Moses and his adoption
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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
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Topic: Moses and his adoption
Posted By: George
Subject: Moses and his adoption
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 8:01am
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The following is the account of Moses' adoption in the Quran: And We inspired the mother of Moses, saying: Suckle him and, when thou fearest for him, then cast him into the river and fear not nor grieve. Lo! We shall bring him back unto thee and shall make him (one) of Our messengers. And the family of Pharaoh took him up, that he might become for them an enemy and a sorrow, Lo! Pharaoh and Haman and their hosts were ever sinning. And the wife of Pharaoh said: (He will be) a consolation for me and for thee. Kill him not. Peradventure he may be of use to us, or we may choose him for a son. And they perceived not. S. 28:7-9 Pickthall The following is the account of Moses' adoption from the Hebrew Scriptures: Exodus 2:1 A man of the house of Levi went and married Levi's daughter. 2:2 The woman became pregnant and had a son. She realized how extraordinary [the child] was, and she kept him hidden for three months. 2:3 When she could no longer hide him, she took a papyrus box, coating it with asphalt and pitch, and she placed the child in it. She placed it in the rushes near the bank of the Nile. 2:4 [The child's] sister stood herself at a distance to see what would happen to him. 2:5 Pharaoh's daughter went to bathe in the Nile, while her maids walked along the Nile's edge. She saw the box in the rushes, and sent her slave-girl to fetch it. 2:6 Opening [the box] she saw the boy. The infant began to cry, and she had pity on it. 'It is one of the Hebrew boys,' she said. 2:7 [The infant's] sister said to Pharaoh's daughter, 'Shall I go and call a Hebrew woman to nurse the child for you?' 2:8 'Go,' replied Pharaoh's daughter. The young girl went and got the child's own mother. 2:9 'Take this child and nurse it,' said Pharaoh's daughter to [the mother]. 'I will pay you a fee.' The woman took the child and nursed it. 2:10 When the child matured, [his mother] brought him to Pharaoh's daughter. She adopted him as her own son, and named him Moses (Moshe). 'I bore (mashe) him from the water,' she said. Why does the Qur'an say that it was Pharaoh's wife who adopted Moses when the Holy Bible says that it was his daughter? |
Replies:
Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 9:10am
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Possible Answer: Because the Quran wasn�t taking instructions from the writers of Exodus. Serv |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 9:18am
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George, Good question and I have to repeat again that Qur'aan says only "a woman of the Pharoah" or a "woman from the Pharoah". It could also mean "The wife of Pharoah". It is in style similar to Isaiah and I hope you know the famous verse "A young woman shall give birth to a child" and that woman is not named and neither her relationship is given. There is no guarantee that the Bible is correct. Since both the Qur'aan and the Bible differ, we can safely say that it was a "Woman of Pharoah". In Semitic languages, it was and is very common to call a wife or a mother "Woman". Jesus did the same too when he addressed his mother, according to the New Testament. However, Qur'aan does not definitely call her a daughter of Pharoah. Wife or the woman of Pharoah sounds more factual though. Hope this helped. |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 9:20am
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Servie, "Because the Quran wasn�t taking instructions from the writers of Exodus." That is a good answer. Best Regards from your Jew |
Posted By: George
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:08am
Well, Serve, since Moses wrote Exodus, he should know who adopted him, wouldn't you say so? Peace |
Servetus wrote:Posted By: George
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:10am
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BMZ, I will check out your translation with my friend who reads the Qur'an in his native Arabic language. Peace |
Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 12:23pm
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Well, Serve, since Moses wrote Exodus �� Well, George, I am sure that you have heard of the �documentary hypothesis� which argues otherwise. Although I am trying to keep track of the objections from its more prominent critics as well, I am sorry to be in this case and at least temporarily swayed by modern scholarship and am not meaning to entangle you in unprofitable dialogue, but prove it! (Not really. There is no need. My first post above was just my impromptu contribution to today�s discussion in Madrassa [Islamic Sunday School].) Serv |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 23 May 2006 at 2:02am
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George, I have edited my post. You may ask your friend who reads Qur'aan in Arabic but make sure he understands Qur'aan's Arabic dialect well. Ask him about the Arabic word Imraa't-a Firaun, Imraa'ta Lut, Imraa'ta Nuh, Imraa'ta Imraan and Imraa't-al-Azeez and he would be able to explain to you. In all of these, the word Imraa't points to wife.
