Us and God.
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4539
Printed Date: 22 November 2024 at 5:52pm
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Topic: Us and God.
Posted By: superme
Subject: Us and God.
Date Posted: 22 April 2006 at 3:04pm
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I believe we are so familiar with this phrase or at least we have heard it: "A picture is worth thousand words" or million words. Now I am going to use this primitive picture as an example to convey, I don't know what do you see from this picture. Feel free to say whatever.
Us God |
Replies:
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 22 April 2006 at 3:08pm
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Bismillah, Why do you have God, Allah, so far away from Us? ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: superme
Date Posted: 22 April 2006 at 4:01pm
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Mashaallah sister. Ok I will redraw it to make Us and God closer, with dashes. Are they any different? Us---------------------------------------------------------- ------God |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 23 April 2006 at 3:43am
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Bismillah, Yes. This illustrates the constant connection between us and God. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: fredifreeloader
Date Posted: 23 April 2006 at 7:48am
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here is the correct and only connection- ***edited*** ------------- for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16 |
Posted By: superme
Date Posted: 23 April 2006 at 4:48pm
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Fredi, why are we not allow to connect ourselves directly to him? |
fredifreeloader wrote:Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 23 April 2006 at 5:46pm
you are wrong here is the correct and only connection- ***edited*** Join the chosen people today.  |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 24 April 2006 at 4:28am
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Bismillah, Interfaith dialogue is a place for communication, not non-Muslim proselytizing like this: here is the correct and only connection- ***edited*** ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 24 April 2006 at 5:53am
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herjihad, That is very true. In Islam, it is all direct between a Muslim and God Almighty. Direct Connection without the need of any go-between. BR & Salaam Alaikum BMZ |
Posted By: fredifreeloader
Date Posted: 24 April 2006 at 6:07am
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how on earth can that be, bmz - even muhammad did not receive direct communication from allah, it required the go-between of jibreel. are you more privileged than muhammad? ------------- for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16 |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 24 April 2006 at 7:08am
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Bismillah, Allah, The All-Powerful, communicates directly to everyone's souls. It is up to us whether we listen or not. Allah, The Most Loving, communicates to us ALSO through prophets and messengers as a Mercy and a Blessing to us. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: fredifreeloader
Date Posted: 24 April 2006 at 10:38am
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herjihad - let me give you a quotation from your muslim brother/sister bmzsp, from the "who is the Comforter?" thread - "How God communicates with people is another matter. That is via a courier. Call him Gabriel, the holy spirit." note that he/she states that communication by allah is via a courier, namely gabriel, the holy spirit. can you make any comment on this? --bear in mind you have said that communication by allah is direct. this can only mean, if bmzsp is correct, that gabriel is allah ------------- for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16 |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 4:47am
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fredi, Please don't take it out of the context of the topic. God spoke to his prophets or messengers through one Angel only and that Angel is Gabriel. I called Gabriel a courier of God's messages. How could that mean Gabriel is Allah? God spoke only with Moses direct according to Qur'aan. Communication by God is not through writers, no matter how "inspired" they are or were. |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 4:48am
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I am a he. What are you, fredi? |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:22am
Fredi: I have seen the oppression of my people on this forum, and have heard their cry, so I have come down to deliver them out of slavery. And bring them to a good land...a land flowing with milk and honey...And so, unto islamicity, I shall send you. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:50am
Bismillah, Hee Hee! Peace Brother! ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: fredifreeloader
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 8:50am
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yes bmz - i had you down as a he - you sound much too tolerant to be a female. i am also a he ------------- for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16 |
Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 8:56am
AK, that gets 5 laughies. Good job. |
Posted By: Mishmish
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 8:57am
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Now there's a "tolerant" statement.... ------------- It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince) |
Posted By: fredifreeloader
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 9:04am
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so, herjihad, will you now revise your opinion that "allah, the all-powerful, communicates directly to everyones soul", given the fact that bmz has stated that according to the quran, "God spoke only to moses direct"? also, bmz, you are now calling gabriel an angel. yes you did say he was a courier of Gods messages. but, you also called him the holy spirit. whose spirit exactly? -----btw i do hope the tenders you have to submit will be successful ------------- for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16 |
Posted By: fredifreeloader
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 9:06am
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yes i was hoping to slip that one in without you noticing, mish........ ------------- for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16 |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 1:16pm
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Bismillah,
 For Fred THE MAN!
