Torah and Injeel
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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6569
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Topic: Torah and Injeel
Posted By: B.H.
Subject: Torah and Injeel
Date Posted: 28 August 2006 at 11:35pm
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Greetings, Is there anyway that we can know for sure what parts of the torah and Injeel are from Allah and which parts are later forgeries by men? |
Replies:
Posted By: Cyril
Date Posted: 29 August 2006 at 3:29am
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One could also ask how could a forged Torah and Injil come into existence. From the Quran it can be assumed that until the time of Jesus they were intact. After the time of Jesus, Jews and Christians were scattered all over the Roman Empire. As Jews and Christians were in strong opposition how could they have forged the Scriptures in the same way? How could the dispersed Christian communities agree on a common forgery of the Gospel? That also is hard to believe. |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 29 August 2006 at 4:44am
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Greetings, B.H From you: "Is there anyway that we can know for sure what parts of the Torah and Injeel are from Allah and which parts are later forgeries by men?" I would like to know if you have read the entire Jewish Holy Scriptures and the Christian Bible. If you have, then you can esily find the Words of the Lord Almighty Allah in these Scriptures. You will be able to differentiate easily between the Words or Statements or Commandments of God and the writings by men. I would strongly recommed that you read Isaiah in the Jewish Holy Scriptures (Jewish Bible) and compare it with Isaiah in the Chrsitian Old Testament of the Christian Bible. After reading that chapter carefully, check with Qur'aan. You will be dazzled. |
Posted By: Cyril
Date Posted: 29 August 2006 at 5:10am
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Bmzsp I don't understand what you mean with "Isaiah in the Jewish Holy Scriptures (Jewish Bible) and compare it with Isaiah in the Chrsitian Old Testament of the Christian Bible." The Christian Old Testament is translated from the Jewish Bible, that is the OT in Hebrew. If you think there are differences in translation you can point them to me as I have the Jewish Bible and several Christian Bibles. |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 8:37am
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Hi Cyril, From you: ""I don't understand what you mean with "Isaiah in the Jewish Holy Scriptures (Jewish Bible) and compare it with Isaiah in the Chrsitian Old Testament of the Christian Bible." I have the Jewish Holy Scriptures in the Masoretic Text and other books with me. I have also a few copies of various versions of the Christian Bible. After reading the Jewish Bible, discussing it with the Rabbis and Jewish scholars and comparing it with the OT of the Christian Bible, I found that there are not only differences in translation but also in the interpretations. The Jews do not accept the OT of the Christian Bible, while the Christians have copied it from the Jewish Scriptures. Please take a look at this chart, which I have copied from an email to me. Various translations of Isaiah 7:14
This is just an example. Have you read Genesis 24:16 in both the Jewish and the Christian Scriptures? You may find that interesting. BMZ
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Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 8:43am
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Bmzsp, The Qur'an have have the same outlook when we look at English translations. I mean can you post transliterations? After all the english equivalent of words are used to best describe the meaning of the word(s) being translated right? |
Posted By: Cyril
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 9:41am
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Hi Bmzsp Most Christians know the controversy about Isaiah 7:14. This is what the Jewish Bible says: Adonay is about to give a "'ot", that is a sign: "hinneh ha3almah harah veyoledet ben veqara't shmo 3immanu'el" Translation: "The young woman is pregnant and will give birth to a son, and she will call him by the name Immanuel" Christian translators used to translate 3almah with virgin. The reason was a good one as the same verse was cited in the New Testament from an old Greek Jewish translation, the Septuagint, in which 3almah was understood as virgin (a young woman could be a virgin, coudn't she). Christians have decided that the official Old Testament is the Jewish one. So for 3almah are the modern translations going to follow the Jewish Bible or the Septuagint? Let's see: I start with French translations: the TOB (Catholic and Protestant) says "young woman" the Jerusalem Bible (Catholic) "young woman" the French version of the United Bible Societies (Protestant) "young girl" the Bible in Everyday French (Protestant) "young woman" the Segond Bible (Protestant) "virgin" in older translations, "young girl" in later translations. I think it must be the same with modern English translations. I have only English New Testaments. |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 9:42am
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Hi Israfil, I would agree with that. What is happening in terms of the Jewish Scriptures is that these are being interpreted differently by the Christians and the Jews do not accept that. Both are supposed to read the same book and should understand it the same way, but it is not the case, Israfil. It is exactly like when I explain Christian Scriptures and my Christian n friends do not accept and appreciate my exegesis. Good Night from Singapore BMZ |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 9:45am
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Thanks, Cyril. That is something quite new to me when you wrote about the French translations. Thanks again & Good Night BMZ |