One of the moderator (probably sis Khadijah) made the following remarks to which I don't fully agree with. She says "

***What part of my warning did you fail to understand?  Non-Muslims are not invited here to debate their faith.  They are invited here to learn about Islam.  It appears to me that your sole purpose here is to proselytize which is not permitted because this is a MUSLIM forum group.  We are here to learn about Islam.  We love our faith.  We do not beg others to come here; however, we warmly welcome them if they truly desire to learn about Islam."** "

Here I do like to draw her attention to a particular area of this forum, where healthy discussion among different faiths ( http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=10 - Islamic Interfaith Dialogue ) is discussed to learn. This learning is a both way traffic through which we all benefit. If we believe, as Muslims, that we are on the right path, then we must be able to demonstrate it as well beyond our "blind" faith with appropriate logic and using wisdom that Allah has given us. However, we are incapable of doing so, then such tactics of "shuting up others" would not help either. Here, ( http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=10 - Islamic Interfaith Dialogue ), I do see a lot of threads being un-necessarily locked out with out assigning any reason to it, that too, hardly the discussion has begun in them. Now for them I really couldn't understand as why such an action took place. Are we afraid of some thing?

Now coming to the specific word "proselytize " which our moderators levishly use to chop others, it must be realised that it is a relative term and must be used in very extrem situations. Untill or unless someone is behaving such as not to listen to logical arguments presented by others and whose only purpose is to declare his opinon without rationalist understanding of it, I don't think such a lable can be fixed so easily on this forum.

Ahmad, how right you are.  I will soon be banned for eternity I suppose.  But, as an illustration, I posted a thread on the Interfaith Dialogue regarding the unity of God - nipped in the bud, and it was a pretty good discussion point.  You'll note that I said nothing negative about Muslims.

You know, Ahmad, Christians already believe that Muslims are rather anti-intellectual, and not willing to submit to honest critical thought.  This just confirms it more.  As a Christian, I'd be willing to answer any question you would throw at me.  I'm not going to shut you down for asking questions.

Look, Muslims put out fatwas on those who write or say things contrary to Islam.  Christians aren't into that.  We believe in freedom of thought and expression - something that censorship does not allow.

AhmadJoyia, I'm with ya on your point  

Assalamu Alaikum!

Brother AhmadJoyia,

No offense intended, could you please elaborate the difference between dialogue and debate, if any?

Peace

brother ahmadjoyia, i agree with what sister khadija said.

and i totally disagree with you brother.

i don't think this is unhealthy censorship. this is an islamic forum. people who enter this forum know that they come here to learn Islam.

brother ak, did i say that they should not ask questions regarding islam?

they may ask questions regarding islam.

masha Allah i have replied to many of questions of non-muslims in this forum.

this is an islamic forum. people who enter this forum must know that they come here to learn islam.

peacemaker wrote: Assalamu Alaikum! Brother AhmadJoyia, No offense intended, could you please elaborate the difference between dialog and debate, if any? Peace

Dear Bro, I think neither of the two cases can be applied to the threads that I referred in my last post that were locked out. It was hardly any dialog, what to call debate had yet started in them. Just for an example "Is God an Absolute Unity " where the only reply given was simply an agreement by bro AK. More so, I don't see any citations by the moderators for locking it out.

AK_M_f  You ask whether the concept of freedom is in the Bible.  I would say it definitely is; for instance, Jesus said,

"If the Son has set you free, you are free indeed."

Christianity has had a long tradition of internal debate.  Theology was, after all, defined by Councils, where debates took place.  Christians attribute the consensus to the activity of the Holy Spirit, who was sent to guide the Church into all truth. If you access most Christian website, you will quickly learn that Christians debate among themselves (on the minors, not the majors), and that kind of debate can be very healthy. 

Now, on the other hand, I would say that Islam may not have that same tradition of free exchanges of ideas and concepts pertaining to theological doctrine.  That is why you will not generally see this kind of give and take among Muslims and Non-Muslims on Muslim-owned websites.  You will see it,however, on Christian-oriented sites.  That's just the way it is, I suppose, and I don't think there is going to be any big break-through in dialogue in the near future.

Of course Muslims believe they are right, and Christians believe deeply that they are right.  However, Christians don't usually make remaining a Christian a matter of physical life or death (at least not in this era). I believe that "freedom of religious expression" is a Western concept, and of biblical origin.  For instance, when Paul spoke of heretical teachers, he never condemned them with a death sentence - he simply said, "anathema."  Surely, Jesus never taught any compulsion in religion - in fact He taught exactly the opposite: "no man can come to Me, unless the Father draws him."

This Christian view is evidenced by the Calvinist system of theology which speaks of election from the foundations of the earth. 

So, this is my view on the matter, A

�You know, Ahmad, Christians already believe that Muslims are rather anti-intellectual, and not willing to submit to honest critical thought.� 

You know, Athanasius, I called my mom, the best Christian that I have ever known, and she said that she most certainly does not believe this.

Servetus 

Athanasius,

You are talking about a nation that has been gripped by war for as long as I've been alive.  There is something like a 96% illiteracy rate in Afghanistan and many of the people have never even read the Quran or ahadiths of their own religion.  They go off of what is taught by the mullahs or whom many themselves are relatively uneducated.  This is a very tribal society that incorporates tribal custom into Islamic belief.  Many scholars from around the world pleaded with the Afghan government to spare his life and rejected it as an unIslamic act.  CAIR was one of them. 

