The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men: 

 Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested."

Both of the above Quranic references instruct the Muslim woman to cover herself with a large, loose overcoat (jilbab) and full head covering (khimar) so that no provocative part of her body will be visible. Her modest appearance would MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT SHE IS A CHASTE, BELIEVING WOMAN, and no one is to molest her or sexually exploit her.

 let us shed some light on what is considered in the west as the greatest symbol of women's oppression and servitude, the veil or the head cover. Is it true that there is no such thing as the veil in the Judaeo-Christian tradition? let's set the record straight.

According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book 'The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature', it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying," It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen....a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty."

Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity". Dr. Brayer also mentions that "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense."

Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman wasn't always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It, also, represented a woman's inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. It is clear in the Old Testament that uncovering a woman's head was a great disgrace and that's why the priest had to uncover the suspected adulteress in her trial by ordeal (Numbers 5:16-18).

What about the Christian tradition? It is well known that Catholic Nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years, but that's not all. St. Paul in the New Testament made some very interesting statements about the veil," Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head - it is just as though her head were shaved.

If a woman doesn't cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man didn't come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." (I Corinthians 11:3-10)

St Paul's rationale for veiling women is that the veil represents a sign of authority of the man, who is the image and glory of God, over the woman who was created from and for the man. St. Tertullian in his famous treatise 'On The Veiling Of Virgins' wrote," Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers..."

Among the Canon laws of the Catholic church today, there is a law that require women to cover their heads in church. Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites for example, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is "The head covering is a symbol of woman's subjection to the man and to God" : The same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament.

From all the above evidence, it is obvious that Islam didn't invent the head cover, but Islam endorsed it. The Quran urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty......And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms...." (24:30,31).

The Quran is quite clear that the veil is an essential part of a recipe designed for the purposes of modesty, but why modesty? The Quran is still clear "O prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (33:59). This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection.

Thus, the only purpose of the veil in Islam is protection. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil of the Christian tradition, is not a sign of man's authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman's subjection to man. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition, is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble married women.The Islamic veil is only a sign of modesty with the sole purpose of protecting women, all women.

The Islamic philosophy is that it is always better safe than sorry. In fact, the Quran is so concerned with protecting women's bodies and women's reputation that a man who dares to falsely accuse a woman of unchastity will be severely punished," And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations)- Flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors"(24:4).

Compare this strict Quranic attitude with the extremely lax punishment for rape in the Bible " If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished? The man who only paid a fine for rape, or the girl who is forced to marry the man who raped her and live with him until he dies? Another question that also should be asked is this: which is more protective of women, the Quranic strict attitude or the Biblical lax attitude?

Some people, especially in the West, would tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilised behaviour, and self restraint. We would say: Fine but not enough. If 'civilization' is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America, dare not walk alone in a dark street - or even across an empty parking lot ? If Education is the solution, then why is it that a respected university like ours has a 'walk home service' for female students on campus? If self restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace on the news media every day? A sample of those accused of sexual harassment, in the last few years, includes: Navy officers, Managers, University professors, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, and the President of the United States! I couldn't believe my eyes when I read the following statistics, written in a pamphlet issued by the Dean of Women's office at Queen's University:

• In Canada, a woman is sexually assaulted every 6 minutes",
• 1 in 3 women in Canada will be sexually assaulted at some time in their lives",
• 1 in 4 women are at the risk of rape or attempted rape in her lifetime",
• 1 in 8 women will be sexually assaulted while attending college or university, and
• A study found 60% of Canadian university-aged males said they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they wouldn't get caught."
• SEXUAL ASSAULT in USA: Every year approximately 132,000 women report that they have been victims of rape or attempted rape, and more than half of them knew their attackers. It's estimated that two to six times that many women are raped, but do not report it. Every year 1.2 million women are forcibly raped by their current or former male partners, some more than once.

Something is fundamentally wrong in the society we live in. A radical change in the society's life style and culture is absolutely necessary. A culture of modesty is badly needed, modesty in dress, in speech, and in manners of both men and women. Otherwise, the grim statistics will grow even worse day after day and , unfortunately, women alone will be paying the price. Therefore, a society like France which expels young women from schools because of their modest dress is, in the end, simply harming itself.

THE BENEFITS OF HIJAB (COVERING) FOR WOMEN

For Muslim women, COVERING THE HEAD IS NOT THE SIGN OF DEGRADATION or oppression. It is a commandment from Allah, who is not male or female, and thus, would not discriminate against women, a segment of His creation.

Rather, HEAD-COVERING IS A SIGN OF PURITY AND DIGNITY. It highlights the Muslim woman as a pure, chaste woman and sets her apart from the immoral behavior associated with women who dress immodestly.

The HIJAB IS A SORT OF "SCREEN" BETWEEN THE CHASTE MUSLIM WOMAN AND THE EVIL THAT EXISTS IN THE WORLD. When a woman wears a hijab she is less likely to be harassed by men with lusty motives; SHE IS LESS LIKELY TO BE EXPLOITED FOR HER BEAUTY AND FEMINITY. 

The Hijab allows a woman to move about outside the confines of her home WITH HER ATTENTION ON THE TASKS SHE HAS SET OUT TO DO. The Muslim woman does not try to impress anyone but Allah when outside of her home. She is not concerned if men find her attractive, or if people are impressed because she has the latest fashions, or the newest hairstyle. She leaves her home as a SELF-CONFIDENT PART OF HUMAN RACE, not as a fashion-plate seeking stares and adoration in order to gain self-esteem. 

The hijab cuts down on competition among women. How many people in the West sacrifice financial savings and health in order to have plastic surgery - in a desperate attempt to meet up to an unrealistic standard of beauty. IN ISLAM, WOMEN ARE APPRECIATED FOR THEIR KNOWLEDGE, PIETY AND CONTRIBUTION TO SOCIETY. When women wear hijab one finds that the most beautiful women are not necessarily the most popular. Rather, a woman is assessed for her mind, and not just superficial physical traits.

The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men: 

 Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested."

Cyril, you would do good if you went to the women's section and bring up the hijab thread/s and read them before continuing, there is much there  pretty much all has been discussed.

Perhaps I will find it for you later and bump it up

Cyril,

If you really want to see women of the whole world in Hijaab, please take a look at any woman's pic of the early 19th Century or perhaps even in that late 19th Century.

Also, please take a look at all old paintings of Mary or even Mona Lisa or Queen Victoria and you will find that they were also practising Hijaab. Mother Theresa is another example of the modern times.

I would like to ask one question, here: Why the Western man is clothed in full Hijabb by a suit instead of women?   Take a look at Bush and Cheney in full hijaab while Ms. Rice is not in full Hijaab.  I pity the poor priests, Pope and the other fathers, who are forced to be dressed in full Hijaab.

The most significant thing I have ever done was in fact incredibly simple. A little over four weeks ago, in front of two witnesses, I recited a simple declaration, the shahada. "I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and I bear witness that Mohammed is His messenger," I said; and from that moment, I was a Muslim.

I made a number of good friends on the course; indeed, most of the Muslims I know well are converts. More people convert into Islam than you might think - approximately 10,000 of Britain's 1.8m Muslims are white or African-Caribbean converts .

Yes I agree with bmzsp and amah.

