (Alvin M. Josephy Jr.), who in his book �American in 1492� coined the famous pharase: the continents we know as the Americas stood empty of mankind and its works�. The �Midwife of Zionism�, Theodor Herzl was very happy to apply this pharase, which has become the cornerstone of the Israeli fascism: [Palestine: A land without people for the people (Jews) with no land � ignoring the fact that there existed 700,000 Native Palestinians when these unwanted European invaded that country.

For your �enlightenment� I suggest you buy one of these books:

1. �African Presence in Early America�, by Ivan Van Sertima
2. �The New Internationalist History of the World�
3. �Deeper Roots�, by Dr. Abdullah Hakim Quick.

As far your �link� is concerned � If I keep believing what the Zionists� (Mossad, CIA, etc.) propagandist throw on me � We would have found more WMDs in Iraq than they have in Israel � right?

Discrimination elsewhere doesn't excuse Saudis or anyone else.

Are you saying that since a small group of Russian Jews run drug and prostitution Mafia in the US � it�s okey for every Jew to get involved in these �profitable trades�?

Your assertion about Judaism & Christianity) is not supported by your premises

Do you your Bible or Talmud handy? Check it out:

Matthew 10:23; 15:24; 15:26; 19:28; 1 Samuel 25:32; I kings 1:48; 1 Chronicles 16:36; Psalms 72:18, and so on.

A little knowledge is very dangerous thing.

Assalamu alaikum,

A good study of the phenomenon akhi Sheikh Shariff describes is:

Postmodernism and the Other: The New Imperialism of Western Culture, by Ziauddin Sardar. Pluto Press, 1998. 

Israfil wrote: Rehmat so Arab countries are not at fault for bigotry and racism? please answer

No problem. I am here to teach the ignorants of their own history.

If the Arabs have been practicing bigotry and racism - Why you think they 'liberated' Jews in Spain (711 CE), and then in Palestine (1186 CE)?

And I would not mention 'skullcap' this time.

Rehmat wrote: For your �enlightenment� I suggest you buy one of these books:   �African Presence in Early America�, by Ivan Van Sertima �The New Internationalist History of the World� �Deeper Roots�, by Dr. Abdullah Hakim Quick.

Quick searches on Google suggest that these books are merely about blacks and muslims in the Americas before Colombus. Nothing about Native genocide.

As far your �link� is concerned � If I keep believing what the Zionists� (Mossad, CIA, etc.) propagandist throw on me � We would have found more WMDs in Iraq than they have in Israel � right?

fezziwig wrote: Quick searches on Google suggest that these books are merely about blacks and muslims in the Americas before Colombus. Nothing about Native genocide.

Do you know the definition of 'Native'? Based on this dumb logic - only the white and non-Muslims could be 'Natives'!

And what your Google said about'Deeper Roots'? Doesn't it mention in the first chapter the same figures I quoted in the first place?

Are you saying the HNN article is written by Mosad? And what does that have to do with WMDs and Iraq?

Is the US court accept a proven liar as a genuine witness? It could be in Israel, but I am not sure about that.

Rehmat wrote: Do you know the definition of 'Native'? Based on this dumb logic - only the white and non-Muslims could be 'Natives'!

Non sequitor.

And what your Google said about'Deeper Roots'? Doesn't it mention in the first chapter the same figures I quoted in the first place?

Rehmat said:

"If the Arabs have been practicing bigotry and racism - Why you think they 'liberated' Jews in Spain (711 CE), and then in Palestine (1186 CE)?"

First off the in the Ummayad dynasty the Arabs you mentioned so-called liberated the Jews intellectually but it did not stop the Arabs as well as the moors from ridiculing the Jews for their belief, and unfortunately its sad to say that if the Jews didn't convert to Islam they suffered more ridicule. But in such an intellectual period that is foreshadowed by the ignorance of man this has become the apparent in history.

