I am a 28 year old confused man. My father died when I was a little baby so I never had a male role model at all, I was raised by my mother and grandmother and I question my role as a parent and as a man. I came to the western world and what ever male self worth has been ultimately destroyed, now that I know I am nothing more than a sperm donor, why do we need men? That is the question I keep asking myself, it is always on my mind, sleeping, praying, why do we need sons, they are burden not joy, and science are able to make it that two women together could have daugthers without the need of a man. So..why are we working hard saving the men, the males and why not we just eliminate them and keep the human race as females? That is the question the triggers on mind, can you help me? Are men nothing more than sperm donors? Do we need them?

Yours truly, a very confused muslim brother. (Sometimes I wished I was not a man, that is how I am confused.)

foody wrote: I am a 28 year old confused man. My father died when I was a little baby so I never had a male role model at all, I was raised by my mother and grandmother and I question my role as a parent and as a man. I came to the western world and what ever male self worth has been ultimately destroyed, now that I know I am nothing more than a sperm donor, why do we need men? That is the question I keep asking myself, it is always on my mind, sleeping, praying, why do we need sons, they are burden not joy, and science are able to make it that two women together could have daugthers without the need of a man. So..why are we working hard saving the men, the males and why not we just eliminate them and keep the human race as females? That is the question the triggers on mind, can you help me? Are men nothing more than sperm donors? Do we need them?   Yours truly, a very confused muslim brother. (Sometimes I wished I was not a man, that is how I am confused.)

Bismillah,

Brother you posted this in the brother's section, but as a sister I will tell you that men are addressed in the Holy Quran, and therefore necessary, relevant, important and multi-functional.

I had no role model as a woman, but I know how to be one.  I try my best, and you should also.  You were lucky to have people love you.  They set an example of how PEOPLE love, and we are all people.

salman wrote: without women , a man would feel very lonely and without a man , a women would feel very lonely. when Allah created Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) Prophet Adam felt loneliness on earth as he was alone so Allah created for Prophet Adam eve (Hawwa) so that Prophet Adam would not feel lonely. and now the people who have lived, are living and would be living on earth r the offsprings of Adam and Eve. u cannot question as to why there r men on earth or as to why there r women on earth. Allah has created both man and woman and Allah knows best what is right

Bismillah,

Brother Salman,

This is truly beautiful.  JazzakAllahKhayr.

foody wrote: I am a 28 year old confused man. My father died when I was a little baby so I never had a male role model at all, I was raised by my mother and grandmother and I question my role as a parent and as a man. I came to the western world and what ever male self worth has been ultimately destroyed, now that I know I am nothing more than a sperm donor, why do we need men? That is the question I keep asking myself, it is always on my mind, sleeping, praying, why do we need sons, they are burden not joy, and science are able to make it that two women together could have daugthers without the need of a man. So..why are we working hard saving the men, the males and why not we just eliminate them and keep the human race as females? That is the question the triggers on mind, can you help me? Are men nothing more than sperm donors? Do we need them?   Yours truly, a very confused muslim brother. (Sometimes I wished I was not a man, that is how I am confused.)

Assalamu Alaikum:

Brother, what a sad place the world would be without men. Who would women blame everything on? Who would we complain to each other about? Who would really believe that a light blue shirt, green pants and brown socks look good together?  Who would kill the bugs or open tight jars? Who would take out the trash, or make you ask them to take it out 20 times?

We need you guys. You keep us amused and amazed.

salman wrote: without women , a man would feel very lonely and without a man , a women would feel very lonely. when Allah created Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) Prophet Adam felt loneliness on earth as he was alone so Allah created for Prophet Adam eve (Hawwa) so that Prophet Adam would not feel lonely. and now the people who have lived, are living and would be living on earth r the offsprings of Adam and Eve. u cannot question as to why there r men on earth or as to why there r women on earth. Allah has created both man and woman and Allah knows best what is right

Islamicity Coucil of Feminism highly critisize these words(ICOF-Brother Suleyman-Head Feminisit)

...Jazak Allah Khair...

Well feminism is an excellent sign of the minor signs of qiyama anyways, i.e, women conspire.

* giggles * Oh I am so happy to be a muslim, THANK YOU ALLAH for putting my soul in a muslim family, muslim body, thank you Allah! * wipes tears from my eyes *

All the muslim people should always and constantly pray and thank God for been a muslim...that is the biggest gift God gives a person to be born in a muslim family, muslim country.

Foody,

Women need men just as much as men need women. We balance eachother out. Women would not like it if this were an world made up of only women. Of course, there have been times when I thought the Amazons knew what they were talking about :)

So, don't be so down on yourself and life in general. You are need here as much as women are needed here. And I have a little son and he is not a "burden" he is one of the greatest joys in my life and I could not imagine my life without him now!

Take care,

Lameese

See? Here is where I think the Amazons had the right idea *Refering to above post*

ALso, there are a lot of female CEO's. Female invertors? Where do you live? Under a rock? Female geniuses? Again, where is your rock located? Ever taken Pinicillin? Discovered by a woman, man took credit for it.

