so what is the woman suppose to do, stay home all day? take the occassional stroll or shopping trip or a yarn with her girlfriends perhaps?

I read the article, well written thou. I don't discredit that some (not all) are perhaps like this.

Can we have a thread which reads: "why you shouldn't marry a career man?" in the women's corner perhaps  You know how many women don't get to see their lawyer/doctor/army/navy husbands

candid wrote: http://in.rediff.com/money/2006/aug/24forbes1.htm - http://in.rediff.com/money/2006/aug/24forbes1.htm

Bismillah,

This article has so many flaws in its lack of reasoned approach to family life.  They are just too numerous for me to take the time to point each one out.

Salaamu Alaykum

Angel wrote: so what is the woman suppose to do, stay home all day? take the occassional stroll or shopping trip or a yarn with her girlfriends perhaps? I read the article, well written thou. I don't discredit that some (not all) are perhaps like this. Can we have a thread which reads: "why you shouldn't marry a career man?" in the women's corner perhaps  You know how many women don't get to see their lawyer/doctor/army/navy husbands

Yep, I agree. Career woman shouldn't marry "career man" (assuming rest of the women will prefer to marry career man). Atleast, that will ensure fair distribution of jobs among families, as each family will have only one earning member. And the other person will look after home (again assuming that career women will need someone to look after home).

A few questions:

What does it mean by career woman?

Does it mean a woman who is working her profession? Or a woman who works 80 hours every two weeks? It says in the following:

To be clear, we're not talking about a high-school dropout minding a cash register. For our purposes, a "career girl" has a university-level (or higher) education, works more than 35 hours a week outside the home and makes more than $30,000 a year.

So if you're highly educated and work more than 35 hours a wekk and generate over $30k a year you are in this category of a career woman?

I also made the note that Forbes.com tend to focus most on "wealthy" and/ "rich" people or studies/articles involving well off individuals I mean look at the following slide shows it provides as part of its evidence:

• http://www.forbes.com/2006/07/25/cx_mn_singles06_destined_misery_slide.html?partner=rediff" target=_new>Slideshow: Why You Shouldn't Marry A Career Woman
• http://www.forbes.com/2006/01/26/cz_lk_0127divorceslide.html?partner=rediff" target=_new>Slideshow: Billionaire Divorces
• http://www.forbes.com/2006/08/15/cx_sh_0815weddings.html?partner=rediff" target=_new>Slideshow: Billionaire Weddings
  • http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/2006/03/08/06billionaires_women_slide.html?partner=rediff" target=_new>Slideshow: Billionaire Women We Envy
  • http://www.forbes.com/2005/07/26/cz_05powom_all_slide.html?partner=rediff" target=_new>Slideshow: The World's Most Powerful Women

Salamu alekum

thanks for this good topic....but i disagree with u

There is nothing in Islam instructing women not to work.This is beneficial for the country's economy & family, working women support alot .

If you asked me I think these tools for evidence are unrealistic seeing how 1% of the U.S population are considered billionares or "wealthy." Also I asked what evidence does this article show (besides naming social scientist and their study) as proof that Middle-Class Women suffer from marriage failures as well as men? What about medical professional with degrees in medicine? What does it show for them? Even if we were to judge based on class I'd like to know the most likely class that would divorce in marriage. Also it can depend on what profession you choose.

According to the article:-

In 2004, John H. Johnson examined data from the Survey of Income and Program Participation and concluded that gender has a significant influence on the relationship between work hours and increases in the probability of divorce. Women's work hours consistently increase divorce, whereas increases in men's work hours often have no statistical effect.

Why you shouldn't marry career women - here's the career women's perspective:

I have a so called higher degree and make more than 100 K a year working 40 hours a week. I have been married for 4 years now, and most of our marital life has been tainted by my being a "career woman", because my husband is not, and he keeps finding something he can rub under my nose, a fault here, a flaw there, he is most imaginative coming up with some flaws I supposedly have. He is so scared that I might rub under his nose that I make more money, have a higher degree etc., that he makes my life miserable, just prophylactically. I have never ONCE mentioned the fact that by the way I can do with my money whatever I please, and still he manages to control my every penny that I spend.