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything AT ALL! ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 8:48pm
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ak_m_f, That was indeed a good one, brother Moses. I give it a Five-Star rating.
BR & salaam Alaikum BMZ
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Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 8:49pm
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fredi, From you: "also, bmz, you are now calling gabriel an angel. yes you did say he was a courier of Gods messages. but, you also called him the holy spirit. whose spirit exactly? -----btw i do hope the tenders you have to submit will be successful." "whose spirit exactly?" His (Gabriel's) own, fredi. According to Qur'aan, angels never disobey God Almighty and they carry out their duties faithfully to God Almighty as they are told. Qur'aan mentions only two angels by name, Gabriel and Michael only. As they are in the form of spirits and we really don't know in what exact form they exist, we can say they are the Spirits from God. Likewise Gabriel is the Holy Spirit from God Almighty. However, Gabriel or anyone is not the Spirit of God for God has to have his own Spirit within. Thanks for your best wishes. I do stand a good chance to beat 'em all. Will let you know of success, if any.
BR BMZ |
Posted By: fredifreeloader
Date Posted: 27 April 2006 at 9:24am
oh for goodness sake, herjihad...... ------------- for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16 |
Posted By: fredifreeloader
Date Posted: 27 April 2006 at 9:37am
so you are saying that gabriel is not the holy spirit, but a holy spirit. im sure you can understand how confusion could arise (among christians at any rate) by calling him the holy spirit, which you did. i take it then, that as he is a spirit, that muhammad did not actually see him or hear a voice (with his ears, that is). (or are these 2 spirits able to take on bodily form?)----////// i also fail to see how allah could communicate with everybodys soul, yet had to go through gabriel to speak to muhammad. could he not just have communicated directly to him as he did with moses? ------------- for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16 |
Posted By: zulqarnain
Date Posted: 30 April 2006 at 11:45pm
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Listen up fredi, I am going to meet you everywhere I can. Gabriel's duty is to CONVEY the REVELATIONS to Allah's prophets. When Allah talked to Moses directly, like e.g. Moses wanted to see Allah with his eyes. Then Allah told Moses it is not possible for Moses to see Him in such a state. Do you know why? Because then Allah showed him part of His Light, the earth and the muntains shook and Moses fainted.
Such conversations between a Prophet and Allah does not need Gabriel. Secondly, Muhammad (SAWW) saw and heard Gabriel. Gabriel even thought him how to perform abulution before prayers. ------------- And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107) |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 01 May 2006 at 1:01am
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Hi fredi, From you: "so you are saying that gabriel is not the holy spirit, but a holy spirit. im sure you can understand how confusion could arise (among christians at any rate) by calling him the holy spirit, which you did. i take it then, that as he is a spirit, that muhammad did not actually see him or hear a voice (with his ears, that is). (or are these 2 spirits able to take on bodily form?)----////// i also fail to see how allah could communicate with everybodys soul, yet had to go through gabriel to speak to muhammad. could he not just have communicated directly to him as he did with moses?" No, no, I am not saying that! In Moses' case it was extremely important that God appeared before Moses and spoke direct. God even did not speak to Jesus direct or met him or showed himself to him. That was the reason that the Jews got bolder day by day in their persecution of Jesus. Had God done so or shown support to Jesus, we would not have the aborted ministry and the terminated mission of Jesus. The reason to talk to Moses was to show Moses that God the mightiest was no fiction and to strengthen Moses to be bold and strong enough to take the mighty Pharoah and his hosts head-on alone, as the time had come to get the poor persecuted children of Israel out of Egypt. Talking to Moses through angel would not have helped under those circumstances and would not have done the job. Best Regards BMZ |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 01 May 2006 at 5:37am
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"Gabriel is thus the Spirit of Truth who has two names." Bismillah, Oh, yeah. Thanks. Al-Ruh Allah is Gabriel. A name for Gabriel, not the spirit of Allah that stays inside Allah, SWT! ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |