Salaam,

I've had many discussions with sisters regarding this particular area. In my opinion since I live in the United States I think that we live in a society that both the man and the woman must contribute to the household. Even on a simple economic level in this country both people should work. I also think partially because I believe in both a man and a woman having their own financial status.

I believe that both men and women working can also help teach independence and also interdependence. There are many sisters who believe that a man should work and that it is his Islamic duty as provider. Although I don't disagree I hoever look at this as circumstantial because given the simple life that the early bedouins live in comparison to the life now it's difficult to do so.

As far as income is monies obtained I believe in threee acounts: A man's personal account, a woman's personal account and a Joint account. I believe that if a woman works part of her money should go to household expenses but if possible, she should also save part of her money for herself the same as a man.

Also to add to the subject that if the woman generates money (even if it is more than her husband) it is 100% hers and she can do as she pleases with. Hehe, it even says so in the quraan, just read the quraan again and again (incase you missed some points) and usually 90% of these questions will not even arise at all.  Women working as well helps improve her character and be a better support and understanding for her husband.  I told my mom and I was only 10 at Saudi Arabia of course (where such trash shows where not allowed at tv) I said to her..that if there is a situation where my future wife wishes to work for what ever reason I would rather stay home and take care of my child then let some stranger take care for them for me instead. I will never let my children be at the hands of stranger...I only pray that a situation will never arise where both parents will have to work...I will sacrifice lots of material goods if it means either one of us staying home and raising the children. After all...what is this work for..if it is not for the children and what is the society composed of? Parents who take care of their children in proper manners..I mean all this crimes in united state and prostitution and in the UK is because of bad family and family breakup structure.

I never really put too much concern in materialistic and money things...

Salaam,

Foody I'd have to respectfully disagree with you. Just because a woman works doesn't mean that her money is 100% hers. That is unfair. That is like if a man works then most of his money is for his family yet if a woman works all of her money is for her. That is vain and if any woman believes that her income she generates is solely for her is a vain belief. I believe that income generated should be partial and personal, not solely personal. Again I'm speaking from an Americans perspective. In today's age its hard for a man to work and just support his family. I know plenty of Muslim women who work as well as their husbands so its no big deal.

I don't think we are discussing the realistic stanpoint.

Let me readdress that my comment was based on economic sustainability in the United States. It's also common sense that a man cannot support his family alone by generating an income of $20,000 a year, that is what we call "the working poor." I believe that in Islam it is a man's obligation to support his family, however it is an obligation on both members to plan their expenses. Just because it doesn't say a woman isn't suppose to ue her money in the Qur'an doesn't mean she she use her money on herself. Also, sister if I may clarify that if the man doesn't have a job isn't the only reason a woman may spend her money. Again apart of marriage in my opinion is the joint effort not one-sided. Alas this reaffirms why I am not married to a Muslimah now...

Foody God's blessings be upon you.....

The issue here for me is not me taking care of a woman and my children, the issue here I have is economic sustainability. I choose not to struggle therefore, I seek a working woman who is also educated and understands that in America it takes two to work and work in unison with the family. I'm sorry but that is the real world. Teachers, Physicians and other friends of mine do it so I see no problem hee. Now, if I were at a financial point where I made enough to where my wife doesn't have to work fine. But I'm a cop, I make a little over $44k a year without overtime and with over time  I can make a lot more, but I wouldn't be home very much.

Even if I made $44k a year, in California that is still not enough. Some had told me to move but where? My job is here in Southern California and I need a woman to understand that. This is where the special and unique nature of a woman comes into play. Foody your comments are idealistic not realistic. I don't know if you live in California and on your own but if you did you'd understand what I'm talking about

Israfil wrote: Let me readdress that my comment was based on economic sustainability in the United States. It's also common sense that a man cannot support his family alone by generating an income of $20,000 a year, that is what we call "the working poor." I believe that in Islam it is a man's obligation to support his family, however it is an obligation on both members to plan their expenses. Just because it doesn't say a woman isn't suppose to ue her money in the Qur'an doesn't mean she she use her money on herself. Also, sister if I may clarify that if the man doesn't have a job isn't the only reason a woman may spend her money. Again apart of marriage in my opinion is the joint effort not one-sided. Alas this reaffirms why I am not married to a Muslimah now...

Bismillah,

Brother, I respect and understand your position.  And I'm sure if you met a lovely sister who had no money that you wouldn't not marry her because of that.  It is hard to make ends meet, and you are being practical.  If you meet someone who is able to work, then you are right that you both should contribute when it is necessary.  ISA, you will find someone suitable soon.

The woman-working-only-when-it-is-necessary idea is kind of a lie.  It ends up that the woman works a lot of the time in such a scenario.  And I'm going to wow you all by actually knowing the name of a book with research to support this, "Worlds of Pain".  This book is over 25 years old, and the problem has only gotten worse because of the failing American economy.

So it is still best for us to encourage our daughters to get educated so that they can have a better job, because most likely, they will need to work, and why not have a better job with more money rather than a low paying job?

Peace

foody wrote: You are not married to a Muslimah because you find it unfair that a man is the responsible care giver for his family, wife and children and that the wife if she makes money she is free to do with it as she wishes? Of course majority of the women are responsible intelligient human beings who think of their families as well, please don't go ahead and dish all Muslimah for that. What happened to the men who did not even think twice of objecting of this factor as they want to make sure that their wives are well economically satiated if the husbands die for whatever reason? Yes, sure in the USA it is different, but also in the USA there are a huge amount of war between the sexiests, I mean there are really no win win here..the only thing you should be thinking about is making sure that your wife and children are both economically, spiritually and emotionally complete from you and your wife.  I find your statement about not wanting to marry a muslim woman because of $$$ truelly offensive.  Just imagine the many sacrifices she will be making for you and your children, I would think this is the least thing she would deserve from this...but ones again I am sure majority of the women out there are intelligient human beings who know the value of money and family and will not think of them selfishly but there are also lots of women out there which are the reverse..it is your responsibility Israfil to seek the right woman for you and thus this whole issue you have would not even be discussed.

Bismillah,

On behalf of all of the intelligent women who know the value of money, I thank you, Brother!

"And I'm going to wow you all by actually knowing the name of a book with research to support this,"

HA HA HA

Herjihad don't get me wrong, 'm not saying that a woman with no money is less valuable, it makes the struggle more difficult. I don't care what job a woman has, so long as she is able to contribute. I'm being realistic as if you are an American, and especially a Californian, you would understand my point in both people contributing. Unless I have a $70-80k a year job then I would consider it, but as you say being practical and realistic is my point. Women need to work and help in my philosophy becaue I want an independent woman but also an emotionally interdependent woman as well.

I think a lot of sisters get upset at me because I say a woman should work...funny 60 years ago women cried about being in the work force....hmmmm

Israfil, I live in northern cali and my husband supports us fully. Now he is older than you and did not get married to me until he was 33. I am 9 years younger than him. We rent a nice house, our son goes to a great school, my daughter attends a challenging preschool, they are both in gymnastics., swimming and karate. Let me say to be fair, he makes alot more money than you, more than 3 times what you make. So I understand what you are saying. If he made the same as you I am sure I would work part time and kids would not be able to do all the same things. We would have to rent a 2 bedroom apartment and would not be able to travel. But , I would sacrifice so that at least when they were babies I could be at home with them. Israfil, every baby needs thier mother, 24 hours a day! They need to be breastfed, held, cuddled and loved around the clock. No babysitter or daycare will due. If you want your wife to work, then find a woman who likes working, but you OWE HER and your kids a few years,(each child needs the mom for at least 1.5 years at home) of not working. Do whatever you can, save first, put money in the bank and sacrifice so the children can have thier mother at home. Then later she can go back to work, maybe part time, maybe more and bring in more income.

Lastly, I would recomend finding a woman who wants a career for a while when you get married that would like to wait on having kids. Then you can both work for 4or5 years and save up lots of money and go on fun trips and then be ready for the expence and sacrifice of having children. All the best to you, and remember career minded women that work and make lots of money generally are very independant and do not like being told what to do...

Assalamu Alaikum:

Realistic or not, Islamically it is still the husband's responsibility to support his

wife. My husband does not want me to work. This is one way he offers me protection in a country that is not always friendly to Muslim women in hijab. He also sees it as his duty as a man to support me. In fact, I think he would be offended as a man if I told him I wanted to go back to work to pay the bills. We are not rich, but Al HamdilAllah we have everything we need. Masha'Allah. Masha'Allah.

I have a friend with 10 children, and she does not work. Her husband manages to support them all on the salary of a pharmaceutical assistant. They own their own home and her older children are at university. They have food and clothes and everything they need. In fact, only one of my Muslim women friends works outside of the home. No one is starving or homeless yet.

Perhaps it just depends on what you find important.

Bismillah,

Brother Israfil,

Some women do want to work even while the kids are small.  ISA you find what you are looking for.

My kids need me now more than ever, but they also need money.  Life has so many tough choices.  But I think of the women and families that don't even have the choice of working or not because they live in war zones or completely suppressed economies, and I feel that it is not really such a dilema.

My dear friend with eight kids and another on the way has worked for years and is attending school right now.  Her kids didn't suffer from lack of maternal care or love.  I believe that each situation is different, and that we have to figure a lot of things out as we go along.   Allah, SWT, knows best.

Sigh*

All I can say is "whatever" perhaps Sisterherjihad and Jenni are the only ones that feel me on this issue. "Realistic or not" I don't have to do anything as a man. All humans have so-called "free will." I have the will to not get married not support a woman and not do any of the above. However, as a Muslim man to not do such things would defy the rules of God and thus I'd be falling away from the Muslim fold. Mishmish did you not say you live in Texas? Did you know in comparison to California housing as far as taxes are considerably cheaper than California? In California we pay property tax. That alone bites us in the butt. Even if I decided to be cheap and live in a apartment I'd be paying close to $1200 per/month for me and my wife. Not mentioning car payments household expenses etc...Come on give me a break ladies!

We also pay a higher mortage. A monthly mortage even for a so-called "cheap house" is around $2,000 per month depending on the value of your house. Since Sister Jenni live sin northern Cali she can attest to this. Let's do math here. Mishmish and I'll use your friend as an example. I'm not sure what tech's make here but I highly doubt that with 10 kids as a pharmacy Tech can support 10 kids in Cali and be ok. If he made my Salary plus 10 kids with a $2,000 mortage/month he would be forced to do overtime to barely make it.

One thing you women don't get about me is I refuse to allow my family to struggle. My mother worked hard all her life without the help of a man. My grandmother before her used to take of "white folks" houses as a house keeper. My great grandmother before her was a cotton picker and house keeper. So I belong to a long list of hard working women. Realistic or not that philosophy was instilled in me. I feel as a man looking for a woman a woman has to at least be career orient and regardless whether she is independent or not all career orient women who wants a family need to be interdependent.

Yes Jenni someone who makes x3 much more than I make than yes, he can make it definitely. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that when my wife gets pregnant I will say "no you work now!" no I want my woman to be comfortable. But I also want to get to a point in my life where me and my wife are not having kids in a apartment either. I know Muslims who have "10 kids" in a apartment. That is not my goal. I want a house I want pets I want an environment where my kids can be properly raised.

One thing some of you may not realize is Allau alim our situations so I don't think its mandatory of any man to take care of a woman if he knows he will struggle. If you believe that then that is not the Islam I practice. I feel like I'm turning this into a whinning session and I'm not, but clearly stating that it is not always possible to take care of someone if you cannot take care of yourself. Again I'd like those of you to look at your local states in comparison to ours. We as well as New York are the most expensive states in respect to cost of living.

Foody nice noble comment you made but allow me to take the Rosy shades from you........

Assalamu Alaikum Brother:

We pay cash for everything, to avoid riba. It also keeps us from becoming mired in debt and caught up in a never ending chain of materialism. If we can't afford to pay cash for something, we just don't buy it.

I live in Texas, but I have lived all over, and I know Muslims all over the world. Some places have a very high cost of living, others relatively low. My friend with 10 children lives in Tennessee. Higher cost of living than Texas.

My husband works very hard to make his money halal, they do not even accept credit cards at his shop. We work very hard to spend it in a halal fashion, no credit cards, no riba, Al HamdilAllah. If this means I can't have a brand new car, so what! I have a good car that runs and that is completely paid for. If this means I can't own my own home right now, so what! I have a roof over my head and food and clothing. Al HamdilAllah. We trust in Allah(SWT) and Allah(SWT) has always taken care of us.

I am happy with what Allah(SWT) has given me, we are very blessed. Masha'Allah.

Sister Jenni, it is not just the breast feeding that is important. I look at the children of my friends and family who do work, and then at the children of my friends who stay home, and there is a huge difference in their behavior. Almost all of the young children whose mothers' work are more demanding, they suffer separation anxiety, they are starved for attention, and many of the older children act out..  It does make a difference to the well being of the child to have that accessibility to their mother. There is no substitute for this.

I know there are women who have to work, through no choice of their own. But, if you are married and are planning on having children, why would you want someone else to raise your child? Isn't the most important job of any parent raising their children?

Raising a child properly has nothing to do with whether they are in a house or an apartment. It has everything to do with the values and morals that you instill in them. There are lots of kids in this country raised in middle to upper income families with huge houses who are doing drugs, having sex, commiting crimes, and lots of other very bad things. They have all of the "advantages" of a comfortable material life, but they are lost.

You cannot plan whether you will struggle financially or not. Everything is from Allah(SWT). If you are meant to have money, you will have it. But you can plan on whether you will live as Islamically as possible.

Mishmish, I know there is a surah that says Allah only helps those that helps themselves. My husband became an engineer and then got an M.B.A. through hard work, studying and the help of his family. Of course Allah helped too and gave him the chance, but he had to work for it. He had to score higher on tests, study harder and shine to get where he is today. Some people are poor in the west because they are lazy or do not want to better themselves. I am only saying some, many are poor because they have not been given the same chances in life. And of course being well off does not mean your kids will be perfect. However, going to good schools and living in a nice clean neighborhood is a definit plus for kids. We live where we do because of the school, and it is amazing. I have seen others within 10 miles of me that look dreadful and the scores are terrible. My husband is southasain so we consider education to be the first priority for our kids. He wants them both to be doctors, ESPECIALLY our daughter. I will try and so will he to do everything in our power to give them the best education and chance possible. And Inshalla they will go far in education and life.

Finally I have friends who are totally spoiling thier kids, and they are at home with them. They don't listen to thier parents, do whatever they want and are terribly picky eaters. I also have friends that work and their kids are great, they go to good childcare or preschool or have thier granparents caring for them. So I believe that it can go either way, it totally depends on the situation. I used breastfeeding to illustrate that a baby needs that time with thier mother as a minimum to nurse and bond. It will improve thier health and well being and it is good for the mother as well. After a child is 2 they don't rely as much on the mother solely and others can step in and help care for them. Peace

As' Salaamu Alaikum,

Our societies are different and so are our lives and I agree that we should live accordingly to Islam, however not always will we live economically in Islamic fashion, I mean in the sense of marriage. Sister just because both parents work doesn't mean "someone else will raise your kids." There are plenty of parents who work and raise their kids at the same time. Family members help baby sit and so forth. So that point is moot sister. I personally don't like it when some sisters ( not you in particular) say "It's my right to stay at home and so be it"

My reaction is like What!

Let me also dispell a belief here that you (Mishmish) seem to have taken from my comments. As far as style of living I refuse to live in poverty and struggle and say "That is God's will." How you plan your life is how you plan it. I plan on making money to the point I can give my wife that option of staying home but until then if I do get married before that time I plan on a 2 parent working environment.

When my mother worked as a single parent my brother raised me and although I was bbysat now and then I still knew my mother worked and I still had an idea that, her job was of some importance. However we have strayed far from the subject matter.

Jazakumallahu khairan sis Amah and Mishmish for your posts.

Sis. Mishmish tell your husband Abeer said "YOU'RE THE MAN BRO"  Allah has blessed you, I pray that he continues to shower his blessings and mercy on you and your family.

Salaam

@Israfil

Wait a second I could not help but notice what you just said, "All humans have so-called "free will." I have the will to not get married not support a woman and not do any of the above. However, as a Muslim man to not do such things would defy the rules of God and thus I'd be falling away from the Muslim fold." Are you saying as a man if I don't get married, have children,etc, that Allah will not be happy with me?

Assalamu Alaikum!

I am bit late in this thread, but feel to give my input also.

I strongly believe that it is man�s responsibility to earn and maintain household affairs ( Men are protectors and maintainers ). My wife has been a teacher, but now stays at home, and takes care of kids. Because of her brilliant efforts, Masha Allah, kids are doing best in school. Their teachers are very happy at their performance.

They are also learning Islam at home ( proper recitation of Qur�an and its meanings etc ).

I think that if my wife works outside, we would be missing this once a lifetime opportunity to raise kids in such a balanced manner. And I support her decision to use her professional teaching experience to teach our own kids. When children grow up, and she decides to teach outside, I wouldn�t stop her, but my preference would be that she teaches other kids, say kids of neighbours, at home.

We have no debt as we don�t buy anything on riba. We may not have very good savings ( Canada has very high tax rates ), but, we are happy with what Allah has blessed us.

Jazak Allah Khair Sisters Mishmish and Amah for excellent posts.

Peace

Every person's situation is different. The main thing is that when marrying you find someone who can agree with you on these things. If someone wants to marry a woman who can/wants to work so be it. There are plenty of women out there who will.

The saddest reality is the majority of women and men work too long hours and don't have the time or energy to enjoy / spend time with their children. At least here in the states, having kids is terribly expensive. I am not talking about the extras but just to have a place to live, food, clothing, etc.  Like here in DC, a one -room bedroom is anywhere from $1200-$2000. California is one of the most expensive places to live.  

Some women actually can be come very depressive staying home all day. None of us are the same. They can get very depressed. Often women can become isolated and this can cause stress. Just having a parent �present� does not make them a good parent.  My mother was home all the time and this did not mean that she was able to emotionally and mentally handle the situation. Neglect can happen in different ways.  At times one will not know how we will react until we are in a given situation, how any of will feel being home all day with young children. On top of hormonal changes, this can be too much for some people.

Remember the woman who killed her children in Texas? Women killing their children is fairly rare in all societies. So it makes you wonder what she was going through� she was or needed anti-depressant medication, staying at home raising her 4 kids. Then she and her husband decided to have a fifth. She was depressed and he was a good �Christian� who wanted that large family. And she snapped. And killed them all. It is too much to fathom for most of us why or how.

I only brought it up as to underscore the importance of the need for recognition of the mental and emotional needs of people. Not just physical needs.

Each family has to make the best decisions for a given situation. Sometimes we don�t have too much choice. If a family has the economic freedom to make these choices, more power to you.

Since in many cultures people other then the father or mother take care of the child in the day, this is not much different than daycare to a degree. How many families do you see grandma taking care of the kids, while the mother works?  The most able-bodies people must work in the world. How many women go to work with the children strapped to their backs? How many children in the world work? 

Ironically some places are too expensive to just have one person work and in others you could not survive basic living. Whereas if you make what one does in US, you can live like royalty in other places.

Peace.

I would just like to say, I'm very happy being poor.  My family lived in a trailer when I was little, later we bought a home.  My mother was home and loved us and taught us.  When we were in school, she returned to the workforce.  I work now, but we are doing everything to be in a situation that I can be home with our children, adopted or born, until they reach 1st grade and are in school all day.  Then I'll return to work. 

The problem with children today is there is never "family time". 

School, Soccer, Boy/Girl Scouts, Ballet, Video games, movies, internet, TV.  Families don't eat at the dinner table anymore, they don't go to the park.  My Dad and Mother had a Sunday ritual.  We got in the car, drove to the State Park, hiked and then went for Ice Cream.  Only the Ice Cream cost them anything.....and they are my fondest memories.

My kids can live without TVs in their rooms, or computers, or ipods.  We can get along with a 10 year old Subaru Stationwagon and they can wear handme downs.  I will have failed if they grow up materialistic selfish adults who can't enjoy the wonders God gave us.

Assalamu Alaikum:

Angela,

When we were little my Dad was stationed at Ft. Bliss in El Paso, Tx for a while. We had an old station wagon and all the neighborhood kids called it the "dragon wagon" because it burned oil. We used to all pile in it and go to this little place called the Dairy King and get soft serve ice cream cones. Then we go to the park and hike and play.

One of my favorite memories was when we lived in Germany. The "phening man" the german equivalent of the ice cream man, would come around with his cart and we would get to buy anything we wanted from him for a phening. He sold gummy bears, pretzels, schnitzel... We always got the gummy bears wrapped in white paper shaped into cones to hold the bears.

Brother Peacemaker:

Like you, my husband would not mind if I wanted to teach again, preferably from home, but he would never take a penny of my money.

My husband and I both thank God for what we have. Al HamdilAllah we have what we need, and often what we want. But I think it's a blessing when you can't get everything you want right away. It teaches patience, and anticipation. Delayed gratification. Because, if you think about it, that's what Islam is all about.

Wa alaikum Salaam

I'm glad Hafya broughtn up the excellent point!

I know some of you women (and men) like to give each other High Fives and don't really see my point and make indirect comment in saying "Well it's the duty of the man" is quite true yet rhetorical. Everyone's situation is different. Like I told my buddies from the Academy, I  don't want to be rich but I want to live economically sufficient. When we talk about work and and responsibilities we tend to focus on lifestyle such as expensive things and such and this is not the case with me.

Just living in a cheap run down apartment in the "ghetto" of Cali will run you easily $1200 for a one bedroom and you maybe lucky with $900. Even a Muslim brother in Orange county will not cut me any slack! I remember going to the City of Orange where there is a high population of Arab/Palestinian Muslims there and still get no slack! /I mean I cannot beat the cultural bias there and that is unfortunate but in the reality of it all people need to work to survive. Again, places like Texas and Tennesse that don't pay property tax really you guys don't have a whole lot of room to say what is considered meager living.

I live meager living now and I pay $900 per month for a studio! not to mention insurance and car note. I just feel that in today's society where women for years have pioneered to be equal to men in the work force I think the concept of family is changing and therefore women as well as men who are parents are working.

That is the key concept here is the concept of parenting. We tend to bring up the Islamic fashion of family but again, society is different. We all have to adapt in accordance to our environement. If your husband works and you stay home fine. If you both work fine. Whatever gets you by is the most important thing. I just don't want my head getting bite off just because I am for rqual rights (and equal responsibility) for a woman, lucky me most conservative men don't think this way...

Assalamu Alaikum:

The Word of Allah(SWT) is not rhetoric. Quiwama (maintenance and protection) is not a choice, it is an order from Allah(SWT). Equal rights fro women cannot be above the Laws of Allah(SWT).

Texas doesn't have a state property tax, it has local personal property tax which taxes all real and income-producing personal property. There is no federal standardization, so they raise it frequently thus Texas actually has one of the nations highest property tax.

Qala ta'la:

65:7 "Let the man of means spend according to his means: and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allah has given him. Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. After a difficulty, Allah will soon grant relief."

then perhaps it is me that is not a good muslim.....Also I love how when someone associates my comment as if I'm specifically commenting on Qur'an when I was referring to the "rhetoric" here made by members. I'm sorry if I'm realistic. Perhaps the problem with our society today is that we tend to become too much like literalist when it comes to doctrine and rather sympathetic to each other's situations.

In commenting on MM comments:

Even if Texas is one of the highest (which I highly doubt in comparison to California) the fact that there is no property tax of course your local government would have to suppliment that loss by taxing you elsewhere. One of the things why I would never explain God's existence or proseltyze to other about Qur'an is because we truly cannnot comprehend the spiritual implication of the words even if they are plain and clear. The Qur'an is composed of metaphors, allegores and literal meanings thus when we comment on certain verses in the Qur'an make careful consideration of the words "All-knowing" and "All merciful"

With that said...Even if it is an order by God I'm sure god is also knowing of each every prson situation. Just because I feel that a woman should work makes it no less reasonable and against God then someone who holds the belief that a woman should not work. My main position (which according to foody's statements seem to misunderstand totally) here is that where I live, which is Southern California, if a man doesn't have a good job to suppliment his expenses he can suffer economically. In Los Angeles to generate a decent living both parties have to make a combine $100,000.

