The Words of Jesus
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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6100
Printed Date: 23 November 2024 at 12:34pm
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Topic: The Words of Jesus
Posted By: Patty
Subject: The Words of Jesus
Date Posted: 26 July 2006 at 7:54pm
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I understand that Muslims believe Jesus was a great prophet. As such, it would seem to me that you also believe He spoke only the truth. However, in many posts there are contradictions made to His teachings. Can someone explain to me how you can revere Him as a great prophet, yet at the same time not believe all He has said or revealed through his apostles? God's Peace. ------------- Patty I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
Replies:
Posted By: B.H.
Date Posted: 26 July 2006 at 9:21pm
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Jesus was indeed a prophet but only what the Koran says about him and his teachings are accurate. The Bible that the Jews and Christians have contained the word of God, but has been corrupted by additions and subtractions over time. Not everything claimed by Christians that is found int the Bible is necessarily something Jesus actually said or did. For example, the Bible teaches that Jesus was divine. The Koran refutes this error, and on Judgement Day Jesus himself will rebuke those who worshipped him as divine and deny being deity. Also, Jesus was not crucified either but the evil one planning to have him murdered in this fashioned died in such a way. Jesus died and went to Paradise but has not been resurrected like the Bible claims. The Koran teaches that Jesus was born of a virgin--Mary, so this part is true. |
Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 2:58am
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In the name of Allah, Most
Gracious, Most Merciful Greetings Patty, Hope you are doing better now. I
am writing this with all due respect to you and your belief. It is an article of faith for every Muslim to believe in all the
Prophets of God and all revelations of God. As Muslims we believe what the Quran says and also believe what
the last Prophet (peace and blessings
of Allah be upon him) said. The Taurah, the Zaboor or the Injeel (Bible) may partly contain
the word of God but these books are certainly not the exact, accurate and
complete revelations given to the prophets. The Qur�an presents all the different prophets of Allah as
belonging to one single brotherhood; all had a similar prophetic mission and
the same basic message. The Qur�an says that the differences which exist between various
religions are not the responsibility of the prophets, but of the followers of
these prophets who forgot part of what they had been taught, and furthermore,
misinterpreted and changed the scriptures. All prophets were sent to a particular nation, except
Muhammad(pbuh), who was sent for all
mankind because he was the LAST prophet to be sent by Allah. If Jesus would
have been the last prophet then we would have followed the Bible today. But
always the teachings of all prophets were subject to deviations. Since Quran
was the last revelation, Allah promised to guard its authenticity till the day
of judgement. We respect Jesus (peace be upon him) as much as any other Prophet
but do not follow the Bible because we do not consider it �completely� authentic
like the Quran. There is nothing contradictory about it. It is not Jesus�
teachings that we disagree with, he taught what all the prophets taught. It is the misinterpretations and changes made to
all previous scriptures that keeps us away from them. This is our belief. Hope I have explained it ok! Take care. Peace. ------------- Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper). (Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45) |
Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 4:09am
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Thank you both for responding to my question! So I suppose at the bottom line, this is where faith comes in for all of us....the People of the Book. We either have faith that the Bible or the Qur'an is true; we have faith that God would not have sent His words only to be twisted and cause confusion.......or, we believe he did; and we then try to live our lives as we all know Allah/God would expect us to live. (Here is where we fail so miserably, don't you think?) Why do we fail to "love our neighbor as ourselves" so often and so badly? Do you believe it is because of our human nature? Peace be with you. ------------- Patty I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 4:17am
Masha Allah , well said, but I did not get this part right...you said Jesus died?? ------------- Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper). (Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45) |
B.H. wrote:Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 4:25am
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Patty, If we do not love our neighbour, it is our shortcoming. May Allah guide us to be better human beings.  Peace. ------------- Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper). (Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45) |
Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 4:25am
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Amah, maybe B.H. meant that Jesus "eventually" died and went to Paradise....not that he died on the cross. Just a guess from me. God's Peace. ------------- Patty I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
Posted By: B.H.