AbRah2006 wrote: The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men:   Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested." Both of the above Quranic references instruct the Muslim woman to cover herself with a large, loose overcoat (jilbab) and full head covering (khimar) so that no provocative part of her body will be visible. Her modest appearance would MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT SHE IS A CHASTE, BELIEVING WOMAN, and no one is to molest her or sexually exploit her.  let us shed some light on what is considered in the west as the greatest symbol of women's oppression and servitude, the veil or the head cover. Is it true that there is no such thing as the veil in the Judaeo-Christian tradition? let's set the record straight. According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book 'The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature', it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying," It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen....a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty." Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity". Dr. Brayer also mentions that "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense." Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman wasn't always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It, also, represented a woman's inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. It is clear in the Old Testament that uncovering a woman's head was a great disgrace and that's why the priest had to uncover the suspected adulteress in her trial by ordeal (Numbers 5:16-18). What about the Christian tradition? It is well known that Catholic Nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years, but that's not all. St. Paul in the New Testament made some very interesting statements about the veil," Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head - it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman doesn't cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man didn't come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." (I Corinthians 11:3-10) St Paul's rationale for veiling women is that the veil represents a sign of authority of the man, who is the image and glory of God, over the woman who was created from and for the man. St. Tertullian in his famous treatise 'On The Veiling Of Virgins' wrote," Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers..." Among the Canon laws of the Catholic church today, there is a law that require women to cover their heads in church. Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites for example, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is "The head covering is a symbol of woman's subjection to the man and to God" : The same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament. From all the above evidence, it is obvious that Islam didn't invent the head cover, but Islam endorsed it. The Quran urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty......And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms...." (24:30,31). The Quran is quite clear that the veil is an essential part of a recipe designed for the purposes of modesty, but why modesty? The Quran is still clear "O prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (33:59). This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection. Thus, the only purpose of the veil in Islam is protection. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil of the Christian tradition, is not a sign of man's authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman's subjection to man. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition, is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble married women.The Islamic veil is only a sign of modesty with the sole purpose of protecting women, all women. The Islamic philosophy is that it is always better safe than sorry. In fact, the Quran is so concerned with protecting women's bodies and women's reputation that a man who dares to falsely accuse a woman of unchastity will be severely punished," And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations)- Flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors"(24:4). Compare this strict Quranic attitude with the extremely lax punishment for rape in the Bible " If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished? The man who only paid a fine for rape, or the girl who is forced to marry the man who raped her and live with him until he dies? Another question that also should be asked is this: which is more protective of women, the Quranic strict attitude or the Biblical lax attitude? Some people, especially in the West, would tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilised behaviour, and self restraint. We would say: Fine but not enough. If 'civilization' is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America, dare not walk alone in a dark street - or even across an empty parking lot ? If Education is the solution, then why is it that a respected university like ours has a 'walk home service' for female students on campus? If self restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace on the news media every day? A sample of those accused of sexual harassment, in the last few years, includes: Navy officers, Managers, University professors, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, and the President of the United States! I couldn't believe my eyes when I read the following statistics, written in a pamphlet issued by the Dean of Women's office at Queen's University: In Canada, a woman is sexually assaulted every 6 minutes", 1 in 3 women in Canada will be sexually assaulted at some time in their lives", 1 in 4 women are at the risk of rape or attempted rape in her lifetime", 1 in 8 women will be sexually assaulted while attending college or university, and A study found 60% of Canadian university-aged males said they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they wouldn't get caught." SEXUAL ASSAULT in USA: Every year approximately 132,000 women report that they have been victims of rape or attempted rape, and more than half of them knew their attackers. It's estimated that two to six times that many women are raped, but do not report it. Every year 1.2 million women are forcibly raped by their current or former male partners, some more than once. Something is fundamentally wrong in the society we live in. A radical change in the society's life style and culture is absolutely necessary. A culture of modesty is badly needed, modesty in dress, in speech, and in manners of both men and women. Otherwise, the grim statistics will grow even worse day after day and , unfortunately, women alone will be paying the price. Therefore, a society like France which expels young women from schools because of their modest dress is, in the end, simply harming itself. THE BENEFITS OF HIJAB (COVERING) FOR WOMEN For Muslim women, COVERING THE HEAD IS NOT THE SIGN OF DEGRADATION or oppression. It is a commandment from Allah, who is not male or female, and thus, would not discriminate against women, a segment of His creation. Rather, HEAD-COVERING IS A SIGN OF PURITY AND DIGNITY. It highlights the Muslim woman as a pure, chaste woman and sets her apart from the immoral behavior associated with women who dress immodestly. The HIJAB IS A SORT OF "SCREEN" BETWEEN THE CHASTE MUSLIM WOMAN AND THE EVIL THAT EXISTS IN THE WORLD. When a woman wears a hijab she is less likely to be harassed by men with lusty motives; SHE IS LESS LIKELY TO BE EXPLOITED FOR HER BEAUTY AND FEMINITY.  The Hijab allows a woman to move about outside the confines of her home WITH HER ATTENTION ON THE TASKS SHE HAS SET OUT TO DO. The Muslim woman does not try to impress anyone but Allah when outside of her home. She is not concerned if men find her attractive, or if people are impressed because she has the latest fashions, or the newest hairstyle. She leaves her home as a SELF-CONFIDENT PART OF HUMAN RACE, not as a fashion-plate seeking stares and adoration in order to gain self-esteem.  The hijab cuts down on competition among women. How many people in the West sacrifice financial savings and health in order to have plastic surgery - in a desperate attempt to meet up to an unrealistic standard of beauty. IN ISLAM, WOMEN ARE APPRECIATED FOR THEIR KNOWLEDGE, PIETY AND CONTRIBUTION TO SOCIETY. When women wear hijab one finds that the most beautiful women are not necessarily the most popular. Rather, a woman is assessed for her mind, and not just superficial physical traits. The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men:   Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested."

Bismilllah,

Your article comparing these faiths is interesting and informative.  However, as a Muslim woman revert who wore scarf for about 15 years, I respectfully state that from my personal knowledge of men, women, history, and life that the stated facts quoting assault only in Western countries is indeed misleading. 

The statistics for assault are not published or are not accurate or are not well known in Muslim countries.   It is vitally valid that we compare these facts correctly in order to be honest and find viable modalities to implement genuine protection of the poor, the weak, and women and children from abuse, neglect, starvation, assault including rape and the degradation which societies and they themselves heap upon them. 

As a trustworthy and circumspect Muslim woman revert, I personally have had Muslim women from non-Western countries confide in me when they had told noone else their entire lives of rapes in their childhoods by uncles, cousins, or just family trusted friends.  And then there are stories such as the one of May in Pakistan who was raped publically by many members of the local city council as a punishment for speaking in her brother's defense (While she wore her hijab).

Wearing modest clothing is incumbent upon us all to encourage good behavior.  We just need to get our facts straight and research this fully to understand under what circumstances women really will be safer from attack. 

And I would never say a woman was attacked because of her clothing.  It is a man's evil intentions and behavior that is the sole cause.  Avert your eyes brothers, for women will dress in ways that may allure you (some might be, and I have been told this, excited by a sparkly hijab).  You are responsible for your own behavior, and also need to protect your family and community members from harm.  And don't blame the victim or ostracize her, min shan Allah!

Peace

Dear sister herjihad,

Assalamulikum to you sister...Congratulation to you for you are chosen by Allah to be Muslim who believe in Allah and His messenger the prophet Muhammad and thank you for your opinion and I appreciate it. If we believe in Allah and His messenger we should obey them.

Your statement: As a trustworthy and circumspect Muslim woman revert, I personally have had Muslim women from non-Western countries confide in me when they had told noone else their entire lives of rapes in their childhoods by uncles, cousins, or just family trusted friends.  And then there are stories such as the one of May in Pakistan who was raped publically by many members of the local city council as a punishment for speaking in her brother's defense (While she wore her hijab).