The Quran encourages learning and science.  While we Europeans were plunged into the dark ages, they were studying Science and Mathematics. 

Education is a cornerstone of Islam.  Keeping people ignorant is the tool of tribal societies not wanting to lose control of the people to the higher call of Islam. 

Athanasius, please go to this site, it had all the ahadiths, three translations of the Quran and a host of other information on Islam.

You claim to have read the Quran, but I wonder.  Did you read it cover to cover, have you read and studied the Sunnah?  What sources did you use?  Were they Islamic sources or Christian sources on Islam? 

Just check this site out.....there would not be so many sites out there like this if it weren't for the Islamic love of learning.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html - http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html

�Servetus, I don't know your mother, or her knowledge of Islam.�

Athanasius, perhaps at some point I shall introduce you to her.  In the meantime, she is comparatively �at times, astoundingly- well informed and tends to take issue when others appoint themselves to speak for her or her beliefs with such statements as �Christians believe that Muslims ��

Serv 

AhmadJoyia wrote: One of the moderator (probably sis Khadijah) made the following remarks to which I don't fully agree with. She says " ***What part of my warning did you fail to understand?  Non-Muslims are not invited here to debate their faith.  They are invited here to learn about Islam.  It appears to me that your sole purpose here is to proselytize which is not permitted because this is a MUSLIM forum group.  We are here to learn about Islam.  We love our faith.  We do not beg others to come here; however, we warmly welcome them if they truly desire to learn about Islam."** " Here I do like to draw her attention to a particular area of this forum, where healthy discussion among different faiths ( http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=10 - Islamic Interfaith Dialogue ) is discussed to learn. This learning is a both way traffic through which we all benefit. If we believe, as Muslims, that we are on the right path, then we must be able to demonstrate it as well beyond our "blind" faith with appropriate logic and using wisdom that Allah has given us. However, we are incapable of doing so, then such tactics of "shuting up others" would not help either. Here, ( http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=10 - Islamic Interfaith Dialogue ), I do see a lot of threads being un-necessarily locked out with out assigning any reason to it, that too, hardly the discussion has begun in them. Now for them I really couldn't understand as why such an action took place. Are we afraid of some thing? Now coming to the specific word "proselytize " which our moderators levishly use to chop others, it must be realised that it is a relative term and must be used in very extrem situations. Untill or unless someone is behaving such as not to listen to logical arguments presented by others and whose only purpose is to declare his opinon without rationalist understanding of it, I don't think such a lable can be fixed so easily on this forum.

Bismillah,

I agree that interfaith is meant for open discussions and dialoge.  However, even that liberal section should never allow Islaam bashing and preaching by atheists or believers of other faiths.

I agree with Sister Khadija's comments and support them.  I appreciate her effort and good will towards us which is solely for the purpose of assisting all of the Muslims and friends of Muslims here.  She would never oppress anyone as others have slurred her by remarking.

Peace.

Assalamu Alaikum:

This thread started out as a simple question asking why certain threads or posts are 'censored'. As you can read for youselves, it has turned into bickering, name calling, and religious one-up-manship. It is way off topic and not very pleasant.

This is a perfect example of why some threads are being monitored, edited, and deleted or closed.

Athanasius: this is an ISLAMIC website. Please feel free to have your 'staff' check into anything that you like. We have the right to 'censor' any posts that do not conform with Islamic behavior or manners. We also have the right to ban any user from the forum who is causing disruption or not following the Guidelines.

As for proselytizing, if someone is here to learn about Islam, that will be obvious within a few posts. If they ask questions only to turn them around to prove that another religion is correct, they are not here to learn but rather to preach. There are some posters here who relish these threads and enjoy the back and forth, but there are many posters here who do not. There are also new Muslims here who may be confused by these posts, or those who are non-Muslims who sincerely want to learn, who find this disturbing.

I do not believe for a second that that was or is the purpose of this forum. It should be a place for all to come and LEARN in a relatively nurturing environment. I invite anyone who is criticizing the Moderators to go back and read some of the recent posts and ask yourselves honestly if these posts reflect this type of an environment. And please keep in mind that some of the most argumentative and negative posts have been deleted.

Learning Enviroment: 2 - Islamic Forum: 16

Looks like the points are stacked in one direction.. But Keep up this ******* of a nuturing enviroment..

why dont you just let them preach.. its not like anyone would really change his or her viewpoint just based on some random information on the internet. In the end.. if the person was going to be swayed one way or the other.. the seeds would have been planted a long time ago...

Christians will see things through christian lenses, and will try to prove this or that with scripture here.. "evidence there"... and the Muslims do the same thing... you cant prove somthing to somone else if they dont believe in your source. Though there are exceptions... still in the end its about faith... and a few words cant change that.

Only those who have somthing to loose... fear information...
".....Truth Stands Clear from Error" (2:256).... right?

P.S. people who have been on this forum for only 6 months.... maybe shouldnt be moderators.

-ArabianKnight- wrote: P.S. people who have been on this forum for only 6 months.... maybe shouldnt be moderators.

This is a bit harsh.

The new moderators are doing a great job. May Allah reward them for their efforts. Ameen

Are you jealous?

Assalamu Alaikum!

Now the thread has lost the direction, so it has to be closed.

Peace