Muslims consider Isa (Jesus) as one of Islamic prophets and even though they do not consider Bible the word of God they love Isa and truly believe in the authenticity of what Isa preached (Injeel) Had that been with us today, Muslims would have no problem accepting it. Rejecting Isa�s message is tantamount to rejecting Allah as it is one of the articles of faith in Islam to believe in all the books of Allah. Isa was a prophet of Allah and a Christian will never catch a Muslim saying anything but good about Isa So if you love Isa (Jesus) you will love those who love him � Muslims.

Isa is described in Holy Qur�an as Isa Ibn Mariam (Jesus son of Mary). His name is repeated in the Qur�an many times. There is a Surah (Chapter of the Quran) titled Mariam (Mary), and in this Surah and throughout the whole Qur�an you will find a summary of who the historical Isa Ibn Mariam really was and what he, stood for.

Here is what Muslims believe of Isa (as):

1. He is NOT the begotten son of God - This is an outrageous lie and a heinous  blasphemy) A lie will always be a lie; no matter how many times it is recycled it will always remain a lie.
2. He did NOT claim divinity for himself, those who allege that are simply putting words into Isa�s mouth, and they�ve no basis for their claims.
3. He did not die for anyone�s sins. Everyone is responsible for their own deeds. 
4. His mother was not divine.
5. He spoke while still in the cradle in defense of his mother and testified to his prophet-hood.
6. He performed miracles, so did many prophets before him.
7. His birth was of miraculous nature, being born only of one parent, he was human every inch of him. He ate food, went for the call of nature, walked the streets, suffered people�s ignorance, prayed to his Lord and went about his business of calling to Allah the hardhearted Jews of his time. He was NOT sent to the non-Jews
8. He spoke the language of his people, and did not speak Greek.

bharatiya wrote: Rehmat brother, Why can't Jesus(for that matter) we all not be the progeny of Allah? After all we were produced by him...

Kindly note on the use of the words; creation and production are two different processes. Isn't it? What does you logic say about it? Allegorically, 'childern of God' is different than once it is used in literal sense in 'begotton childern'. Any wise guy can find the difference but what about the others? Cheers!

I would ask dear Bharatiya

Why are you an ordinary citizen and why not the prime minister of India? After all you were also created by Allah and as well as  Mr Manmohan Singh?

So its Allah's will whether to choose Jeses or Moses or Muhammad (Peace be on all of them). So they will be asked as to did they delivered the message in clear terms and told us how to act. We will be asked as to why we didn't obeyed even after recieving the clear instrustions?

So all can't be selected as Prophets or rulers etc. Where lies the test then? Can be there all students in the class with no teacher or all be the teachers with no students at all?? Similarly you have one hero in your movies why can't the director give the status of hero to all the actors or side actors??

Shams Zaman     Pakistan.

Greetings firewall,

Thanks for adding your comments�

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, and His Word ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (R�h) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Il�h (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And All�h is All­Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.  [Quran, 4:171]

The Messiah will never be proud to reject to be a slave to Allah, nor the angels who are near (to Allah). And whosoever rejects His worship and is proud, then He will gather them all together unto Himself." [Quran, 4:172]

Take a closer look�

�           You The Book's people, do not exaggerate/exceed the limit in your religion,

�           �wa� and do not say on Allah except the truth,

�           but the Messiah, Jesus,

�           Mary's son

�           Allah's messenger

�           �wa� and His Word

�           He threw it away to Mary,

�           �wa� and a Soul/Spirit from Him;

�           �fa� so believe with Allah,

�           �wa� and His messengers,

�           �wa� and do not say: "Three." Stop (it is) best for you,

�           but Allah (is) one Allah,

�           �yakoona� verily he shall be a child for Him

�           what (is) in the skies/space

�           �wa� and what (is) in the earth/Planet Earth, enough/sufficient with Allah (as a) guardian/protector.

It is clear from the text that Jesus is both Mary�s and (in this case) �allah�s� son.

Same theme copied from the Holy Bible.

Observe that Jesus is not merely �allah�s  messenger; but he is also �wa� his Word.

Same theme copied from the Holy Bible.

Furthermore, the �allah� of the Koran is shown to have a Spirit which is also imputed into Jesus.

Same theme copied from the Holy Bible.

Thus�.we have just witnessed three elements of �allah�.

Now...look what is stated next�

 �do not say: "Three."

