Interesting, but Muslims do believe in the same God that the Christians and the Jews believe in, there is only one God. Furthermore, Muslims do not believe that non-believers will be punished with eternal hell fire. We believe that people will be punished according to their deeds and intentions, but God is extremely Merciful and Forgiving and only God knows our punishment.

All people born will die, yet why do people continue to have babies that they know will face certain death? Do they have children to torture them? As a cruel joke? Of course not.

If you commit a crime, say murder someone, you know that there is a good chance you will be caught and punished for this crime. Sometimes this is a deterrent, sometimes not. However, if you are of sound mind and realise what punishment you might face yet commit the murder anyway, then you choose to possibly face that punishment. That is your choice.

Scientifically we are taught that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. It is Newton's Third Law.

What if you do a murder and never get caught? What if you spend your entire life molesting small children and never get caught? You have taken the action, what is the equal but opposite reaction? Do you think there will be no consequences for these actions ever?

If you have no punishment for these actions on this earth, when will you be punished? When you will face the consequences of what you do?

God is not cruel or unjust ever. He tells us exactly what we need to do. He has given us the rules and the ability to understand these rules, all we have to do is choose to follow them.

Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that if any one follows any other religion other than Islam he is among the losers.

even if any one believes in god but follows some other religion, he will remain in hell fire forever.

because Islam contains worship (ibadah) and the act of bowing and prostration to Allah The Most High and there are many other things which make muslims different from people who follow religions other than Islam.

Allah states in the Holy Qur'an:

"The Religion in the sight of Allah is Islam." (Qur'an http://www.islamworld.net/quran/quran/3.html#19 - 3:19 )

"If unyone desires a religion other than Islam (Submission to Allah), Never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (their selves in the hell fire)."(Qur'an http://www.islamworld.net/quran/quran/3.html#85 - 3:85 )

In addition, Islam is the only religion prevailing over all other religions. Allah states in the Holy Qur'an:

"To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety:..." (Qur'an http://www.islamworld.net/quran/quran/5.html#48 - 5:48 )

harry, i suggest that you gain more knowledge of why Islam is the true and unique religion ( if Allah wills )

This is very nice article, maybe copy and paste maybe you work it out yourself. If this is the later than as a muslim I say masha Allah.

In the past people much more interest in a personal God that they can relate what they have sometjing in mind - and He gives the reply in person, a sort of fatherly figure. If they were informed bluntly that this is not the case it would create the feeling of despair among the illiterate population at that time. Let alone in the past, this include today's people.

Believe in God is the first step for a believer. Once he/she is reasonably equiped with theological datas he or she must step forward into knowing him by constantly thinking of Him through the available knowledges. The more the person makes an ernest effort the more he/she will understand what Allah is. In the khadith Qudsy the expression works like this:

When my servant approachs me walking - I am welcoming him running

Once the person knows what he is worshipping than any other influence to dislodge him/her from believing in God is futile works. The best thing they can do is to kill him, because he knows what Allah is.

The multiple use of WE, HE and I in the Qur'an should be a good distance flashing light in the dark to approach. Believe in him, know him, love him. Longing to meet him should be the end result. Shall we start while we have time?

And with Him are the keys of the Invisible. None but He knoweth them. And He knoweth what is in the land and the sea.
Not a leaf falleth but He knoweth it,
not a grain amid the darkness of the earth,
naught of wet or dry but (noted) in a clear record. (6:59)

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

well im glad u have one fact straight which is we cant expect to explain The Will of our Lord on our logic, its quite a conincidence that just couple of days ago i noticed one thing in Holy Quran that when there is a mention of disbelievers and their abode in hell, the arabic word 'Abada' which means forever dont come (brother and sisters if im wrong please help me out here cos i want2 know if there is an ayah), now most of time when our Lord most generous mentions people of heaven this word does come, now it could be my lack of knowledge but people who are disbelievers would live in hell but how long and what their end would be, its not with us