We should be careful when we hear or read the stories above because we don't know what had really happened. We did not personally witness the events so how could we believe in them unless they bring us the reliable witnesses and proofs to support their claims. After all we are not the judges to say that one party is wrong and the other is right. The women should report the alleged rapes to the police or bring the matter to the court!

We all know that the Western media is biased against Muslims and Islam so we should be careful when we read any news about Islam and Muslims. We should investigate to know whether the news is genuine or a fabrication. The media is known to be biased against Islam and Muslims and it even discredits Muslims as terrorists and Islam as a religion of terrorists. In fact it prejudges Muslims. For example: The Oklahoma bombing inwhich Muslims were accused of bombing the federal building and as a consequence of the lie Muslims were persecuted by non-Muslims etc. Later we found out that it was the Christians who bombed the Federal building!

Islam forbids rape so raping any woman is a crime in Islam and the rapists must be punished severely.

�The Prophet said, �There shall be no infliction of harm on oneself or others". �Others� includes all people, so also women and girls ! Raping a woman or girl is clearly doing her harm (emotional and physical) which would be a big sin for a muslim to commit and violation of the above hadith.

And again in another hadith the prophet (saw) makes clear that rape of female slaves is forbidden, The prophet (peace be upon him)  said: �Whoever causes harm to others subjects himself to harm caused by God.�

Let us look at how Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him dealt with the rapists:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

"When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her.  She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.

She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him).  When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you.  And about the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.

He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them.  (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366)"

A woman who is being forced to commit zinaa [unlawful sexual activity] is obliged to defend herself and should not give in even if she kills the one who wants to do that to her. This self-defence is waajib (obligatory), and she is not at fault if she kills the one who wants to force her into zinaa. Imaam Ahmad and Ibn Hibbaan reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: �Whoever is killed defending his property is a shaheed (martyr), whoever is killed defending himself is a shaheed, whoever is killed defending his religion is a shaheed, and whoever is killed defending his family is a shaheed.� In the commentary on this hadeeth it says: �whoever is killed defending his family is a shaheed� refers to the one who defends the honour of his wife and female relatives.

If a man is obliged to defend his wife and fight off the one who wants to rape her � even if this leads to his own death � then this obligation applies even more to the woman herself, who must defend herself and not give in to the aggressor who wants to violate her honour, even if she is killed, because if she is killed she will also be a shaheedah, just as her husband will be a shaheed if he was killed defending her honour. Shahaadah (martyrdom, the status of shaheed) is a high status which is only achieved by the one who dies in the way of obedience to Allaah and that which He loves, which indicates that Allaah loves this kind of defence, a man�s fighting to defend his wife�s honour and a woman�s fighting to defend herself. But if she is unable to defend herself, and the evil aggressor overpowers her and rapes her by force, then she should not be subjected to any punishment (hadd or ta�zeer); rather, the punishment should be carried out on the evil aggressor.

It says in al-Mughni by Ibn Qudaamah al-Hanbali: �Concerning a woman who was pursued by a man, and she killed him to protect herself, Ahmad said: �If she knew that he wanted [to rape] her, and she killed him to protect herself, then she is not at fault.� Ahmad mentioned the hadeeth which al-Zuhri reported from al-Qaasim ibn Muhammad, from �Ubayd ibn �Umayr, in which it said that a man had visitors from [the tribe of] Hudhayl, and he wanted [to rape] a woman, so she threw a rock at him and killed him. �Umar said, �By Allaah, there is no diyah for him ever� i.e., she did not have to pay the �blood money� for him.

May I ask you a question? What are the probability of getting raped for the women below ?

a) a fully naked women.

b) a semi-naked woman.

c) a woman who wear clothers in such a way that she causes the men who watch her become so lustful. 

d) a woman who wears modest clothing.

Please give your reasons for your answer.

Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes. 683,00 forcible rapes occur every year, which equals 56,916 per month; 1,871 per day, 78 per hour; and 1.3 per minute.

At the opening session of an international conference on "violence against women: zero tolerance", organised by the Portuguese presidency in Lisbon, the European Commissioner for Employment and Social Affairs, Anna Diamantopoulou stated : "Globally, men's violence against women causes more deaths and disability among females aged 15-44 than cancer, malaria, traffic accidents or war"(Harvard Study, the Global Burden of Disease, 1996).

A Dutch study reports that domestic violence alone costs the state more than euro 150 million a year, measuring health costs and loss of working time on account of domestic violence. 22% of women in Finland have suffered violence by their partners.
In Portugal, 52,9% of women have been the victims of violence inflicted by their partners. In Ireland in 1998, over half of all women murdered were killed by their partners or husbands. In Austria 50% of divorces are filed on the grounds of violence against women.

South Africa reports the highest incidence of rape in the world. A woman is raped every 20 seconds; and only one in 35 reports it to the authorities. A recent report issued by the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan estimated that a woman is raped every two hours in Pakistan, but it said most sexual assaults went unreported because of the social stigma attached to such charges and the difficulty in proving them. In Punjab a woman is raped every six hours and a woman is gang-raped every four days, yet only 321 rape cases were reported to the police last year.
Every 26 minutes a woman in India is molested. Every 34 minutes a woman is raped. Every 42 minutes a woman is sexually harassed. Every 43 minutes a woman is kidnapped. Every 93 minutes a woman is killed. And those are just the cases that are reported.


Sources:
U.S. Department of Justice, 1994.
National Crime Victimization Survey, Bureau of Justice Statistics. Human Rights Commission of Pakistan.
AASRA ( Asian American support and resource agency.
Anna Diamantopoulou (European Commissioner for Employment and Social Affairs).

Dear herjihad please compare the statistics above and please let me know about your objective findings and conclusion. Your opinion is appreciated very much.

Interesting.

If Muslim women are to wear head scarves as a sign of modesty along with showing that they are chaste Muslim women, then why do so many Muslim women wear so much eye makeup drawing attention to one of the most beautiful parts of their bodies?

Why do I see Muslim women with eye makeup and headscarves wearing tight pants and tight sweaters?

I don't think that dressing modestly will prevent a woman from being raped.  Rape is a sign of violence, not lust.  Any woman could be wearing a full tent and still get raped.

Muslim men should all wear those white "dresses."  Muslim women should not be allowed to see the Muslim men's biceps or look at them in tight pants.

I think if all men were brought up to respect women it would not matter what they wore, within reason.

Peace

Most rapists are not in it for the sex...

The Rapist
Imagine a typical rapist. Whom do you picture? A sex-crazed man? A psychopath? More often than not, those stereotypes are wrong. Most rapists don't look peculiar or act strangely. But they may be less stable and more aggressive than most people. They may dislike women. Mainly, they want to hurt, humiliate, and degrade another human being.

Rapists are not always strangers to their victims. In over one-third of reported cases, the rapist is an acquaintance, neighbor, friend, or relative.

http://www.cityofmesa.org/police/literature/rapeprev.asp - http://www.cityofmesa.org/police/literature/rapeprev.asp

How the women who are naked, semi-naked or wear clothes or behave in such a way that they become sexual objects cause men to rape them:

1) There are rapists who are influenced by deviant sexual arousal, which occurs when he has thoughts of violence against women. This type is likely to be extremely impulsive.

2) There are rapists who are motivated by cognitive distortions, or thinking errors; he mistakenly interprets events or information differently than other men would. He believes that some women enjoy being raped, or want to be raped. For this type, rape is part of a conquest, a way of demonstrating masculinity. Most date rapists are belong to this group.