Sure, toss the pig skin around, wrestle and grunt like an ape, be a male.

Lameese

Assalamu Alaikum!

Wouldn't it be better for us if we simply recognize that Allah has blessed both men and women in specific ways. "Specific" in the sense that there are certain things that men can do, but women can't, and Women can do, but men can't. And there are also things that both men and women can do.

002.177
YUSUFALI: It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.

Megatron wrote: As for a woman inventing Penicillin. I'd have to strongly disagree with that.  I don't get my information from feminist pamphlets.  Look up Alexander Fleming if you want the real inventor. As for me living under a rock, I actually don't.  I have a degree in Immunology and Medicine.  From what I know, most people who live under rocks can't usually achieve those things.

Don't imply that I get my info from "feminist pamphlets" because you do not agree with what I have said. I know who Flemming is. Now do some homework of your own and read what actually happened. His nurse discovered it and as is the male way, he took and got credit for it.

What is your "Medicine" degree?

Lameese

Megatron wrote:   The vast majority of sources don't mention this nurse whatsoever.  A degree in medicine here in North America is called an MD(medical doctorate).  It allows one to practice medicine.  Diagnosing illnesses and writing prescriptions.  I did a residency in family medicine.  I also have a BSc in Immunology.  Maybe I should send you my academic transcripts and my degrees too.   Would you like my license number as well?

"The vast Majority do not even mention this Nurse"  Think about this statment. Nuff said.

Also, is English your first Language??? Because you told me you had a degree in Medicine, not that you were a Medical Doctor. A degree in Medicine can be in any field. Pharmacology, Dental, Nursing, PA, Occupational and Physical Therapy, ect... And I was born and raised in North America. Where were you born and raised and from which country did you recieve your M.D.? Your Degree means nothing to me but your liscence #, oh yeah, give that to me, I would love to contact the AMA.

Lameese

foody wrote: Lameese, no offense speaking but aren't you a little bit arrogant there.  What if his degree is not in America does that make his degree less of a degree? What would you do exactly if you obtained his license #? Have him fired? Isn't that vendictive?

Nope, not being arrogant here. It does not make his degree less at all but it tells me where he is coming from in terms of his attitude. See, I also have a degree in Medicine :) So, I was just curious about where he got his and where he is from. Also, you cannot have a MD fired. All you can really do is make a formal complaint, unless there is gross neligence, then we are talking court time.

So, no I was not arrogant and no I am not vendictive.

Lameese

Megatron, dear: ( I honestly believed that such impoverished thinking as yours had vanished from most of the planet!)  Just one last post before I go home for the weekend.  I just can't resist it:

Without women, none of your male CEO's, inventors - oh, and let's not forget Presidents, shall we? - would  have been born to do all those oh-so-wonderful things you cite(which historically a completely male-dominant education system has allowed them).

For that matter, neither would you be able to post such nonsense!

That's Cassandra, over and out!

(I take it you do have a mother?  Or are you another one who needs to be deprogrammed, like Ops?)

Megatron wrote:

"Men are superior to women in many respects...whether this is a result of nurture or nature is up for debate."

But Brother Foody accuses Sister Lameese of being arrogant? Interesting... Perhaps because she's being an uppity woman?

@Mishmish

I did not read what megatron said as I do not check this form as often but my statement applies for both gender, no one is superior than the other but everyone is different for that role.  My statement of hating arrogance goes for both sides, both for the male and the female...I don't like arrogance on people nor do I like it on me..and if I ever showed one...SLAP me on the face for it....I will accept it with a happy face.  Megatron is wrong, he shows arrogance as well.  Thank you sister Mismish for pointing out.

Lamese I've never heard of a degree in Pharmacology, OT, PT or any other of the health professional degrees as being referred to as a degree in "medicine".  Usually when someone has a degree in medicine they have an MD, MBBS, or BM.  Some countries like England don't give out medical doctorates, they give out Bachelors in Medicine, however, they practice in the same way that medical doctorates in North America do.  In fact, one of my professors is a BM from Oxford.  He could not say he had a medical doctorate, but he said he had a degree in "medicine".  He practices at one of the hospitals and is extremely well respected.  I have a pharmacist friend who says he has a degree in "pharmacy".  I've never heard a pharmacist say they have a degree in medicine.  If they did such a thing it would be considered a professional indiscretion.   

If you must know my history, I was born and raised in Canada.  I've lived here for most of my life and I also practice medicine here.  I also obtained my MD degree in Canada.  So complaining to the AMA would do you no good.  As for medical schools in Canada, they tend to be ranked quite high in the Gourmand report. 

English is my first and only language.  I don't consider my English very poor.  I don't see anything erroneous with the sentence, "The vast majority of sources don't mention this nurse whatsoever".  I was only allowing for the probability that a source may have listed this nurse which you referred to. 

It's sad that you have to make personal attacks on me as an individual.  Usually when someone is losing an argument they tend to make personal attacks on people because they are ill-equipped to discuss the issues at hand.    

In regards to the insults directed at me I'm just pointing out obvious traits that men and women display.  Men have achieved a lot more than women have in society.  It is the plain truth.

