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Antichrist

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Topic: Antichrist
Posted By: Shery
Subject: Antichrist
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 11:37am

Who is the antichist and what is the main mission of the antichrist ?

the antichrist is someone who will claim that he is god and his mission to make most of the people believe in him

lets see who can be the antichrist ?

In our Koran it says ...

 

27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!

28. "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"

29. But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"

30. He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;

31. "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;

32. "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;

33. "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

34. Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.

35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.

36. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight

Surat Mary

 

So we all muslims knows that jesus never been crusified or killed

and there s some1 else who been crusified

in this matter ( many peoples said many different things )

as some said he was judas iscariot , and some said it was a faithful guy who said he will sacrifice himself for jesus

I personally believe that he was Judas iscariot

Because the story based on the other god based on the story of ( nag hammady in egypt ) when they have found a old scripture which they think its the book of Judas that tells that he did nt betray jesus ect,,,

 

I strongly believe that he was Judas iscariot , he was the one who looked like jesus and he was the one been crusified

 

So the mission of antichrist to make people believe that he is GOD

Judas iscariot probably was the antichrist , he been crusified ( and that was a punishment that god gave to Judas for betraying jesus )

because that Judas is the antichrist , he wouldnt die as us

that is why ( they couldnt find his body after 3 days from his death )

The story of mary magedoline ( i think its not fake either )

I think that the antichrist ( judas iscariot ) would seek a ( whore) as mary magdeline to escape with her and to continue his mission in earth and production as I think he is not only one person he can get a family and everything ...

The largest religion in the world now is ( christianity )

the people believe that the one who been crusified is ( jesus) is ( god)

 

So first mission by Judas was accomplished ( people ) believe that he is ( god ) that he is ( jesus )

I hope you can get my point here

the antichrist is smart he dont have to come himself and say hey  I m god believe at me

Also judas iscariot wanted so badly to corrupt the truth so he simply wrote a scripture which is ( known now as Judas scripture )

Who do  I think that he is Judas of today

 I think he is a priest in USA who work in george town university

his name is (FR James Shcall )

why do  I think that he is the antichrist

YOu can read all his articles against islam and muslims and preaching for wars

Prophet mohamed told us that the antichrist will born with one eye

JAmes schall born with one eye

The movie of the passion of the christ shows that jesus when he was crusified he lost his eyes

The one who made comment on this movie

was Fr james schall he said that this is the most movie closet to the reality

I know its sound as a fairytale

But this man either the antichrist or from his race

We all know that gospel and christian book are not all corrupted cuz if it was all corrupted

allh wouldnt say that the gospel and torah was corrupted , He would say they have changed totaly

which means tht some parts of their book is true

and according to their revelation ...

the person who would be the antichrist will have power over politics and religions and they refered that it could be vatican

while I think yes vatican could probably be involved

but James Schall is the real antichrist or one of his soldier

and ALLah A3lam

Please feel free to ask me anything about my theory ..

and please check the role of georgetown university in the politics part in USA and also check all article posted by James Schall and i have 3 pictures for him ...

 



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Replies:
Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 1:12pm
Shery - You wrote: "So we all muslims knows that jesus never been crusified or killed..."

I read and reread the Koramic quotes you provide, and I do not see any that say Jesus was never crucified or killed. Did I miss something? Please identify the passage that shows to you he was neither crucified or killed?


Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 1:27pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Shery - You wrote: "So we all muslims knows that jesus never been crusified or killed..."

I read and reread the Koramic quotes you provide, and I do not see any that say Jesus was never crucified or killed. Did I miss something? Please identify the passage that shows to you he was neither crucified or killed?
``

 

Yes we all muslims believes in jesus and saint mary

as a prophet and purest woman in world

Let me show you the verses

45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. 46. "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." 47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is! 48. "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel, 49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe; 50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me. 51. "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'" 52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. 53. "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness." 54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah. 55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

 

So its obvious from this verses number 55

that jesus wasnt crusified or killed

 



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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 2:26pm
Shery - Nice try.

However, I still don't see how Allah raising Jesus to himself precludes that jesus died on the cross first. Is there an interpretation that says he was raised to Allah while he was still living, just like Muhammed? This verse does not seem to say that.

You get as many attempts at this as you can summon.


Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 2:56pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Shery - Nice try.

However, I still don't see how Allah raising Jesus to himself precludes that jesus died on the cross first. Is there an interpretation that says he was raised to Allah while he was still living, just like Muhammed? This verse does not seem to say that.

You get as many attempts at this as you can summon.

 

Not nice trye its koran you can check it yourself ,,, let me bring you more verses from koran

this verses i just sent in my last post was from surat ( al immaran  )

beside what is exact your point ?

that some muslims believe that jesus was crusified ?

Not at all , all muslims believe that jesus didnt die or crusified

and some of the muslims believe that jesus will come back and preach for islam and destroy all crosses and he will claim that he is not the son of god neither god

please wait till I got you more verses about jesus in koran ...

regards



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Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 3:06pm

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155. (They have incurred divine displeasure): In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of Allah. that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah.s Word; We need no more)";- Nay, Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-

156. That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

159. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them

 

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Surah An-NISA ( woman )



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Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 5:08pm
EjDavid ever thought that prior to crucifixion in a secret place (or open)
Jesus was raised to Allah? It is said that a likeness was in place to make it
look like Jesus. Also, I'm not sure if I read it right but Muhammad was not
raised to God like Jesus. He died.


Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 5:22pm
Sherry - You wrote: "beside what is exact your point?"

Your reputation will improve with more vigorous self analysis of your own evidence - before presenting it to others. Your third citation was perfect.

Another thing. IMHO, I would have only presented 156 and 157. The others, though interesting, do not concern the matter of crucifixion, which is the topic of interest. As a result, they serve as a small diversion from the central discussion.

Best Wishes,
ejdavid


Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 5:33pm
Israfil

Thanks for the hypotheticals. However, I just don't know enough about the Islamic texts on the matter to make an informed discussion.

I do know something about the Gnostics and the Gospel Of Judas. Specifically, it was written long after Judas died, and was never accepted by the christian church. The Councel of Nicea in the fourth century CE sorted through dozens of texts - gospels and otherwise, and selected those now in the new testament. That is really the beginning of organized and standardized Christianity.

Didn't Mohammed ride to heaven on a horse?


Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 5:45pm

Originally posted by Israfil Israfil wrote:

EjDavid ever thought that prior to crucifixion in a secret place (or open)
Jesus was raised to Allah? It is said that a likeness was in place to make it
look like Jesus. Also, I'm not sure if I read it right but Muhammad was not
raised to God like Jesus. He died.

so what is the problem if prophet mohamed passed away and jesus was raised

GOd do whatever HE wants

Beside was prophet mohamed the only prophets who died ?

or all prophets from Ivrahim to mohamed died ? and jesus will die too one day ... that is what i have heard and ( god knows better )



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Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 5:46pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Sherry - You wrote: "beside what is exact your point?"

Your reputation will improve with more vigorous self analysis of your own evidence - before presenting it to others. Your third citation was perfect.

Another thing. IMHO, I would have only presented 156 and 157. The others, though interesting, do not concern the matter of crucifixion, which is the topic of interest. As a result, they serve as a small diversion from the central discussion.

 

well I wanted you to read the whole pragraph and I highlight on the verses that mention crusified

Take it easy man

Regards

Best Wishes,
ejdavid



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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 5:48pm
Sherry,

Please don't be offended by my 'criticizm'. I worked several decades for the United States General Accountability Office, and it was one of my jobs to analyze our own reports.

The authors would actually take a ruler and mark off individual sentences, or sometime larger blocks of texts in a draft report. These would have citations supporting their veracity hand written on the left hand side. I would then review the evidence cited and determine if it was good enough evidence before presenting the report to the public.

Very tedious, and often times contentious, but important work. My first report like this was one on whether the US should convert to the metric system. The Controler General asked us to do the report because, I think, he believed it was a good idea to convert, though he was scrupulous and never said so.

We quickly determined it probably was not such a good idea to mandate any sort of conversion, and that is what was eventually reported. Just not enough evidence to suport the value of actually doing it, and plenty of negative evidence as well.


Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 5:48pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Israfil

Thanks for the hypotheticals. However, I just don't know enough about the Islamic texts on the matter to make an informed discussion.

I do know something about the Gnostics and the Gospel Of Judas. Specifically, it was written long after Judas died, and was never accepted by the christian church. The Councel of Nicea in the fourth century CE sorted through dozens of texts - gospels and otherwise, and selected those now in the new testament. That is really the beginning of organized and standardized Christianity.

Didn't Mohammed ride to heaven on a horse?

 

Prophet mohamed ride to heaven with something which we dont know what was exaclty

But even if it was a horse

WOuldnt you think that god is able to make horses fly ?

or you underestimate the power of god who created everything on earth ?



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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 6:10pm
Shery - You wrote: "WOuldnt you think that god is able to make horses fly ?"

Well, that is exactly what I wrote, isn't it? "Didn't Mohammed fly to heaven on a horse?" Isn't that exactly what I wrote? How do you come to the conclusion, from reading that statement, it means I underestimate the power of God to provide for a horse to fly?

Perhaps you were just being suspicious and thought I was making fun. But I don't see how, since I was making a direct simple question to Israfil about it. And, in fact, we still have not established the citation of whether or not I am mistaken in this understanding.
It sort of makes my head spin....

I do remember someplace he talks about seeing people down in hell, and most of them were women. Maybe thats included on his trip to heaven, as sort of a preview of after death? Then he came back and told the story?

But pay no more heed to me. It is late and I am grumpy. Better spirits in the morning. I will keep an open eye for flying horses.....



Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 6:13pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Sherry,

Please don't be offended by my 'criticizm'. I worked several decades for the United States General Accountability Office, and it was one of my jobs to analyze our own reports.

The authors would actually take a ruler and mark off individual sentences, or sometime larger blocks of texts in a draft report. These would have citations supporting their veracity hand written on the left hand side. I would then review the evidence cited and determine if it was good enough evidence before presenting the report to the public.

Very tedious, and often times contentious, but important work. My first report like this was one on whether the US should convert to the metric system. The Controler General asked us to do the report because, I think, he believed it was a good idea to convert, though he was scrupulous and never said so.

We quickly determined it probably was not such a good idea to mandate any sort of conversion, and that is what was eventually reported. Just not enough evidence to suport the value of actually doing it, and plenty of negative evidence as well.

 

Trust me I wont get offended I faces worse than your critisize 10times

 

TO be quiet honest with you , your english is hard for me sometimes to understand it

and IF you are here looking for the truth behind islam and you think to convert so you need to get along with people who are qualified to introduce islam in the right way

I m not qualified and many many here are not too

You need to communicate with some1 who is able to define everything

which I m not that educated in islam and also my english is poor

so I wouldnt be able to deliver the right idea or explanation which I might misslead you

Also I think you maybe living in USA ?

and you maybe have heard about JAmes Schall

and You maybe also right that evidence is a very good thing to conveince people

My personal theory of the antichrist maybe dont have lots of evidence

but my heart told me that the antichrist or his servant exist all over the world

and probably james schall is one of them ot the antichrist himself

about Judas theory I think I m quiet sure of it

after reading many theories I got with the conclusion that if the mission antichrist mission to misslead people on whom is the real god

then I think the most largest religion which is christianity are praying to the person who been crusified

and according to islam jesus was never crusified

So who been crusified ? and how come they couldnt find his body after 3 days from his death ?

Has no explanation but the person who been crusified was the antichrist

and this is the price that the antichrist paid for betraying jesus

he been torture and he lost his eyes

that is why prophet mohamed gives us a hint that OUR GOD CANT BE ONE EYES PERSON

And as long that most of the christian now even believe that judas was a victim and he has his own book that been found in ( egypt ) nag hammadi

then Judas was the antichrist and he escaped with mary magedeline and he got children and son on

Cuz a prophet wouldnt never run away with a ( whore ) but antichrist would wants a sinner to get from her his race

the satanic race

I m sorry for christian is that sound very offensive

But we dont believe that jesus was crusified so

Who you are praying for ? the man on the cross ? who is he ?

and if you also compare islam, christianity and judaism

you would find that judaism and islam more similar to eachother than christianity

islam and judaism both have kosher food , circumsize man , you dont eat pigs ... etc,,,

but christianity almost allowed every single forbidden thing in all other religion sent by god

Also if we relate that to the number of the beast according to christian books 666

IN 1969 in NY the gays pride parade was started in NY to be spreaded on the whole world ....

You can see that churches allow to gay to get married in the name of freedom

SO you allow a forbidden action to happen in the house of god

feel free to write me back ...

 



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Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 11 September 2006 at 6:22pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Shery - You wrote: "WOuldnt you think that god is able to make horses fly ?"

