I made this post in reply in World politics - american philosophy, but I am making it as a complaint and posted again here. I am disgusted at the behaviour of some people here of late. I have encountered all sorts here but this this gone too far.

Hanan, you have no idea what you are talking about, You don't even know Patty!!  

You been here for 3 weeks and you can profess to KNOW Patty, please!

Your post is so misjudged. Blackmailer, you call Patty a blackmailer - wow   for saying that she will NOT make emails public, wow. You have really lost it.

Your post speaks so much hate than Patty has even done. I tell you what Patty hate is those muslims terrorist who make this world an unsafe place, yes you can start up with that the biggest terrorist is Bush/america but it is not going to change the fact that alot of terrorist are muslim they profess to be, (oh yes you can start up with that they are not muslims blah blah, I have heard it over and over the years, but you don't even care also that you own people are doing killings and oppression of muslims! Patty doesn't hate muslims! for god's sake she has them as friends where she lives for goodness sake! And it really troubles her when she comes here that she does not get the same treatment that of kindness,peace and understand and tolerance THAT MUSLIMS PROFESS TO BE, No all you can do, as well as Herijad and now Duende show and give the opposite, you have no clue what respect is especial of those who are different and with different views and opinons. 

Patty has done nothing in recents days but try and understand why you guys have been so horrible to her, she has tried to set the record straight but every time she tries, you end up putting her down adn you don't listen to her!

You blame her for things that are not her fault, she maybe an american but doesn't always agree with the government. You blame her for things that the government does, how does that help or help with tolerance of another people?

You think Patty hates muslims, you should re-read your post again about america! I can see very clearly that there is so much hate here for amercia AND americans even if you don't say it and despite what you guys say that you don't hate americans your posts speaks it. ALL posts are negative! how is it that suppose to try and get tolerance and respect?? YOU want respect, then show it, STOP telling others to give it to you, it does not work that way. 

I don't live in america and of course I dislike somethings but I am no way like you guys are, you have so much contempt I think you have lost your vision and islamic vision. WHat is happen of late is the worst I have seen it, I have been here for nearly 5 years and honestly the ignorance that is happening is running high, thru the roof. 

I think my islamic teachings that I have learnt has gone out the window!

Of all my years here Hanan, your post is the most vilest post about a member. I am shocked and disgusted.

Your attitude, along with Herjihad (who I actually liked and had respect for) and Duende now, is the worst I have encountered here!

It is very sad.

It amazes me that some people can have this attitude, and I wonder if they were face to face with the other person and said exactly the same thing? I wonder if the courage would be there? but since being behind a screen and no one see you, I think some people find it easier to attack than they would face to face! sad!

Salam/Peace,

Dear fellow muslim, I think we need to pay attention what Angel said. We have to remember that we as prophet Muhammad pbuh's followers must use him as an example during our daily life. In this case how he treated peoples as fellow human being, even to his enemies he treated them with dignity. As you might know some of his biggest enemy became his follower just because seeing his attitude.

On this forum I believe no one is classified as enemy to each other, so no one deserves bad or hoarse words. No one deserves personal attack.

Generalization is always bad. Like we don't like that we were labeled as terrorist because some of the 'terrorist' are muslims. The same thing we can not judge every American is evil because (we think) the us government do the evil things. Regarding president Bush, only a little over 50% (50.7%) of US voters that made him as a US president. If I am not mistaken only 42.45% of US eligible voters did vote. So ONLY 21% of us ELIGIBLE VOTERS who like bush (50.7 % of 42.45 % US voters).  So if we assume all bush supporter is bad and vice versa, there are more than 80% American are good.

(note: This number only calculated based on Us population that eligible to vote, and I don't have data how many % of us population that eligible to vote).

And I believe out f the 20% no one come here, if there is, just act "hit and run", so all American who stay here "long enough" all of them are have genuine intention to make friend and learn. So they deserve respect. 

Here, Here Angel.

I agree.  Patty is a kind loving woman who's interested in fostering open dialogue.  Just because she's not a screaming liberal self hating american doesn't mean she has no heart and compassion for those that are suffering.

I have truly been upset at the behavior shown by several Muslims towards Patty recently, including at least one I had once considered a good friend. 

When you accuse people of hatred and bigotry, you should first look in the mirror.  

