Welcome Lamplighter,

Before someone explains to you, could you please let us know what those terms mean to you and precisely what would you like to know. Those are huge subjects and most of us may not have the time.

BMZ

Sharia is supposed to be the Law Allah gave, however I do not believe Allah would ask anyone to beat, stone, hang, torture, maim anyone it just does not make sense.

Jesus forbade people stoning anyone and said He who is without sin caste the first stone.  He implied we should forgive the sins of others that we be forgiven.

One has to understand the time the laws were created and in todays world stoning anyone one is not true justivce Education, Counseling and Consultation are.

When it comes to issues of cutting off a hand again in todays world true justice is Education, Counseling and Consultation that is why we need an Inter Faith Education, Counseling and Consultation Jihad to turn some out dated laws into true justice.

I have a beef with Sharia law because Allah also says it is best to forgive.

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

amlhabibi2000 wrote:   Sharia is supposed to be the Law Allah gave, however I do not believe Allah would ask anyone to beat, stone, hang, torture, maim anyone it just does not make sense. Have you ever met parents of a seven or ten years old who is been raped or thier kid is brutaly murdered? I dont think so. I hear news about disgust of parents who find out that murderer of thier kid is coming out of jail within 4-5 years. Allah swt makes laws which are recompense for the action. If something that dont make sense to you, it does not necessarily make it non sense. As a human we are given a limited sight and knowledge. We at the moment cant even make complete sense of our mind and intelligence. So how do you think we can comprehend the wisdom of Allah swt in every thing. Saying that these few examples are very easy to make sense of, if you really want to try. Jesus forbade people stoning anyone and said He who is without sin caste the first stone.  He implied we should forgive the sins of others that we be forgiven. Well inshaAllah i will look into this as i am not sure whether their was stoning ordered by Isa (as) or not. One has to understand the time the laws were created and in todays world stoning anyone one is not true justivce Education, Counseling and Consultation are. Allah swt's laws are for every time, the things which He knew would change in time, He left a loophole in them to be changed with time. When it comes to issues of cutting off a hand again in todays world true justice is Education, Counseling and Consultation that is why we need an Inter Faith Education, Counseling and Consultation Jihad to turn some out dated laws into true justice. I have a beef with Sharia law because Allah also says it is best to forgive. Yeah its best to forgive as Allah swt would look at those who forgave in the life of this world and forgive those people as He is Most High and Mighty. But these laws are made to keep every thing in order by the One who is Knower of everything. I am sure i dont need to go over where socieities in west have gone. Being too proud of their human judgments have left them with broken homes, teenage single parents and shooting incidents in schools.

wassalam

Yes Sister these same laws create some men that use and abuse women and children.  That is why Education, Counseling and Consultation is true justice and that is why we need an Education, Counseling and Consultation Jihad of which the most important first level is the jihad or struggle with self ie learning to submit to the will of Allah and be a good person.

I am glad you said there is a loop hole for change and progress.

I have seen many men all Muslims (I believe all Mankind are Muslims and indeed all creation is Islam) who because of ignorance use their power to oppress women and children.

If people are educated and taught how to deal with life situations maybe they might make better choices therefore training in commincations skills is key.

I have seen many incendents where innocent women are stoned because false witnesses were brought forward all because they refused to have sexual relations with a man outside of wed lock.

Rather than kill these women they should be educated and trained to deal with their emotions and so should the men.

In the west there is a great deal of sex and relationship education in the scholls now more than before and progress is being made.

It use to be if a young women got pregnant she was caste out of the family and made to give her child for adoption never to see or hear from them again.  That caused a great deal of harm.

It use to be that many women had illegal abortions and progress has been made there are still abortions but at least they are safe. 

Now a young woman can keep her baby and the community will help her while she gets her education.

It use to be there was no where for abused women or children to go and now there are womens shelters.

It use to be that there was no place for homeless people to go and now there are shelters and agencies trying to help them get off the street.

It use to be that Mentally ill people had to be locked up in a hospital and now they have their own apartments, jobs and families.

It use to be in many countries that baby girls were left to die or sacrificed to Gods.

It use to be that Mentally ill people were thought to have demons inside them and they were wiped, tortured, abused and beaten and in some cases chained to walls.

It use to be that people died of diabetes and other deases and now we can extend their life if not improve it.

The west has challenges too but progress is being made that is why we need an Education, Counseling and Consultation jihad.

There is hope Sister we are that hope.

Allah never created or breathed of His spirit into any that did not have value or purpose.

Thank you for sharing your views and information.

Anne Marie

This is the time of a great sorting out into groups, Surah 99, 1-8 to see what was wrong and what is right and learn new skills for coping with lifes many challenges as we learn to submit to the will of Allah.

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

One big clarification, i dint say there is loophole for every law. What i said was that through His complete knowledge Allah knew that there might be a change needed with time in few things and He left space for alteration in those matters. There is no change in the matter of stoning or life sentence for a murder (unless relatives want to forgive), or the cutting hand.

I am sorry if i sound bad but it makes me laugh reading over and over again about how 'poorly' muslim women are treated. Couple of guys came to our islamic stall in uni some time ago and raised the same issue. They thoght its very oppressive that we have to cover head to toe. You know what i think is oppressive and down right offensive and insulting, is the fact that you have to be hot and sexy to find a life partner. That you have to spend hundred of pounds on beauty products and hours and hours infront of mirror. That you have to loose your virginity in your teen years just to keep your boyfriend happy. That you have to keep on a watch every time a girl with shorter clothes and hotter body comes round.

If i want i can rant for hours and hours but i dont want to do that. Because i know there are decent people in these societies. Same way majority of muslim men are politest people you would see. My dad use to sit in his mums feet out of respect. In night time he goes down stairs to fetch mum water as she got problems with her muscles. He learned to do massages because my mum needed physiotherapy for normal life.

These incident might be happening but its like any other crime in west. Power goes into those people's head and they missuse the laws of Allah swt. It does not mean that those laws are faulty. Majority of women in east are in really good state. So please save your concerns for where its needed. Those liberties we were given 1400 years ago. Women had a share in property, were allowed to have her own business, they were made judges, teachers and medics.

I totally agree with you that education is needed. Yes we need to educate people and tell them about reality of islam. Actually if some1 is really sincere throwing accusations and dishing dirt would be the last thing.

wassalam

Sister Fatima

You made some excellent points and it is very true one can find people with bad behavior everywhere.

Bad behavior is not a matter of culture or religion as it is found among the lowest educated and the highest however I believe there is hope.

I think it is sad that other remedies from wrong doing cannot be found that are more humain and effective that violent punishment.

Salam

Anne Marie

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Sister if you call Allah swt your Lord then you have to have faith that punishments ordained by Him are best for the soul. Now i am seriously asking you if you have ever met mother of a little kid who was murdered. I have seen mother of a kid who was killed in a road accident because the driver was on the phone and speeding. He dint do it on purpose but still he killed some1 due to his carelessness. After he was given punishment for 7 years, this lady cried on air. She said what sort of justice is this? This was not an intentional murder but there were demonstrations for severe punishment. Now think of people whose loved ones get brutaly murdered with a motive. This religion of ours is the essence of human nature. Allah swt left both options open for people to choose. If you have compassionate heart then forgive but there is option of punishment as well. People who lose a part of themselves through their kids find it very hard to forgive majority of times.

Now second rule of cutting hands, countries of middle east have lowest burglery record. Almost every1 who has come back from dubai praises this law as they know that if they loose something on the way one day, they going to find it as no one dares to pick some1 else's stuff. Islam makes sure that every body's belonging are safe. Cutting hand is not easy option for authority either, in it is a test for both common folk and governing bodies. Any body whose hand is cut get support from govt for basics of life.

Lastly stoning, Allah swt knows through His complete knowledge that even a slightest lineancy in this could damage the whole society. Due to this homes are destroyed, kids dont have proper bringing up, psychlogical problems arise, drugs, violence and all that is some what direct or indirect result of bad childhood.

I am sure support, shelter homes and every thing like that might seems to be helping on the surface. But its like trying to cure juandice of a cancer patient and ignoring the root cause of it.

Sister obedience to the laws of Allah swt is His right. There is a reason and greater wisdom behind every single matter. Us humans have a limited knowledge and sight, when Allah swt ordered those matter, He knew that one wrong leads to next and eventually to a total chaos in society.

Its also strange that we find it in our heart, love, compassion and respect for our fellow human beings and their decisions but not for The Most Compassionate.

wassalam

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Lamplighter wrote: Dear BMZ, Nasakh or abrogation to me is the change of a verse in Quran or Hadiths by the new and better verse. What I want to know is, if the Sunni and The Shia believes in abrogation,  or not, or do they believe, only different perception in which verses are abrogated. I think every1 believes in nasakh, Sharia is Islamic Legal System and the application is Fiqh. That's my understanding. It is based on Quran, Hadiths, Tafseer, and other Islamic sources. Care to explain more that I asked? Sharia' laws are only based on Quran and Hadith. If a matter is not found in there then the decisions made by khulfae rashideen, and sahabah count. In later generations ijtihad was made about such matters which could not be found otherwise. Now if all the scholars of ummah or majority of them agree to this decision reached by mujtahid then its an ijma'. And there are narrations which suggest that through Allah swt's blessing, there can never be a wrong ijma' in the ummah. So a rule on which there is an ijma can not be changed either. Now if a later generation mujtahid thinks that first ijtihad on which there was no ijma' was wrong, he can bring up another decesion which is more suitable to time and situation. But saying that it is always said that ijtihad and mujtahid of earlier generation have superemacy over later generation. Hope it anwers your query. Lamp Lighter

wassalam

Alaikoam Salam

In Allah's wisdom He has also inspired Mankind to make progress in Education, Technology, Medicine and even the Laws take the Human Rights Act surely this is from Allah as I can see no other source from which it could come.

Laws and the way we deal with offenders must change and be juste or further injustice will happen because violence usually begets violence.

To exterminate the cause of a crime does not mean the problem is solved because underneath in our societies there are root causes for behavior and this behavior will not be changed by cutting off hands, stoning people, hanging them or putting them to death by other means this is not justice.

This is why we need an Inter Faith Call to Education, Counseling and Consultation so that people who are or feel they are on the fringe may be called to the shareholders table and seek solutions to the issues together as One Family, As One Nation.

By drawing people into the community network and having them access community supports and infra structures they will recieve guidance and support as they work on changing unhealthy or problematic behaviors into good ones.

Justice which uses acts of violence to correct behaviors only pushes the issues under ground and these ungraound or hidden issues cause many problems for people when left untreated by proffessionals.

We expect people in todays world not to act like cave men an eye for an eye but like people in the 21st century and give good justice which is Education, Counseling and Consultation.

Salam

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

amlhabibi2000 wrote:   Sharia is supposed to be the Law Allah gave, however I do not believe Allah would ask anyone to beat, stone, hang, torture, maim anyone it just does not make sense.

You are welcome to your opinions. But opinions and conjecture are meaningless. What makes no sense is you attempt to assert your personal feelings onto Gd.

aml wrote: Jesus forbade people stoning anyone and said He who is without sin caste the first stone.  He implied we should forgive the sins of others that we be forgiven.

The Quran nor the reliable hadith have such a teaching. You cannot use the bible to derive religous law.

Furthermore, the NT account of this story is placed in great doubt given that this event seems to have suddenly appeared in "later" manuscripts, but seems to be missing from the earlier ones. This story is a later addition.

aml wrote: One has to understand the time the laws were created and in todays world stoning anyone one is not true justivce Education, Counseling and Consultation are.

aml, you are simply ignorant. Ignorant in every way; theologically, religously, and non-religously.

You are a part of a "cult" like group, this is obvious due to your continued "programmed" responses...."education counseling consultation". It has become the foundational "mantra" for the entire volume of convoluted nonsense you put here on this forum. 

If you are willing to override Gd with your "mantra", then this sums up your complete and utter ignorance and twisted understanding of Islam, theology, and the world.

aml wrote: When it comes to issues of cutting off a hand again in todays world true justice is Education, Counseling and Consultation that is why we need an Inter Faith Education, Counseling and Consultation Jihad to turn some out dated laws into true justice.

This is your programmed response, once again. You are too convoluted to even have a rational discussion at even a crude level.

aml wrote: I have a beef with Sharia law because Allah also says it is best to forgive.

And yet another senseless, and nonsensical assumption.

Alaikoam salam Andalus

I belong to no cult and yes I believe true justice is education, Counseling and consultation sounds like it could help you too.

I am after all like most Muslims still learning how I want to express my Islam.

I think many people are ignorant to what true justice really is including you possibly.

I added some Hadeath to my post before yours that sheds light to the merciful nature of Allah.

We are free to do so.

Judge not that you may not be judged.

As a moderator I am surprised you are allowed to be so arogant as to put someone down for their beliefs.  Seems honey attracts bees better than bee stings hum

Sister Anne Marie

ALEH wrote: Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) relating from his Lord, the Exalted and Glorious, said: A servant committed a sin and he said: O Allah, forgive me, and Allah, the Exalted and High said: My servant committed a sin and then he came to realize that he has a Lord Who forgives the sins and takes to account (the sinner) for the sin. He then again committed a sin and said: My Lord, forgive me, and Allah, the Exalted and High, said: My servant committed a sin and then came to realize that he has a Lord Who would forgive his sin or would take (him) to account for the sin. He again committed a sin and said: My Lord, forgive me, and Allah, the Exalted and High said: My servant has committed a sin and then came to realize that he has a Lord Who forgives sins or takes (him) to account for his sin. O servant, do what you like. I have granted you forgiveness, \ 'Abdul-'Ala' \ is not certain whether he said: Do what you like in the third or the fourth time. http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Hierarchy.asp?Src=1&AlmiaNum=4952 - Hadith number in Sahih Muslim [Arabic only]: 4953   Islam is not ment to be a religion or a way of life that condone slaughter when remediation may be done and the bad behavior corrected thus saving a soul, family, community and Nation and World.

I cannot, for the life of me, find any point in this?

What are you trying to show? What point are you trying to make? WHat are you trying to prove?

WHo said Islam agrees with slaughtering?

The Quran perscribes the punishment of taking off the hand for theft.

The Sunnah prescribes the stoning of adulterers.

The hadith you keep pasting do not invalidate these items. You can babble on and on and on with hiadths you like, but in the end, you have not made a single point.

There is great hope and it is in Islam a peaceful loving Islam not an Islam of violence, ignorance or apathy.

You are rambling again. What are you talking about? This is more of yoru usual mantra that has been programmed into you by your cult.

Inshallah there will be a great sorting out into resolution and skills training groups to learn the skills we need to be loving, caring compassionate people, all Muslims everyone at their roots.

What the heck does this mean? Seriously? What are you babbling about now? Look, you have some really "cooky" ideas, 99% of which does not make sense on any basic level. Have you looked into other faiths like Bahai or Enkankar? Mabe the practice of yoga? Instead of trying to rip apart, and molest my beautiful faith with your ignorance and far out "left field" opinions, why not pick a faith or "spirtual path" where your more eccentric ideas will be well recieved by others just like yourself. If not, then why not actually learn Islam, instead of superimposing your opinions onto it, and pretending you are able to speak for it?

A religion should inspire hope not fear. Hope open the doors to the soul and inspires people that they can and do make a difference and that our voice counts in this world and the here after. It would indeed be a blessing if technical Muslims everywhere said salam alaikoam to all whom they meet as I said we are all Muslims, all 10 Billion and counting and inshallah we will all enjoin together on this Inter Faith Education, Counseling and Consultation Jihad of which the first and most important level is working on being the best person we can be and inspire others to be their best too. Salam Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

It is all the same with you. All of your responses. Identical in absurdity, incoherence, and your "mantras".

Alaikoam salam of course brother you are intitled to your opinion.

I belong to no cult unless you are calling Islam a cult.

A hundred years ago they use to think lead was a medicine now we understand it is a poison.

My point in a nut shell is we will get further with positive encouragements Like access to education so people can support them/ourselves with grace and dignity for everyone concerned.

We will get further by offering access to counseling where people may learn the skills of being a good partner/husband wife/person with agencies set up to deal with particular issues like family violence, parenting issues, communications and conflict resolution issues.

We will get further vy calling all the share holders sort out into groups to the share holders table to consult on what infra structures and supports we need in the community as well as affordable access to proffessionals for consulting on our issues such as medical problems, housing problems, financial problems.

Using violence as punishment does nothing but drive the problem under ground, under the surface and it purculates likes a boil on the skin ready to break at any time but if medication, treatments such as education, counseling and consultation are employed drawing the person into the light and at a point they will ask for help is the first step to real world peace brother.

The time has come for a change whether you accept it or not some of the laws are like lead a poison rather than a remedy.  This of course is my opinion.

Again I do not belong to a cult I very much belong to the body and being of Islam.

I am of course still learning what Islam means to me and how I want to express my Islam ie my submission to the will of Allah.

You made your points and points well taken however we all have the freedom to believe as we will including you.

The Islam I believe in does not use violence as punishment but as I said Education, Counseling and Consultation as elements of true justice inshallah may it be so.

Salam

Your Sister in Faith

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

The name of the Islam I belong to is El Hayat Islam

We have a higer station than the beasts in the field as as we both know they can be tamed and so can we but it will take work with love and forgiveness to do so.  Inshallah a great sorting out into groups to see what we have done wrong and what we have done right and then a further sorting into groups to learn the skills we need to be the best person we can be and each of our striving in this Inter Faith Call to an Education, Counseling and Consultation Jihad is hope and a bright light for all.

There is hope and we are that hope.

You live in the United States so you come under the human rights act do you not?

Bismillah

a hundred years ago soodomy was a detested and punishable act in most societies in contrast to today's changes... don't be surprised if scientists will reconsider their scientific findings with regards to lead in another hundred years, the same way we use venum for some remedies today... wine was not prohibited during the time of 'Eesa (peace be upon him) and early times of Muhammad's (peace be upon him) prophethood... we don't just jumble up everything in accordance with our personal liking and disliking.

it is with objective of not having such confusion on fundamental aspects and purpose of our existence that the Prophets were sent with the Clear Message ... yet we are where we are now... too educated and erudite to agree with the rationale behind Allah's Commands...

if stoning is prescribed for certain crimes, then stoned should the criminals be (provided that their guilt is also proven accordingly), this is not violence, harrasment or hurt - this is punishment. Islam in the first place, encourages us to do good and avoid evil... if we follow this half, the subject of punishment will cease...   

Allah's Mercy dominates over His Anger. Execution of the criminal is not about mercy or anger, it is about Justice. Theredfore we  must not mend rules and instructions as we deeem to be logical especially when Allah has clearly communicated them through the Qur'an and through the Final Messenger, Muhammad, may Allah's peace be upon him.

Alaikoam Salam

A very thoughtful response.

I guess the issue is how we understand Islam and I guess my understanding is a little bit to the future and may beyond this time and place I still believe as I do.

Indeed Mohammed PBUH brought a great book and hadeath however it is in my opinion not the last book as in my opinion Allah reveals in revealations many things to us everyday thus making it a living revealation without end.

Nor in my opinion was He PBUH the last Messenger for in my opinion I believe we are all Messengers and that is why excellence in Education, Counseling and Consultation are so important so that we all may bring a good Message to the world and let our lives be a Message as well.

We are the Messiah, the Prophets, the Manifestations of God and People of Spirit a Living Messiah in the Multitudes not one of us but all of us. We are all Messengers of God and we are all equally responsible according to our ability to care for each other and the world.

My opinion of course.

Salam

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

Bismillah

There is no deity worthy of worship other than Allah, and Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last Messenger of Allah.

Indeed Allah is the only one however I believe we each are Messengers in a variety of ways and each just as important to the whole of creation as the other.

Salam

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

amah wrote: Assalaamualaikum Execution of the criminal is not about mercy or anger, it is about Justice. Well said brother Mockba.   Sister Anne, Iam really surprised at your interpretation of Islam. Will you kindly tell me on what basis you believe in all of this: "Nor in my opinion was He PBUH the last Messenger" "my understanding is a little bit to the future" "not the last book (quran)" "We are all Messengers of God" Also do you believe in the ayahs of Quran and in the hadith which talk about punishments? Do you believe in Hell??? Thank You. Wassalaam.

I believe those ayahs were brought at a particular time in history for a particular group of people and now in todays world we need preventive laws rather than punishment because underneath the bad behavior is usually pycological suffering or neglect from childhood and young adulthood that causes the behavior to arise.  We should give every person the chance to be their best not crush them when they fall.

I believe hell can be found in this life if we do bad things or if others do bad things or the environment does bad things maybe there is a hell in the after life I am not really sure of that but what I am sure of is that the are many rooms in the House of Allah and He will prepare one for each of us.

Salam

Anne Marie 

To exterminate the cause of a crime does not mean the problem is solved because underneath in our societies there are root causes for behavior and this behavior will not be changed by cutting off hands, stoning people, hanging them or putting them to death by other means this is not justice.

Yes there is a root cause.. that may or not be able to be fixed. Take for instance, pedophiles. They go through all the �counseling� you want and they will do it again and again.  All of us, if we are able to admit it, can do bad things. None of us are perfect.  Look at how humanity  behaves over and over.. all over the world. The destruction of each other, the environment and this planet.  It is about justice it is also not letting them amok. Then I am being passive.

I think humanity actually has a great capacity for goodness but we are so, so forgetful. We do not think about our acts, our actions. We go about our lives mindlessly at times.  If we had not lost touch with Allh, our inner-selves and our purpose we may be all better off as living beings on this planet.

The thing is people ARE lost. They have lost the ability to live in this world with decency and respect.  Yes we should all treat each person well. And at times, it is necessary to do what is best for the majority of the people. Otherwise we are held captive by the bad elements of the society. It is great to think of mercy upon people. But what about society as a collective whole?

If people are quite capable of doing heinous and terrible acts what is actually best for society as well as them? Let them wallowing in a prison for life is one answer.  Or actually can death be more humane?

We tend to have a lot of compassion for those for whom may have to pay the punishment.. But why? We tug at the heart strings. Recently another woman was set on fire by her boyfriend. He poured gasoline on her and set her on fire. She will have the struggle all of her life living with burns and scars all over her face and arms. Burns are terrible to live with. Very, very painful, never mind the expense of the medical care. She should have justice.   

Compassion is good. But that is up to the individuals. For some reason, beyond our understanding, people can lack this. They can kill, main, and hurt others. They should be stopped.

The average rapist will rape many times before being caught.. imagine all those that could be prevented? Forget counseling.. that is nice and does little. Some people are so dysfunctional it is not fair to spend our limited resources on this.

One thing that I have noticed about Islam is that structure and organization are very important. I remember before I became a Moslem in one of my numerous talks with my friend about Islam. I asked him about the structure. The case being the need for separate women and men�s spaces.  I said, I have no interest in these men, nor do I engage in unhealthy behavior. I have no trouble being in mixed gender spaces. He said that the rules are for the majority who are �weaker� or need more structure. And he is right. Yes it makes it harder if we need a particular guideline to help me. But others do. As we know psychologically, some people have less ability to be able to think of the consequences. So they do drugs, sleep around etc. (Not even the after-life consequences, but what can happen in this life.) Those people need the structure.  Strong rules and discipline are sometimes needed.

I used to have a harder time understanding and feeling comfortable with the supposed �rigidness� of Islam. And yet the more you see and process the more things seems so much more logical.  In fact cutting off someone�s hand, it could be argued, is more merciful then letting them continuing their bad ways.

Alaikoam Salam

Brothers and Sisters as I mentioned we have to get at the roots of crime and prevent it from happening in the first place.

In the Islam I belong to there are corrective measures not punishments of violence or degredation.

We have a higher station than animals and we should behave in a higher manner than seeking vengence.

As for predophiles they are treatable but it takes time and the most important issue is prevention of such a condition from developing.

I guess my understanding and belief in Islam is a little beyond yours and that is okay, everyone has a right to express Islam ie submission to the will of Allah in thier way.

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

You know what sister i thought i would politely ask you to rethink cos maybe you are unaware of some stuff. But please stop posting whatever you are because shaytan is helping you every step of your way. You call yourself a muslim and in the same breath you deny two basic concepts, the truthness of Holy Quran and the judgement day.

You saying that Holy Quran and Prophet Muhammad (saw) were for a specific time. Ok, if they were that means their message should be overdated and our time should have gone ahead in knowledge. Now i ask you two questions and you can ask medical research institutes if you want. But if you have any sincerity or comprehnsion you would know and realise the truth when it slaps you on the face. First Question is 'A new born baby why does he/she takes resemblance from mother or father', second Question, 'why do even identical twins have different finger prints'.

You are too proud of knowledge, understanding, judgement and God knows what of human being. If you really want to have human rule the world as they please. Why not think sensibly, who's is the rule normaly. The person who owns or runs the particular thing. The day you and your little human friends can themselves manage the gravity, or rain or the rising of the sun, shout out. I am sure Allah swt is far more Mighty and Just to not allow you to run your affairs. Honestly there is a limit to naivity and ignorance or is it just arrogance and stubborness to not accept the truth because it dont suite you?

wassalam

Alaikoam Salam

As far as I know technicallly there are some 137 sects of Islam, however if you believe as I do you also add into this the Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Siek and other religions into these sects as they are all expressions of the evolution of Islam and even those with no apperent reiligion still submit to the will of Allah in degrees making them Muslims too.

As for your question all is in the hands of Allah He guides whom He will to the right path though in todays world we need a little more effort in finding what the right path is for each of us.  The path I or you choose may not be right or suit another.  Of course everyone is free to choose as they will however a little help with an Inter Faith Call to an Education, Counseling and Consultation Jihad of which the most important level is the level of learning to be the best person we can be and inspire others to do so also.

I guess what I am trying to explain is that there are many ways to be a Muslim and submit to the will of Allah and there are many ways to express our Islam.

As for twins with unique finger prints that of course is in the hands of Allah.

We are free to explore what Islam means to us and we are free to express our Islam in our way.

There is hope sister and brothers and that hope begins with Islam, however some laws do need amending to raise us from the state of animals to a high station that of Gaurdian and Messenger not slayer or torturer that is not of Allah nor does it show His mercy it may have been acceptable 1500 to a 100 years ago but it is not acceptable in this day and age we can resolve our challenges without violence or abusing someone.

PS this is an Inter Faith Forum for everyone to express themselves and in my opinion examples of their Islam whether they be Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Seik etc all come under the Umbrella of Islam that does not mean that they will express their Islam the same way you do.

We have to accept everyone has a freedom and right to express their Islam in their way and inshallah may it be a good way and may we all be inspired to be good people and set aside anger and vengence for Peace and Prosperity for one and all thus turning us from a blood thirsty, blood letting society into one with grace and dignity for all, a society where people will not want to commit a crime because they have better skills to do more productive things with their time and thus express their Islam in a positive and caring manner inshallah may it be so..

Truth is all religions have their limitations otherwise by now one would think thwe world would be far better than it is, however at the same time yes some revision is needed.

By saying that religion needs revision does not neglect the importance it had, has in the world it just means that some laws need to be rewritten so that more people are likely to abide by them and if these laws are preventive and address the issues at the roots or foundations then progress will be made, laws that promote further abuse, torture or exicutions is not going to help us progress.

My opinion of course.

Salam

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

amah wrote: ALEH wrote:   Alaikoam Salam Brothers and Sisters as I mentioned we have to get at the roots of crime and prevent it from happening in the first place. In the Islam I belong to there are corrective measures not punishments of violence or degredation. We have a higher station than animals and we should behave in a higher manner than seeking vengence. As for predophiles they are treatable but it takes time and the most important issue is prevention of such a condition from developing. I guess my understanding and belief in Islam is a little beyond yours and that is okay, everyone has a right to express Islam ie submission to the will of Allah in thier way. Sister, Would you kindly reply to my last post??? I haven't asked rhetorical questions. Peace

Assalam Aleikum.

She will waste your time like no other. Just as the Quran only sects are master obfuscators, this person will never directly debate or discuss, and she is not here to learn, and will only assert her absurd, and dellusional opinions of our beautiful faith.

Rhetorical diatribe, and endless rants about love, consultation jihad, and other nonsensical incoherent diatribe is all you will get out of her. Peraphs the best way to deal with her is to ignore her completly, that way we do not legitimize her views, in her mind, as plausable. Thats all she is looking for: validation through someone trying to have a discussion with her about her loony rambelings.

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 857:

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 870:

Dear Lamplighter,

From you: " My conclusion for the questions that I ask is:
1) Sharia Legal System is based on Quran as the first source.
2) All moslem believe in the conception of Nasakh.

I need to confirm this because my friend said that the conception of Nasakh is only for Shiah's follower.

LL"

Item 1 from you is correct. Qur'aan is the first source.

Item 2: Not all Muslims believe in the conception of Nasakh. Qur'ann's topic of Naskh is clearly the abrogation of all past Scriptures.

Both the Shias and Sunnis have this separate topic of Nasikh wa Mansookh, which has nothing to do with the Nasakh of past Scriptures by Qur'aan.

In order to justify their own interpretations, the Shias claim that a certain verse has not been abrogated, while some Sunnis claim that the verse had been abrogated and was replaced by verse so and so and vice versa. This kind of Nasakh is purely based on the opinions of scholars from both sides. It has become a habit for both of them to make arguments and counter-arguments.

I would not like to go into this huge topic as the exchanges would be fruitless. The most important point is that if any verse in Qur'aan was really Nasakh, it would not have been there! People are debating on and discussing  verses which ARE still there in Qur'aan for more than 1400 plus years.

Hope this helped.

BMZ

Dear Lamplighter,

As I said earlier, it is a huge topic and the discussion can continue till the cows comeback home for days.

Let me give you an example by quoting the following verses. I am quoting from memory, hence no number of verse and chapter:

"Don't go near prayers, if you are drunk/intoxicated.", which simply means,"Do not pray, if you are drunk/intoxicated". However, no one can take this as an excuse not to pray and remain drunk.

Later comes the verse (I am interpreting here) telling that men think there is good in alcohols and gambling but they don't realise that there is more evil in them. Then the verse says,"Would you not then forbid?" Some translators write,"Would you not then desist?" or "Would not refrain from these?"

Now comes the Nasikh and the Mansukh:

Does it mean that I can drink and get intoxicated but I can pray later when I am back in my senses? Of course not. But it did last for sometime and stopped when the next verse was given.

The second verse that I quoted is clearly telling us to say,"Yes, Lord, I will not touch it and forbid it."

Here the scholars will say that the 1st, that I quoted above, became Mansookh and the 2nd, that I quoted,  is the Nasikh.

In English, I would simply say that the first was superceded by the second. There is really no abrogation of any verses. Commandments came gradually and Lord Almighty fine-tuned.

Hope this helped. Good questions & Thanks

BMZ