Well, that is exactly what I wrote, isn't it? "Didn't Mohammed fly to heaven on a horse?" Isn't that exactly what I wrote? How do you come to the conclusion, from reading that statement, it means I underestimate the power of God to provide for a horse to fly?

Perhaps you were just being suspicious and thought I was making fun. But I don't see how, since I was making a direct simple question to Israfil about it. And, in fact, we still have not established the citation of whether or not I am mistaken in this understanding.
It sort of makes my head spin....

I do remember someplace he talks about seeing people down in hell, and most of them were women. Maybe thats included on his trip to heaven, as sort of a preview of after death? Then he came back and told the story?

But pay no more heed to me. It is late and I am grumpy. Better spirits in the morning. I will keep an open eye for flying horses.....

if the man did invent a plane to fly

you really dont think that god could make a horse fly ?

and yes you are talking about Isra and miraj

and again you shall ask some1 who is very well educated in this matter

 

and about those woman that prophet mohamed saw ...

Oh yes I think that could be very very true

Look around you how many naked woman who strip all over the world

In one song you see 1 man and 30 woman naked dancing behind him

So why not .. I think also that is because that woman are more than men ,,, I mean that there s much woman than men ...

So maybe that make sence ,,

In egypt for every man he can have 5 woman because numbers of woman is too much more than the number of men in egypt

that is why many woman dont get marry ...



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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 12 September 2006 at 4:36am
Shery

I understand your English better then you understand mine, so I must be more carefull. I agree Judaism (Orthodox, not Reform) is closer to Islam then Christianity.

Christianity does not have divine law, other then the ten commandments. Accordingly, we adjust laws to accomodate the times. For instance, we no longer need to call witnesses to determinge who raped an underage girl. We use DNA. I think Sharia Law requires four male Muslim wittnesses.

Perhaps under Sharia Law DNA counts the same as four Muslim witnesses if a Muslim does the test?? Can you find that out for me?

Incidentally, you have an interesting script in your posts. Is somesthing like Hindi?


Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 12 September 2006 at 9:38am

Quote:

The Councel of Nicea in the fourth century CE sorted through dozens of texts - gospels and otherwise, and selected those now in the new testament. That is really the beginning of organized and standardized Christianity.

EJDavid,

As a side note, could you please provide a source?  I do know that this is commonly asserted, or thought, but you might be interested to review this page, by the competent Roger Pearse, wherein, as I understand, he largely deconstructs the notion that the pivotal Council of Nicea involved itself with selecting the books of the canon, or New Testament.

Thanks.

Serv

Ref:   http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html



Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 12 September 2006 at 9:58am

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Shery

I understand your English better then you understand mine, so I must be more carefull. I agree Judaism (Orthodox, not Reform) is closer to Islam then Christianity.

Christianity does not have divine law, other then the ten commandments. Accordingly, we adjust laws to accomodate the times. For instance, we no longer need to call witnesses to determinge who raped an underage girl. We use DNA. I think Sharia Law requires four male Muslim wittnesses.

Perhaps under Sharia Law DNA counts the same as four Muslim witnesses if a Muslim does the test?? Can you find that out for me?

Incidentally, you have an interesting script in your posts. Is somesthing like Hindi?

 

Script is in arabic and from koran

so please dont mock as long as I m respecting you and answering you all your questions ,,

There s a verses when Prophet noah said to his people :

Surah Hud verses 38 to 49

I hope you would learn something from this verses

and your english is difficult cuz you chose to make it difficult

I m positive you can make it easier for me and clarify what you want for me

 

38. Forthwith he (starts) constructing the Ark: Every time that the chiefs of his people passed by him, they threw ridicule on him. He said: "If ye ridicule us now, we (in our turn) can look down on you with ridicule likewise!

39. "But soon will ye know who it is on whom will descend a penalty that will cover them with shame,- on whom will be unloosed a penalty lasting:"

40. At length, behold! there came Our command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth! We said: "Embark therein, of each kind two, male and female, and your family - except those against whom the word has already gone forth,- and the Believers." but only a few believed with him.

41. So he said: "Embark ye on the Ark, In the name of Allah, whether it move or be at rest! For my Lord is, be sure, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful!"

42. So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains, and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest): "O my son! embark with us, and be not with the unbelievers!"

43. The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water." Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy! "And the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood.

44. Then the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water, and O sky! Withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: "Away with those who do wrong!"

45. And Noah called upon his Lord, and said: "O my Lord! surely my son is of my family! and Thy promise is true, and Thou art the justest of Judges!"

46. He said: "O Noah! He is not of thy family: For his conduct is unrighteous. So ask not of Me that of which thou hast no knowledge! I give thee counsel, lest thou act like the ignorant!"

47. Noah said: "O my Lord! I do seek refuge with Thee, lest I ask Thee for that of which I have no knowledge. And unless thou forgive me and have Mercy on me, I should indeed be lost!"

48. The word came: "O Noah! Come down (from the Ark) with peace from Us, and blessing on thee and on some of the peoples (who will spring) from those with thee: but (there will be other) peoples to whom We shall grant their pleasures (for a time), but in the end will a grievous penalty reach them from Us."

49. Such are some of the stories of the unseen, which We have revealed unto thee: before this, neither thou nor thy people knew them. So persevere patiently: for the End is for those who are righteous.

-------

About the DNA

Atcually what you dont understand that when 4 witness would wintness that a woman and men slept together that would lead them for flog

and the 4 wintness in the condition of fornication ,,,

According to the DNA subject

I will copy and paste some articles I have google

and I did read and I like them and I would like you to read them too

AS I believe that I m not qualified to answer from my head because i m not that educated in quoran ...

Origin of man in Islam: Creation or Evolution

ISLAM EVOLUTION CREATION

The Christian Bible says that Adam & Eve were both created here on Earth, less than 10,000 years ago. The Quran says that Adam & Eve were created in Heaven, and NOT on Earth. When they disobeyed God, He expelled them from Heaven, down to Earth. The Quran does not say when this happened. Also the Quran does not say whether Adam & Eve were physically transported from Heaven to Earth, or just their souls were put into the already living homo sapiens.

Muslims believe that souls are assigned to humans 40 days after the human inception. The Quran says that angels retrieve human souls on two occasions. One occasion is when humans die. The other occasion is every time humans fall asleep. When humans wakeup, the angels release those souls back to them:

(Quran 39.42) It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that did not die, during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back, but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed. Verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.

So, according to the Quran, humans can be alive, breathing, with fully functional bodies (hence perfect DNA), but still without souls.