now another fact u can neva use the parable of parents and kids with our relation with our Lord, He is our Lord, gives us every thing, nothing in this world we could have done to deserve this life or the blessings in it, now as we know it, most religion say that life is a test, now u said that why cant u see God? well dont u think if u could see God that wont be a test for u to actually follow him, u can see him whats stopping u believing in him then,

another thing if it was very simple and easy that u could actually understand the wisdom behind the fact that why God lets disbelievers live and enjoy the blessings of this life and then burns them in hell, how would that be a test, now u debate the fact God cannot be called Most Mercifull and then that He punishes his creation with hell fire, well this is one of the attributes of our lord, this is not ALL about our lord (u can read attributes of our Lord in Quran and Sunnah section), our lord tells us that He is exact in retribution, now although we human, finite created beings cant use our own example but do u think being a kind hearted person can stop u being a good judge? i dont think so, explore the world of Allah swt with thirst of knowldge and truth not with the doubt

lastly u said something about why should some1 believe in what a book says as a book is only written by a human, now i want to see whether u looking for truth or trouble , if u have time can u find me scientific reason behind why a child resembles his father (or his side of family) and why he resembles his mother (or her side of family), when u do then il tell u why i can have doubt bout reality of my life but not this Book

wassalam

Assalamu Alaikum:

You misunderstand my post. I never said that God behaved in any manner human or otherwise.

This is what I said about God:

Interesting, but Muslims do believe in the same God that the Christians and the Jews believe in, there is only one God. Furthermore, Muslims do not believe that non-believers will be punished with eternal hell fire. We believe that people will be punished according to their deeds and intentions, but God is extremely Merciful and Forgiving and only God knows our punishment.

We do not know God's reasoning for anything unless He has stated it in the Quran. An example: Allah created Adam to be a viscegerent on the earth. The Quran also NEVER states that any soul is doomed to ETERNAL hellfire, nor can we as humans know who Allah will forgive and who He will not forgive. To assume that we know this is totally wrong.

I was not comparing Allah to a father, I was stating that even humans will do things when they know what the outcome will be. If we, Allah's creation do so, how can we ever question His purpose? We don't know. The Quran states that many things will be revealed to us on the Day of Judgement. We don't even truly know what these things may be, but perhaps for those who seek this type of knowledge they will receive it. Only God these things.

What we do know is that God is Oft-Forgiving. The Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate. We do know that God will not punish us or reward us for any but our own actions. We know that you must be of sound mind and able to understand  what you are doing to be held accountable. We know these things because God has told us these things.  

Do we know if God is unchanging? Unchanging in what way? We do not even comprehend God. How could we ever assume anything about God other than what He has told us? There are no analogies to explain God because the human mind is not possible of this type of comprehension.

If you choose to believe or not believe in God, that is completely up to you. There is no compulsion in religion. But, once you have heard the Word of God and refuse to believe it, it is on your own head.

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

SubhanAllah, u wont believe but as my daily recitation it was Surah Jin i was reciting and Alhamdulillah i found

[Yusufali 72:23] "Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages: for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger,- for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein for ever."

n u were askin bout His Mercy, if conquest is true to follow the guidance and u have belief that Him being Most Mercifull will guide u then in little things u get help n believe me it delights the inner most part of ur soul in a way that u can neva imagine, pray that Allah swt blesses u, us n every1 with sincere desire with his guidance and right path. ameen

wassalam

Mishmish said:
========
Scientifically we are taught that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. It is Newton's Third Law.

What if you do a murder and never get caught? What if you spend your entire life molesting small children and never get caught? You have taken the action, what is the equal but opposite reaction? Do you think there will be no consequences for these actions ever?

If you have no punishment for these actions on this earth, when will you be punished? When you will face the consequences of what you do?
====

Adding what mismish said, why we need a "Devinne justice" :

Let say someone kill 2 peoples, we give him a dead penalty. How about if somebody kill 10 peoples, how we will punish him 5 times more severe penalty? Can we give them 5 times dead penalties?