Did I ever say that women achieved nothing?  No I did not.  I've constantly maintained that in the estimations of material success and power, men have achieved a great deal more than women have.  I did not even claim that this trait that men possess is purely genetic.  I allowed for the fact that women may have the potential to achieve as much as men but that due to the nurture aspect of human development, this ability may have been subdued.  

If you want to hear a sugar-coated politically correct version of the world, where women are equal to men, then you are denying the truth.

Megatron wrote: It's sad that you have to make personal attacks on me as an individual.  Usually when someone is losing an argument they tend to make personal attacks on people because they are ill-equipped to discuss the issues at hand.

Are you mental???? I did not make a personal attack on you. And the same could be said for you "Usually when someone is loosing an argument ect" Now you are accusing me of making a personal attack? Believe me, if I were to make a personal attack, there would be no confusion about it! And believe me, I am not "ill-equipped" to talk to you or anyone else on this board.  Maybe you had better stop trying soooo hard to try to "put me in my place."

Also, here a degree in Medicine can mean almost anything. That is why I asked if English was your first language and that is why I asked what was your degree in Medicine. A Doctor here would never say he had a degee in Medicine, he would say I am an M.D.

Lameese

Megatron wrote: In regards to the insults directed at me I'm just pointing out obvious traits that men and women display.  Men have achieved a lot more than women have in society.  It is the plain truth. Did I ever say that women achieved nothing?  No I did not.  I've constantly maintained that in the estimations of material success and power, men have achieved a great deal more than women have.  I did not even claim that this trait that men possess is purely genetic.  I allowed for the fact that women may have the potential to achieve as much as men but that due to the nurture aspect of human development, this ability may have been subdued.   If you want to hear a sugar-coated politically correct version of the world, where women are equal to men, then you are denying the truth.

Hmmmmmm, well in the past since we only have History (His Story) to guide us then we will never really know all of what women did accomplish. Also, there is that nasty little thing of men taking credit for a lot of things in the past that were not their discoveries, but again, we will never know now.

Also, where were you insulted or put down or personally attacked?

Lameese

"A Doctor here would never say he had a degee in Medicine, he would say I am an M.D."

Example: You're from England.  You have a BM.  You want to practice in Canada.  You write the foreign licensing exam, pass it and are allowed to practice medicine.  Someone comes up to you and asks, "what did you do your degree in?"  You would have to respond, "I have a degree in medicine".  You could not say, I am an MD. 

I work in a hospital.  If someone with a degree in pharmacy, nursing, occupational therapy, physical therapy or dentistry said that they had a degree in "medicine", they would be misleading the hospital staff and be disciplined by the hospital and their professional licensing body.  In a similar vein, if I said I had a degree in dentistry, I would undergo the same form of punishment.  

Degrees and licensing confer special privleges. Pharmacists for example have the privlege to dispense and counsel medications.  If you are not an MD, MBBS or BM and you say you have a degree in "medicine", you are commiting a crime because you are misleading people into thinking that you have the right to diagnose and prescribe.  

Ok, I understand all that and know all of that. What I am telling you is that here, a M.D. would say just that. A degree in Medicine could mean almost anything, here, in the USA. It is, granted, a generic response but it could be said. That is why here we say what is your degree in Medicine in. Are we clear yet?

Lameese

Personal attacks and insults are a very subjective definition.  It is pointless to argue that point.  Suffice to say that I have been personally insulted by you Lamese and others on this discussion because of my apparent misogynistic views. 

I expected this response anyways.  The truth hurts people and when people are hurt they lash out.  I was hoping people would be civil and attempt to refute my arguments instead of asking if I "English is my first language" or if "I'm mental". 

No we are not clear on that Lameese.  When someone says they have a degree in medicine, they have either an MD, MBBS, or BM.  If someone says they have a degree in medicine they have an MD, MBBS, or BM and are eligible for licensing exams, which upon passing confers the individual the right to practice medicine.

Lamese you said that "A degree in Medicine can be in any field. Pharmacology, Dental, Nursing, PA, Occupational and Physical Therapy,".  That is not true and it is illegal for those health care professionals to make that claim.  When the AMA lists requirements of licensing it asks for a "degree in medicine" not just an MD. 

If a pharmacist said, "I have a degree in medicine in the field of pharmacy", they'd be laughed at. Legally a pharmacist must say that "I have a degree in pharmacy".  Also it is an insult to consider that pharmacy or any of the other disciplines is a sub-discipline of medicine.  Pharmacy, nursing etc. is a discipline in its own right.  Many of my pharmacist and nurse friends would be insulted if their profession was considered under the umbrella of medicine. 

MDs, MBBS, and BM are the only people who can legally make the claim that they have a "degree in medicine".

Brother Megatron:

Your views are yours, however mysogynistic and antiquated they may be. You should hold to them proudly. Why not? It probably makes you feel better and very popular with the ladies.

Yes, history does show that men have accomplished more than women in a materialistic way and with a view to power. But history also shows that men have tried to keep women subdued, barefoot, and pregnant. This has been successful in most cases. Take a good look at the world we live in. By your own admission, men have most of the power, so see what ye have wrought.