I don't live in Los Angeles (Although I work there) this is quite true. Everyone's situation is different and the thing we tend to miss as a Muslim community is empathy for each and every persons situation. With respect to that I find your comment foody, bad advice. According to your statement I should move from this country because it will cause me to look in your words " a working bee." Brother, if there could be no wrong advice. Rather, we should understand that God with his wisdom has understanding of this. This is not some sin. This is not like me locking my woman in a closet everytime she goes outside. Or like Saudi Arabia where women cannot drive or Afghanistan where I take a Klashikov rifle to a woman's head.

There are many Muslim women here that work and come from countries where so-called "puritanical Islam" exist. My first priority is myself number one. In order for me to offer something to a woman I'd first have to stabilize myself, but I also think a woman should understand her surroundings and understand that a man cannot do everything. I do not like dependent women like that. To me dependent women in the sense of the expectation that a man should do everything economically in my opinion is weakness. As I was raised by a woman a woman should never have to depend on a man economically.

A woman should be educated and prepare for if the situation occurs she is able to work and provide for herself. In my duty it's common sense. I'm a cop, I can get killed or incapcitated. What happens if my wife has no degree or no proper skills? She will suffer. What about my kids? Oh is my wife gonna take loans out to make ends meet? Instead of the women making comments here about how bad my thinking is be realistic. Not every man does non-hazardous jobs and I think how some of your statements are unfair and unrealistic to my situation.

I find another obligation of muslims is to be sympathetic and empathetic to each others situations but we should never suggest something to someone if it goes against their personal interest such as moving away from this country especially after I established myself in a career. Again I love independent and interdependent women but I find that in 2006 this year depending on your situation women should contribute whether partially or fully.

Assalamu Alaikum!

I have a point that I would like to convey with no offense to anyone intended. Let us stick to the topic and try to answer questions in a simplified way in the light of Qur�an and Sunnah. Then everyone is free, ofcourse, to make his or her decision. Let us re-visit the questions asked by Sister Moona ( Topic Starter ).

Assalamu Alaikum Brother Israfil:

" One of the things why I would never explain God's existence or proseltyze to other about Qur'an is because we truly cannnot comprehend the spiritual implication of the words even if they are plain and clear. The Qur'an is composed of metaphors, allegores and literal meanings thus when we comment on certain verses in the Qur'an make careful consideration of the words "All-knowing" and "All merciful""

The Quran states:

'He it is Who has sent down to thee the book: in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those  in whose hearts is perversity follow the part that is allegorical, seeking discord and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.' (Al Imran Verse 7)

Yes, there are verses in the Quran that are allegorical, but no one understands these verses except Allah(SWT). The rest of the Quran is extremely easy to understand as it was sent for all people for all time. Even those who are unlettered and illiterate.

The question of maintenance, the treatment of people, and the basics of Islam are among the verses considered basic and fundamental. Even children can understand them. These are the words of Allah(SWT), not mine.

Assalamu Alaikum:

Brother Israfil,

There are many Muslimahs who want to work. But, If she chooses to work, that is her choice. When you say you won't marry a Muslimah who thinks it is her right not to work, well, where will you find this Sister? The right not to work is a right given to women by Allah(SWT). Any Muslimah that you meet will know her God given rights. 

"These American and modern women only think about herself most of the time...is that the type of person you want?"

Well, as an American woman I would answer this, but I'm too busy thinking about myself....

foody wrote: Abeer23, That is right Abeer23, but if I am married to a woman who is "working  bee" love of work and this world more than the love of family and the after life, then I seriously have made the worst choice ever. Which goes back to Israfil frustration. Look for the right mate for you, if you find situation arises where you live in a country where it forces both men and women to work and barely surviving then perhaps you should avoid marrying all together, save up enough money and move somewhere else where "working bees" are not more important than marriage, family, and religion.

Foody, this is actually very good advice.  It comes straight out of the Quran as a matter of fact.  Yqoolu ta'la:

24:33 "And as for those who are unable to marry ( I.e., because of poverty or because they cannot find a suitable mate, or for any other personal reason),   let them live in continence until God grants them sufficiency out of His bounty....."