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 7:32am
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Amah,
Jesus himself said he would die in peace, though he did not die on the cross if I understand right.
One qoute from the Holy Quran is from Jesus himself found in 19:32-33. Another is found in 3:55, and comparing it with 19:32-33 I assume Allah took him by allowing him to die first. |
Posted By: DigitalStorm82
Date Posted: 29 July 2006 at 12:02am
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Peace and blessings to all I would like to make something clear to all... According to Islam, the Quran, Jesus didnt not die at all... He was raised up to the heavens ALIVE. It says in the Quran... They did not kill him, neither did they crucify him. Sister patty, Jesus indeed was a great prophet and performed many miracles with the permission of God. Jesus never claimed divinity even in the Bible... He said... "By myself I can do nothing: I judge only according to what I hear from the Father" Without God, he can do nothing... so how can he be God himself? If he can't do anything himself. Something else to ponder... Jesus was supposedly crucified on friday.. that is why its known as "Good Friday" In Gospel of John Ch.
20: V.1 FRIDAY NIGHT SATURDAY NIGHT & SATURDAY DAY In Gospel of Mathew Chapter 12: V. 39-40 Jesus said: You evil and adulterous generation, seek here for a sign, no sign shall be given to you but the sign of Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of whale so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Jonah was ALIVE (otherwise no miracle) in the belly of the whale... so for Jesus to fulfill his prophecy in Gospel of Mathew chapter 12 verse 39-40 Jesus should be alive in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights like Jonah. So, If Jesus was alive in the tomb... he fulfilled his prophecy of being alive... but he still never stayed in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights as the tomb was empty on sunday morning. So if Jesus was alive... that means he wasn't crucified... If, Jesus was dead in the tomb... he was UNLIKE JONAH ...he didn't fulfill his prophecy... He Lied? God Forbid... Jesus wasn't a liar. All of this is according to the bible... Muslims beleive that Jesus was raised up to the heaven before any of this... It was made to APPEAR that Jesus was crucified... This may be very confusing to you... if you have any questions please ask. And, I appologize if I have offended you or your beliefs... I'm just trying to show you something in your own beliefs. Maybe you can clear it up for me and yourself. Peace be with you. Hamid ------------- Ma'Salama, Hamid |
Posted By: B.H.
Date Posted: 29 July 2006 at 3:35pm
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According to Islam, the Quran, Jesus didnt not die at all... He was raised up to the heavens ALIVE. I am sorry but even the Koran qoutes Jesus as saying he will die. |
Posted By: DigitalStorm82
Date Posted: 29 July 2006 at 6:21pm
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He will die after he returns from the heaven... he will die after he lives out his life... he will die after he beats the anti-christ aka Dajjal. ------------- Ma'Salama, Hamid |
Posted By: ZEA J
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 2:11pm
can you qoute these suras for us please, B.H ------------- "You will never attain piety and righteousness,(and eventually paradise)until you spend of that which you love."(Al-Imran:92) |
Posted By: DigitalStorm82
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 9:44pm
Posted By: B.H.
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 10:10pm
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I have translations by Dawood and Ali. All three translate a qoute from Jesus saying that he would indeed die one day in 19:33--- Ali: "There was peace on me the day I was born,and will be the day that I die, and on the day I will be raised from the dead." Dawood: "I was blessed on the day I was born, and blessed I shall be on the day of my death, and may peace be upon me on the day when I shall be raised to life." Now, Chapter 3:55---
Ali: When God said:"O Jesus, I will take you to myself and exalt you, and rid you of the infidels, and hold those who follow you......" Dawood: He said: "Jesus, I am about to cause you to die and lift you up to me. I shall take you away from the unbelievers and exalt your followers..."