Wars and hunger and sickness. Death and destruction at every turn. Go ahead, take the credit. As a woman, I am more than happy to oblige you.

Yes, men may have made great strides in modern invention: nuclear weapons, tanks, missiles, bullets, anthrax(now there's a good one), holes in the ozone and fish full of mercury, oh mercy, mercy me...

Rape, I think a man invented rape... Man invented murder: Cain and Abel... who invented all of those instruments of torture used during the Inquisitions: it was men! In fact, I think it was a male Pope who came up with the whole idea to begin with. Ingenious little buggar, wasn't he?

Well, the list of inventions by men could just go on and on. A proud history and one that you should rightly claim.

Brother Foody,

I don't hate men. But, if you want to be King of the World, you have to accept the bad with the good. Men have been busy little bees inventing all sorts of interesting things.

Brother, why are women evil when we just want the rights that Allah(SWT) gave us? No more, no less? Who took those rights away? Men. Now if a woman wants them back, she's evil and manly and doesn't know her place. I know my place, and it's not ten paces behind any man.

This is why some men don't want to educate women. Because once we are educated we are harder to control. We know the truth, that Allah(SWT) has given us rights mutual to men's rights, and the truth shall set us free.

You misunderstand if you think having equal rights with men is the same as being a man.

For once I agree with Mishmish...LOL

Israfil wrote: For once I agree with Mishmish...LOL

Wait, can this be true....

Assalamu Alaikum!

Striving against any injustice is encouraged in Islam. While striving to achieve justice, we have to keep in mind the commands of Allah in Qur�an and life of Prophet ( SAW ). Islam gives specific position to both men and women. Saying that men and women are equal or not equal would not be appropriate comparison. Because Allah has blessed both genders in specific ways, and one is incomplete without another.

In order to give rights to women from oppression of men, it appears that societies are gradually heading to the other extreme. That is not the balanced society.

Men and women both should be given their due respect and rights as per dictates of Islam.

Peace

Megatron wrote, and I objected to it strongly: Summmarised

Men are superior to women in many respects...men make the world go around (gee, and they told me it was love! C.)...Men are CEO's, Presidents, Inventors, Geniuses etc.  "Whether it is a question of nature of nurture is up for debate".

I debated it! In a nutshell (and my answer, Foody, was to Megatron, not necessarily you unless you hold the same misguided beliefs).  I said that without mothers, not one of these exalted beings would be here to dominate the world stage, as they have for the thousands of years in which women have been denied  access to education (unless you count "Domestic Science!"), especially at the University level, (and why not add the right to vote).

My answer was largely tongue in cheek, as I couldn't believe there could be anyone still preaching the type of nonsense that Megatron wrote.

Foody, however, does not share my sense of humour, obviously:  He answered: If all (my emphasis)women think men are inferior creatures because they cannot have babies, because their live span are different and because their brain are not female..AND ALL OF THEM WHICH HE HAVE ABSOLUTLEY NO CONTROL OF WHAT SO EVER YET HE IS BLAMED FOR SOMETHING THAT GOD HAVE CREATED HIM...then I SWEAR it....I WILL NEVER MARRY A WOMAN IN MY LIFE.  WHY WOULD I? Give me a reason?

Did I cast aspersions on your masculinity/equality just because you "cannot have babies"? You also implied that I was arrogant.  I have my faults, many of them, but arrogance isn't one of them. I told you a simple truth, Foody, that's all.  And in all honesty, until you get that chip off your shoulder, no woman will want to marry you anyway, so I wouldn't worry yourself about it too much. (i.e. GOD! I give up with the opposite sex and I am not even married yet..yeach!!!!!) You've already decided how bad your marriage is going to be. Do some poor woman a favour, will you.  Don't ever, ever think about marriage again.  You don't have to. Really. I think it's best for everyone's mental health, don't you? Pull back and think before you get too high up on that horse of yours. (Sorry for the mixed metaphors!) By bringing your concerns to this forum, you have invited comments. These are (and were) mine.

We are not all ball-breaking feminists, for heaven's sake. I actually like men.  I respect most, as I respect most women. Some are not worth my attention. I have brought up two children alone with no monetary or emotional support, and am glad to have had the opportunity to become as strong and happy and capable as I am. And no, I only needed my resillience to get there, not a man.  Like it or lump it! I am not angry with my ex-husband (or men in general), just sorry he didn't avail himself of the opportunity to get to know his children (or me) better.  That's all. I put myself through university in my 30's, won lots of scholarships, and came out with two Master's degrees, and a lot of other letters aftrer my name which frankly, make me nervous.  That makes me a well educated, thoughtful, loving, survivor.  Not "superior":  just me.

Cassandra,

I agree with what you have said but I do believe you are spinning your wheels here. Foody, to me, is, more or less, exhibiting attention seeking behavior. It does not matter what kind of attention he recieves, good or bad, as long as he can argue. He makes these posts about women and femininity and then will argue with whatever is posted.