Why should we not say that �allah� is three when we were just told of three elements that pertain to him�.?

Here�s why�

 Because�

 �Allah (is) one Allah�

What a novel idea.

Same theme copied from the Holy Bible.

Sound familiar�.?

It should, as it is lifted right out of the Holy Bible.

Furthermore�look at what the text states after this�

 �verily he shall be a child for Him�

Rock-solid Biblical confirmation that Jesus is God's son!!!

Any questions�?

Who else can raise the sea to make a pathway? Moses was there, was he the one who raises the sea? no, it was Allah.

Did Moses raise the dead�?

Yes...or no�.

so does Jesus. it was not Jesus who raise the dead. it was Allah. Allah says "Be" & it is.

Jesus is God.

You need to be asking this question:   Who raised Jesus from the dead?

The scriptures tell us this�

� God the Father�Romans 6.4; 10.9; Col 2.11-12; 1 Peter 1.20-21; 1 Cor 6.14; Acts 2.23-24; 3.14-15; 13.30-37; Hebrews 13.20-21; Eph 1.15-20; Gal 1.1; 1 Thes 1.9-10

� God the Spirit�Romans 8.11; 1 Peter 3.18

It is quite clear that the One God that raised Jesus from the dead is:

� Father

� Holy Spirit

Say: "Shall I seek a lord other than All�h, while He is the Lord of all things? No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another. Then unto your Lord is your return, so He will tell you that wherein you have been differing." [Quran, 6:164]

Why is the word �sin� in parenthesis�?

Please show us the Arabic word for �sin��

Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning). [Quran, 17:15]

also echoed at 19:7, 53:38. (thanks to Quran database )

These ayahs say nothing (pro or con) regarding Jesus� dying for our sins�

i thought when the Quran states that Jesus was not murdered at the cross, his followers would be happy that Allah saved him & took him to Allah. & yet, why do you want to believe Jesus died an inhuman death at the cross. can't you have even a spark of believe that Jesus was saved by the AlMighty?

The Koran states that Jesus was Crucified.

Why deny�.?

or, if i may say, it's just because if Jesus WAS saved, he then wouldn't die for your sins would he. thus that kind of believe will crumble the basic of your entire faith of Jesus, that he died for your sins?

If Jesus was saved from Crucifixion, then we would have been plainly told this in both the Holy Bible and subsequently in the Koran.

However, both Books tell us that He was indeed Crucified, Resurrected, and that He is God Almighty�

if that's the case, another question. why would he die for you, & not for God? isn't his life is to submit to God. suddenly he died for your sins? why? & if so, you will have a license to commit sins now, since Jesus has died for it. it's all doesn't make sense to me, i'm sorry...

Roman�s 5 should answer your questions�

Rom 5:1  Then being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rom 5:2  through whom also we have had access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we glory on the hope of the glory of God.

Rom 5:3  And not only so, but we glory also in afflictions, knowing that affliction works out patience,

Rom 5:4  and patience works out proven character; and proven character, hope.

Rom 5:5  And the hope does not put us to shame, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit given to us;

Rom 5:6  for we yet being without strength, in due time Christ died for ungodly ones.

Rom 5:7  For with difficulty one will die for a just one, (for perhaps one even dares to die for the sake of the good one),

Rom 5:8  but God commends His love to us in this, that we being yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:9  Much more then, being justified now by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath through Him.

Rom 5:10  For if while being enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life;

Rom 5:11  and not only so, but also glorying in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we now received the reconciliation.

Rom 5:12  Because of this, even as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death passed to all men, inasmuch as all sinned.

Rom 5:13  For sin was in the world until Law, but sin is not charged where there is no law;

Rom 5:14  but death reigned from Adam until Moses, even on those who had not sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a type of the coming One.

Rom 5:15  But the free gift is not also like the deviation. For if by the deviation of the one the many died, much more the grace of God, and the gift in grace, which is of the one Man, Jesus Christ, did abound to the many.

Rom 5:16  And the gift is not as by one having sinned; for indeed the judgment was of one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many deviations to justification.

Rom 5:17  For if by the deviation of the one death reigned through the one, much more those who are receiving the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall rule in life by the One, Jesus Christ.

Rom 5:18  So then, as through one deviation it was toward all men to condemnation, so also through one righteous act toward all men to justification of life.

Rom 5:19  For as through the one man's disobedience the many were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many shall be constituted righteous.