3) There are rapists who are motivated by anger or emotional discontrol. These men are so angry, especially at women, that the only way for them to deal with their anger is to act out sexually toward women. Not surprisingly, this type is the most violent and most dangerous.

4) There are rapists who are the repeat offenders. He is most likely to have been physically or sexually abused as a child. He has difficulty establishing enduring relationships, and a history of chronic problems in schools or in his family. Type 4 men break a variety of rules, both sexual and nonsexual.

You can ask a behavioral researcher why men rape and he says they just get turned on by the wrong stimuli!

Islam gives us a good way to follow to minimise the probability of rape:

The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men: 

 Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested."

Both of the above Quranic references instruct the Muslim woman to cover herself with a large, loose overcoat (jilbab) and full head covering (khimar) so that no provocative part of her body will be visible. Her modest appearance would MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT SHE IS A CHASTE, BELIEVING WOMAN, and no one is to molest her or sexually exploit her.

According to Islam a woman or girl should be accompanied by her parents, brothers, husbands or uncles who will look after her to minimise the chances of getting raped.

My questions for AnnieTwo Angela and George:

Why do the Christian missionaries and priests molest and rape their followers in the churches etc? Why the church sex scandals spans spectrum of churches in USA etc? What cause the Christian missionaries and priests  to molest and rape their followers etc?

I am waiting for your answer!

MYTH: The motive for rape is sexual. Rape is the result of either uncontrollable sexual urges or a lack of sexual opportunities.

AbRah2006 for the question and to

AbRah,

Why do muslim men beat their wives, lock them in their home and don't let them go to school after the age of 8??  Or why do the Morality police refuse to let young girls out of a burning building because they didn't have time to grab their veils?  Why do Muslim Shariah courts demand the death of a convert (who was mentally ill) when the Quran states their is no compulsion in religion????  Why do muslim men blow themselves up killing civilians in a war when both suicide and murder of innocents are forbidden in Islam????

The fact is that the actions of a few cannot speak for the religion as a whole.  My church has 54,000 missionaries in the field....yet, the incidents of violence are less than 1%. 

There are 1000s of priests, and only a few dozen have committed the crimes you are talking about with the Catholic Church.

I could start asking similarly stupid, racist and ignorant questions just as I did in the beginning of the post.  The only difference.  I'm smart enough to know that humans are fallible and that the actions of a few cannot speak for the actions of many.

AbRah2006 wrote: How the women who are naked, semi-naked or wear clothes or behave in such a way that they become sexual objects cause men to rape them: 1) There are rapists who are influenced by deviant sexual arousal, which occurs when he has thoughts of violence against women. This type is likely to be extremely impulsive. 2) There are rapists who are motivated by cognitive distortions, or thinking errors; he mistakenly interprets events or information differently than other men would. He believes that some women enjoy being raped, or want to be raped. For this type, rape is part of a conquest, a way of demonstrating masculinity. Most date rapists are belong to this group. 3) There are rapists who are motivated by anger or emotional discontrol. These men are so angry, especially at women, that the only way for them to deal with their anger is to act out sexually toward women. Not surprisingly, this type is the most violent and most dangerous. 4) There are rapists who are the repeat offenders. He is most likely to have been physically or sexually abused as a child. He has difficulty establishing enduring relationships, and a history of chronic problems in schools or in his family. Type 4 men break a variety of rules, both sexual and nonsexual. You can ask a behavioral researcher why men rape and he says they just get turned on by the wrong stimuli! Islam gives us a good way to follow to minimise the probability of rape: The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men:   Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested." Both of the above Quranic references instruct the Muslim woman to cover herself with a large, loose overcoat (jilbab) and full head covering (khimar) so that no provocative part of her body will be visible. Her modest appearance would MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT SHE IS A CHASTE, BELIEVING WOMAN, and no one is to molest her or sexually exploit her. According to Islam a woman or girl should be accompanied by her parents, brothers, husbands or uncles who will look after her to minimise the chances of getting raped.

Where did you get these facts?  Please post the website or source.

If you read your own arguement, you can still see that the underlying factors to rape is not sex but the illness and distortion in the brain of the man.  Most victims are not raped because of their attire, but they were a convenient target for the rapist.  That is why young women are taught how to protect themselves.  In colleges there are awareness classes and educational seminars.

Rape is not about sex.  Its about control.

Angela wrote: AbRah2006 wrote: How the women who are naked, semi-naked or wear clothes or behave in such a way that they become sexual objects cause men to rape them: 1) There are rapists who are influenced by deviant sexual arousal, which occurs when he has thoughts of violence against women. This type is likely to be extremely impulsive. 2) There are rapists who are motivated by cognitive distortions, or thinking errors; he mistakenly interprets events or information differently than other men would. He believes that some women enjoy being raped, or want to be raped. For this type, rape is part of a conquest, a way of demonstrating masculinity. Most date rapists are belong to this group. 3) There are rapists who are motivated by anger or emotional discontrol. These men are so angry, especially at women, that the only way for them to deal with their anger is to act out sexually toward women. Not surprisingly, this type is the most violent and most dangerous. 4) There are rapists who are the repeat offenders. He is most likely to have been physically or sexually abused as a child. He has difficulty establishing enduring relationships, and a history of chronic problems in schools or in his family. Type 4 men break a variety of rules, both sexual and nonsexual. You can ask a behavioral researcher why men rape and he says they just get turned on by the wrong stimuli! Islam gives us a good way to follow to minimise the probability of rape: The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men:   Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested." Both of the above Quranic references instruct the Muslim woman to cover herself with a large, loose overcoat (jilbab) and full head covering (khimar) so that no provocative part of her body will be visible. Her modest appearance would MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT SHE IS A CHASTE, BELIEVING WOMAN, and no one is to molest her or sexually exploit her. According to Islam a woman or girl should be accompanied by her parents, brothers, husbands or uncles who will look after her to minimise the chances of getting raped. If you read your own arguement, you can still see that the underlying factors to rape is not sex but the illness and distortion in the brain of the man.  Most victims are not raped because of their attire, but they were a convenient target for the rapist.  That is why young women are taught how to protect themselves.  In colleges there are awareness classes and educational seminars. Rape is not about sex.  Its about control.

where did you get these facts angela? can you post the source or website? why do you feel always that women are completely innocent? why do you always put the blame on men?

i appreciate the way abrah has presented his points. masha Allah . abrah i liked your post very much, you are right, i agree with you.

Why do I put the blame on men?????  Are you serious?  Who's the one in the hospital?  Who is the one who must suffer all her life because a MAN could not control himself????  It is NEVER THE VICTIMS FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

If a man is unable to control himself, then it is not the woman's fault.  Many date rapes the woman is drugged.  That means the man went there intending to find the victim, or he wouldn't have brought the Ruphenol or GHB.  Or do you think he just brought the drugs with him for kicks?  If a man is hanging out in a park waiting for a lone female jogger, isn't he already made the choice to rape long before he sees the woman in shorts??? 

Its men who refuse to acknowledge the problem is with the men who rape and constantly blame the victims that keep the system of rape and violence alive.  Why don't you just own up to the fact that men aren't trustworthy and that's why father's and husband's have to protect their daughters????

http://www.powerforwomen.org/facts - http://www.powerforwomen.org/facts

Angela wrote: Why don't you just own up to the fact that men aren't trustworthy and that's why father's and husband's have to protect their daughters????

angela, what are you saying? please, sometimes agree that all the time men are not responsible. please don't put all the blame on men. please, re-read abrah's post with an unbiased attitude and try to understand and ponder over the points.

Angela wrote : Why don't you just owm up to the fact that men aren't trustworthy?

angela, by this you are questioning Allah. Allah would not have created men if he knew that all men were not trustworthy.