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Posted By: DigitalStorm82
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 10:48pm
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Asalamu Alaikum, Bro, I think you need to look at the translation of Yusuf Ali and Pickthall. Dawood translation clearly contradicts the Quran chapter 4 vs. 153. What does the Dawood translation say in Chapter 4 vs. 153? Yusuf Ali or Pickthall translations clearly says he was raised up to the heavens... In Dawood, his death comes out of nowhere... Jesus was raised up Alive, and there is so many hadith which suggest that... You should research a bit more... W'salaamz, Hamid ------------- Ma'Salama, Hamid |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 11:18pm
Whoa!!!! Does that mean we're off the hook? 
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Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 11:22pm
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Patty,
I live a stones throw away from Har Megido or as you call it Armegedon Should I be worried? |
Posted By: DigitalStorm82
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 11:49pm
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Mark 12:29 Jesus (Pbuh) also said: The first of all the commandments is hear, O Israel the Lord our God is one Lord. Whoever believes there is only One Lord... ONE GOD is a muslim... To become a muslim... you have to say There is no God but God... and Mohammad is his messenger. Jesus (Pbuh) was also a messenger like Mohammad (Pbuh)... also spreading the same message... your Lord is ONE LORD.. ONE GOD.... not trinity. You can't be a muslim without believing in Jesus (Pbuh) as a messenger of God. So, to get to your question... we are off the Hook... Not Exactly. Allah also said, no religion will be accepted except Islam... after Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). True believers of Jesus believed in One God. so, to be off the "hook" you'd have to follow that ONE GOD. May God show you the right path, Inshallah. Peace be upon you. Hamid ------------- Ma'Salama, Hamid |
Posted By: B.H.
Date Posted: 02 August 2006 at 12:23am
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I won't dispute the issue any further. I simply don't have the Arabic knowledge to make an honest and competant judgement on the issue right now. However, you will agree with me that Jesus is, if not already, going to die one day though won't you? |
Posted By: DigitalStorm82
Date Posted: 02 August 2006 at 12:30am
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Of course. He'll return to earth... kill the anti-christ.... live out his life as a muslim and eventually die... and will be Ressurrected on Judgement Day like everyone else. When I first started reading about the whole day of judgement bit... it was so interesting... I hope you find it interesting as I did... I couldn't stop reading once I started... Read up on Anti-Christ and Gog and Magog... and how Jesus will desend in Demuscus, Syria resting his arms on two angels... May Allah increase us all in Knowledge. W'salaamz Bro, Hamid ------------- Ma'Salama, Hamid |
Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 02 August 2006 at 3:56am
Assalamualaikum I agree with this. Brother B.H, Yes, Jesus (I prefer using the name "Eesa" Alayhissalaam ) will die. He has not tasted death yet, that is why he will return. Insha Allah. And he will follow the shariah of Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam. He will not return as a "prophet". Brother, do read the tafsir of the ayahs you mentioned, maybe they will be even more clear then. Allah knows best....wassalaam ------------- Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper). (Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45) |
Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 17 August 2006 at 5:48pm
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Not because of where you live, Daniel. I would love to live there! The only thing we/you need to worry about are your sins (if you have any....I know I have.) I wonder if Armegedon is far off? Only God knows. I don't know much about the Jewish religion. I know they didn't crucify Christ....the Roman soldiers did. I need to read more about your race/religion. After all, Jesus was a Jew wasn't he? Being an incurable romantic, I was once very much in love with a Jewish engineer........a lonnnnng time ago. He loved me, but my Mom felt he was too old for me. I was 18 and he was 27. I've always wondered what happened to him. The last I heard he was in California, but that was years ago. Listen to me babble will ya?? Sorry!!! ------------- Patty I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
Posted By: jacques4173
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 8:31pm
| The Bible has not been altered or changed in any way. And where is it stated anywhere that the Quaran is the final word? Because I would think that it would be in the Bible that there will be another word after it? Also how can you believe that Jesus and his prophecies are real but then say he may have forgotten everything that was told to him? How do you know for sure that Muhammed didn't forget what was told to him? I don't understand the Muslims way of thinking when it comes to the Bible and everytime I talk to someone about certain issues within the religion it's very contradictory. I'm really trying to be opened minded and get an understanding of this religion but it's extremely difficult. There are a lot of things I completley agree with and many things that just don't make any logical sense. |
Posted By: air_one
Date Posted: 30 October 2006 at 8:38am
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What language did prophet Jesus (AS) spoke? Do we have any Bible's in the language he spoke? The Quran is only in arabic...the language that prophet Muhammad spoke and conveyed to the people. Yes there are many translations of the Quran and some of them contain errors but the original arabic one is always there to be referred to. There is no different versions of the arabic original Quran. |
Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 02 November 2006 at 10:42am
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air-one
Written arabic of today is different from that of Mohammed. Accordingly, what he recited and was written down was not written down in modern arabic. ALL modern arabic Korans are, by deffinition, translations of the original written words. I do not believe ANY original antique arabic Korans exist today. Perhaps there is one in Yemen.... |
Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 02 November 2006 at 10:51am
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jacques4173 - You wrote: "The Bible has not been altered or changed in any way." Since when?