Homo sapiens had the same bodies and DNA as humans, but what about their souls? Were the souls of the first humans (Adam & Eve) put into those evolved homo sapiens? To answer this question, we need more information about souls and spirits. But Allah clearly bans all information about souls and spirits:

(Quran 17.85) And they ask you about the Spirit, say: "The Spirit concerns only my Lord: The knowledge of which only a little is communicated to you"

So all the information that will answer whether or not the souls of the first humans were put into homo sapiens, is banned. Muslims don�t venture into this topic simply because God ordered them not to.

However, this is not the case concerning animals. The Quran agrees with science that all life started in water, and not on dry land:

(Quran 24.45) And Allah has created every animal from water; of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills: for verily Allah has power over all things.

So the Quran agrees with science on the evolution of animals. But for humans, the Quran stops short of answering whether it was transportation from heaven or just homo sapiens with human souls.

DNA research point to the later scenario; but why couldn�t God use for Adam & Eve the same DNA as homo sapiens? Isn�t this DNA of His own creation in the first place? And how difficult is it to copy?



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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 8:26am
Shery - Thanks for all the work!

My difficult writing? My job 25 years: write for educated English. I do not make hard on purpose. This paragraph is best can do. Took five times long then first time. My appologies.... but is good thing try.

Last words take three minutes choose. First write: "In fact, it was a good litterary exercise!" Those words in brain before typing.

As for DNA. You know Sharia Experts? Maybe you ask does DNA meets Sharia requirement for evidence? Thank you for your help! I ALMOST wrote "Thank you for your assistance!".





Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 9:07am

.



Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Hanan Hanan wrote:

Shery wrote: so please dont mock as long as I m respecting you and answering you all your questions ,,

Sister,

You should not feel insulted, although it was exactly what he intended to do. You should be commended for your excellent command of the english language. I also speak english as a second language and when someone mocks me I tell them: "As soon as you spreak MY language as good as I speak YOURS, then I will allow you to correct/mock me."

ejdavid's problem is that he can't refute or perhaps even understand most of what you're telling him, he therefore wants to distract with personal attacks. This happens here quite frequently. Not everyone is as educated as you are, and  I read your posts with interest because much of what you say is new to me too.

Please continue to write.

Waasalam

 

Dear Hanan

your words means a lot to me

and from people religious as you , and I was very much impressed of what you write about prophet mohamed and many other religious issue

I feel so proud to hear from you that I m educated person

I consider you and the people here are very educated and I m very proud that there s muslims educated as you .( mashallah )

and I m very proud that you are welcoming me here  

hamdulilah

Dont worry I have met worse than this guy on internet

I fight anyone against islam and against Arab in general

even if I hated the way that our leaders are ruling our countries

that wouldnt makes me turn against them , cuz I wont let ( the plotters ) reach their aims

Inshallah I will try to write things ( i hope it interest everyone and be also beneficial for everyone) inshallah

 

Salam alikom wa rahmet allah.



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Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 10:18am

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Shery - Thanks for all the work!

My difficult writing? My job 25 years: write for educated English. I do not make hard on purpose. This paragraph is best can do. Took five times long then first time. My appologies.... but is good thing try.

Last words take three minutes choose. First write: "In fact, it was a good litterary exercise!" Those words in brain before typing.

As for DNA. You know Sharia Experts? Maybe you ask does DNA meets Sharia requirement for evidence? Thank you for your help! I ALMOST wrote "Thank you for your assistance!".

 

ejdavid

No problem you seems that you really worked in education cuz i did hate all my teachers !

i like to clarify something here

this topic is talking about antichrist

and I wished that you talk about this matter with me instead of DNA

cuz I m not expert or ( shikha )

But defenitely you did hear about ( fr james schall ) cuz he is very well known in USA .

and georgetown university is very well known in USA on the politics role in the white house and the government

so Please I like to ask you to stick on the topic

and if you like to discuss DNA please open a new thread with it

And I might come and read what the islamic expert says about it

cuz again I m not expert and so wrong when some1 is ( ignorant in something ) and he would talk about it

cuz I m ight sound rediculious and i would never explain as some1 expert

anyhow you are still welcome from my side to ask me whatever you like if I can answer it

and if you are really interested to gather more information about islam

why dont you come over here in egypt and try some experts who can argue you

and if you are not conveinced consider it as a vacation and return to USA

Best regards professor feel free to ask whatever you want as long as there s respect between eachother

you came ( supposely ) from the side of the world that they call it ( CIVILIZED ) and ( I came from the third world ) as you call it

So I dont think that I need to define for you ( RESPECT BETWEEN NATION )

because first you are a teacher , 2 you came from USA ( THE COUNTRY OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH ,3 you are the one who killing dozen of people on the name of democracy

 

So please practice some of what you claim ,,, and try to deal with muslims with some respect cuz we dont mind your question

but the way you are asking with it

Either you are here to learn and to increase your education level

either you are here to waste some times and mocking from other ,,, and you can do that in your own county cuz you have a lot of stuff you can mock at

 

 I been there and we also can discuss that

 

Best wishes

shery





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Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 11:34am

More information about Fr james schall attached with a picture

 

Father Schall is a Professor in the Department of Government at Georgetown University. He is the author of numerous books, including: Another Sort of Learning (Ignatius Press, 1988); At the Limits of Political Philosophy (Catholic University of America Press, 1996); Reason, Revelation, and the Foundations of Political Philosophy (LSU Press, 1987); Idylls and Rambles (Ignatius Press, 1994); and Schall on Chesterton: Timely Essays on Timeless Paradoxes (Catholic University of America Press, 2000).

ISI Books

 

James V. Schall, S. J.

  Georgetown University, DC, 20057-1200

   http://www.morec.com/schall - www.moreC.com/schall    � 28 February 2003

 

BELLOC ON THE �APPARENTLY UNCONVERTIBLE� RELIGION

                   �Islam is apparently unconvertible.  The missionary efforts made by great Catholic orders which have been occupied in trying to turn Mohammedans into Christians for nearly 400 years have everywhere wholly failed.  We have in some places driven the Mohammedan master out and freed his Christian subjects from Mohammedan control, but we have had hardly any effect in converting individual Mohammedans....�

                                                                                                                                            � Hilaire Belloc, The Great Heresies, 1938.1

                   �Muhammad�s monotheism began, no doubt, as a rejection of paganism; yet it was highly positive.  It was, as he never ceased repeating, the monotheism of Israel.  The god of Islam was Yahweh, without those truths about Him revealed by Christ. ... The Qur�~n denies the Incarnation:  �God is one, eternal.  He did not beget and was unbegotten� (Qur�~n, 112.3).  For Muhammad there was no redeemer, no need for redemption, no original sin.�

             � J. Kritzeck/C. Wilde, �Islam,� New Catholic Encyclopedia (2d Edition, 2003), V. 7, 608.