Sadaqa allahu al-adheem

Israfil wrote: then perhaps it is me that is not a good muslim.....Also I love how when someone associates my comment as if I'm specifically commenting on Qur'an when I was referring to the "rhetoric" here made by members. I'm sorry if I'm realistic. Perhaps the problem with our society today is that we tend to become too much like literalist when it comes to doctrine and rather sympathetic to each other's situations. In commenting on MM comments: Even if Texas is one of the highest (which I highly doubt in comparison to California) the fact that there is no property tax of course your local government would have to suppliment that loss by taxing you elsewhere. One of the things why I would never explain God's existence or proseltyze to other about Qur'an is because we truly cannnot comprehend the spiritual implication of the words even if they are plain and clear. The Qur'an is composed of metaphors, allegores and literal meanings thus when we comment on certain verses in the Qur'an make careful consideration of the words "All-knowing" and "All merciful" With that said...Even if it is an order by God I'm sure god is also knowing of each every prson situation. Just because I feel that a woman should work makes it no less reasonable and against God then someone who holds the belief that a woman should not work. My main position (which according to foody's statements seem to misunderstand totally) here is that where I live, which is Southern California, if a man doesn't have a good job to suppliment his expenses he can suffer economically. In Los Angeles to generate a decent living both parties have to make a combine $100,000. I don't live in Los Angeles (Although I work there) this is quite true. Everyone's situation is different and the thing we tend to miss as a Muslim community is empathy for each and every persons situation. With respect to that I find your comment foody, bad advice. According to your statement I should move from this country because it will cause me to look in your words " a working bee." Brother, if there could be no wrong advice. Rather, we should understand that God with his wisdom has understanding of this. This is not some sin. This is not like me locking my woman in a closet everytime she goes outside. Or like Saudi Arabia where women cannot drive or Afghanistan where I take a Klashikov rifle to a woman's head. There are many Muslim women here that work and come from countries where so-called "puritanical Islam" exist. My first priority is myself number one. In order for me to offer something to a woman I'd first have to stabilize myself, but I also think a woman should understand her surroundings and understand that a man cannot do everything. I do not like dependent women like that. To me dependent women in the sense of the expectation that a man should do everything economically in my opinion is weakness. As I was raised by a woman a woman should never have to depend on a man economically. A woman should be educated and prepare for if the situation occurs she is able to work and provide for herself. In my duty it's common sense. I'm a cop, I can get killed or incapcitated. What happens if my wife has no degree or no proper skills? She will suffer. What about my kids? Oh is my wife gonna take loans out to make ends meet? Instead of the women making comments here about how bad my thinking is be realistic. Not every man does non-hazardous jobs and I think how some of your statements are unfair and unrealistic to my situation. I find another obligation of muslims is to be sympathetic and empathetic to each others situations but we should never suggest something to someone if it goes against their personal interest such as moving away from this country especially after I established myself in a career. Again I love independent and interdependent women but I find that in 2006 this year depending on your situation women should contribute whether partially or fully.

Bismillah,

Let me try to be clear:  As foody wrote after you posted this:  Many women work, selling things in a store, making things, et cetera.  The non-American Muslim world is filled with working women and families of professionals who would not consider allowing their daughters to stay at home.  I have met them!

Brother, you are NOT alone in your outlook.  I see nothing wrong with your point of view.  I also see that you and foody agree!  Because you said earlier that, of course, if she is sick or needs to stay with your child that you wouldn't expect her to work. 

Sister Moona, take from our real-life situations and draw your own conclusions about what is best for you in your situation. May Allah, SWT, guide you to a peaceful, joyful marriage.

Peace

Moona wrote: Do you believe it is the husbands duty for the financial support of his wife and children? Or do you believe the wife should contribute financially as well if she can? And if the wife makes more money than the husband? Isnt her income considered to be her money? Thank you for your response.Moona

As Salam Alaikum,

According to hadith and Al- Qur'an, it is the man's responsibility to provide whatever his family needs.  The woman may work if she desires and may provide herself and her family with whatever she wants but she can also keep the money for only herself if she desires.  But even if the woman is working and receiving more money than her husband, it is still the husband's responsibility to provide for his wife and family.

Asalamu Alicum,

I know this is a very late reply,but I felt that I should contribute to this dicussion what I know.

I myself am a practicing women and like much of the comments made here on this topic of women and their earnings,I also always had the view that it is the duty of the men to provide for their wives and WHEN I earned,I would do what I want with ALL of my money.However,I have now changed my view.

It is true that the womens money is hers only and she does not have the responsibilty to provide for anyone and there is no sin upon her if she does not spend it for her family-even if they are in need.However,a very good and american learned scholar (Mash-Allah),from Zaituna institue in America pointed out that we must remember that what ever we have in life is from Allah.It is a risq from Allah.it is only he who decides who gets how muchand how they recieve it.And in a household,that could be either through the men or the women-that is risq itself.And he also reminded that after the Prophet (SAW) started to recieve the revelations,it was lady Khadija (RAA),his wife who provided.

I think much of the times we take islamic principles and rules and forget that it needs to be applied with wisdom.And especially when it comes to marriage,one should always remember to be loving and mercyful to each other  as marriage is something very very great in islam.

Allah Knows Best.

rk

Knowledge01 wrote: Moona wrote: <FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#9933cc size=4>Do you believe it is the husbands duty for the financial support of his wife and children? Or do you believe the wife should contribute financially as well if she can? And if the wife makes more money than the husband? Isnt her income considered to be her money? Thank you for your response.Moona What does Al Qur'an say? It is very clear.

Should married men be given priority when it comes to hiring for jobs and promotions  so as to make sure they get jobs they could support a family with?

rk06 wrote: Asalamu Alicum, I know this is a very late reply,but I felt that I should contribute to this dicussion what I know. I myself am a practicing women and like much of the comments made here on this topic of women and their earnings,I also always had the view that it is the duty of the men to provide for their wives and WHEN I earned,I would do what I want with ALL of my money.However,I have now changed my view. It is true that the womens money is hers only and she does not have the responsibilty to provide for anyone and there is no sin upon her if she does not spend it for her family-even if they are in need.However,a very good and american learned scholar (Mash-Allah),from Zaituna institue in America pointed out that we must remember that what ever we have in life is from Allah.It is a risq from Allah.it is only he who decides who gets how muchand how they recieve it.And in a household,that could be either through the men or the women-that is risq itself.And he also reminded that after the Prophet (SAW) started to recieve the revelations,it was lady Khadija (RAA),his wife who provided. I think much of the times we take islamic principles and rules and forget that it needs to be applied with wisdom.And especially when it comes to marriage,one should always remember to be loving and mercyful to each other  as marriage is something very very great in islam. Allah Knows Best. rk

What loving mother is not going to spend her money on her children's welfare if for some reason the husband cannot get or does not have the money?

Moona wrote: Since my husband and I got married,I have been the main provider for us. But I have no say in anything financial,other than paying ALL the bills. After 3 years of this,it is making me VERY sad,I find myself becoming more and more depressed. He will say,"I will buy you the Jilbab you want,go ahead and buy it".So,I of course buy it with my money.My own GIFT from him,I pay for.Not too long ago I was missing having a pet,so he said "I will buy you a fishtank,go get it." So I do,again with my money...and he never pay's for this supposed gift to me. Now,I wish so much that I did not have my own income.We are saving to build our own home.I have been waiting for over 3 years to be able to make a home  a home.Now the other day he told me he is the one to decorate it,he wont let me put my own feminine touch's to the home.I pay all the bill's,but I feel like a prisoner.Right now we are living in America,but plan on building our home back in his country. I am becoming nervous about moving there permanetly.If he is like this here,what will my life be like there? I have been there,and loved it.But that was when we first got married.Now,for me,life is a drudge. I am very depressed. I am almost to the point of asking him to go back alone.The stress has just become too much for me.I love him,but I cant take this stress anymore. Moona

Moona

 From what I make out of your post, you are the major contributor to the problem by giving him access to money when his attitude appears too questionable.

It is very simple. But you need to also realize this�..once you put money into a joint account or give it to him, that money is not yours exclusively anymore, it belongs to him or the family (depending on whether it is his account or a joint one)

However, we need to know why you are the main provider in this scenario. If your husband does work to his best but is not making enough to provide a reasonable lifestyle and you are pitching in, sister, in the world we live in now, most of us are doing this. We are doing this so that we can live comfortably and have a sense of security in a world of uncertainty. And in this scenario, this is my take on the issue. If a person (regardless og gender)makes 100$ and spends all of it for the family, this doesn�t make him/her a bigger contributor than his wife/husband who may make only 50$ and they spend all of it on the family too. 

If your situation is because of your husband not working at all and not making an effort to work then his behavior is not Islamic and not even fair. My saying so would not solve your problem. I think that you realize this fact very well. And you are not comfortable with it. I would ask you why you are doing this.  You say you are stressed but surely this is for us on this forum. I assume you are being sweetly accommodative with your husband. Which brings us to why? Are you scared of losing his love? Or losing him altogether? Please PM me if you are hesitant to discuss this on the forum.

Regards

rk06 wrote: Asalamu Alicum, I know this is a very late reply,but I felt that I should contribute to this dicussion what I know. I myself am a practicing women and like much of the comments made here on this topic of women and their earnings,I also always had the view that it is the duty of the men to provide for their wives and WHEN I earned,I would do what I want with ALL of my money.However,I have now changed my view. It is true that the womens money is hers only and she does not have the responsibilty to provide for anyone and there is no sin upon her if she does not spend it for her family-even if they are in need.However,a very good and american learned scholar (Mash-Allah),from Zaituna institue in America pointed out that we must remember that what ever we have in life is from Allah.It is a risq from Allah.it is only he who decides who gets how muchand how they recieve it.And in a household,that could be either through the men or the women-that is risq itself.And he also reminded that after the Prophet (SAW) started to recieve the revelations,it was lady Khadija (RAA),his wife who provided. I think much of the times we take islamic principles and rules and forget that it needs to be applied with wisdom.And especially when it comes to marriage,one should always remember to be loving and mercyful to each other  as marriage is something very very great in islam. Allah Knows Best. rk

Assalamu Alaikum,

It is not woman�s responsibility to financially support the family. But if she decides to do so on her own free will, she will be rewarded by Allah. It is like doing more than what is actually required. However, it should come out of her free will without any sort of compulsion.

Peace