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Posted By: George
Date Posted: 23 May 2006 at 7:52am
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Yes, of course, I've heard of it. It is merely a theory. The Jews would tell you that God wrote the Pentateuch. The problem with this theory is it's written by 19th century German intellectuals who had no understanding of Jewish Issues and History. And the Qur'an tells us that Moses wrote it: "It was We who revealed the Law (to Moses); therein was guidance and light ... if any do fail to judge by the light of what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) unbelievers ... We sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: Therein was guidance and light ... a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by the light of what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. Judge. . . what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires ... "(S. Ma-ida 5:44,46,47,49). So, when the Jews say that God wrote the Pentateuch, Allah seems to confirm it in the Qur'an. Peace |
Posted By: George
Date Posted: 23 May 2006 at 7:55am
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BMZ, In Arabic daughter is " Ibnat" Wife is "imra'at" ( as used in Qur'an) and young woman depends on the context, but when you say Imra'at Moses or Noah or Abraham, it means his wife. The Qu'ran uses "the daughter of Imran" which means that the term daughter is used. The Qur'an clearly says that it is Pharoah's wife who adopts Moses. Peace |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 23 May 2006 at 9:19am
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George, Wife is fine. It can also mean a woman of someone or some family. From you: "The Qu'ran uses "the daughter of Imran" which means that the term daughter is used." No, George, Qur'aan does not use and mention the term "daughter of Imraan". The word used is Imraat-e-Imraan, which can mean a woman of Imraan or wife of Imraan. Please see the first two words in the beginning of Verse 35 of Surah 3 Ale-Imraan. |
Posted By: George
Date Posted: 23 May 2006 at 9:41am
BMZ, And the wife of Pharaoh said: (He will be) a consolation for me and for thee. Kill him not. Peradventure he may be of use to us, or we may choose him for a son. And they perceived not. S. 28:7-9 Pickthall |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 23 May 2006 at 10:14am
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George, "We are back to square one. The Qur'an says wife and the Holy Bible says daughter." Yes, we are back to square one. I believe that the Qur'aan is right as it explains better, being closer to Hebrew and Aramaic. As for the Bible saying that it was the daughter, it could have been some kind of mistranslation. Please keep in mind that Moses was about a 1,000 over years there before Jesus and the Greek translations might have made Pharoah's wife a daughter like they made Jesus the prophet/messenger a son! Also, you have to keep an open mind. Moses could not have been taken by the daughter of Pharoah. She must have been say 20-25 years old, Pharoah might have been say 55 and after Moses was say 30, Pharoah would have been 85. Then Moses is kicked out and returns after say ten years. By that time Pharoah is say 95. Moses starts his work and finally beats the Pharoah and he allows Moses to take the Hebrews out. It just doesn't add up, George. Qur'aan is therefore, correct. Moses must have been taken by Pharoah's wife who could have been childless at that point of time. Pharoah's hardened heart melts as it is being done on purpose by God. He takes the child and Moses grows to be a Prince and a commander fighting battles for Pharoah and this looks more reasonable. |
Posted By: George
Date Posted: 23 May 2006 at 1:26pm
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George, "We are back to square one. The Qur'an says wife and the Holy Bible says daughter." Yes, we are back to square one. I believe that the Qur'aan is right as it explains better, being closer to Hebrew and Aramaic. BMZ, I used the Hebrew Scriptures, making your explanation invalid.
As for the Bible saying that it was the daughter, it could have been some kind of mistranslation. Please keep in mind that Moses was about a 1,000 over years there before Jesus and the Greek translations might have made Pharoah's wife a daughter like they made Jesus the prophet/messenger a son! I didn't use the Greek. I used the Hebrew, the same that the Jews use, which makes your explanation invalid.
Also, you have to keep an open mind. Moses could not have been taken by the daughter of Pharoah. She must have been say 20-25 years old, Note from the Jewish scriptures: Some say that she could not have children of her own (Philo, De Vita Moses 2:201; Wisdom 19:6). This would explain why the daughter adopted Moses.
Pharoah might have been say 55 and after Moses was say 30, Pharoah would have been 85. Then Moses is kicked out and returns after say ten years. By that time Pharoah is say 95. Moses starts his work and finally beats the Pharoah and he allows Moses to take the Hebrews out. It just doesn't add up, George. What does this have to do with Pharaoh's daughter adopting Moses?
Qur'aan is therefore, correct. Not based on anything that you have presented.
Moses must have been taken by Pharoah's wife who could have been childless at that point of time. Pharoah's hardened heart melts as it is being done on purpose by God. He takes the child and Moses grows to be a Prince and a commander fighting battles for Pharoah and this looks more reasonable. How could Pharaoh's wife be childless when she had a daughter? It looks "more reasonable" that it was Pharaoh's daughter who adopted Moses since the Hebrew Scriptures say so and since it was she who could not have a child and one dropped into her lap so to speak. And in addition, the New Testament affirms it: Acts 7: 21 But when he was set out, Pharaoh�s daughter took him away and brought him up as her own son. Peace |
Posted By: AbRah2006
Date Posted: 24 May 2006 at 7:17am
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My response to George: The Bible is not a reliable source by making contradictory statements about Moses. For example: 1)Who was Moses' father-in-law? Answer: Which one?...Jethro ( http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/3.html#1 - Exodus 3:1 ) , Hobab ( http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/jg/4.html#11 - Judgges 4:11 ) or Reuel ( http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/2.html#18 - Exodus 2:18-21 ) 2)Was Moses meek? Answer: Yes, he was the meekest man who ever lived. ( http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/num/12.html#3 - Numbers 12:3 ) or No, he was vicious and cruel. ( http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/num/31.html#14 - Numbers 31:14-18 )....lol..........Yes or no? |
Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 24 May 2006 at 7:47am
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(George) �The problem with this theory [�documentary hypothesis�] is it's written by 19th century German intellectuals who had no understanding of Jewish Issues and History.� Were you intending to be funny, or glib here? �The Jews would tell you that God wrote the Pentateuch.� Sorry. Not all of them would. Richard Friedman, in this book, gives an update of the state of modern scholarship and of the widespread acceptability of the hypothesis in academic and scholastic circles which, of course, includes many Jews: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060630353/002-6209254-1477664?v=glance&n=283155 - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060630353/002-6209254-1477 664?v=glance&n=283155 Serv |