I think men need to realize that we do not need them, we want them to share our lives. There is a massive difference between need and want. Most men are raised to believe that they are everything in  the family and the wife is, more or less, like a servant. They cook, clean, have babies, and do laundry for the man and the family. Good for you for surviving and making it on your own. Good for you for educating yourself. And cudos to you for raising a family without constant help. You remind me of my mother because she taught all of the girls in our family to get an education that will support them so they can have choices and they will never be stuck in something that they cannot get out of.

Also, culture plays a large part in religion. To me I see culture first with religion mixed in. But it is usually the culture that runs the religion and not the other way around. It is sad really.

Lameese

Capital is challenging the simple truth that a child's relation with his or her biological father is valuable. The image of fathers has come under increasing attack, as more TV sit-coms feature fathers as incompetents ("The Simpsons" and "King of Queens" are current examples) and movie plots involve abusive fathers (The Breakfast Club, Affliction, and Daredevil to name only a few.) Many courageous women have long been forced by circumstances to raise their children alone. Now, however, as celebrities like Camryn Manheim (Ellenor of TV's hit lawyer show, "The Practice") choose to have and raise babies without a father (both in real life and as her fictional character, in the case of Manheim), Hollywood sends the message, "Who needs a father?" Academics deride fatherhood in books like Feminism, Children, and The New Families, in which Susan E. Krantz dismisses the notion that "two parents are necessary for the well-being of a child" and argues that "the role of the father is overemphasized." Academic "experts" are trying to split off Dad's "male presence" from the rest of him and make it just another commodity. Writing in the Journal of Marriage and the Family, Alan J. Hawkins and David J. Eggenbeen state, "Men may be important to children's healthy development, but biological fathers can readily be replaced by other adult men." (Cited in David Blankenhorn, Fatherless America, p. 80) Stepfathers may be nice people, but the claim that children have no need for a close relation with their biological father cannot bear the weight of common sense or scientific scrutiny.(For example, a study of 17,000 British children born in 1958 showed that children in step-families "experienced far worse outcomes than did children who grew up with their two biological parents." Blankenhorn, p. 191). The "any male will do" notion is ideologically driven by capital's desire to commodify men. This commodification of men is quite apparent in states like Massachusetts, where the "progressive" agenda is well advanced, and divorce courts aggressively separate fathers from their children. (The author has personal experience with Massachusetts' family courts.) Courts routinely restrain fathers from seeing their children, sometimes for years, without due process, evidentiary hearings, or the rules of evidence that are accorded accused criminals. The courts' attitude is that a father's only important relationship to his children is financial, so there's no real loss if a loving father is barred from seeing his children."

As well as downsizing mothers...more and more women feel that motherhood is opression, it easy to get rid of daddy..which it did work.....and now more and more mommy feel mother is A MAN MADE OPRESSION designed to supress women from her full potential. Am I getting this wrong or this again my means of attention? So you are saying we sit quietly by?

And by the way Lamesse if you wish to be the head of the house, be the head of the house...give me your role and I will take it with happiest of smile...there is no better role in life than motherhood, see how I no longer say fatherhood ><. The only condition I have is, if you  desire to get tired of me and wish to divorce me..that I have full custody of the children because I put my life and soul raising them while you went in the work force and provided the income.  Parenthood is the key for happier and longitivity life style if one most know this?

this debate is simple. some men are good and strong leaders some are not. Some women make better leaders and heads of househould because the men are sinning, or are lazy. It is not rocket science people.

Megatron isn't that arrogant there? Besides it is not men that have achieved so far, it is not women that achieved this far, it is by THE WELL OF GOD (Allah, the almighty, that have created the universe, the heavens and the earth) it is THROUGH GOD alone that we have achieved nice things and provided with nice things...Allah can easily take what was given by Allah, so don't act so big shut here mister..as Allah can reverse order in a snap.  Be proud of who you are yes, be happy of what the role of a man and the role of a female is, BUT DON'T YOU put down the roles of women, they have achieved as much as men have..just because a man fails to see it..it doesn't put her role any lesser than the men's role..not in one single bit.   The winner man is the man that respect his sister and his wife, he is the true winner and succesor and even his intellect will be superior.  We are in one flesh, remember that.   One other factor when we are giving this role it to FATHER our household and FATHER society, with this role we are suppose to help women, children and brothers alike to be on the good side, what ever benefits we are suppose to give to others, the FATHERLESS society and the self center, and the I am superior than you mentality and the gender war, and all of this...is doing corruption in multiple levels it is not even funny.

Now that is said, I agree in a sense that through the well of God, men have achieved lots of things..it just tiresome to know that as much as men achieves he is always unappreciate it...he is always put down, always murdered, abused and silenced. So much battered husbands out there, husbands who's children are taken out of his well, so much male bashing, anti-testosterone and so on....and after all what he have done through the well of God we only look at him in the darkest of light....yet he is the one who NEEDS the most love and support and the gentlest of touch.

foody wrote:   And by the way Lamesse if you wish to be the head of the house, be the head of the house...give me your role and I will take it with happiest of smile...there is no better role in life than motherhood, see how I no longer say fatherhood ><. The only condition I have is, if you  desire to get tired of me and wish to divorce me..that I have full custody of the children because I put my life and soul raising them while you went in the work force and provided the income.  Parenthood is the key for happier and longitivity life style if one most know this?