I think you have forgotten the Sundanese Africans who also suffered under Arab terror. Or have you forgotton the Africans in Sauid Arabia who were also serving as slaves and still occuring today....Please dont give me that crap that Arab Muslim countries are any better. Last time I checked history the Saudi police let 3 girls burn in a school because they weren't wearing Hijab....

fezziwig wrote: Yusuf. wrote: fez, I followed that link and the page lists a blog by daniel pipes as one of its featured links. you yourself know what kind of reputation pipes has among muslims. what other reaction would you expect? Guilt by association, Yusuf? I expected better. The same website has links to Matt Yglesias, Juan Cole, Josh Marshall, etc., but maybe they're poison to muslims, too. You tell me. Pipes is a severe critic of muslims, just as the others are (often) severe critics of US policy, but all of them are articulate and informative and it's common in US websites to group disparate views together for contrast and fairness. If Pipes is poison and every website that links to Pipes is poison and every website that links to them is poison, then pretty soon the whole internet is offlimits. Censorship doesn't work. F

yes, I understand your point; on the internet everything leads to everything else. but a site that lists pipes as a featured link is quite different than a site from which you can eventually reach pipes. you know that as well as I do.

would you try to persuade a jewish audience by citing an article that lists louis farrakhan as one of its featured links? the fact is the entire Islamic world considers daniel pipes one of its main enemies. maybe you don't agree. fine. and maybe the islamic world is wrong to see pipes in this light. fine again. and maybe the point the article you cite is valid. fine too. but no muslim is going to go to that site and bother to read the article once they see pipes' name. I won't; pipes listed me as a sympathiser with terrorists because I criticized his "campus watch" site. maybe he's articulate, but he's a whack job. for that matter, farrakhan can be articulate too.

I'm not trying to censor anything, just point out to you that if you wish to persuade muslims, find an article that's not from such a site. maybe you have a point, I don't know. but you're not going to make it by citing an article from that source.

I'm not trying to really argue with you, fez; on non-muslim web boards I've had the same thing happen: someone told me that because the site I quoted had links to rabidly anti-US sites, they refused to believe what I posted. So I found the same material from sources that couldn't be so easily impeached in their eyes.

as for me, I'm going back to the arts forum and post some more pictures of pretty mosques!

El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz did not use "house ni88er" terminology. This was language that he used under the name of Malcolm X, and he got it from his teacher Elijah Muhammad. It is convenient to use Malcolm's words when talking about racism outside of Islam, but when we talk about racism inside of Islam, Malcolm X suddenly becomes El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz. I see that most Muslims, who are not black, consider the Nation of Islam to be kufar. Those who do, should not use Malcolm as their example . El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz was assassinated when he tried to become a "house ni88er". His own wife said that it was not the Nation of Islam, but the US government's COINTELPRO that killed him.

I was there personally for his wife and two of his daughter's, so I am not speaking from an "armchair revolutionary" perspective. This is no insult to anyone, but I hate to see Malcolm's memory desecrated by people who never intend to pick up his struggle to help BLACK people.

I have also been to the Nation of Islam's headquarters, at 7351 South Stony Island in Chicago, over a period of almost 20 years, and I have found them to be as brotherly as any other Muslims I have met in America. They are not racists as most people teach. And since I have been there personally, I can speak from actual experience and not from conjecture. One will always find Muslims of all nationalities accepted amongst them.

I think our fault is not with uniting against a common enemy, it is in not uniting with ourselves.

Rehmat wrote: fezziwig wrote: Quick searches on Google suggest that these books are merely about blacks and muslims in the Americas before Colombus. Nothing about Native genocide. Do you know the definition of 'Native'? Based on this dumb logic - only the white and non-Muslims could be 'Natives'! And what your Google said about'Deeper Roots'? Doesn't it mention in the first chapter the same figures I quoted in the first place? Are you saying the HNN article is written by Mosad? And what does that have to do with WMDs and Iraq? Is the US court accept a proven liar as a genuine witness? It could be in Israel, but I am not sure about that.

Proponents of eugenics have boasted that they have murdered 600,000,000 members of the dark nations, and they plan to reduce the worlds population to 3 billion using famine, disease and war.

Historically, the colonizers murdered 100,000,000 blacks just during the middle passage through the Atlantic ocean from 1555 through the 1800's. The  Native Indian population is only a remnant of what it once was. Blacks and Indians were hunted for sport for 300 years in America. But the main cause of the genocide of these people was being worked to death and no resistance to the diseases of the Europeans, which caused mass plauges to infect them.

The colonizer also possess a knowledge of how to SCIENTIFICALLY divide the ranks of the people they enslave. They have had centuries to master this technique and it is in full effect today. We can see it manifested every time we attempt to unite.

Thank you.

While you�re on this Black subject � It may come as a surprise to you that most of the so-called �Balck or Women Rights organizations are controlled by the same people, who could top among the most racist White folks.

In 1909, when four Jews were among the sixty multiracial signers of the Call to National Action resulted in creation of the NAACP, the Yiddish newspapers on New York's Lower East Side were already equating lynchings of African Americans in the South with pogroms against Jews in Russia. During the next half century, organizational bonds and political cooperation between African American and American Jewish communities gradually matured. The culmination in 1964 was Mississippi Freedom Summer when over half of the white students who journeyed south to fight for black voting rights are estimated to have been Jewish. Those drawn to the civil rights movement gave diverse reasons, and selfless idealism on behalf of others coexisted with enlightened self-interest in uprooting prejudices that also victimized Jews.

Brother Shahbazz was never a �Hoese slave� � as Malcolm X or otherwise. It was Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. � And that�s his death anniversary is a �National Holiday� in the US. However, both fell to the guns hired by FBI.

Martin Luther King, Jr., from a 1965 interview, in A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings (1986):

"How could there be anti-Semitism among Negroes when our Jewish friends have demonstrated their commitment to the principle of tolerance and brotherhood not only in the form of sizable contributions, but in many other tangible ways, and often at great personal sacrifice. Can we ever express our appreciation to the rabbis who chose to give moral witness with us in St. Augustine during our recent protest against segregation in that unhappy city? Need I remind anyone of the awful beating suffered by Rabbi Arthur Lelyveld of Cleveland when he joined the civil rights workers there in Hattiesburg, Mississippi? And who can ever forget the sacrifice of two Jewish lives, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner, in the swamps of Mississippi? It would be impossible to record the contribution that the Jewish people have made toward the Negro's struggle for freedom--it has been so great." 

So, who was the House Slave?

Good post Rehmat.

I would like to add that the Zionists have long funded both sides of every issue in order to exorcise complete control of the issues. Most of the time, their involvement is a closely guarded secret. This is how they can cause the "leaders" of most movements to capitulate, whenever they are displeased with them. They can call them to apologize for things that they have not even done-but were done by others. You can tell the pattern of usage because it is their practice to use a spokesman from the ethnic group they are targeting. I.e... Condi Rice and Colon Powell speak against Sudan; General Adu Zaid speaks for Iraq policy, etc...

Malcolm X beat up on Zionists and publiclly named their involvement in organizations. He began teaching from the "Protocols" during his last days in the NOI. He was successful in scaring the wrong people and it triggered a response (assassination). His teacher taught him who these people were/are. But his teacher dealt with these people more masterfully, and as a result, they were not able to assassinate him.

In the "big picture", this is a fight between Allah and the devil. Malcolm X called them the devil and he was correct. When devil is unveiled, he plays to keep.

blond wrote: Good post Rehmat. I would like to add that the Zionists have long funded both sides of every issue in order to exorcise complete control of the issues. Most of the time, their involvement is a closely guarded secret. This is how they can cause the "leaders" of most movements to capitulate, ...

And how they feel about the same people - The Black? Let us hear from horse's mouth:

Philadelphia Jewish weekly The Jewish Record of January 23, 1863:

"We know not how to speak in the same breath of the Negro and the Israelite. The very names have startlingly opposite sounds ­p; one representing all that is debased and inferior in the hopeless barbarity and heathenism of six thousand years the other, the days when Jehovah conferred on our fathers the glorious equality which led the Eternal to converse with them, and allow them to enjoy the communion of angels. Thus the abandoned fanatics insult the choice of God himself, in endeavoring to reverse the inferiority which he stamped on the African, to make him the compeer, even in bondage, of His chosen people.

"There is no parallel between such races. Humanity from pole to pole would scout such a comparison. The Hebrew was originally free and the charter of his liberty was inspired by his Creator. The Negro was never free and his bondage in Africa was simply duplicated in a milder form when he was imported here....The judicious in all the earth agree that to proclaim the African equal to the surrounding races, would be a farce which would lead the civilized conservatism of the world to denounce the outrage."