 

                   �But there is no hiding the fact that bin Laden, his lieutenants, and his foot soldiers have repeatedly stated their aim to impose their values of Islam on, first, the Muslim world and, then, the rest of the world.  They want each country to accept or be forced into submission to their version of Islamic Shari�a law....  Their public statements, their strategy and recruitment, the notes and prayers left by the airplane hijackers, all show a deep religious commitment.  They do not lament inequality; decry poverty, or call for democracy.  They do not rant about globalization or consumerism or capitalism.  They explicitly name and target Christianity, Judaism, and moderate Islam.  By all means let us call this inauthentic religion, perverted religion, hijacked religion.  But, at the cost of blinding ourselves, let us never forget that it is religion.�

                                                                                                                                                                        

I d like to add a note here ( see they are all repeat what they read about james schall and other christian politics who works in george town university

and that is what we face everyday in all forums they only talk about that islam was to dominate them and apply sharia ... I want you to read carefully what james schall said about islam and I would like you to check more about GT university and JS

On the Term "Islamo-Fascism"
| Fr. James V. Schall, S.J. | August 15, 2006


I.   The war in which we are currently engaged confuses us, in part because many will not admit it is a war. We do not know what to call it. Nor do we know what to call the self-declared enemy who has been attacking us in one form or another for some twenty-five years, ever more visibly and dangerously since 9/11, 2001, with subsequent events in Afghanistan, Iraq, Spain, London, Bombay, Bali, Paris, Lebanon, and Israel.

There are those who insist that it is not a "war" at all but perhaps, at best, a police issue -- no big problem. Others contend that it is a result of American or Western expansionism so that its cure is simply for us to return to our frontiers and be content with what we have. If we do this withdrawal, every threat will immediately cease at this point. In another view it is due to poverty and oppression, even though most of the perpetrators of the war are quite rich. Yet another interpretation is that this turmoil stems from a very small minority with no relation to national or religious origins, a kind of floating international brigade of bandits, like the Mafia, out for their own profit and glory. The variants on these themes are almost infinite.

What names should we use that will accurately define and designate the cause? Calling things by their right names is the first requirement of reality; refusing to do so, the first cause of confusion, if not defeat. At first, we were told that the war is against something called "terrorism." Its perpetrators were logically called "terrorists." It was considered "hate-language" to call them anything else. However, we find listed on no map a place called "Terroritoria," where said "terrorists" otherwise dwell in peace plotting our demise. It has no capital, no military uniform for its mostly invisible troops, no rules of combat. In this designation, some difficult ensues when we try to identify or designate a group that just wants to "terrorize" others, as if that is an explanation. Some may like to travel or to fish for pleasure; they like "terror" for terror's sake, just a question of taste.

Of course, this membership in a supposed organization called "Terror International" is not what the known "terrorists" claim for themselves. They look on this designation with contempt since it misses the whole nature of what they think that they are doing. But the term "terrorism" seems temporarily useful because it avoids the politics of naming more carefully just who these actual men (and women) are who carry out these, to us, seemingly senseless bombings. Are they so "senseless" after all? That is, do they have their own rationale and are we intellectually willing to face what it is?

All along, as a chief tactic of the "terrorists," we have had "suicide bombers." "Suicide bombing" is, thus far, the main delivery system of the "terrorists." It is remarkably effective in creating immediate chaos. We have almost forgotten how used we have become to this utterly corrupt practice that undermines, and seeks to undermine, the very basis of any possible civilization opposed to it. Those who practice "suicide bombing" (it is a once in a lifetime occupation, to be sure) call themselves "martyrs." They are, when successful, treated as heroes by other "terrorists" and their admirers. Thus, the same action is called in one political zone "terrorism," while, in another, it is called "martyrdom." What do words mean?

To perform this switch of meaning, of course, the "terrorists" had also to call the "victims" of "suicide bombers," not innocent objects of terrorism, as we call them, but guilty opponents of the cause for which "terrorism" really stands, its religious mission in the world. Even when people of one's own religion are killed, they are said, theologically, like the "suicide bombers" themselves, to have been done a favor in reaching heaven more quickly.

So what language do we use to speak of this horrendous situation? We also hear used the word "Islamicist," or "Islamism." We hear "Jihadists," or holy warriors. We are struck with the fierceness with which the "terrorists" themselves reject being called "fascists" or, what they also are, "terrorists." They sense that the term, "Islamo-fascism," or any of its variants, undermines or disparages what, in their own minds, is the legitimacy or morality of their "cause." We have here an issue that forces us to consider the very roots of the "terrorists'" understanding of their own motivations.

The fact that almost all the "terrorists," no matter their country of birth, have Muslim origins, moreover, brings us up against our own ecumenical or liberal theories, which do not allow us to "profile" or stigmatize or even accuse of bad motives those who do carry out the killings. The argument sometimes goes: All religions are "peaceful." Islam is a religion. Therefore, Islam is peaceful. This is not an historical syllogism that explains the actual record of the expansion of Islam from its beginning in Arabia till its reaching Tours in the eighth century and Vienna in the sixteenth. Nor does it explain the violence and law used within Muslim states to prevent any expression of faith or philosophy that does not conform to their own understanding of the Koran. This earlier expansion was almost exclusively by military conquest, often extremely brutal, against Christian, Persian, Hindu, or other lands.


II.  More recently, the term "Islamo-fascism" has been coined in an effort to describe the source and nature of "terrorism." I want to examine the appropriateness of this term, as I think it serves to get at the core of the problem. Is "Islamo-fascism" really accurate for what the reality is? Initially, the term obviously is not a product of Islamic thinkers thinking of themselves, though some more recent Muslim thinkers have studied the Marxists and the fascists. No Imam in Iran or Egypt, however, suddenly wakes up in the middle of the night and shouts, "That's it! I am an Islamo-fascist; why did I not think of that before?" No pious youth in Mecca reads the Collected Works of Benito Mussolini and muses to himself, "Yes, this is what Mohammed was about in the Koran."

