Bitcoin/crypto currency and Islam
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islamic Finance
Forum Description: Islamic Finance
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39047
Printed Date: 23 November 2024 at 7:21pm
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Topic: Bitcoin/crypto currency and Islam
Posted By: Ceo3
Subject: Bitcoin/crypto currency and Islam
Date Posted: 02 March 2017 at 11:29pm
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A salaams all,
Any thoughts on Islams view on bitcoin? From what i have read there is huge support for muslims to get involved and indeed purchase cryptocurrency. But what is the other side of the coin(pun intended). On the surface it looks like currency, some are saying its less haraam than fiat paper money or credit card facility. May Allah swt guide us all. |
Replies:
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 04 March 2017 at 2:01am
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Bit coin is a scam because it is like a currency but one of the reasons the US dollar works and the Zimbabwean dollar failed is because of the governance of it being untrustable. The US dollar has the over-sight of the US government. It has the depth of the US ecconomy. This is why it works all over the world. The Swis franc has the even better over-sight of the Swis government and the very good Swis democracy but not the depth of the huge US economy. Thus for having some emergency cash for a rainy day in your safe the Swis franc is the money of choice for the world's rich. But for having the power to buy a new super tanker it's the US dollar. Bitcoin is not over-seen by any governance I can trust. So if I needed to launder some drugs money then a quick flush through the Bitcion system would work well but for legitimate stuff I'll keep it real. |
Posted By: Ceo3
Date Posted: 06 March 2017 at 10:06pm
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Thanks for input Tim the Plumber
Agree crypto currency could be used for evil. Also a big reason as i see for its creation could be just to circumvent government controls. But there is an argument against too much government regulation, which could be detrimental of its people. Yes dollar is great, however just for its own citizens and mainly for the wealthy. US benefits from strong currency, due to petro-dollar, and seignorage. While the rest of the world losses out. Not to mention the dollar denominated loans whereby US gets interest. So Bitcoin could be threat to dollar and other major currencies, but who gets to benefit most? If it is evil organisations and the super wealthy again then I too wont trust. |
Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 07 March 2017 at 6:30am
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Bitcoin is a currency derivative. Because it is has a defined limit, one can infer that the hyperinflation recently seen in bitcoin reflects what would happen to money in an honest currency system.
The question of Islamic propriety is still unaddressed. Perhaps a member with influence in the Islamic banking community will inquire for us? ------------- Christian; Wesleyan M.Div. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 07 March 2017 at 11:28am
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The idea that the USA benefits from the oil market being priced in dollars is wrong. Just because the price is quoted in dollars means nothing. Any trade can use whatever currency they choose to. When a German company buys oil from Nigeria the trade is done looking at the at the price in dollars but will be in Euros. A good question to ask is why is it that it is only the currencies of the democratic nations which are so trusted? Althought Singapore is an obvious exception... |
Posted By: Ceo3
Date Posted: 08 March 2017 at 9:54pm
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Wiki:Since the agreements of 1971 and 1973, OPEC oil is exclusively quoted in US dollars. This created a permanent demand for dollars on the international exchange markets.[3][4] As of 2005, OPEC continues to trade in US Dollars, but some OPEC members (such as Iran and Venezuela) have been pushing for a switch to the euro.
The world has to buy dollars then buy oil. Saudi is as much to blame as US. The democratic nations who have strong currency are also the wealthiest and military powerful. So whenever dollar under threat wars are waged to protect currency hence financial dominance. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 09 March 2017 at 9:06am
You do not have to buy dollars at all. There is nothing stopping you, well a large comapny, from buying oil with gold bars. It is simply that the oil industry finds it more convienient to deal in dollars. Sellers of oil will accept other curriencies or whatever it will just make them charge a little more for the hassel. |
Ceo3 wrote:Posted By: Ceo3
Date Posted: 09 March 2017 at 10:34pm
| Can you provide proof or source? OPEC only sells in dollars since the 70s, google petro dollar, opec agreements ect. Every country tht supports withdrawel from petro dollar has been neutralised ie Iraq, Libya...next it would be Iran. |
Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 10 March 2017 at 8:39am
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All international trade in USD is collapsing.