Rehmat wrote: blond wrote: Good post Rehmat. I would like to add that the Zionists have long funded both sides of every issue in order to exorcise complete control of the issues. Most of the time, their involvement is a closely guarded secret. This is how they can cause the "leaders" of most movements to capitulate, ... And how they feel about the same people - The Black? Let us hear from horse's mouth: Philadelphia Jewish weekly The Jewish Record of January 23, 1863: "We know not how to speak in the same breath of the Negro and the Israelite. The very names have startlingly opposite sounds ­p; one representing all that is debased and inferior in the hopeless barbarity and heathenism of six thousand years the other, the days when Jehovah conferred on our fathers the glorious equality which led the Eternal to converse with them, and allow them to enjoy the communion of angels. Thus the abandoned fanatics insult the choice of God himself, in endeavoring to reverse the inferiority which he stamped on the African, to make him the compeer, even in bondage, of His chosen people. "There is no parallel between such races. Humanity from pole to pole would scout such a comparison. The Hebrew was originally free and the charter of his liberty was inspired by his Creator. The Negro was never free and his bondage in Africa was simply duplicated in a milder form when he was imported here....The judicious in all the earth agree that to proclaim the African equal to the surrounding races, would be a farce which would lead the civilized conservatism of the world to denounce the outrage."

Thank you.

It is also worth while to add that these are the same people who renamed the blacks from their original names to the name "negro"; meaning, a dead thing; after the etimological root word "necro". This was done during the 64 hidden years of history that it took to make the black slaves into the people we see today. This history was hidden because they never want anyone to know what they really did to the blacks. It is more revolting than anything we have seen of their society today. It is a recreation of the Masonic ritual of Hiram Abiff.

Also, the name African comes from Leo Africanus of Greece. He was a white man who "discovered" and named Africa after himself.

Lastly, according to the scriptures of the Torah, the "Israelites" name was changed to Israel after Yacub the Surrplanter wrestled with the Angel of the Lord "Jibril", all night long. After throwing his thighbone out of place, Yacub's name became Israel. This is interesting in light of our earlier discussion on Malcolm X, who said that their real name came from their father Yacub and they surrplanted the birthright of the true children of Israel to stand in their place and reap the benefits from Allah.

Rehmat wrote: Israfil wrote: Rehmat so Arab countries are not at fault for bigotry and racism? please answer No problem. I am here to teach the ignorants of their own history.

Rehmet, that's funny, in another thread you said you are a volunteer and not for someone's livelihood  

Angel wrote: ....Rehmet, that's funny, in another thread you said you are a volunteer and not for someone's livelihood

No that's another example of your acute ignorance. And you know what - The two-hours I spent each day at a high school - They call me Volunteer teacher.

Don't worry - ignorance is not your monopoly - some Muslims have too.

Yusuf. wrote: fezziwig wrote: Yusuf. wrote: fez, I followed that link and the page lists a blog by daniel pipes as one of its featured links. you yourself know what kind of reputation pipes has among muslims. what other reaction would you expect? Guilt by association, Yusuf? I expected better. The same website has links to Matt Yglesias, Juan Cole, Josh Marshall, etc., yes, I understand your point; on the internet everything leads to everything else. but a site that lists pipes as a featured link is quite different than a site from which you can eventually reach pipes. you know that as well as I do.

I don't think you DO understand. You're assuming Guilt By Association (here we call that McCarthyism). HNN is a history site, and the article I cited summarizes (pretty fairly I think) some of what we know about the subject and offers a conclusion.

would you try to persuade a jewish audience by citing an article that lists louis farrakhan as one of its featured links?

That's a straw horse. But, as a matter of fact, I might, if I thought the featured article was fair and truthful. Why not? And I can't condemn Farakhan himself entirely either: the man is deeper than his featured animosities and the media caricature.

the fact is the entire Islamic world considers daniel pipes one of its main enemies.

I don't think you DO understand. You're assuming Guilt By Association (here we call that McCarthyism). HNN is a history site, and the article I cited summarizes (pretty fairly I think) some of what we know about the subject and offers a conclusion.

COMMENT: No, it's not guilt by association on my part. My entire gist is that a Muslim would see pipes' name and discount the site's credibility.

********************

would you try to persuade a jewish audience by citing an article that lists louis farrakhan as one of its featured links?

That's a straw horse. But, as a matter of fact, I might, if I thought the featured article was fair and truthful. Why not? And I can't condemn Farakhan himself entirely either: the man is deeper than his featured animosities and the media caricature.

COMMENT: I agree with your final statement. But it's no straw horse; It's a pretty fair comparison and reflection of what i see on many websites. I prefaced my statement by saying "would you try to persuade Jewish audience" by citing him. You yourself might feel, and justifiably so, that the information you presented was convincing, but a Jewish person would, at a visceral level, reject the information. This might not be fair, but it is a fact. Heck, articles I have used on some political sites are condemned out of hand by conservatives because they come from that virulently anti-american, communist newspaper the Washington Post! So, if your goal is to convince them, you would not use the information from that site.

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the fact is the entire Islamic world considers daniel pipes one of its main enemies.


I know that, and I think that it is a mistake to turn your back on an enemy. Better to confront and refute, especially if they are strong. One can ignore small whiny enemies, but Big Guys have to be confronted (and in spare time you can confront the little ones).

As a parallel, the RightBlogs consider Juan Cole their enemy (sometimes there are long learned threads running to hundreds of entries excoriating Cole and challenging his articles, cf. Belmont Club), but they read him anyway (then a vein pops out on the forehead, the face turns red and they start hyperventilating).

And anyway, I wasn't trying to persuade Rehmat of anything, I just thought he ought to use better data. Nothing negates ones arguments faster than bad premises, and throwing around bad numbers and invalid premises brands one as a lightweight, easily ignored.

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COMMENT: Well, that's fine. I see your points and hope you understand my perspective. As always, I find myself unable to clearly express what i am really trying to say.

fezziwig wrote: ...I don't think you DO understand. You're assuming Guilt By Association (here we call that McCarthyism)....

Hmmmmm! Do you what 'McCarthism' was?

Here is a hint - Senator was used by the Communist Jews to destroy the very liberties of which the US prides itself. The same agenda is being implimented under Bush by Zionists under the cover of 'War against Terrorism' - while creating 'terrorism' in every Muslim country for the benefit of Zionist Israel.

I though you may like to see in the mirror.

fezziwig wrote: ....Are you referring to the "Protocols of the elders of Zion"? If so, look for a better reference: the "Protocols" were exposed as a hoax long ago ....

YES that�s the one!.

Well Zionists have so many �hoax� to count for. But thanks to internet and research many of them have turned to be reality. In addition to the famous �hoax of Holocaust� this one has turned the table on the Jews too.

We are told that The Protocols of Zion is a hoax, a "proven forgery" concocted by the Tsarist Political Police (the Okhrana) to incite anti Semitism and discredit revolutionaries.

But the "proof" is far from convincing

http://www.rense.com/general45/proto.htm - http://www.rense.com/general45/proto.htm

BTW - The link is not to Henry Ford's book - 'The International Jew', which I can provide you free of cost - if you wish.

fezziwig wrote: That's REALLY interesting. I never heard that before. Where can I read about this? Online citations are preferred...

Well you not have heard this one either - Bushism!

Prof. Yuval quotes many ancient Jewish texts proving the Jewish Messiah. �In the End of the days (when the Messiah comes) God will destroy, kill and exterminate all the nations but the sons of Israel�, written in the Sefer Nitzahon Yashan, written by a German Jew in 13th c. A liturgical poet Klonimus b. Judah had a vision of �God�s hands full of Goys� corpses�. Even more dreadful dreams of blood and destruction precede the first attacks on Jews in the end of 11th century. A hundred years before the Crusaders� onslaught on Jews, R. Simon b. Yitzhak calls on God �to take His sword and slaughter the Gentiles�. In order to hasten the destruction of Gentiles, the sages of Europe adopted curses against Christians and Christ, and introduced them into liturgy of Passover, Doomsday and even the daily prayer.