Rather the term comes from Western politicians and writers. They are desperately seeking a word or expression that they can use, one that avoids suggesting that the war in fact has religious roots, as the people who are doing the attacking claim it does. To say that war has "religious" roots violates a code, a constitutional principle. Wars are political not religious. Therefore, their explanation must be political, must arise from modern political science. Hobbes, "where are you when we need you?" Religion cannot be a serious motivation, especially over the centuries. We must look elsewhere. Only social "science" can explain this phenomenon.

"Fascism," in this context, thus becomes a handy term. We thought that we were rid of that menace after World War II, of course. Compared to Marxism and Nazism, it was, in fact, the mildest of the ideologies of our recent time. Many of its features, originally designed for other situations, can appear to apply to what is going on in our "terrorist"-infected world. This happy analytic result, it is said, justifies us in joining "Islam" and "fascism" together in a way that apparently absolves most of Islam of anything to do with the problem or any responsibility for Muslims doing anything about it. At the same time, it demonstrates the usefulness of western political science in understanding modern movements. If science cannot understand something, it cannot be understood, goes the accepted wisdom.


If for no other reason than the sake of clarity, let us think our way further through this murky issue of what to call what we are dealing with. We have to call it something because it is something. It will not "go away" peacefully any time soon. Aristotle indicated that the first issue in political things is to describe accurately the nature of a regime under scrutiny. What exactly is it? This seemingly simple explanatory effort can itself be quite dangerous, quite personally dangerous, as Muslims who question their own roots soon find out. Many powerful, even many weak, governments do not like to be called what they scientifically are. Moreover, a distinction can be found between what some political thing is and what we are allowed to call it because of our own philosophical or political positions. The political control of language, as George Orwell suggested, is itself an instrument of tyranny. Moreover, such a thing as political philosophy exists even apart from any actual regime and what it allows us to call it.

We should by now be used to totalitarian regimes insisting on calling themselves "republics" or "democracies" and punishing anyone who refuses to accept a government's own definition of itself. Today, the accurate use of language, apparently something guaranteed in our amendments, is a minefield. We have something like "hate crimes" whose effect is in fact to prevent us from naming exactly what we are dealing with. Philosophy in these circumstances is driven underground. The phenomenon of philosophy being driven underground was, as Leo Strauss once remarked, a major issue within medieval Islamic philosophy.


III.   The Washington Times recently (August 12, 2006) published a useful and insightful editorial,
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20060811-090001-2970r.htm - "It's Fascism," that I will use to comment on this nomenclature. First, the editorial points out the gradual change in President Bush's designation of the enemy. He, with Mr. Blair, began using the word "terrorist," but more recently he has used the designation "fascist." "Is this a legitimate use?" the editorial asks. Fascism, it continues, is a "political philosophy" that exalts a group or nation over the individual. It could also imply a religion. Fascism promoted central rule, subordinated individuals to "political leadership." The term thus can legitimately be used to designate those responsible for the recent "terrorist" understandings of themselves.

The editorial identifies groups like "al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas" and other organizations as "fascist," that is, they operate in effect on these principles. "Non-Muslims" are regarded as "a lesser breed of expendable or contemptible dhimmis and infidels." Social and economic restrictions are placed on every group that does not conform to the ruling power. The editorial says, "this is not mainstream Islam.... It is a corruption of the faith."

Evidently, The Washington Times was among the first to use the designation "Islamofascism." It was related to a German-born Muslim scholar, Kalid Duran, in an interview about his book, An Introduction to Islam for Jews, in The Washington Times. In spite of Muslim organization protests, the editorial maintained that its use of the term was simply an accurate description of what, with proper distinctions, these people did. "Islamofascism speaks for itself. It is a real phenomenon." It is not illegal, immoral, or even impolite to call it what, judging from its actions, it is.

The question I ask, in the light of this case for the use of the term "Islamofascism," is this: does this term clarify or obscure the issue? Let me propose a thought process. Recently, a friend told me of reading a report from London about how one of the "terrorists" designated to blow up a transatlantic flight was to be accompanied by his wife and child. The explosive was to be in the baby's bottle. The man was willing to blow up himself, his wife, and his young child in the cause for which these ten or so planes were to be destroyed by similar methods.

Now this proposal, in itself, strikes us as simply horrendous, insane, mad. Moreover, let us suppose that the plot was not detected and was successful. Within the course of several hours, analogous to the relative success of 9/11, ten planes with a total of, say, two or three thousand passengers flying from London to New York had been destroyed. What would the reaction of this news been in Tehran or Cairo or other Muslim capitals? I would like to be wrong on this, but judging from previous instances, I greatly fear that, in too many cases, there would have been cheering, not horror. This heinous act would have been interpreted -- not by all but by many -- as a stunning success and a blow at the great Satan. We would probably have heard from the President of Iran or Osama ben Laden himself or someone of that level that more was in store, that the final day of reckoning is nearer.

What do these speculations have to do with the term "Islamofascism?" When 9/11 first happened, I recall commenting on this very issue, this time in the case of the young men who plotted, planned, and carried out the destruction of the World Trade Center. What, in their own minds, did they think they were doing? Did they think they were executing an "Islamofascist" plot? Hardly. Did they think they were in it for money? Surely not. They were in it for the glory that comes from what they saw to be the "brave" act of destroying the symbol of the great emery, his communication center. This act would go down in sacred history as the first step. Other successes would surely follow.

What was in it for them? Exactly what their religion said was in it. They were doing the work of Allah. The world could not know peace until it was subjugated to his rule as laid down in the holy book. The advance had been stymied for hundreds of years, set back, but now a new, glorious opportunity arose. Young men, willing to die, flocked to the cause. There is a sense of purpose, the reestablishment of the Caliphate, the subjugation and elimination of the enemies, the Christians, the Jews, the Hindus, the Chinese. Not all would be eliminated, of course. It is a religion of peace. All would be "converted," except perhaps for a few insignificant ones. This is why Islam is in the world.

But, one might protest, are there no rules about means? And Islam is said to want to achieve these world goals "peacefully." My only point in following this question of the use of the word "Islamofascism" is that it does not describe what these men think they are doing. Nor does it help that some thus far ineffective Muslim apologists do not think that the term describes what the religion means. It is what these men think and evidently practice. What has to take place, in response, is some more adequate confrontation with the incoherence of this claim to world-subjection to Allah as an inner-worldly political mission powered by a quasi-mystical devotion to its cause. In this sense, in the minds of the ones carrying out the attacks, it is religious, not ideological, in origin.