Iran circumvents sanctions by buying gold from Turkey and trading that with Russia. Back to bitcoin. Look at btc price in USD. Hyperinflation is obvious as the btc market has no quantitative easing. I think btc is a decent inflation metric in any currency as it is just local currency held outside of the monetary system. ------------- Christian; Wesleyan M.Div. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 10 March 2017 at 10:48am
When a deal is make the price is agreed between the buyer and the seller. There is no interntional police force looking at exactly what happens between the 2. The seller can accept whatever they wish for their oil but they want dollars. |
Posted By: Ceo3
Date Posted: 10 March 2017 at 10:01pm
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@DavidC
Agree, dollar is close to its last. What would you consider a better safe haven bitcoin or gold when the dollar collapses? Bitcoin best performing currency of late. Not sure what you mean 'Hyperinflation is obvious'? |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 11 March 2017 at 1:47am
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Hyperinflation is as obvious as total collapse for bitcoin. It has no real world worth to fall back on. Once out of fashion it has zero value. If you want a safe currency then the Swis franc is it. A real stable economy and very sound democratic governance behind it make it the one of choice for an emergency. The trouble with it is that it has a small economy behind it. Thus if you want to buy a second home then it is great but for buying a billion pound super tanker or a freeway you will need something else. |
Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 11 March 2017 at 7:48am
Silver. Bitcoin is gambling. I bought some btc two years ago. I bought low, sold high and have put all of my original stake into silver. Plenty of bitcoin "profit" left which I trade for fun, but it is too risky to be considered an investment. Plenty of fun, but I would worry too much if it was money I needed. Instead I fantasize about how I could help the poor if I become rich. Btc can be a fine prayer tool. Bitcoin is a derivative of the dollar or whatever currency your bank uses. It is much less safe, but much more volatile. My strategy is savings in gold and silver coins, small denominations. Currency in the safe to cover expenses for six months. Another year in the bank. No sense in paying premiums for PM's if I will be forced to sell before they appreciate. Bitcoin is a hobby. It looks good on my screen, but I have to cash out after it goes up but while I can still use the dollars to buy silver coins. If bitcoin goes up to a bazillion dollars but nobody will trade silver for dollars the whole effort will just be a fantasy trip to Zimbabwe. My goal is to minimize personal financial insecurity. My car is 10 yrs old (Kias are krap) and my house is 50. Other than a college fund for my daughter everything is earmarked for helping the less fortunate when the debt system crashes. The working poor cannot afford to prepare, so we are obliged to do it for them. ------------- Christian; Wesleyan M.Div. |
Posted By: Ceo3
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 11:02pm
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@ Tim the plumber
Cant argue against stability of that currency. @DavidC Thats my first impressions of bitcoin as wel, its highly speculative nature. But consider that this is version 1 of crypto currency (cc). What if somehow was indexed to gold and silver. That would remove the volatile nature and at the same time be an alternative to fiat money. This advantage would circumvent bankers from exploiting us by charging interest and making money on top on money. Cc is also now beng used wherewith to purchase shares in a company sidestepping sec regulations. Fiat is inherent evil, and as Tim pointed there is nothing backing bitcoin as well but perhaps its a lesser evil? Agree, lol, all these newer brands of cars are useless. Agree silver good long term stable bet. Also like gold, however highly unlikely to make quick fortune. Uranium looks a good bet, low now with huge potential giving world events. Have been reading about new energy source set to revolutionise energy market, but all in secrecy now? Noble considering poor and less fortunate. My view replace current banking ie interest based with something less exploitive will eradicate poverty. Thanks and regards, |
Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 9:14am
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Bitcoin is backed by fiat. You must buy it in fiat and almost always trade btc back to fiat before using.