The Bible [New Teatament] did not exist until the Councel of Nicea VOTED on what to include. Accordingly, The New Testament is exactly what the MEN of NICEA said it was. And, by that time, even Paul's letters had been edited over the decades in ways that are clearly obvious to any linquist today. Beyond that, even Paul's conversion "On The Road To Damascus" is recounted differently in small but important details from one account to the other. Are you unaware of those differences? They can not all be The Exact Truth of God. Or else you must think God is a Scitzoid of some kind. Do you think that? |
Posted By: jacques4173
Date Posted: 02 November 2006 at 11:09am
| Jesus spoke Aramaic, and yes there are Aramaic bible I'm told. I'm going to research this to see if original text/information has been altered. Thanks to my boyfriend, I did come into the realization that Christians (i don't call myself one because I'm not living my life right, but that is the way I believe) for the most part all use the same Bible, however you can go to several different churches and they aren't preaching or teaching the same thing. And they should be if they are all reading from the same word that God sent. Everyone is not on one accord. Some don't believe in the Holy spirit, some don't believe in speaking in other tongues, some don't believe woman can wear pants, or makeup the list goes on but everyone is teaching from the same Bible. I finally got it yesterday and told min he was absolutely right that there is something wrong with that. So I am really learning a lot. I still have tons of questions and posed one to my boyfriend last night but he gets soo pissed off talking about this Religion because he tells me something and I don't just say ok I ask questions and pose different scenarios and he gets a bad attitude. I have a question: From what my boyfriend has told me and IMAM is a scholar right? I agree with that, because they have been very well educated and have studied and memorized the Quaran. Now his main thing is that they memorized the Quaran, which is a GREAT feat in itself. But he seems to be held in a regard that he is perfect and no one is. Also I was saying that we have thousands of Scholars around the world. If you get a PH.D or Doctorate degree in any field you are considered a scholar. And you don't have to memorize your text to be a scholar and the schooling for obtaining your PH.D is not easy. My boyfriend kept saying that they don't do any wrong, they don't sin, and they would never ask for anything in this life, or take any gift from people. This is the issue I have with this, first of all NO man/woman is perfect and the Devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy. He will come and tempt all, no one is exempt period. I don't feel that every single Imam on this earth does not/has not commit a sin or get tempted by the Devil, simply because we are all human and we occupy a fleshly body. We are to repent for any sin we commit or evil thought even if we didn't carry out an action. He's telling me no one is perfect but like 99% will NEVER sin period. Well that would mean they are perfect to me? And he says they are way up here and everyone else is beaneath them. What are your definitions of an IMAM. And why aren't there any Women IMAMS when in the spirit realm there are no male or female? Thanks |
Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 02 November 2006 at 2:12pm
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Posted By: jacques4173
Date Posted: 02 November 2006 at 4:59pm
| Hanan, we try to stop discussing it to prevent arguing but I find out things on this site and I tell him or he pops in an Imam reciting the Quaran. we try to avoid it because of his attitude but it's like he can't help to bring up something and i'm very inquisitive and that's where the attitude comes in. also my mother is a Christian Pastor of her own church and holds a doctorate degree in Theology, graduated Magna Cum Laude, so to me she is a scholar and he doesn't consider her one. and that's fine that's his opinion which is ok. Also he thinks because she hasn't memorized the whole Bible she isn't a scholar. And because when she teaches she references the chapters and scriptures of the Bible. I want to see everything for myself I don't care who is reciting something or telling me something, I want to see it with my own 2 eyes because people are human and they make mistakes, also