So my advise to any man: Think real, real hard before you marry a woman that makes more money than you do or ever will. Unless you have a very very strong self-esteem and love of Allah, it will be very difficult for both of you.

And my advise to women: if you are a career woman, see above. I used to be under the illusion that education and money doesn't matter, only a pure, believing heart does. but it doesn't work this way unless BOTH think, feel and live like this.

This is not just a problem in our typical islamic, eastern society, there's a book out there by Ginny Graves "Bringing home the bacon. Making marriage work when she is making more money". 

Salaam

I read your story in another forum. I hope even you will accept that your problem is exceptional. There are very few women who are as naive as to have the illusion that 'education and money doesn't matter' in marriage.

I sympathise with you. Perhaps, your husband does not treat you properly because you allow him to take you for granted. Sometimes people mistake kindness for weakness.

You know, everyone has a story behind what works and what doesn't work. Of course the bias (and usually non-certified opinion) of other Muslims who observed the religious laws hand-in-foot usually say that women are suppsed to stay home and let the man take care of them. Of course I disagree and if there is any disagreement between me and Allah it would be on that issue but of course God is understanding so I don't presume I'll burn in hellfire simply because I believe that living conditions even meager living in my area requires two people unless one makes an incredible amount of money....

the woman I'm currently discussing relations with wants a career and wants children, but all at a later time. The p,an now is to settle in our careers and have children later at a time where our lives are stable. That is usually the smart thing to do. Especially since I'm on my way into the doctorate program for Psychology (I'm doing philosophy later on). I'm also teaching undergraduate philosophy at a local university so in essence, I do not have much time to start a family. So what's the key word here? Planning your life.......

For so many people especially cultural traditions that emphasize heavily on big families and such, that the young adults are often pressured into having families at young ages. Now, living with this in addition to the Islamic culture of the family some think of family, children all in the now without planning their life. the important thing is to plan your life with the other person and see if what you share and the other person shares are in common.

can one really plan their life. isnt allah the best of planners. ive often come across couples who hold off on having kids cos they want to establish themselves first or they want stability first. personally i dont support that view, cos i think its better to have your kids when u are younger and energetic as opposed to starting a family at the age of 50. also for women, the biological clock is ticking so time isnt a luxury that one has.

Rook (forgive me for shortening your name),

Your reasons are personal ones and that is fine but please take into account that life in the some areas of the States is especially hard. It's quite easy for traditionalist within Islam as well as traditional non-Muslims to say what is anbd what is not important but people do what they want. You are right to say Allah is the best of planners but at the same time Allah has given humans a brain so I don't think its practical to sit around and wait for Allah to make your life right. My point here is in my personal and biased view regarding marriage I believe its important to plan ahead.

As you have experienced some couples who wait to have children I have seen many many many many youths as well as older adults who have children that were not plan and they regret the pregnancy (not the child of course) because they did not plan and it made their lives difficult. I mean, why have a child when you're not even established yourself? That only makes the situation more difficult to raise a family. So many teens have children and then dump them off to their parents to take care of them while they go out and party because they were robbed of that experience by becoming a parent.

There are so many cases to look at here. Aside from maintaining your traditional view we must examine the other experiences people have encountered. Another problem I find in some women are the pressures of having a child. They meet men who are establishing their own lives yet, pressure them (in the later parts of their relationship) to have a child (or children). To me that is impractical. For one, choose someone who shares the same values as you when it comes to education, family etc. Do choose someone who "looks good" or makes you feel good but does not share in the same family value as you do.

Also, don't pressure the man because pressuring someone for whatever reason especially against their will can destroy a relationship. Child bearing  is a mutual plan. Just because the woman is on her life cycle and her "clock is ticking" doesn't give her the right to pressure a man to procreate a child. If a woman wants a child that bad try artificial incimination (I may have mispelled that).

Rookiya: to a degree you may be right but on the other hand if you are not financially as all in a position, especially if the cost of living is so high, it can be a disaster.