A somewhat bewildered American President and British Prime Minister have understood, whereas many politicians have not, that there is a real war and a real enemy. They have been prudent in their use of language, catering to differing usages both in western democracies and in the Muslim world. Their general approach has been to seek to isolate the "terrorists" from the rest of the Muslim world. This world itself has been caught up for centuries in a stagnant and almost totally controlled system usually under the power of a military that has served to sit on top of those religious radicals who would tear up the world. What the President thus has sought to do is finally to allow and encourage what he considers to be the great majority of Muslim citizens to be able to participate in a culture that is not dominated by such motives that burst forth frequently from within Islam to employ terror.

Just as The Washington Times proposes "Islamofascism" to describe what these missionary groups do to further their cause, so the President proposes "democracy" as the alternative way of life that would both mitigate the fanaticism and allow the majority to escape into their own self-ruling states. One drawback of this solution is often the internal moral condition of the democracies themselves. The "terrorists" never tire of pointing to this inner corruption that often manifests itself within our own souls. So there is a kind of war on two fronts that comes forth from thinking about "Islamofascism" -- that envisioned by the "terrorists" themselves and that of the alternative they see in us which justifies, in their own minds, their violent ways.

Words, I am sure, have to be themselves used "wisely." It is not always easy to describe or hear what we actually are. The root causes of "suicide bombers" and the attacks of the "terrorists" are not primarily in western political philosophy. The "suicide bombers," while they sometimes learn to use sophisticated weapons, have shown the folly of much discussion about nuclear weapons -- the weapons are not the problem, but who has them. Moreover, as 9/11 showed, modern civilization is so complex than even the simplest acts like flying a plane into a building are as lethal as anything we can conceive. No one doubts, however, that these "terrorists" would use more sophisticated means if they could manage it.

In the meantime, one or two potential terrorists have made everyone of us take our shoes off or empty our bottles before we fly anywhere in the world. The cost of their even trying unsuccessfully to blow us up is itself astronomical. The first question remains, not "How do we protect themselves from their threats?" We must ask that, of course. But the first question has to be, "Why in the first place do they still want to threaten and, yes, conquer us?" I suspect we cannot answer this latter question primarily for reasons within our own political philosophy.



http://www.morec.com/schall/">Fr. James V. Schall, S.J. , is Professor of Political Philosophy at Georgetown University.

He is the author of numerous books on social issues, spirituality, culture, and literature including http://www.ignatius.com/ViewProduct.aspx?SID=1&Product_ID=31&AFID=12& - Another Sort of Learning , http://www.ignatius.com/ViewProduct.aspx?SID=1&Product_ID=46&AFID=12& - Idylls and Rambles , On the Unseriousness of Human Affairs: Teaching, Writing, Playing, Believing, Lecturing, Philosophizing, Singing, Dancing, and A Student's Guide to Liberal Learning
.

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I want you to notice that every single word that Bush says it may originaly came from this ( george town university and most probably from ( fr james schall)

 

Let me give you also some information about george town university and the American gov

 

 

February 8, 2005
Fr. James Schall Explains Liberal Learning at Christendom College

Fr. James SchallRenowned professor and author Fr. James V. Schall, S.J., delivered a lecture entitled "Liberal Learning"on February 7 at Christendom College as part of the College's Major Speakers Program.

Fr. Schall, a member of the California Province of the Society of Jesus and a professor of political theory at Georgetown University, began his lecture by explaining what is "liberal" about liberal learning or liberal education.



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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 11:57am
Hanan - You wrote to Shery: "I also speak english as a second language and when someone [ejdavid] mocks me..."

You foolish foolish woman. I did not mock Shery. I treated he exactly as an equal, and provided her with constructive criticism to improve her ability to present her (obvious) intellectual capacities in stronger way.

You are a dissapointment.




Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 12:00pm
Shery

You asked me to stick to subject, and point taken. Perhaps will start DNA thread. Not read your other posts yet but will. And this: Please pray for Hanan....


Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 12:21pm
Shery - George Bush not James Schall puppet. On 9/11, he wake up. He believe what enemy say.

1) Laden: "Religious duty to kill Americans where ever you find them." Now Ladin no longer run Afghanistan.

2) Saydamn: "9/11 a good thing." Saydam no longer run Iraq.

3)???


Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 12:38pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Hanan - You wrote to Shery: "I also speak english as a second language and when someone [ejdavid] mocks me..."

You foolish foolish woman. I did not mock Shery. I treated he exactly as an equal, and provided her with constructive criticism to improve her ability to present her (obvious) intellectual capacities in stronger way.

You are a dissapointment.


 

Dj please as a civilized man coming from USA treat woman as they should be treated

or what is the difference between you and a barbarian man?

When I said that I dont speak a good english that doesnt weaken from my speech or give impression that I m a weak person

cuz I m very far from being a "weak " if you know me personally you wouldnt never thought to chose the word ( in a strong way )

because Its obvious that I m not a weak person

and lack of knowledge it could be increased by time , so you dont say about some1 who is trying to learn everyday that he cant introduce him/herself in a intelligent way ...

 

anyhow please please please again we are not here to fight

lets deal with eachother as civilized people

as what you can see that this thread is about the antichrist

and I m accusing james schall to be the antichrist and I even sent him several emails telling him that I know that he is the antichrist

 

I would like to hear any comments about that , If you dont think he is the antichrist please discuss that ,,,

 

if you may think that what the revelation said about the antichrist ( that he would have power and politics position and they accused the vatican to be the antichrist in some of the interpertation of the revelation and the woman and they define woman as a church )

 

If you are familiar with what I m saying please discuss this matter

I would like to hear the opposite christian opinion

if you like to talk about islam lets open a thread , and I will open it myself we will call it islam ,, and lets discuss all what you wish there

but here please please stick with the topic

and respect woman ,, cuz as far as I know that woman have too much rights in USA than the middle east

So show me some of what I hear in here ....

I just hear many things about USA but when it comes to real you always act oppositly

 

You still welcome and I know you dont mean to himuliate hanan

cuz defenitely she is a very very very good lady and she meant nothing wrong ,,,, so dont be offended please .....

lets discuss issues as a growing up people .

thank you



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Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 12:50pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Shery - George Bush not James Schall puppet. On 9/11, he wake up. He believe what enemy say.

1) Laden: "Religious duty to kill Americans where ever you find them." Now Ladin no longer run Afghanistan.

2) Saydamn: "9/11 a good thing." Saydam no longer run Iraq.

3)???