That is why the decision of President Bush to embark of the campaign of revenge is not a Christian act. One could argue that the President and his administration are manipulated by the Jews, who dream of vengeance. Not in vain, immediately after WTC was hit by kamikaze, Bibi Nataniyahu said: It is very good for us (Israel). Not in vain, Ariel Sharon tried to compare Palestinians to Osama b. Laden. Not in vain, Israelis demanded destruction of Baghdad and now Teheran, and Sudan, of everybody who is not taking orders from Tel Aviv or Washington.

A mystic would not call it �manipulation�, but would accept for its face value the arrival of Messiah of Vengeance in the unlikely figure of G.W. Bush. The Messiah of Vengeance has actually a different name in Christian theology. He is called Antichrist. (By Israel Shamir, an Israeli Jew).

Interestingly enough, I have noticed that almost every stated goal contained in the "hoax", written over 100 years ago, is now a reality.

So you can call it a "hoax" if you wish, but I will call it something else.

blond wrote: Interestingly enough, I have noticed that almost every stated goal contained in the "hoax", written over 100 years ago, is now a reality. So you can call it a "hoax" if you wish, but I will call it something else.

There are so many realities in the past which are called 'hoax' - however here is the recent incident that could become a 'hoax' very soon.

The public execution of Terri Schiavo resembles a ritual human sacrifice. Others have commented on the http://cuttingedge.org/newsletters/ - Satanic signatures in the events leading up to the execution.

This sad affair appears contrived to deny the sanctity of human life and further brutalize society. The court denied Schiavo's parents guardianship even though her husband had started a new family with another woman. Apparently, his motivation for putting Terri to death was to keep the money from the settlement intended for Terri's care. Any court could see this yet it they refused to act. The Bushies can rig an election, cover up 9-11, gut the Constitution but they can't feed a disabled woman?

A larger satanic agenda is at work. The Luciferians intend to cull the human race through war or disease. We are squatters on their planet; they need only so many. So it makes sense to inure us to senseless killing.

Whether in rituals of war or murder, human sacrifice also has a Satanic significance. Apparently, Satanists derive some kind of power from the spirit of the dying victim.

Also, as others have pointed out, events like Schiavo's execution are designed to gauge public reaction. They are measuring how far they can go and how fast.

Rehmat wrote: blond wrote: Interestingly enough, I have noticed that almost every stated goal contained in the "hoax", written over 100 years ago, is now a reality. So you can call it a "hoax" if you wish, but I will call it something else. There are so many realities in the past which are called 'hoax' - however here is the recent incident that could become a 'hoax' very soon. The public execution of Terri Schiavo resembles a ritual human sacrifice. Others have commented on the http://cuttingedge.org/newsletters/ - Satanic signatures in the events leading up to the execution. This sad affair appears contrived to deny the sanctity of human life and further brutalize society. The court denied Schiavo's parents guardianship even though her husband had started a new family with another woman. Apparently, his motivation for putting Terri to death was to keep the money from the settlement intended for Terri's care. Any court could see this yet it they refused to act. The Bushies can rig an election, cover up 9-11, gut the Constitution but they can't feed a disabled woman? A larger satanic agenda is at work. The Luciferians intend to cull the human race through war or disease. We are squatters on their planet; they need only so many. So it makes sense to inure us to senseless killing. Whether in rituals of war or murder, human sacrifice also has a Satanic significance. Apparently, Satanists derive some kind of power from the spirit of the dying victim. Also, as others have pointed out, events like Schiavo's execution are designed to gauge public reaction. They are measuring how far they can go and how fast.

Very perceptive.

They do periodically test the boundaries of what they can get away with.

I have notived  that the pattern is always to introduce the concept in a major Hollywood movie release, i.e. "The Long Kiss Goodbye", a movie two years before 911 in which a rogue US government agency planned to blow up the World Trade Centers in New York using an airplane, and then blame it on the Muslims; then go before the Senate Appropriations Committee to get the funding for a real war against the Muslim nation of their choosing. When the movie is accepted and does well in the box office, it becomes US policy. Also the movie "Wag The Dog".

A wise man once said that some people are born with the gift of prophecy. And others learn it by an intense study of the cyclical nature of history.