I never said women were oppressed. Women do EVERYTHING. We make sure the children have what they need, we make sure the house has what it needs, we make sure our husbands have what they need. Many men look for a wife like their mothers. Many men do not help in the household and this is bogus! Women have to work now days, unless her husband makes enough for the whole family. Also, if it is your child, ACT LIKE IT! Don't let the mom go for days on end without sleep, changing a multitude of diapers. Put your money where your mouth is and become an ACTIVE part of this childs life! Don't just hold this child when you "feel like it", be active with the child and help. Be a dad in the same way a mother is. The only way you are pushed aside by the female role is that you CHOOSE not to nurture your child. No one can make you not do something. It is your choice what how you are with your child. It is not just what females do and what mothers do, you have a CHOICE to do the same! TO say otherwise is an E X C U S E! A child is work, a lot of work. Mothers are usually the ones that do EVERYTHING. My husband would not know what to do if I died. Everything is done for him. All he has to do is get bottles out of the fridge and pick up the diaper bag. I am the one that makes the bottles, packs the diaper bag and has extra clothes in it. Once I asked him to get it all ready. I told him what to do and he still could not get it right. I told him, I cannot die because you do not understand what to do. This is not from God, this is the father using the excuse that it is the mother that is supposed to do all these things. You can train a monkey to do anything, but try training a man to take care of his child?????

Also, Downsizing dad???? One atricle and it is your truth and law??? YOU MAKE THE CHOICE HOW ACTIVE YOU ARE IN YOUR CHILDS LIFE! Now say that 3 times OUTLOUD!  The courts in the USA are giving all sorts of equal rights to the father concerning the children. There are a lot of wonderful men out there that want to be a part of their childs life and make the full EFFORT. But the sad reality is that once they are no longer with the child, visitations become less and less. Why? IT WAS THE FATHERS CHOICE!

Ok, Foody! Be a MAN and again, put your money where your mouth is! I am head of my house, I am the one that supports this whole household. I am the one that carries all the insurance. We live in a house that was mine before I married. My cars, everything was mine before I married. Now I am married, supporting my whole house and taking care of 2 children and doing all the dishes, housework, laundry and bill paying. So, be a man and do all of this! TAKE MY ROLE and let's see if you can handle it..........I do both roles, why? I do not have a choice and I love taking care of my family and I do not mind supporting my family! Do you realize I can never die? My family would not have and income, there would be no insurance for the Dr or medical care. Everything falls on me, so please Foody take my role!

Lameese

Megatron wrote: Foody, Then one must consider why God gave men this superiority.  What were the reasons behind it?

So this is from the Qur'an right? Men and women are not Islamically equal? Men are superior to women?

Lameese

Megatron wrote:

"As for men committing ills as a result of our power.  That is true we have committed wrongs.  But let it be known that women are in no way innocent beings in this world.  Go to Amsterdam's red light district and you can see how innocent they are."

So, you are comparing prostitution with creating weapons of mass destruction? I can see the comparison there.

I believe in Islam the man was given more physical strength to protect women and provide for them. Isn't this correct? Not to use this physical strength against women and keep them down.

Yes, throughout history men have been dominant because they were stronger and were not afraid to beat down those physically weaker than them. It's easy to say men have been more productive in the arts and sciences, when women were physically kept from attending schools. This practice is still going on in some countries. That men were more prolific in inventing and creating when women were not even legally allowed to claim their own ideas until recently. That men were historically in power and held more political office when women were not even allowed to vote until recently, and in many countries still do not have this right.

Do you think Allah(SWT) created men to be tyrants over women? An interesting thought since the Quran states otherwise.

Yes, there are prostitutes. Historically women have been taught that the only real power they have over men is sexual. Until Islam, that is. Allah(SWT) made it clear that women are not just sinful, sexual beings with no rights. Allah made us equal, and 1400 years ago this was made clear. Too bad you, and those like you, just haven't been paying attention.

I would just like to add that Muslims everywhere try diligently to convince non-Muslims that women are not oppressed in Islam. That women have rights in Islam. That Allah(SWT) gave Muslim women rights 1400 years ago that women in the West have only achieved in the last 100 years.

I believe with all of my heart that this is true. Allah(SWT) did give women these rights. Unfortunately for humanity, men have chosen to ignore the Word of Allah(SWT) and believe that they are superior. Against the Word of Allah(SWT) who created them, they have continued on in this ignorance and actually feel superior in stating they are superior. But how does this really make you feel? To believe something that Allah(SWT) has stated is not true? Do you feel superior to Allah(SWT)?

I would just like to add that
Muslims�everywhere try diligently to convince�non-Muslims that
women are not oppressed in Islam. That women have rights in
Islam. That Allah(SWT) gave Muslim women rights 1400 years
ago that women in the West have only achieved in the last 100
years.