I love a statement that Jesus made to them men who were about to stone the adultress.

John 8

How about relax for the time being, take a deep breath and think hard of what do you trying to achieve. Even when you are facing enemy than respect is due to the enemies, if truely they are enemies though.

Angel wrote: I made this post in reply in World politics - american philosophy, but I am making it as a complaint and posted again here. I am disgusted at the behaviour of some people here of late. I have encountered all sorts here but this this gone too far.   Hanan, you have no idea what you are talking about, You don't even know Patty!!   You been here for 3 weeks and you can profess to KNOW Patty, please! Your post is so misjudged. Blackmailer, you call Patty a blackmailer - wow   for saying that she will NOT make emails public, wow. You have really lost it. Your post speaks so much hate than Patty has even done. I tell you what Patty hate is those muslims terrorist who make this world an unsafe place, yes you can start up with that the biggest terrorist is Bush/america but it is not going to change the fact that alot of terrorist are muslim they profess to be, (oh yes you can start up with that they are not muslims blah blah, I have heard it over and over the years, but you don't even care also that you own people are doing killings and oppression of muslims! Patty doesn't hate muslims! for god's sake she has them as friends where she lives for goodness sake! And it really troubles her when she comes here that she does not get the same treatment that of kindness,peace and understand and tolerance THAT MUSLIMS PROFESS TO BE, No all you can do, as well as Herijad and now Duende show and give the opposite, you have no clue what respect is especial of those who are different and with different views and opinons.  Patty has done nothing in recents days but try and understand why you guys have been so horrible to her, she has tried to set the record straight but every time she tries, you end up putting her down adn you don't listen to her! You blame her for things that are not her fault, she maybe an american but doesn't always agree with the government. You blame her for things that the government does, how does that help or help with tolerance of another people? You think Patty hates muslims, you should re-read your post again about america! I can see very clearly that there is so much hate here for amercia AND americans even if you don't say it and despite what you guys say that you don't hate americans your posts speaks it. ALL posts are negative! how is it that suppose to try and get tolerance and respect?? YOU want respect, then show it, STOP telling others to give it to you, it does not work that way.  I don't live in america and of course I dislike somethings but I am no way like you guys are, you have so much contempt I think you have lost your vision and islamic vision. WHat is happen of late is the worst I have seen it, I have been here for nearly 5 years and honestly the ignorance that is happening is running high, thru the roof.  I think my islamic teachings that I have learnt has gone out the window! Of all my years here Hanan, your post is the most vilest post about a member. I am shocked and disgusted. Your attitude, along with Herjihad (who I actually liked and had respect for) and Duende now, is the worst I have encountered here! It is very sad. It amazes me that some people can have this attitude, and I wonder if they were face to face with the other person and said exactly the same thing? I wonder if the courage would be there? but since being behind a screen and no one see you, I think some people find it easier to attack than they would face to face! sad!

Bismillah,

I feel that Patty and Angel have been and continue to attack and slander me and my fellow Muslims here in underhanded, slight-of-hand, tricky ways, as well as overt ones.  I know that you want this to be your complaint section for comments to you between the poster and their complaint, but did you really want me to open a separate complaint on this comment Angel has made falsely accusing me of things? 

Angel, stop it.  No, you stop it.  No, you stop it.  I mean, I really don't know what to say to you. 

I was thinking that it might be useful to have a forum dedicated to sorting this kind of thing out so that if we got mired in them, we could have a specific place to discuss them and work on things as communicating forum members, if we so chose to, rather than muck up the forum with such things.

Salaamu Alaykum

Angela wrote: I have truly been upset at the behavior shown by several Muslims towards Patty recently, including at least one I had once considered a good friend.  When you accuse people of hatred and bigotry, you should first look in the mirror.

Bismillah,

Angela,

I don't like the way Angel or Patty have talked to me and my Muslim companions here on this forum.  I feel there are many attacks being ignored. 

It would be better if you talked to me rather than posting comments like these on the board.  What line was that anyway?

Salaamu Alaykum

Angel, you're one to mouth off at others. I recall you and Patty at each other's throats not too long ago at the Pond.  And out of the two, Patty was by far the worst with her remarks  - pity you didn't catch all the nuances but we wont go there...you're better of living in la la land.