The advantage is that with btc you can transfer from one fiat currency to another without paying bank fees. All you need are bank accounts in whatever currencies you use. You cannot get across national boundries with PM's and the exchange premiums are astronomical. Good for saving but not for spending. People who live, work and invest in multiple countries find the convertibility function of btc valuable. That is one reason the price keeps increasing. A fixed amount of bitcoin and new buyers learning about btc everyday makes the price rise. The test of btc will be when the US FRN is replaced with the devalued TRN, which will likely be all electronic with government issued credit cards similar to SNAP cards. Btc should prove safer than cash as it is diversified across countries and there may even be a blow-off due to confusion. Security is only in God and not in money. Maybe a little safety in Subarus - best built gas fueled car on the road. ------------- Christian; Wesleyan M.Div. |
Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 9:22am
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Relevant resource. I am not qualified to comment on it, but since no one here can address the OP here it is:
http://www.islamandbitcoin.com - Islamandbitcoin.com ------------- Christian; Wesleyan M.Div. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 12:52pm
No. Can you provide any evidence that Iran would not accept payment for oil in Euros or gold? The price agreed is going to be in dollars but the payment method are generally between the seller and the buyer. Why not ask the Iranian embassy? |
Posted By: Ceo3
Date Posted: 27 April 2017 at 11:20pm
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"However, the decision to drop the dollar could prove to be complicated for Iran, given that its most important export is oil which is priced in dollars. The country is on course to earn $41bn from oil sales this fiscal year. Switching its reporting to another currency will add a degree of currency risk and volatility and is likely to complicate matters for the authorities. At this stage, however, it is not clear how they will deal with this issue."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2017/01/30/iran-to-ditch-dollar/#5a0f180a6715 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-07/iran-says-no-thanks-dollars-demands-euro-payment-oil-sales&ved=0ahUKEwiUmYPpvcbTAhUHVxQKHddtDosQFgglMAQ&usg=AFQjCNHDDJqMGbGKCzBScKmPr95V_eoA8A&sig2=IKGcjQf4MHZhq6mXfNQHCg @ Tim, The Iranian embassy was of no help. However the articles above could provide some insight. I think you may be right that participants decide currency but sale quote in dollars. My question is does the quoting of price in dollars give it strength? |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 1:13am
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I think it is the other way around. That the strength of the dollar is reason commodities are priced in dollars. With dollars you can buy stuff anywhere and of any cost. With Swis francs you can have great confidence that they will be still worth what they are today (at least) in 5 years time but if you are looking to buy a fleet of oil tankers or a new refinery the economy of Swizerland is not big enough to support the massive movement of cash that that sort of thing needs. Sometimes a currency can make the change from being a Swis style sloid little trustable thing into an international trading currency like the Hong Kong dollar did in the far east but this is usually due to the place being an intense center for trade and a lack of decently exchangable currencies as an alternative. If UAE or some such had such a currecy that was more trusted than the dollar or other local currencies then there is perhaps the opportunity for the same. But today most currencies are managed by people who understand how money works fairly well and those the arn't are the ones that don't work. |
Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 26 May 2017 at 6:44pm
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Sharia compliant gold based cryptocurrency announced.