Peace

Semar

Hello George,

The problem which you've stated here is an old philosophical problem regarding attributes. The problem with even explaining attributes is because consequently, we will attribute to God in some way a likeness to ours. When we think of love, or compassion we don't think of a quality beyond our comprehension we very much comprehend these attributes. We tend to poeticize God by mentioning various attributes and although this is nothing but reverence for God, our words are still not even on equal footing. I take the position of Averroes and Moses Maimonides on the thought that reverence for God is mankind's own way of expressing itself to a divine entity which words and eyes cannot comprehend.

I myself truly believe this.

There are serveral pieces of evidence that proves that God merely communicates to us in languages we understand case in point, the human language. All cultures on the planet had their respective prophets who God had inspired to deliver his message. The message which was revealed was in the language of the people. God and man can directly communicate however mankind's mind capacity is too limited to comprehend even a fraction of divine wisdom.

Point being is that attibuting things to God such as "All-powerful" and the like are mere descriptions of characteristics which we at least understand. To me God is beyond the human language. Even to call God, GOD is not even totally correct. Therefore the best possible way to make some understanding of this is to attribute to God, consequently the things that are comprehensible to us, unfortunately doing so will result in the problematic questioning we have thus come to here.

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

well u carry on bout wanting to know the truth but u dont really try r not hard enuf, u have problem with the concept of Lord being Merciful and yet punishing at the same time with eternal hell fire, if u really want to know the truth then sincere advice take bite size, we muslims dont just believe that God is Merciful we also believe that He is Just and will judge us according to our deeds, now what would u say bout a ruler who makes law for people not to steal and do fraud but when some1 does it he says im too kind i forgive u? what is the response of people who earned hard living and abide by their ruler's law?

u ever thought that u coming to this forum might be mercy from ur Lord, although u mock Him yet he gives u opportunity to learn the truth? i asked u a question whether u want to know why we choose to believe some person's claim to be a Prophet (as) if u sincere then answer to as what i asked but if u only here to debate n refute then as my dear Prophet Sayyidina Muhammad (saw) was told to say, for u is ur religion and for mine is mine

wassalam

fatima wrote: u ever thought that u coming to this forum might be mercy from ur Lord, although u mock Him yet he gives u opportunity to learn the truth? wassalam

Perhaps it could be the other way around  but no you wouldn't think that now would you

Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatu Allahi Wa Barakatuh,

I have't had the chance to read all the posts on this topic but i just wanted to say that the fourth point does not contradict the first three. Allh (God) is all powerful and all knowing, He is also compassionate and loves His creations. Yet He is ultimately good - He is absolute good. Thus His Justice overrides His compassion. To put in in sinpler form, a father loves his son, but when his son does something bad, he punishes him. Punishing the sun does not undermine his compassion. Also if the son turn totally against his father, this compassion might seize to exist. But God is all merciful one might say. True, but He will show his mercy to those who deserve it - those who err and repent. That is why in Islam we believe that as long as you repent for any sin you have done, Allah shall forgive you. The trick is to repent before you die or else you'll get punished - and you never know when you're going to die.

If on the other hand we assume that God is all knowing, all powerful, yet does not punish the sinners due to his compassion, we would be contradicting ourselves. Firstly that would mean that His compassion overrides His ability to judge. Secondly, it would be saying that because He as very compassionate, He will let everyone go for their sins, which is unfair to others who have been hurt by these sins directly or indirectly. How does God turning a blind eye to the harm they have faced show compassion to them? Thats why in order to be absolutely good, justice has to override compassion.

Finally, one might ask if God knows what every person will do beforehand then why punish them when He could have prevented them from doing it in the first place. The reason is, God will not judge any person  before having them do the sin because ultimately that means that He would be punishing a person for a sin that hasn't been done. So why create them in the first place? Well one shouldnt forget that as He created them he also gave them free will and rationale enough to make them choose the right path. So ultimately, them ending up in hell was their choice and not God's wrong doing.

Harry well read my post as all of what you've (and many others said here) prove my point. I don't think we as humans truly understand the God the phenomenal being. Attributing things to him is only limiting God. Although God has mentioned the attributes (or names) in the Qur'an, these are comprehensives for us to understand him, in partial. Although we we talk about mercy in this case we attribute to God mercy in the idea we think it means and applies to God. However in mentioning the sinner it is possible that God can pardon the sinner on the day of judgement for a particular reason unknown to us. Just because God is merciful, doesn't mean we know the totality of his mercy.