Still I hope you have fun at the Pond.  Just poked my head in after a long absence [I'm sure I was missed] - sheesh, you'd get my dialogue out of a morgue.

MissNomad...how you've been  you must've missed me to come online and make a comment

Herjihad....no comment. [just shaking my head in dismay]

The line was you made a statement that was factually wrong, she not only corrected you, but listed a source to do so....and you attacked her by saying it was personal and that if you were a moderator you'd have her banned.

Really, you're going off about Patty and Angel being rude, yet Hanan and  you have been twice as rude as they have.  Frankly, its disappointing and hypocritical.

Patty and Angel have been members of this board for longer than you, Hanan and me combined.  They have long ago proven themselves and most of those complaining about them haven't been here that long.

Colin, Mishmish, Khadija and Patty have all left.  Daniel is on his way out... I'm really considering following.  Because of Daniel Dworsky has decided this place has gone that far, then of all those here, I respect his opinion most of all.

When people are able to make statements that are so totally offensive like the one Daniel stumbled on by Whisper.  I really have to wonder where adab went.  Its certainly missing here. 

There are a few western non muslims here that have come out of friendship.  Not to slander, not to convert, but to work on Olive Branches.  Does that mean they have to give up their beliefs in God, Prophets or Jesus?  NO!  It just means that they would like a better world. 

You have accused Patty of racism and hatred.  The only thing I've seen her express hatred towards are those that kill innocents. 

The biggest problem I've seen with those here recently, is you cannot separate friend from foe.  Frankly, that scares me.  Because if sane, faithful men and women can't tell the difference, then how am I ever going to feel safe. 

Over the last few days, I really have had to wonder this very question.  Are even the non believer friends of Muslims safe when their hatred turns against others?

Angela wrote: Colin, Mishmish, Khadija and Patty have all left.  Daniel is on his way out... I'm really considering following.  Because of Daniel Dworsky has decided this place has gone that far, then of all those here, I respect his opinion most of all

....

Angela wrote: The line was you made a statement that was factually wrong, she not only corrected you, but listed a source to do so....and you attacked her by saying it was personal and that if you were a moderator you'd have her banned. Really, you're going off about Patty and Angel being rude, yet Hanan and  you have been twice as rude as they have.  Frankly, its disappointing and hypocritical. Patty and Angel have been members of this board for longer than you, Hanan and me combined.  They have long ago proven themselves and most of those complaining about them haven't been here that long. Colin, Mishmish, Khadija and Patty have all left.  Daniel is on his way out... I'm really considering following.  Because of Daniel Dworsky has decided this place has gone that far, then of all those here, I respect his opinion most of all. When people are able to make statements that are so totally offensive like the one Daniel stumbled on by Whisper.  I really have to wonder where adab went.  Its certainly missing here.  There are a few western non muslims here that have come out of friendship.  Not to slander, not to convert, but to work on Olive Branches.  Does that mean they have to give up their beliefs in God, Prophets or Jesus?  NO!  It just means that they would like a better world.  You have accused Patty of racism and hatred.  The only thing I've seen her express hatred towards are those that kill innocents.  The biggest problem I've seen with those here recently, is you cannot separate friend from foe.  Frankly, that scares me.  Because if sane, faithful men and women can't tell the difference, then how am I ever going to feel safe.  Over the last few days, I really have had to wonder this very question.  Are even the non believer friends of Muslims safe when their hatred turns against others?

Bismillah,

Angela,

I'm not even going to discuss this matter with you because since you considered me a friend until you say I "crossed the line" and haven't contacted me about anything, I don't think that that is friendly behavior.  As I have said before, you should communicate with me about this because that is what a friend would do.

If you want to leave, that is your choice.   Fee Aman Illah.

Salaamu Alaykum

Angela wrote: Maybe if you'd answer your phone I would have.

Bismillah,

  Thanks for calling.  Now please stop posting stuff like this here.  Pm, e-mail, leave a message. 

Salaamu Alaykum

My suggestion is trite but its the most appropriate - no personal attack under any circumstances (even out of  retailiation, moderator should be referred than).

I posted this earlier to Whisper but also whent onto other things of importance so again, I post here.

Whisper, I used to admire you in some weird way despite youbeeing anti america. Stop picking on Sawtul.  So what if he wanted to not have his real whereabouts, that doesn't change who he is. He corrected himself that should be the end.

