I spoke with a non muslim from middle eastern country last night who has a thick book of khadith compilation with him, and who has the feeling of delight in quoting the wars mentioned in it and the virgin in heavans.

Very little we mentioned the Qur'an altho I insisted on it. He tried to quote a verse - and it was a verse about war - which I tried to help in locating it. I am sure it was from chapter 9 but he reckons it was in chapter 2. What an expert he was.

He was a taxi driver I was his pessenger, We had roughly 25 minutes conversation, he did most of the talking. Before we part I asked him two questions:

1. How many verses are they in the Qur'an?
2. How khadiths are they in the book of khadiths?

He asked me what was those questions for since of course he did not know how many they are. He was going to quote another khadith from that book but I told him to forget it until he knows how many subjects the book deals with. It seem the way the mind works is set what to find.

In 1998 a man quoted few khadiths in the discussion forum - than I repost his khadith quotation verbatim, except - except that I highlited all the word KILLING, BLOOD, SWORD. I asked him to count how many are they. Once he done the counting he said to me - So?

1. How many verses are they in the Qur'an?

fredifreeloader wrote: how many verses are there in the quran? - well that depends what kind of muslim you are.  shia believe the quran is incomplete and falsified, and should have 17000 ayat

Yeah I read that before. But when I asked the shiah themselves few times they seem don't know it themselves. So I guess to treat them as they are.

Alright, how many verses are they in it?

superme,

I have never totalled up the verses of all the Surahs but I have understood their meanings.

Don't have time to total up but if you count the verses of all the 114 Chapters, please do not include the verses of the Opening or the First Chapter.

It has been incorporated in Qur'aan as the Opening chapter but it stands on it's own and was given to Prophet separately from Qur'aan. It is also written as the "Most oftenly recited verses". That is the most recited daily prayer in the life of any Muslim.

fredi,

Shias follow the same Qur'aan as the Sunnis and the other Muslims do. It is still the same Qur'aan in every Shia's home.

I did my secondary school studies in an English medium technical school run by the Shias of Iran. I was the only "Sunni" Muslim in that school. I should be the better witness.

They do have differences in the interpretation of some verses and that is understandable. When the Shias stand in the Ka'aba and pray to God, they stand behind the "Sunni" Imam and follow. If the Qur'aan were really not correct, they would not do that.

bmzsp wrote: fredi, Shias follow the same Qur'aan as the Sunnis and the other Muslims do. It is still the same Qur'aan in every Shia's home. I did my secondary school studies in an English medium technical school run by the Shias of Iran. I was the only "Sunni" Muslim in that school. I should be the better witness. They do have differences in the interpretation of some verses and that is understandable. When the Shias stand in the Ka'aba and pray to God, they stand behind the "Sunni" Imam and follow. If the Qur'aan were really not correct, they would not do that.

yes of course they follow the same quran, bmz, it is all they have.  but it does not mean they do not have the brains to recognise the inherent weakness of the document.  it is a "make-do" for them.  they are waiting for the true, hidden quran to be revealed.  not that it ever will be of course, or if it is, who knows what it will be

Fredi,

I will make it very easy for you, this time.

The Shias are Muslims. Period. They follow their own Imams like Sunnis follow theirs in general.

The Shias and Christians have one thing definitely in common!

And that is the Shias are always trying their very best and hard to find Ali in Qur'aan just like the Christians are always trying their very best and hard to find Jesus in every chapter of the Jewish Scriptures, the Jewish Tanakh (Jewish OT)     

The Christians have edited and reworded the Jewish OT to show that they found Jesus in the Jewish scriptures but the Shias have not done any thing such yet with Qur'aan to show that they found Ali.   

Good day, Mate.

BMZ,

You are what the headmaster of my school would have called (�no-tee�), that is, a bit naughty, but funny and good-natured.  It�s probably a good thing that we didn�t sit across from each other in class, or catechism, or I would have gotten into even more trouble than I did!

Serv,

How did you know that? My headmaster used to call me that.

Sometimes, I make specially tailored, made-to-measure and

perfect-fit-like-glove posts for Fredi and my good friend George.

Best Regards & Good Night

BMZ