I believe with all of my heart that this is true. Allah(SWT) did
give women these rights. Unfortunately for humanity, men have
chosen to ignore the Word of Allah(SWT) and believe that they
are superior. Against the Word of Allah(SWT) who created
them, they have continued on in this ignorance and actually
feel superior in stating they are superior. But how does this
really make you feel? To believe something that Allah(SWT)
has stated is not true? Do you feel superior to Allah(SWT)?

Brother Israfil:

I was addressing Megatron. I did write this: "Too bad you, and those like you, just haven't been paying attention."

If you feel that this applies to/identifies you somehow, I am sorry.

Ok, first the gender issue thing, now the Devil?!?! Maybe you need a Psyciatrist and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

Again, it is a human choice to be a bigot and a highly educated idiot. The Devil did not make Megatron be a self-important, i.d ego seeking  male, the devil did not make you question your gender and the devil does not speak for us. We do this to us. The Devil just picks up the pieces...........

Lameese

Ummmmmmmm just a thought...........how do you ever get your ego through the door to go anywhere?

Lameese

Megatron, I am assuming by what you write that you are not a Muslim. A Muslim would have more fear of Allah(SWT)

Sister Lameese, I have nothing more to say to this man. I my opinion, responding to him is useless, and probably feeds some deep seated irrational fear he has that woman are actually better than him so he must use every opportunity to feel smug and superior to them. This is often the case with people who are so intolerant, bigoted, or ignorant about any other group of people as a whole. What is it they say, we hate what we fear or do not understand...

Megatron wrote: Again the personal attacks against me, instead of just my arguments proceed.  You can say what you will but if you believe me wrong then insulting me personally will not get you anywhere. Attacking my arguments will get you somewhere, but most of the people that have disagreed with me in this thread have started off their arguments with personal insults directed against me as a person. One of the main faux-pas' in debating is directing insults at the person who's viewpoint you disagree with.  So go ahead and call me a non-Muslim, a bigot, a person with a giant ego who for some reason can't walk through doors.  All those insults don't in any way challenge what I have said.  Do your worst.

Dude, your ego is your own worst enemy. I do think you are the stereo-typical Muslim. You personify that to a tee. You are the person that many people who do not understand Islam see and that is sooooo sad.

Mishmish wrote: Sister Lameese, I have nothing more to say to this man. I my opinion, responding to him is useless, and probably feeds some deep seated irrational fear he has that woman are actually better than him so he must use every opportunity to feel smug and superior to them. This is often the case with people who are so intolerant, bigoted, or ignorant about any other group of people as a whole. What is it they say, we hate what we fear or do not understand...

I have to agree with you here. The only other thing I want to say is that Prostitution was born out of necessity. Women were not able to get jobs way back when, they were not able to do many things without a male. And if that male died and the woman had children, what could she do?? Nothing. No one cared, no one helped, how could they? No one had anything. And who paid for these prostitutes instead of helping them out with food for their families? Men.

Also, MegaEgo says that the only real power women have is sex. Here will be his downfall. We have so much more power, so much more infact that it is insedious. We raise our children. We can teach them anything we want. Mama will always be first to a child. And Mama can shape their minds. That is more power then any world leader. My son, I will make sure is not like this person and is respectful and helpful with his wife. Afterall, I will have to answer one day for the EGO I gave my son by what I taught him.

I am done here too.

Lameese

I think Megatron has been here before by another name, left come back again, left again and now is back. We figured out he is a young unmarried guy, probably lonely too. I will say only this to him, in every western country in the world where women are given equal access to education, they are now outscoring boys in all subjects including medicine, law, pharmacy and business. The only area where men are still ahead in engineering , physics and math. If men are so much more brilliant why are more women getting into law school, medical school and pharmacy school? Intelligence is not gender based, I can prove that without a doubt. Any boy or girl could or could not be  a genius. But now that women have been given the chance, they are studying harder, working harder and kicking but!!! If that scares you sorry, but many men are not afraid of having an intelligent educated wife that may be even smarter than they are. I guess you can marry an illiterate woman that can only cook, clean and say YES SIR!!!!

Walk into any American high school classroom, and you're likely to hear a familiar refrain: Boys are innately better at math and science, while girls tend to excel in subjects that require verbal skills. But is there any solid evidence to support that thinking?

Not according to four Stanford scholars who took part Friday in a campus forum on the role of gender in math, science and engineering education. The subject made headlines in January after Harvard President Lawrence H. Summers mused that innate differences between men and women might be one reason fewer women succeed in science and math careers.

In fact, differences in performance between males and females have shrunk to nearly insignificant levels on most standardized tests, said Jo Boaler, an associate professor of mathematics education at the School of Education. "There is a huge belief that boys are better at math which is vastly out of proportion to any data that we have," Boaler told the audience of about 100, mostly women. "And yet people believe it. You go into schools and the children will tell you that."

Citing data from England, Boaler noted that in the 1970s boys did pass national high school exams at higher rates and tended to achieve the highest grades. But thanks to improvements in English textbooks and teaching approaches, girls there were outperforming boys on every level and in every subject area by the year 2000.