Just because someone doesn't want their location on in their profile should not be an issue.

Sawtul is making an effort, you are not.

I am just sick and tired of this crap going on here at IC. There have been way too many good people been driven away, both muslims and non muslims because of this stupid personal attacks and offenses going on, because some people just don't like the opposite or are wrong and don't want to see it or just doing it for the sake of trying to be one upmanship. Muslims don't like the preconceived notions that some non muslims have of muslims and islam, unfortunately some muslim keep that mindset on non muslims, and thus try and correct them but when it is the opposite - for the non muslims to stop the preconceived notions that muslims have (either personally on someone or other) they don't want a bar of it don't want to hear it and will continue thinking that non muslims - individually, and west and america is what they perconceive, they don't want to change their minds BUT expect non muslims to change their minds - preconceived notions of them. I am sorry but it works both ways. Islamcity is not the whole world even though many different nationalities and religions come here, we cannot solve the problems of the world even though we talk about them, ALL we can do is come together and be individuals of ourselves in common interests even if we disagree on many things. There is no need for such personal attacks/insults/offensives that goes on and off late and drive people away, individuals are not really their countries or government. What is really an american, a brit, an australian, an afghan, an iraqi ? Not every is muslim in the ME many follow other religions and faiths, and its incorrect to think that because something happens in the ME its always towards muslims, people here at IC seem to that, sure the place islamic but...IC is also a place of learning and interaction of both groups of muslims and non muslims, and hopefully build bridges.

It seems blantley alright for muslims to correct others and non muslims but when it is the other way it seems a different story and an excuse that for muslims to say that non muslims are not being respectful or attacking or insulting. And that is just wrong. I have been accused of being slanderous and attacking by Herjihad for what ? showing that she was incorrect and that her behaviour was uncceptable accusing people of the same thing that herijad has done.

Now it is unfair that Sawtul is being accused of lying and that anything he says now will not be taken because he has changed his location because he didn't want to show where he is, how is that fair, the guy hasn't done anything wrong nor accuse anybody of anything except of saying "off topic".

Also to those who seem to have a problem with me, if the moderators and Administration had a problem with me, I am quite sure they would contact me about my behaviour or banned me long ago.  

Angel wrote: I posted this earlier to Whisper but also whent onto other things of importance so again, I post here. Whisper, I used to admire you in some weird way despite youbeeing anti america. Stop picking on Sawtul.  So what if he wanted to not have his real whereabouts, that doesn't change who he is. He corrected himself that should be the end. Just because someone doesn't want their location on in their profile should not be an issue. Sawtul is making an effort, you are not. I am just sick and tired of this crap going on here at IC. There have been way too many good people been driven away, both muslims and non muslims because of this stupid personal attacks and offenses going on, because some people just don't like the opposite or are wrong and don't want to see it or just doing it for the sake of trying to be one upmanship. Muslims don't like the preconceived notions that some non muslims have of muslims and islam, unfortunately some muslim keep that mindset on non muslims, and thus try and correct them but when it is the opposite - for the non muslims to stop the preconceived notions that muslims have (either personally on someone or other) they don't want a bar of it don't want to hear it and will continue thinking that non muslims - individually, and west and america is what they perconceive, they don't want to change their minds BUT expect non muslims to change their minds - preconceived notions of them. I am sorry but it works both ways. Islamcity is not the whole world even though many different nationalities and religions come here, we cannot solve the problems of the world even though we talk about them, ALL we can do is come together and be individuals of ourselves in common interests even if we disagree on many things. There is no need for such personal attacks/insults/offensives that goes on and off late and drive people away, individuals are not really their countries or government. What is really an american, a brit, an australian, an afghan, an iraqi ? Not every is muslim in the ME many follow other religions and faiths, and its incorrect to think that because something happens in the ME its always towards muslims, people here at IC seem to that, sure the place islamic but...IC is also a place of learning and interaction of both groups of muslims and non muslims, and hopefully build bridges. It seems blantley alright for muslims to correct others and non muslims but when it is the other way it seems a different story and an excuse that for muslims to say that non muslims are not being respectful or attacking or insulting. And that is just wrong. I have been accused of being slanderous and attacking by Herjihad for what ? showing that she was incorrect and that her behaviour was uncceptable accusing people of the same thing that herijad has done. Now it is unfair that Sawtul is being accused of lying and that anything he says now will not be taken because he has changed his location because he didn't want to show where he is, how is that fair, the guy hasn't done anything wrong nor accuse anybody of anything except of saying "off topic".   Also to those who seem to have a problem with me, if the moderators and Administration had a problem with me, I am quite sure they would contact me about my behaviour or banned me long ago.