Allah has created both men and women, knowing that a man cannot live without a woman and a woman cannot live without a man. when Allah created Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) Prophet Adam was feeling very lonely, so Allah created for Adam eve (hawwa) so that adam would get rid of loneliness. a man cannot live without a woman and a woman cannot live without a man.

so please, don't put the all the blame on men, if you think that men are responsible for the evils, then you also must believe that women also are as much responsible in contributing to the evils.

Angela,

I want to help you to understand the psychology of the rapists:

What is your reaction when you see a very delicious food on the table?

What is your reaction when you see a woman holding a knife walking toward you?

What is your reaction when you see a man holding a bloody knife before you?

What is your reaction when you see your favourite food on the table?

What is your reaction when you see a very beautiful picture?

What is your reaction  when you are about to eat a sour orange ?

What is your reaction when you see your baby is about to be killed before you?

What is your reaction when your husband is about to be killed?

What is your reaction when you meet a very ugly man during the moonless night?

What is your reaction when you see your husband is full of love bites?

What is your reaction when the bell of your home rings?

What is your reaction when your relatives come to your home and press the bell?

What is your reaction when you see the most attractive ring and you can afford it?

What is your reaction when  policemen come to your home?

What is your reaction when you see someone are wearing your clothes without your permission?

AbRah2006 wrote: Angela, I want to help you to understand the psychology of the rapists: What is your reaction when you see a very delicious food on the table? What is your reaction when you a woman holding a knife walking toward you? What is your reaction when you see a man holding a bloody knife before you? What is your reaction when you see your favourite food on the table? What is your reaction when you see a very beautiful picture? What is your reaction  when you are about to eat a sour orange ? What is your reaction when you see your baby is about to be killed before you? What is your reaction when your husband is about to be killed? What is your reaction when you meet a very ugly man during the moonless night? What is your reaction when you see your husband is full of love bites? What is your reaction when the bell of your home rings? What is your reaction when your relatives come to your home and press the bell? What is your reaction when you see the most attractive ring and you can afford it? What is your reaction when  policemen come to your home? What is your reaction when you see someone are wearing your clothes without your permission?

You are assuming that rapists think the same way a normal person does.....

I'm manic depressive, my reactions to some of the above questions would not be the same as a normal person.

A rapist could see a nun walking down the street in full habit and just because she smiles at him, think she wants him sexually.  Rapists don't think like normal men. 

If you saw a pretty woman walking down the street in a long skirt, opaque stockings and a white shirt, would you think about her sexually?  Would you attack and rape her?  Of course not.  But a rapist would.....

AbRah,

I worked for a facility that dealt with Children with Psychiatric problems and for a Domestic Violence shelter (which included a rape hotline).  I am more than qualified and trained on the issue of rape.  I have seen the disgusting after effects and victims and trust me.  A 20 year old girl wearing sweatpants and a t-shirt is not a sexy vixen asking to be raped.  You just want to blame the victims to support your perverted view of the world.

Angela said:  You just want to blame the victims to support your perverted view of the world.

My response: I won't blame anybody unless I know exactly what happen before, during and after the rape and the motives of the rape. Men should not rape women and women should not wear clothes or behave in such a way that incite men to rape them.

Lets me quote one of your quotes:

AbRah2006 wrote: Men should not rape women and women should not wear clothes or behave in such a way that incite men to rape them. Lets me quote one of your quotes: MYTH: Most rapes are committed by strangers in the dark of night in out-of-the-way places. FACT: Over 80% of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows. People are at greater risk because they do not recognize familiar people or people from the same social, economic, racial, or cultural backgrounds as possible rapists. The majority of assaults occur in the home of the victim or the offender, or someone the victim or offender knows. Over 50% of assaults occur during the day. Over 80% of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows.  AND MOST OF THE RAPISTS ARE NORMAL PEOPLE! Will you befriend  a crazy or mad man? You won't ! Angela said: MYTH: Women falsely accuse men of rape.         & amp; amp; nbsp;         & amp; amp; nbsp;         & amp; amp; nbsp;        FACT: The FBI has stated that false reports of rape are no higher than false reports for other crimes. Such accusations account for only 2% of reported rapes. Rape is the most underreported of all crimes. Some data suggests that 80%-90% of rapes are never reported to the police. Lets say a woman want to frame a man by accusing him of raping her. The woman ask her friends to come to her home at 8.00 pm and her friends agree to come. Then she invite a man to come to her home and then The man  take off her clothes and they have sex at 7.30 pm. At 8.00 pm her friends appear before her home and suddenly she cry for help claiming that a man has trespassed her home and raped her. She is saying it while ripping her own clothes inside her home. The law is against him for it is not his home, his semen and the physical proofs will ensure that the man will be sent to prison and his reputation is destryed ! How many VIPs are doomed for having sex with women?

Rape is a women do not want to admit to when its real?  Why would a woman every lie about such a thing?  It happens, but such a small amount its unbelieveable you even use it as an excuse.

As for Men thinking normally when they rape???  What planet do you live on that a rapist thinks like a normal human being????

Oh, and most rape victims were not dressed in provacative clothing when their rapes occurred, and with 80% of rapes being premeditated, it doesnt' matter what the woman is wearing.

Angela wrote: AbRah, I worked for a facility that dealt with Children with Psychiatric problems and for a Domestic Violence shelter (which included a rape hotline).  I am more than qualified and trained on the issue of rape.  I have seen the disgusting after effects and victims and trust me.  A 20 year old girl wearing sweatpants and a t-shirt is not a sexy vixen asking to be raped.  You just want to blame the victims to support your perverted view of the world.

My response:  What is your professional qualification?

Abrah wrote:

"My response: I won't blame anybody unless I know exactly what happen before, during and after the rape and the motives of the rape. Men should not rape women and women should not wear clothes or behave in such a way that incite men to rape them."

Assalamu Alaikum:

Rape is an act of violence, not a sexual act. Anyone who states otherwise is ignorant of the facts. The victims of rape range from newborn babies, to elderly women, to men. To state that someone is raped because of the clothes they wear is a gross misstatement, and actually quite offensive. What could a baby possibly be wearing that would cause sexual excitement in a man? What about an elderly woman or another man? There are women and children who are raped in the Middle East and other Muslim majority countries. These women are usually wearing hijab. And the Janjaweed are raping babies, girls, and women in record numbers. These women are wearing hijab.

Men who commit rape are predators who enjoy the control and violence of the situation. They are not normal, nor is their sexual drive. What excites them has nothing to do with normal sexual desire. It is the issue of violence and having full control.

I find it very troubling that anyone would blame a rape victim for their attack. Just as it would trouble me if a murder victim were blamed for being murdered.

Available data greatly underestimate the true magnitude of the problem. Rape is one of the most underreported crimes. In 2002, only 39% of rapes and sexual assaults were reported to law enforcement officials (DOJ 2003). While not an exhaustive list, here are some statistics on the occurrence of sexual violence.

• About 2 out of 1000 children in the United States were confirmed by child protective service agencies as having experienced sexual assault in 2003 (DHHS 2005).  See child maltreatment fact sheet for more information.

Angela said: Rape is a women do not want to admit to when its real?  Why would a woman every lie about such a thing?  It happens, but such a small amount its unbelieveable you even use it as an excuse.

My response: It is a small amount to you but it is a large amount to me!  Lets us see what you have quoted: Women falsely accuse men of rape. Fact: Such accusations account for only 2% of reported rapes.

Let us assume that there are 1 000 000 cases of rape in USA. How many men are framed women? Lets me calculate.

The number of men who are falsely accused of raping women

= 1 000 000 x 2/100

=10 000 men will end up in jails.

There are certain motives that incite men to rape and two of the motives are women who are naked, semi-naked or wear clothes or behave in such a way that they become sexual objects that incite men to rape the women. Some rapists will not rape the victims on the spot but they will rape the women when the opportunites, space and time exist for them to rape!  I don't condone rapists. In fact I hate the rapists as much as you do!

1) There are rapists who are influenced by deviant sexual arousal, which occurs when he has thoughts of violence against women. This type is likely to be extremely impulsive.

2) There are rapists who are motivated by cognitive distortions, or thinking errors; he mistakenly interprets events or information differently than other men would. He believes that some women enjoy being raped, or want to be raped. For this type, rape is part of a conquest, a way of demonstrating masculinity. Most date rapists are belong to this group.

3) There are rapists who are motivated by anger or emotional discontrol. These men are so angry, especially at women, that the only way for them to deal with their anger is to act out sexually toward women. Not surprisingly, this type is the most violent and most dangerous.

4) There are rapists who are the repeat offenders. He is most likely to have been physically or sexually abused as a child. He has difficulty establishing enduring relationships, and a history of chronic problems in schools or in his family. Type 4 men break a variety of rules, both sexual and nonsexual.

You can ask a behavioral researcher why men rape and he says they just get turned on by the wrong stimuli!

Islam gives us a good way to follow to minimise the probability of rape:

The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men: 

 Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested."

Both of the above Quranic references instruct the Muslim woman to cover herself with a large, loose overcoat (jilbab) and full head covering (khimar) so that no provocative part of her body will be visible. Her modest appearance would MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT SHE IS A CHASTE, BELIEVING WOMAN, and no one is to molest her or sexually exploit her.

According to Islam a woman or girl should be accompanied by her parents, brothers, husbands or uncles who will look after her to minimise the chances of getting raped.

AbRah2006 wrote: Angela said: Rape is a women do not want to admit to when its real?  Why would a woman every lie about such a thing?  It happens, but such a small amount its unbelieveable you even use it as an excuse. My response: It is a small amount to you but it is a large amount to me!  Lets us see what you have quoted: Women falsely accuse men of rape. Fact: Such accusations account for only 2% of reported rapes. Let us assume that there are 1 000 000 cases of rape in USA. How many men are framed women? Lets me calculate. The number of men who are falsely accused of raping women = 1 000 000 x 2/100 =10 000 men will end up in jails.

Actually, even in these times rape is still difficult to prove. Many men who actually commit rape do not go to jail. Even those who do go to jail do not always spend much time behind bars. Especially men who commit child rape.

You know Brother, defending rapists is not good dawah..... In Islam the rapist is put to death, as it should be.

Assalamu Alaikum:

Well Brother Abrah, if you are ever raped, I hope that you will not be accused of wearing the wrong clothes that caused the rapist to attack you, thereby making it your fault.

I do not wear hijab to stop rape. If someone wants to rape, the way you are dressed will not stop them. I wear hijab for MY modesty.

Dear Mishmish....I am not defending rapists and I wish I can protect women from the devils. Please read my statement http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5016&PN=1&TPN=2 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5016& ;PN=1&TPN=2

ak_m_f wrote: AbRah2006 wrote: My questions for AnnieTwo and George: [COLOR=#0000ff size=3]Why do the Christian missionaries and priests molest and rape their followers in the churches etc? Why the church sex scandals <SPAN =line]spans spectrum of churches in USA etc? What cause the Christian missionaries and priests  to molest and rape their followers etc?COLOR]   According to the Vatican priest CANNOT be married. So I guess lack of sex makes priest wana molest and rape boys.

Please!!!! If it was lack of sex they could hire a prostitute...  These are sick pedophiles. Any one who rapes is a sick individual.

Why not ask Abrah why this happens. Were the boys dressed too provocatively?

To blame women for the way they dress is ridiculous and actually rather pathetic. Have men become so weak that they use any excuse for their sins?

Make men responsible for their own actions. Doesn't Allah(SWT)?

I was trained under several state regulated programs, including Law Enforcement, PhDs and ER Doctors.  I have been trained in Crisis Intervention, Counseling and Support such as Victim Advocation.  I have also been trained to deal with violent children who are victims of abuse and rape, as well as recognizing the signs of abuse in its various forms.

Angela wrote: AbRah, Why do muslim men beat their wives, lock them in their home and don't let them go to school after the age of 8??  Or why do the Morality police refuse to let young girls out of a burning building because they didn't have time to grab their veils?  Why do Muslim Shariah courts demand the death of a convert (who was mentally ill) when the Quran states their is no compulsion in religion????  Why do muslim men blow themselves up killing civilians in a war when both suicide and murder of innocents are forbidden in Islam???? The fact is that the actions of a few cannot speak for the religion as a whole.  My church has 54,000 missionaries in the field....yet, the incidents of violence are less than 1%.  There are 1000s of priests, and only a few dozen have committed the crimes you are talking about with the Catholic Church. I could start asking similarly stupid, racist and ignorant questions just as I did in the beginning of the post.  The only difference.  I'm smart enough to know that humans are fallible and that the actions of a few cannot speak for the actions of many.

It is my pleasure to prove that you are wrong for attacking Islam.

Any misjudgment or mistakes done by Muslims do not reflect the teachings of Islam.

Since you are attacking Islam lets me compare Islam with Christianity:

The Bible states: The Catholic Bible states explicitly that: "The birth of a daughter is a loss" (Ecclesiasticus 22:3).

A daughter is considered a painful burden, a potential source of shame to her father:

"Your daughter is headstrong? Keep a sharp look-out that she does not make you the laughing stock of your enemies, the talk of the town, the object of common gossip, and put you to public shame" (Ecclesiasticus 42:11).

"Keep a headstrong daughter under firm control, or she will abuse any indulgence she receives. Keep a strict watch on her shameless eye, do not be surprised if she disgraces you" (Ecclesiasticus 26:10-11).  

The sad part is you missed a part of my statement.....

Angela wrote: I could start asking similarly stupid, racist and ignorant questions just as I did in the beginning of the post.  The only difference.  I'm smart enough to know that humans are fallible and that the actions of a few cannot speak for the actions of many.

I do not disagree that THE HOLY QURAN gives women freedoms and rights.  That does not change the fact that under the Taliban, millions of women were denied these rights or that in Saudia Arabia 50 girls died because the religious police would not let them leave their BURNING school because they were unveiled.  Hypocrites can be found in ALL religions. Islam is no different in that their are men (and women) who claim to be Muslim who don't practice what they are taught and ignore God's words for the sake of their own desires.

Angela wrote: The fact is that the actions of a few cannot speak for the religion as a whole.  My church has 54,000 missionaries in the field....yet, the incidents of violence are less than 1%.  There are 1000s of priests, and only a few dozen have committed the crimes you are talking about with the Catholic Church. I could start asking similarly stupid, racist and ignorant questions just as I did in the beginning of the post.  The only difference.  I'm smart enough to know that humans are fallible and that the actions of a few cannot speak for the actions of many.

Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.

These are findings from national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources (CMR), a tax and legal-advice publisher serving more than 75,000 congregations and 1,000 denominational agencies nationwide.

CMR's annual surveys of about 1,000 churches nationwide have asked about sexual abuse since 1993. They're a remarkable window on a problem that lurked largely in the shadows of public awareness until the Catholic scandals arose.

The surveys suggest that over the past decade, the pace of child-abuse allegations against American churches has averaged 70 a week. The surveys registered a slight downward trend in reported abuse starting in 1997, possibly a result of the introduction of preventive measures by churches.

Tuesday March 20 10:36 AM ET

Report: Priests, Missionaries Sexually Abuse Nuns

By Steve Pagani

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican acknowledged Tuesday a damning report that some priests and missionaries were forcing nuns to have sex with them, and were in some cases committing rape and forcing the victims to have abortions.

Some nuns were forced to take the contraceptive pill, the report cited in the Rome la Repubblica daily said.

The Vatican said the issue was restricted to a certain geographical area but the report cited cases in 23 countries, including the United States, Brazil, the Philippines, India, Ireland and Italy.

Dublin sex-abuse cases near $7 million damages ^{http://www.cwnews.com/news/rss/index.cfm">}

Dublin, Mar. 08 (CWNews.com) - More than 100 priests serving in the Dublin archdiocese have been accused or suspected of sexual abuse, and the Irish archdiocese has paid nearly $7 million to settle lawsuits against clerics, according to statistics released by the archdiocese.

The Dublin archdiocese reports that 91 priests (68 diocesan and 23 religious) have been the subject of allegations of sexual abuse. Another 11 clerics (7 diocesan, 4 religious) have been placed in a separate category as the subject of "suspicions."

To date 8 priests been convicted on criminal charges. Victims have filed 105 lawsuits, of which 65 have been resolved. The archdiocese has paid a total of �5.8 million ($6.9 million) to settle plaintiffs' claims, including �1.7 million ($2 million) in legal costs. Another 35 lawsuits remain unresolved.

http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/">

40 years of abuse detailed in church papers
Boston Archdiocese releases documents showing history of rape, drugs, coverups

Elizabeth Mehren, Josh Getlin, Los Angeles Times

Wednesday, December 4, 2002

Boston -- For more than 40 years, Catholic Church officials here overlooked abuse ranging from the molestation of girls studying to become nuns to drug use by priests with parish youth to homosexual rape, according to thousands of pages of confidential archdiocese documents made public Tuesday.

The records show that as recently as last year, bishops and archbishops in Boston consistently ignored parishioners' complaints while protecting priests and striving to minimize financial damage.

Many examples of clerical sexual abuse have become public since the nationwide clerical abuse scandal erupted in Boston last January. But the memoranda, letters and court filings released Tuesday casts light on offenses and church practices not previously reported.

"This material is qualitatively different than anything we have seen until now," said David Clohessy, national chair of SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests.

Donna Morrissey, a spokeswoman for the archdiocese, acknowledged the damaging contents of the memos.

"We can't change the past," she said. "We can recognize the inadequacy of our policies and change them and recognize the suffering and the pain the victim-survivors have gone through and are continuing to go through."

The disclosures come amid speculation that the Boston Archdiocese may declare bankruptcy because so many abuse cases are pending against it. The revelations were mandated by court order as part of a series of civil suits brought by sexual abuse victims and their families

And your point is??????  None of those reports have anything to do with my Church???

2 Nephi 28

14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!

Salam Alaikoam

It is true there have been grievious horrors in the name of Religion or those pretending they know what Allah wants.

The task is to educate, train, counsel and consult the people, not just some but all of the people to root out ignorance once and for all.

Though it is true some people use ignorance as their excuse hopefully that is short lived.

If you go by the belief that Islam is an ancient way of life and means submission to the will of Allah, God, the Creator then that means we are all Muslims regardless of what religion we do or do not belong to.

Saying this means that Muslims from all walks of life have been good some of the time and they have been not so good some of the time.

Unfortunately many people have suffered because of ignorance and power hungry people.

We need education and training in good comminications skills, how to establish and keep healthy boundaries, effective conflict resolution skills, parenting skills, training in how to cope with frustrations of every kind and education in the stages and levels of sexual frustration so people know how to cope with these challenges when they arrive.

Wearing or not wearing clothing is not really an issue because we have seen here in the west that it does not matter what you wear people here will respect you. 

There is hope....

Bismillah,

Brothers Arah and Salman, I beseech you to stop blaming the victims of violence for crimes against them.  You hate the devils that do this, but by blaming the victims, you are deserting them alone, beaten and broken unaccepted by society.  Please stop it.

To anyone this has ever happened to:  I don't blame you.  Allah, SWT, doesn't blame you.  You have value.  You are important and will be important always.  Your heart and spirit and body have been violated, beaten, and yet raise your eyes up and see that you are pure in front of our Loving Lord.  If foolish people cast you out, our Vengeful Lord will cast them out, for He hates oppressors.

Peace

W/salam to amlhabibi2000
I quote your word: Wearing or not wearing clothing is not really an issue because we have seen here in the west that it does not matter what you wear people here will respect you. 

Response:

The University of Michigan released a study to show widespread abuse and harassment of Arabs and Muslims in America. From the http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21888-2004Jul28.html?nav%3Drss_nation - Washington Post :

Derogatory comments -- "Go back where you came from!" or "Ooh, are you a member of al Qaeda?" -- were the most common form of abuse. Others alleged job discrimination and a small number reported physical assaults, researchers said.

Forty-two percent of Muslim Arabs interviewed for the survey in Detroit -- an area with one of the largest concentrations of Arab Americans in the nation -- feel their religion is not respected by mainstream society. Nearly 60 percent said they worry more about their families' future than before the attacks.

WASHINGTON The State Department's fifth Annual Report on International Religious Freedom, released on Dec. 18, shows a frightening increase in anti-Muslim attitudes in several European countries, including some of America's strongest allies. The report cites the growth of Europe's Muslim immigrant population as the most common reason for anti-Muslim tensions in that particular region.

In Britain, where 1.6 million Muslims live, a London-based Islamic human rights group reported 344 incidents of anti-Muslim violence against Muslims in the year after Sept. 11, 2001, including the stabbing of a Muslim woman.

Since June 2002, British Muslims have reported assaults, acts of vandalism and attacks on mosques, some motivated by negative and irresponsible media coverage. In June 2003, for example, anti-Muslim remarks were drawn on walls at the Birmingham's Central Mosque shortly after the airing of a fictional BBC television program showing the recruitment of suicide bombers in a Birmingham mosque.

In Italy, home to about a million Muslims, several political and religious leaders, including Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, have contributed to anti-Islamic sentiment by portraying Muslim immigrants as a "threat" to Italy and by claiming that Muslims were unable to integrate with the rest of society.

In September 2001, Berlusconi fueled the anti-Islamic movement by describing Islamic civilization as inferior to the West. At a news conference in Berlin, he said, "We must be aware of the superiority of our civilization, a system that has guaranteed well-being, respect for human rights - and in contrast with Islamic countries - respect for religious and political rights, a system that has as its values understandings of diversity and tolerance." Berlusconi's remarks angered Muslims all over the world and were denounced by several Western leaders.

According to the U.S. report, state restriction of religious freedom is the second key cause for anti-Muslim discrimination in Europe.

On Dec. 18, John Hanford, the U.S. ambassador for international religious freedom, criticized France for its stance on the issue of Muslim women wearing of head scarves and affirmed his belief that Muslim women should be able to wear head scarves to fulfill their religious duties. "All persons should be able to practice their religion and their beliefs peacefully without government interference, as long as they are doing so without provocation and intimidation of others in society," he said, adding, "We're going to watch this carefully."

The debate over religious symbols, especially Muslim head scarves, has intensified in France since President Jacques Chirac proposed on Dec. 18 a law to ban religious symbols in French public schools and to regulate them in the workplace.

Muslims constitute the second largest French religious faction in number, with roughly four million to five million adherents, or about 7 percent to 8 percent of the French population.

Another head scarf debate erupted in Germany in June 2002 after an administrative court upheld a 1998 ban in the southern state of Baden-W�rttemburg on Muslim teachers wearing head scarves in the classroom.

In July 2002, the Federal Administrative Court supported the lower court's ruling. A Muslim teacher affected by the ruling appealed the decision to the Federal Constitutional Court, which held its first review of the case in May, the first time the country's highest court has examined this issue. A decision is expected soon. In the meantime, Muslim students remain free to wear head scarves in the classroom. There are about three million Muslims living in Germany.

In Spain, Muslims, Jews, and Protestants complained that the government favors Catholicism, the dominant religion, in political relationships and financial support.

"Leaders of the Protestant, Muslim, and Jewish communities," the State Department reported, "continue to press the government for comparable privileges to those enjoyed by the Catholic Church."

herjihad wrote: Bismillah, Brothers Arah and Salman, I beseech you to stop blaming the victims of violence for crimes against them.  You hate the devils that do this, but by blaming the victims, you are deserting them alone, beaten and broken unaccepted by society.  Please stop it. To anyone this has ever happened to:  I don't blame you.  Allah, SWT, doesn't blame you.  You have value.  You are important and will be important always.  Your heart and spirit and body have been violated, beaten, and yet raise your eyes up and see that you are pure in front of our Loving Lord.  If foolish people cast you out, our Vengeful Lord will cast them out, for He hates oppressors. Peace

My response:

I am not condoning the rapists. In fact I hate those rapists as much as you do. The rapists should be punished severely that will discourages other potential rapists from raping women. There are many motives behind the rapes but I am very sympathetic to the victims of rapes because I understand the trauma faced by the victims. I wish I could protect all the women. May I suggest that women should wear decent clothes to prevent rape?

Please don't accuse me of condoning the rapists. I HATE RAPISTS!

The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men: 

 Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested."

Both of the above Quranic references instruct the Muslim woman to cover herself with a large, loose overcoat (jilbab) and full head covering (khimar) so that no provocative part of her body will be visible. Her modest appearance would MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT SHE IS A CHASTE, BELIEVING WOMAN, and no one is to molest her or sexually exploit her.

AbRah2006 wrote: herjihad wrote: Bismillah, Brothers Arah and Salman, I beseech you to stop blaming the victims of violence for crimes against them.  You hate the devils that do this, but by blaming the victims, you are deserting them alone, beaten and broken unaccepted by society.  Please stop it. To anyone this has ever happened to:  I don't blame you.  Allah, SWT, doesn't blame you.  You have value.  You are important and will be important always.  Your heart and spirit and body have been violated, beaten, and yet raise your eyes up and see that you are pure in front of our Loving Lord.  If foolish people cast you out, our Vengeful Lord will cast them out, for He hates oppressors. Peace My response: I am not condoning the rapists. In fact I hate those rapists as much as you do. The rapists should be punished severely that will discourages other potential rapists from raping women. There are many motives behind the rapes but I am very sympathetic to the victims of rapes because I understand the trauma faced by the victims. I wish I could protect all the women. May I suggest that women should wear decent clothes to prevent rape? Please don't accuse me of condoning the rapists. I HATE RAPISTS! The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men:   Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested." Both of the above Quranic references instruct the Muslim woman to cover herself with a large, loose overcoat (jilbab) and full head covering (khimar) so that no provocative part of her body will be visible. Her modest appearance would MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT SHE IS A CHASTE, BELIEVING WOMAN, and no one is to molest her or sexually exploit her.

sister herjihad, my response is the same to you, same as what abrah said.

AbRah2006 wrote: I am very sympathetic to the victims of rapes because I understand the trauma faced by the victims. I wish I could protect all the women. May I suggest that women should wear decent clothes to prevent rape?

If you are sympathetic and understand the trauma, then should know that clothing doesn not matter, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU WEAR!!!!!!! YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT BEENING READING PROPERLY!!

AND I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS that women should would decent clothes to prevent rape it does not. it does not  it does not  it does not.

Being fully clothed can leave men with ideas of what is underneath and create lustful desires, dressing modestly or decent clothes as you say abrah DOESN"T protect you.

You need to get that stuck in your mind. 

Being without much clothes on, leaves NOTHING to the imagination, your body is on show, when you see the same thing everyday you lose interest, its boring. 

herjihad wrote: Bismillah, Brothers Arah and Salman, I beseech you to stop blaming the victims of violence for crimes against them.  You hate the devils that do this, but by blaming the victims, you are deserting them alone, beaten and broken unaccepted by society.  Please stop it. To anyone this has ever happened to:  I don't blame you.  Allah, SWT, doesn't blame you.  You have value.  You are important and will be important always.  Your heart and spirit and body have been violated, beaten, and yet raise your eyes up and see that you are pure in front of our Loving Lord.  If foolish people cast you out, our Vengeful Lord will cast them out, for He hates oppressors. Peace

Angela

Mishmish

I second everything you have said, so i really don't have to say anything  this topic comes up every now and then, and i have said practically the same things and i think in 4 and half years i haven't been involved. I remember in the earlier years, muslim women here (they're not anymore) were the same as the men in this thread notably Abrah and Salman. But it is refreshing to see that a few muslim women are doing what i have been doing.  

But as i have said also, there a few women (and i am not talk about all, so you men here can get of that high horse and stay away from it to use it as an excuse to push the blame on women because it is not!!!) there are a few women, that do ask for it in the way they dress. And there a few women who do rape men and they too are a victim they never asked for it, it is just that its not as forthcoming as women in reports.

Arah Salam Alaikoam

In my city we have not seen this kind of behavior or if it has happened it is very limited.

I would apologize for them but they have to do that themselves.

Education, Training, Counseling and Consultation is the only way things will get better in my view.

Anne Marie

By the way rape occurs regardless of what people are wearing and what about the rape and molestation of children and children and young adults, boys and girls being forced into prostitution?

Again this will only stop as we have more accessible Education, training, counseling and consultation in our communities so no one falls through the cracks and is left to become an abuser or purpatratrator.

Everyone is that valueable that no stone should be left un turned to assist them/us we being the best we can be.

We are Messengers after all and our Message should be one of grace and dignity for all.

We are care givers and gaurdians and we need the tools to be the best we can be.

Anne Marie

You can ask a behavioral researcher why men rape and he says they just get turned on by the wrong stimuli!

But what is the 'right and wrong stimuli? This is like I as a woman can guess what may 'turn on a man'. For instance, I could walk a funny way for one man, or I could have blue eyes, or I resemble their mother who he hates. How do you say what is 'wrong stimuli?' Being turned on by nudity does not = violence. If it were a bout sex you could just go to a prostitute and pay for the sex.  Sex is free all over. You can go to a bar, pick someone up and have sex. But to violate a person against their will is a different matter.

The sad case of the dress code here in the west is a separate issue than the rape of women.

Considering that in Moslem countries they do not really keep statistics of rape it is difficult to gauge what is what. Because of the culture, women are not going to admit to being raped for the backlash against them would be strong. Hayfa

You are very correct in your statement many rapes and cases of Incest are not reported for fear of backlash against women and there are many women in prisons because they were raped and men used false witnesses to say they went willingly.

There is a great deal of work to be done in the world and it can and must be done to Educate, Train, Counsel and Consult everyone on how to be a better person and forgive past injustices.

Education, Counseling and Consultation are key for these are true justice at least in my view possibly with a period away from society if need be but a better prison system than what is in place in many countries now were people recieve no Education and Counseling or are consulted in ways to prevent such behavior.

The way a person dresses is no excuse for bad behavior.