Again here is where the limitation of our minds comes into play.

We all know that God is the designer of A universe, however do we know that he hasn't designed other universes? All we have known is that ther eexist a universe which we live in and we comprehend. Similar with his mercy. If we knew the totality of his mercy then we would know God in this respect and to know God in the total sense on this trait would greatly contradict the Quranic verse: "vision comprehends him not but (HE) comprehends all vision.

Although we may not physically see God's mercy because such is an intangible, we can mentally comprehend and even physically describe God's mercy. So here I don't think any of us can truly pose the question nor try to contradict God's attributes. Anyone can contradict the argument about God being all-knowing and all-powerful. That is a given. Anyone can defend the attributes of omnipotence but with bringing these arguments we only argue on the basis of what we perceive to be mercy and knowledge. Can anyone prove otherwise? I would think not and in fact would give $100 bucks to anyone who can prove, without using what they perceive mercy or knowledge is, and prove God's mercy in otherways.

I would say, glorifying words to God is not enough because he is so great and although there are some things we can partially understand, it is only due to our mind's limited capacity.

Again Harry..... you are missing the point

Even when God are giving us his attribues these are comprehensive attributes which we can partially identify God by. What I mean by identify I mean that which is necessary to understand not necessarily try to figure out. True God is All-knowing and knows th sinner's actions aforehand and although God has the will to not create such an individual he still does. Why? These are the great mysteris of asking such philosophical questions. However I don't think of these philosophical issues. I tend to look at these attributes as guiding points in understanding something about God.

I can make a whole arguement in defense of God's attributes but I'm merely stating that why go this far?

Harry wrote: I see some people missed the point I was making. So let me try to clarify. Is it more merciful to let someone be born that will burn for an eternity, even after the most wonderful short-lived life possible here on earth? Or is it more merciful to simply not allow such a being to exist in the first place? I say, do not allow me to exist at all, if you will condemn me to hell for any period of time.

Actually, you are missing the point. You are condemning yourself to the hellfire or not.  You have free will and can choose which way you go.

Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatu Allahi Wa Barakatuh,

God does not send people to hellfire out of the joy of it. It is true that God can prevent these people from existing in the first place because he knows what they will be doing, but you seem to be missing the point. This is their choice. He gave them the freedom to choose and thats what they chose so He will give to them.

As for proof that the Quran is really sent from Allah and that Mohammed is a prophet, well its easy. All you have to do is look up some of the scientific miracles mentioned in the Quran. The Quran is full of verses (and so is Hadeeth) that mention scientific facts that were only known to man hundreds of years later. Also keep in mind that the prophet was illiterate. So there is no way he or any human could have written this book. It has to bne a divine revelation. For example search up Dr. Kieth Moore on the net. He is a pioneer in the field of embroyolgy, who as also an athiest and when someone presented some Quranic verses to him a few years ago depicting scientific facts about embroyology, he said that if he was presented with these verses 30 years earlier, he would not have been able to decide whether they were true or not because science wasn't advanced enough to help discover these facts. Soon after that he reverted to Islam. The examples are many. Visit http://www.irf.net - www.irf.net and you will find many many more examples.

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

JazakAllah khair brother Ahmed for the link, i was trying to find something similar.

hi harry, i was just wondering whether u actually have ever read a Book which its people call divine? anyway now u got chance to actually c the proof and then come and tell us what u think

wassalam 

Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahamtu Allahi Wa Barakatuh,

youre most welcome sister fatima.

Israfil wrote: Well this is why I don't believe that humans have 'free will' in the sense of the word, but have the capcity to act.

just exactly what is this supposed to mean, israfil?  if humans do not have free will, then they can only act according to a pre-determined course.  in which case, what does the "capacity to act" mean?  surely if your statement is true,  they cannot avoid acting the way they do, in which case it must be said they have no capacity at all to act other than they do.  what kind of capacity is this?