Bismillah,

I would ask that you stop repeating the same lies over and over again, Angel.  And I am not sick and tired of IC.  I am pleased that it is here, pleased to have dialogue and discussion on many important issues.  I have learned and continue to learn here.  Sometimes the lesson isn't even about religion or politics, but about people.  And people are what it's all about after all anyway.

Salaamu Alaykum

.

herjihad And I am not sick and tired of IC.  [/quote wrote: And I never said that myself, of course I lik

And I never said that myself, of course I like IC wouldn't been here otherwise and I care about the people here, if I didn't I wouldn't try and bother to build bridges and learn islam and muslims and help the boards.

If anyone wishes to carry out personal attacks, the forum is NOT the place.

Personal attacks ruin a forum, friends are lost and people do feel and get hurt. It should stop.

From now on, if there is any personal attack from anyone, regardless of religion, I will delete the entire content of such a post without offering any reason. Please do not expect a mod-edit.

I am mostly busy on Interfaith Dialogues and do not read other topics. Anyone can PM me and give me the link to such annoying posts and I shall be there with my scissors.

Best Regards to All

BMZ

bmzsp wrote: If anyone wishes to carry out personal attacks, the forum is NOT the place. Personal attacks ruin a forum, friends are lost and people do feel and get hurt. It should stop. From now on, if there is any personal attack from anyone, regardless of religion, I will delete the entire content of such a post without offering any reason. Please do not expect a mod-edit. I am mostly busy on Interfaith Dialogues and do not read other topics. Anyone can PM me and give me the link to such annoying posts and I shall be there with my scissors. Best Regards to All BMZ

Please resign from being an Moderator...ur participation will highly be regarded,this is Islamicity and any of an mission or job can't be prior onto the responsibilities of board,especially if one recieved and regarded as a moderator,we assumed that u will regard and care ur job ...thx..

Suleyman,

I agree with you.Point taken. 

I think I should resign from being a moderator and try to participate more in "dishonourable" exchanges.

BMZ

I am bowing before you (nose touching the floor) my honorable friend Whisper, for not taking the pork-rind bait.

Hamsheer�eh, why would I ever respond to anyone who fails to see that the real point lay beyond �location�. This man was pretending to be an Afghan, with a wide non-Afghan twang and with even wider un-Afghan Zionist propaganda posts.

Yet, I must admit, it�s great fun to see him being beamed up to all those countries with the exception of the one he really belongs to!

Asalaamu alaikum to all...

Sister Herjihad and Angela, you are beloved to the forum, may Allah (swt) grant peace to heal the rift between you. Even though you are of different faiths, may the line become a binding cord...

To Brother Whisper, dont leave! You have a gift with words. At time you inflame, others you cause laughter. Your love for your family is apparent even in this scribble called script! You serve Allah well in your questioning of "establishment". We surely need our troubadours in this chaotic world..

Brother Bmzsp....

I never could figure out the acronym in your name, To this old nurse you know what the first 2 letter stand for...but that is MY mind not yours..You are a wise brother and jazakallah khair!

To precious sisters Amah and Fatima, thank you for caring for us tempestuous children of the forum..after all, that is what "we" remind me of often..

And to Brother Administrator:

Thank you for tolerating us "humans"

And to all I may not have mentioned, may the advent of Ramadan heal our minds and help us focus on what is really important..

See you on the forum!

Wa Salaam

maryah

49:10 The Believers are but a single brotherhood: So make peace and reconciliation between your two (contending) brothers; and fear Allah, that ye may receive Mercy.

everyone gets mentioned except me and its MY thread!

just joking

Angel,

You are the sweetest of 'em all.

thanks bmz

Angel wrote: everyone gets mentioned except me and its MY thread!   just joking

And to you Angel, may you be compelled to make this upcoming a GOOD Ramadan

Wa salaama