Rom 5:20  But Law came in besides, that the deviation might abound. But where sin abounded, grace much more abounded,

Rom 5:21  that as sin ruled in death, so also grace might rule through righteousness to everlasting life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

but on a positive note, if you care to notice, muslims DO believe in Jesus & his techings & the holy book sent to Jesus. it is one of Islam pillars of faith. so we do believe in Jesus's message.

If you believed in Jesus and His message, then you would be taking Him as your Lord and Savior at this very moment�

Is this the case�?

Greetings firewall,

Thanks for your comment�

Greetings ApplePie. hope you're happy.

We are well pleased�

about your statements, i still don't understand it, honestly. i don't think the Quran states about Jesus crucification. & if the Bible states it, then probably that verse was not revealed to Jesus. who then, the verse was revealed to? & is it really the truth?

Sura 86 tells us that Jesus was Crucified.

Period.

End of story.

You must be cognizant of this:

Islam is not the Koran.

The Koran is not Islam.

These two things are diametrically opposed regarding many, many things.

Islam is a man-made propaganda machine that has raged out of control for centuries engulfing the ignorant and unlearned masses�

Only a rare few individuals comprehend (or even want to comprehend, for that matter) the classic Arabic in which Islam claims to have ties to�

It is interesting that most Muslims are so jaded (from the Islamic machine) that they will cannot even accept what their very own book of faith truly states�as many consider a critical analysis of it a sin�

Talk about a dictatorship�

As long as this is the case�.then Muslims are doomed to suffer the second death prescribed by their very own book of faith�

Take care� 

Greetings Noah,

Thanks for venting�

Hi Apple pie its great to see you here freind. Did you get tired of having you ass handed to you over at free-minds.org ?

Free-minds is a mainstay in our diet�

Perhaps it is best that you continue to remain on the sidelines�.as you do at free-minds�

With your falty translations and arab dictionary rather actual use of the language.

How would you even know when you can barely spell English words correctly�?

Apple pie, please, spend you time on your own. You have nothing but hatefull rethoric to offer and at free minds eventually we got bored of your circular arguements with no grip whatsoever in reality of this world or translation.

Amazing�.another Muslim who has only �hate� on his mind�

Shall we put yet another checkmark in our little book�?

Take care�

• He was born of a virgin on December 25th in a cave/manger http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/footnote.htm#foot42" name="foot42" a=" - http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/footnote.htm#foot42" name="foot42" a=" - ⁴² , with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men. http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/footnote.htm#foot43" name="foot43" a=" - http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/footnote.htm#foot43" name="foot43" a=" - ⁴³
• He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old. http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/footnote.htm#foot44" name="foot44" a=" - http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/footnote.htm#foot44" name="foot44" a=" - ⁴⁴
• He was baptized by John the Baptist.
• He had 12 disciples.
• He performed miracles and raised, from the dead.
• He walked on water.
• He was transfigured on the Mount.
• He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
• He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word" etc.
• He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish ("Ichthys"). http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/footnote.htm#foot45" name="foot45" a=" - http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/footnote.htm#foot45" name="foot45" a=" - ⁴⁵
  http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/footnote.htm#foot46" name="foot46" a=" -
• He was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One
• http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/footnote.htm#foot47" name="foot47" a=" -

i will free minds is down atm ;)

More excuses...

Better late than never...

Thanks for saving us the trouble.

Mucho gracious...

Is there a reason Apple Pie speaks in plural? 

To make things simple, Christians believe in the Bible as the word of God.  In the Bible, accounts are written by eyewitnesses of his life and teachings.  The Koran was written 600 years later.  If one doesn't believe in Muhammed as a Prophet, then one is not going to believe what the Koran says about Isa.  That will always be the case.  Either your are Christian or Muslim when it comes to Jesus.  A Christian is always going to point to the New Testament and a Muslim the Koran.  But, since either doesn't believe in the other book it will not pose as a valid arguement.  Until some lost Roman record written by Potius Pilot surfaces saying.....Jesus of Nazereth, son of Mary, executed this day in the 19th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, we are going to go rounds on this topic.  There is no historical bullet to prove Jesus lived and died(or not died) in Jerusalem circa 33ad.  Arguing over religious proof is the most futile thing I've seen in these forums.  The New Testament says one thing, the Koran another, whether its the truth depends on your point of view.  Just ask Obi Wan Kenobi.     Sorry, if that goes over someones head, I apologize.

Angela