There is an Islamic accounting standards organization mentioned. Probably a good source for info on bitcoin and islam. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-26/shariah-compliant-crypto-gold-could-islam-be-preparing-new-world-reserve-currency ------------- Christian; Wesleyan M.Div. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 07 June 2017 at 1:31pm
If it catches on expect the price of gold to sky rocket untill somebody announces that they can make it/extract it in a far cheaper way. Don't be too surprised if they are sitting on this techno;ogy right now. |
Posted By: cene
Date Posted: 26 September 2017 at 8:58am
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Some useful reference and links that relates to the topic at hand
https://www.coingecko.com/buzz/bitcoin-islam-islamic-banking-finance https://www.luno.com/blog/en/post/bitcoin-and-islam |
Posted By: maybethien
Date Posted: 25 October 2017 at 5:47pm
| Seems like its very volatile. That can be a good thing as well as a bad thing. |
Posted By: Akhma
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 9:31pm
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i'm interesting this ico
http://www.bitandpay.com/ - http://www.bitandpay.com/ |
Posted By: Ceo3
Date Posted: 21 December 2018 at 12:15pm
| Thankfully I did not invest in bitcoin as it crushed and hasn't recovered. Also majority of opinion is that is not allowed as it currently stands |
Posted By: zeenat
Date Posted: 07 March 2022 at 2:42am
| According to fatwa, the use of bitcoin and other coins for investment consider haram. |
Posted By: zeenat
Date Posted: 07 March 2022 at 11:49pm
| Many Islamic scholars says, Bitcoin/crypto is not legal in Islam. |
Posted By: zeenat
Date Posted: 10 March 2022 at 11:49pm
| We not think about the Islam, we just sees cash, it is so wrong as a Muslim. |
Posted By: zeenat
Date Posted: 16 March 2022 at 2:39am
| Cryptocurrency is deemed permissible and halal under Islamic sharia law, and this has unlocked the crypto. |
Posted By: Overslept
Date Posted: 30 August 2022 at 2:14am
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Now bitcoin is also going through a crisis, and it has continued to fall in price for almost a year. In this way, we can say that the cryptocurrency market has lost weight in the global economy and will probably be able to restore it because many investors have already left this project, taking millions of dollars with them. I was lucky that I managed to sell my bitcoins for 60k apiece, and now I plan to increase my capital. And to do this effectively, I'm thinking of hiring a http://https://www.humaninvesting.com/retirement-plan-services" rel="nofollow - certified financial planner who will tell me where to invest my money and how to work with them. |
Posted By: wertyhas
Date Posted: 30 August 2022 at 3:01am
| All digital currencies using a Proof of Stake algorithm are forbidden. |
Posted By: wadiihindu
Date Posted: 01 September 2022 at 11:36am
| I don't think religion can forbid the use of currency. When Islam was invented, no one would have thought that digital currencies would appear. Most importantly, you spend the income from crypto on good things. I tried to trade cryptocurrency many times but was afraid of taking risks. So I decided to invest crypto as a deposit. On this website https://hodlrate.com/" rel="nofollow - https://hodlrate.com/ , I found platforms that offer high interest for crypto. This is the most reliable way to earn money on cryptocurrency. |
Posted By: floppyhera
Date Posted: 24 October 2022 at 6:08am
| Now bitcoin is also going through a crisis, and it has continued to fall in price for almost a year. In this way, we can say that the cryptocurrency market has lost weight in the global economy and will probably be able to restore it because many investors have already left this project, taking millions of dollars with them. |
Posted By: Overslept
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 5:39am
| I think it's not a good idea to invest in transportation during the pandemic. |
Posted By: Abdulrashidbala
Date Posted: 19 April 2023 at 2:28am
| Just like any investment, it has its risks. But hey, have you checked out http://fbs.com/analytics/videolessons/account-types-6" rel="nofollow - fbs trading account ? They can be a game-changer! I've been using fbs.com/site/web-trader for my crypto trades, and it's been smooth sailing. You can stay in control and make moves on the go, no stress. Don't let the recent market dip get you down, man. Keep an eye on the trends, do your research, and stay patient. Crypto's got that bounce-back potential! |
Posted By: wertyhas
Date Posted: 25 April 2023 at 11:22pm
| Yeah, the crypto market has been a rollercoaster lately, but don't lose hope, bro! It's all about those ups and downs, right? Just like any investment, it has its risks |
Posted By: Mughees
Date Posted: 25 April 2024 at 6:30am
| Crypotcurrencies operate in a largeely unregulated environment, which can lead to concerns about fraud and exploitation. This lack of transparency can be seen as problematic from an Islamic perspective. Cryptocurrencies are sometimes used for illegal activities such as money laundering and other goods. This association with unlawful activities rasie concerns about their permissibility. If the use of cryptocurrencies causes harm to individuals or society, this could against the principles of Islam. The permissibility of using cryptocurrencies depend on how they are used and whether they align with Islamic principles. We should seek advice from various Islamic scholars who is knoweldgeable about both Islamic finance and the specifics of cryptocurrency before making any decisions. |