For everyone it is different. I feel that sometimes "older" couple are more prepared emotionally to have the children. They may have matured more and more calm then if you were really young. Plus here there is far less familial support. People don't live with as many relatives, often not in the same city. And on top of that you don't have life's experiences to give you prespective.

Besides we know more about science and nutrition..if you eat lousy food you'll feel lousy.  Energy level is individual, I know some really lazy young people, far more tired then I am.. lol.  

Candid, thank you for sympathising. Even though I do agree this is not a common problem, it is getting more and more common, I've read about other women's similar problems. And yes, I have been very naive.

Israfil, you know what's really funny is that I DID plan my life... I planned to finish my degree, then get married, then get kids... but it doesn't always work out the way we had planned, right?

I finished my degree, and then it took me years to find somebody to marry. And then it was HIM, and my in-laws, who were the ones pressuring for children... it isn't always the woman, you know, who wants children so badly. Where I come from it is the in-laws more often than not.

And just another thought: some men never grow up (no offense), never do get established, so how long do you wait?

May Allah bless you all

almostthere I agree that "Life happens" which can dissimilate our plans for our respective futures but the point of planning is to have a guide of what we want to accomplish in life. If we go through life in a nihilistic mindset we would be less structured, knowledgable on our lives and more prone to make disastrous decisions. Allow me to give a western opinion in that when in-laws pressure the man (or woman) to have children, the man and the woman must first have the ability to distance themselves from the opinion of insiginificant parties. For in-laws to pressure a man and a woman is like someone pressuring me to use the bathroom at this time. People have kids when they're ready but my point was that its better to plan your life then be reckless and be 16,17 or 19 having children and living with your parents and expecting them to care for them....

I guess some cultures are different but my culture and family has always taught me to make smart decisions where I don't fall into circumstances such as that. Even though life happens, there is an area where we must take responsibility of our own behavior.

well ..well..well

no one has ever called me Rook before. maybe rooks but not rook. rook means smoke in afrikaans

anyway, i was just giving my own view on that issue of "waiting till u are ready , or waiting for the right time". is there ever really a right time to have kids. if there is, please explain to me when that time is.

can one ever be ready to have kids...i dunno. im a mom of 4 kids. i had my first daughter in my final year of university. shes now 10 years old. my son is 10 months old. i have a 3 year old and a 5 year old in between. ....life sometimes happens, not in the way u planned, and u have to make the most of ur circumstances. my sister told me the other day that she never thought i would have 4 kids.....and a career...and still be studying while i have  a baby. i didnt plan any of this. wallahi i didnt. it happened n i had no control over it. but i can tell eveyone that im so glad of how things turned out and i cant imagine how empty my life would have been today if these 4 bundles of joy were not part of it.I have been truly blessed.

alhamdulilah, thus far i have been able to provide the best for my kids and they dont go without food or clothing. i thank Allah for that. and i do sympathise with those who are not as fortunate as myself. it is indeed an injustice to a child to bring him or her into this world n let them live a life of poverty and suffering. especially if u knew that u couldnt afford to have kids, but u went ahead and had them anyway. on the other hand, what about someone who is able to provide financially at the time of getting pregnant, and then later loses their job n is now in poverty n cant provide for that child. how does one then work around such circumstances cos there are no guarantees and no certainties in life. should that person now terminate the pregnancy or maybe give up the child for adoption?

Can someone tell me what al-quran says about whether women can work or not? i known that a womans role has been defined in al-quran but from what i understand there is no clear guidelines on whether men should work or not. If anyone has any reference from al-quran to answer my question please post them.

Thank you, Peace!

Seeking Truth wrote: Can someone tell me what al-quran says about whether women can work or not? i known that a womans role has been defined in al-quran but from what i understand there is no clear guidelines on whether men should work or not. If anyone has any reference from al-quran to answer my question please post them. Thank you, Peace!

Quran certainly does not impose restriction on women to work. A job which does not violet/compromise the basic ethical principles are of course permissible.