we got into it about that and he asked me what kind of faith do we have if we listen to the preacher and we reference what they are discussing in the Bible. Bringing me to a point where we had a major heated argument about memorization and scholar and faith and he was listening to an Imam on cd and told me the Imam said birth control was a sin. So i asked him did he see that in the Quaran and he said no I don't have to, if the Imam said it that's it. That's where I said so what??? if my mom tells me something just cause she's my mom doesn't make her special I need to see it for myself, and when she is preaching that's exactly what she says. Everyone get out your Bible because I don't want you saying I said anything, I want you to see what the word said for yourself. And I find that it's not a sin based on plenty of answers on this site and told him, this is exactly why you need to read for yourself! It's hard not to discuss it with him because he's my boyfriend and we love each other and he's trying to show me a better way but his attitude sucks when I don't instantly agree. I don't know how to approach and Imam if I were to go to a Mosque, I wouldn't want to be disrespectful in anyway. |
Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 02 November 2006 at 8:11pm
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Posted By: jacques4173
Date Posted: 02 November 2006 at 9:33pm
| Thank you soo much for your advice, maybe I will do that while he's gone back to his country for a while. Thanks again. |
Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 03 November 2006 at 10:44am
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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 07 November 2006 at 10:40am
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jacques4173
Memorization shows dedication, but it does not show knowledge. I believe the New Testament is shorter then the Koran and is therefore easier to memorize. So what. I even heard some Muslims memorize the Koran in Arabic which they do not even speak. No knowledge can come from that. However, unlike Christianity, Islam has a tradition of both civil and criminal law. It is based the Koran and Hadith. This law, often called Sharia, has a long history. Accordingly, if I were a Muslim, I would consult with high level Sharia Law experts concerning important matters, not some local "Imam" who has gained some measure of local authority but may have little or no scholarly background in Islamic Jurisprudence. For instance, in recent times some Imams have counceled their congregations to take to the streets in actions that are clearly illegal even to non-Muslims. Specifically, NO PERSON may be punished without Sharia trial. Accused persons might lawfully be apprehended by Muslim citizens, for instance, for apostacy. But those citizens are clearly prohibited from vigilante actions of punishment. To do so would itself be against Sharia law. This is something that has seemingly been neglected by those who take military action into their own hands. For instance, by what Sharia Court Order did the Indonesian Muslims bomb the Bali hotels? These are not idle questions. Is Sharia a legal system of courts, jurists, and laws? If so, let us know who these jurists are, and under what authority they practice. Your local Imam is subject to these same laws and has no authority of his own to impose his own ideas on these matters. IMHO he must identify an appropriate Sharia court and submit to its authority, not impose his own. |
Posted By: Ghazzali
Date Posted: 09 November 2006 at 2:19pm
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Assalamualikum. I see the same problem here as with Mr.StephenC. You cannot expect to reach a solution based on two different principles. Non-muslims are putting forward their arguments based on their principles, and we muslims are doing the same. You cannot apply the laws of physics inside the black hole. First of all we need to come to a consensus that we will accept only the truth, from a neutral perspective. Our personal viewpoints which are strongly influenced by religious values should be set aside temporarily while searching for the truth. If we all start from zero, then the really real truth seekers are bound to agree on a single viewpoint. Please read my topic " the simplest reason to believe in islam." ------------- The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it. |