Girls have made similar gains on most standardized tests in the United States, she said. "Are there differences in achievement in math and science for high school girls? I would say no there aren't. And where they are, they vary across cultures, so clearly they're not genetic," Boaler said. When teaching approaches are changed, she added, "you get much higher rates of achievement and participation among girls and women."

One notable exception to the general increase in girls' achievement is their performance on the math portion of the SAT. (Boys' scores averaged 537 on the math portion in 2004, compared with 501 for girls.) Boaler suggested that the test's timed, multiple-choice format�very different from European tests�might be partly to blame for the gender gap. She also pointed to persistent cultural pressures that deter girls from enrolling in tough high school math courses.

"When boys are more successful than girls in math and science, everybody says it's because boys are genetically suited to math and science. But when girls are doing better, people say it's because they work hard," she said to laughter.

Such comments are damaging for a number of reasons, Boaler continued. If people think the differences between boys and girls are innate, they assume nothing can be done to improve the situation. Negative stereotyping also can have a direct effect on performance, she said. Studies have shown that if people are told beforehand that members of their ethnic group or gender don't do well on a particular test, they tend to choke. But if they go into a test without the so-called "stereotype threat," they do better.

Ruth O'Hara, assistant professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences, said her area of research doesn't support the notion of innate male math superiority either. While it is true that male brains are 6 to 8 percent larger than those of females, she said, "that may have no more impact on cognitive processing than differences in height."

Several years ago, she noted, brain-imaging studies suggested that there might be significant differences in the way men and women process information. Women were thought to have greater neural density in the language centers of their brains, for example, while men seemed to have an advantage in visuospatial ability�the ability to rotate objects in their heads.

However, O'Hara said, most of those widely publicized studies haven't been replicated with larger data samples. Nor have different patterns of brain activation shown anything to do with performance. "The bottom line," she said, "is we are still very much in the state of mixed findings when it comes to gender and brain processing," and those findings "really have given us no definite answers."

Why else might there be a dearth of female scientists and engineers in higher education? Sheri Sheppard, an associate professor of mechanical engineering, pointed to a 1997 study that looked at why undergraduates drop out of engineering majors. It wasn't a matter of poor grades�males and females in the study had similar grade-point averages. Instead, the top reason women switched majors was because they simply lost interest. The second most cited factor was curriculum overload, followed by poor teaching.

Londa Schiebinger, the Barbara D. Finberg Director of the Institute for Research on Women and Gender and professor of the history of science, suggested that marital patterns also may discourage women from staying the course in science and engineering careers.

Schiebinger, an international expert on gender and science, noted that high-achieving women have a tendency to marry high-achieving men and this holds consequences for their own geographic mobility and advancement.

For example, 43 percent of married female physicists are married to other physicists, whereas only 6 percent of male physicists have physicist spouses. "Where there are two professionals in a family," she said, "it's hard for each to pursue opportunities for advancement when they come by."

The forum was co-hosted by the Institute for Research on Women and Gender and the Faculty Women's Forum. A related conference�on ways gender analysis can contribute to research in science and engineering�is scheduled for April 15-16 on campus.

foody wrote: I am a 28 year old confused man. My father died when I was a little baby so I never had a male role model at all, I was raised by my mother and grandmother and I question my role as a parent and as a man. I came to the western world and what ever male self worth has been ultimately destroyed, now that I know I am nothing more than a sperm donor, why do we need men? That is the question I keep asking myself, it is always on my mind, sleeping, praying, why do we need sons, they are burden not joy, and science are able to make it that two women together could have daugthers without the need of a man. So..why are we working hard saving the men, the males and why not we just eliminate them and keep the human race as females? That is the question the triggers on mind, can you help me? Are men nothing more than sperm donors? Do we need them?   Yours truly, a very confused muslim brother. (Sometimes I wished I was not a man, that is how I am confused.)

As Salam Alaikum akhy,

The best role model for you, me, every man, and every woman is the Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu alaihi wa salam).  Please refer to Hadith and Qur'an if you are confused about your part as a human, man, or Muslim.

Cassandra wrote: I have always believed that the best way to extricate oneself from misogynistic, circular, pointless, and time wasting arguments is to look the other person squarely in the eye and say:  "Certainly, you are entitled to your wrong opinion", before turning on ones 3" heels, and calmly walking away. Stops 'em dead in their tracks!

LOL

Megatron you are not actually at fault for anything, as a scientist I'm sure you know its natural to feel that way....I thought I was the one who is the most passionate about defending the male "species." I read all the insults hurled at you and see now that I opened my big motuh here they are gone!

Why didn't I become a lawyer? The very same reason which you just mentioned! I'd rather be called "pig" and "doughnut" cop than be a great lawyer and lie all the time then eventually go to Hell! LOL Just kidding. With all honesty Megatron my arrogance in my intelligence actually got me through the LSAT! after the test Baylor Law School as Well as other such as ASU wanted me to attend their schools but I just decided to be a cop because honestly I want to be a selfless person because I truly care about people.