 

ok lets talk about GWB

he is a puppet and he actually dont understand what does mean to be a president of USA

and he always screw it with muslims when in all his speeches

first he said ( CRUSADES ) and lately he said ( MUSLIMS FASICM )

 

Either he has no brain to say such a statement or he is not qualified to be a president of united state of america !

he claims a holy war against muslims and when ( president of USA ) says that ( defenitely we will take it as serious matter )

( no matter if he did apologies after that )

 

Also any president would come he would just be a puppet for the crusaders .. that is why they threaten algore to retreat in front of bush

and killed Junior Kenndy with his wife and children in the airplace accident ( and wonder why there wasnt a international investigation on their death as they did on rafik el harriri assassination ) !

cuz CIA when they wants to make things appear as accident they are too clever to manage that

and when they wanted to appear as a terrorist attack ( as harriri death ) they can also manage that and they can find those ( muslims who will do the job for them )

we have to bear in mind that all muslims cant be categorize as muslims

So when we find that evidence is all tells that muslims the one who did those crimes ,,, we shall know that is the truth some muslims were part of this terrorism

but the one behind it most of the time is ( CIA )

 

Also note something

Most of the time they try to conveince muslims that the real dangerous and our real enemy is mossad

and all the conspiracy done against muslims came from jewish and mossad

 

( just remember when jewish were hidding their religion cuz they fear death )

without crusaders support and antichrist army support those jewish wouldnt dare to do all what they are doing to the islamic world

 

( dont take it personal that I m attacking christianity )

I believe that judaism and christianity religions came from god

But they were corrupted and the most that been corrupted is ( chistianity ) who worship a statue on the cross

we still ( muslims ) believe that parts of the old books are real

that is why I spent time to read them

and I m sure that I have learned a lot ...  I take the reasonable parts that could have relation with koran ...

So you have to understand when I attack the antichrist and the crusaders ,,, i have nothing against the chistians who has no aims to hurts muslims or islam ....

you have your religion and we have ours

and we may live together that way ( if you stop killing us )

till god judge between us ( god willing )

Feel free to reply me back

 



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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 12:59pm
Shery - You wrote: "Dj please as a civilized man coming from USA treat woman as they should be treated or what is the difference between you and a barbarian man?"

ANSWER: Hanan is a foolish foolish person and THAT is what she deserves, whether man or woman. We Americans ARE barbarians in that respect. She gets no special treatment from me. This is a VERY big difference between us and the East. It is not entirely a good thing, as you point out.

You also wrote: "When I said that I dont speak a good english that doesnt weaken from my speech or give impression that I m a weak person..."

ANSWER: I wrote your English is "Fine". I understand you entirely. Obviously you are not weak. I never treated you as such.

You also wrote: "please please please again we are not here to fight."

ANSWER: Yes we are. US expect people be forceful (fight?) in discussions. Force of Arguement (like you). Not insults (like Hanan).

You also wrote: "lets deal with eachother as civilized people..."

ANSWER: OK. But I don't like it. [Joke]

JAMES SCHALL ANTICHRIST? Who knows. Many candidates....

RE: Revelations. I do not believe it. It refers to Rome (Seven heads) and Nero (the number 666). Not modern times.

You also wrote: "You still welcome and I know you dont mean to himuliate hanan..."

ANSWER: Hanan many time make fun of me. Happy to return compliment. I respect intellect, not emotions.




Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 1:28pm
Shery - OK, Talk about Bush

You wrote: "...he is a puppet and he actually dont understand what does mean to be a president of USA..."

ANSWER: Bush grew up a playboy drunk. Then he got sober and got God. You have problem with US? OK. But you have problem with Bush, not puppet. And have problem with people who elect Bush (like me). That is OK too.

You wrote: "...and he always screw it with muslims when in all his speeches...

ANSWER: This is true. He said crusade because he did not know what meant in East. In US term means hard work. Crusade against cancer etc.

Muslim Fascists: Laden and his ilk ARE Fascists. Means believe in dictatorship, and supression of dissent.

You also wrote: "...he claims a holy war against muslims..."

ANSWER: No he did not. Claims Ladin etc not represent Muslims. Claims Ladin etc use force to dominate other Muslims.

You also wrote: "...any president would come he would just be a puppet for the crusaders ..." You watch too much al Jazeera.

You also wrote: "...and killed Junior Kenndy with his wife and children in the airplace accident..." Oh Good Grief. Now you sound like Hanan.

I know about this. Kennedy inexperience IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) pilot crashed plane after dark. Happens all the time here. Many people in US have plane. Even in little mountain town where I live, half dozen people killed in own airplane. Maybe three accident three years.]

You also wrote: "...and when they wanted to appear as a terrorist attack ( as harriri death ) they can also manage that and they can find those ( muslims who will do the job for them )

ANSWER: I don't know who is Harriri. If he was the Lebanon guy, Lebanese think Syria did it. I will take their word for it.

You also wrote: "...we have to bear in mind that all muslims cant be categorize as muslims..."

ANSWER: That is true. But they say the same about you. No Pope in Islam to settle issue.

You also wrote: "...we shall know [perhaps] that is the truth some muslims were part of this terrorism..."

ANSWER: The only question: Real Muslims or Not?

You also wrote: "...but the one behind it most of the time is ( CIA )".

ANSWER: CIA not as good as you think. We wish.....

REGARDING ZIONIZM: I say: "...let the Zionists and Muslims fight to the death..." As always, the Zionists will win. So I also say. Stop attacking the bastards.


Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 1:28pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Shery - You wrote: "Dj please as a civilized man coming from USA treat woman as they should be treated or what is the difference between you and a barbarian man?"

ANSWER: Hanan is a foolish foolish person and THAT is what she deserves, whether man or woman. We Americans ARE barbarians in that respect. She gets no special treatment from me. This is a VERY big difference between us and the East. It is not entirely a good thing, as you point out.

You also wrote: "When I said that I dont speak a good english that doesnt weaken from my speech or give impression that I m a weak person..."

ANSWER: I wrote your English is "Fine". I understand you entirely. Obviously you are not weak. I never treated you as such.

You also wrote: "please please please again we are not here to fight."

ANSWER: Yes we are. US expect people be forceful (fight?) in discussions. Force of Arguement (like you). Not insults (like Hanan).

You also wrote: "lets deal with eachother as civilized people..."

ANSWER: OK. But I don't like it. [Joke]

JAMES SCHALL ANTICHRIST? Who knows. Many candidates....

RE: Revelations. I do not believe it. It refers to Rome (Seven heads) and Nero (the number 666). Not modern times.

You also wrote: "You still welcome and I know you dont mean to himuliate hanan..."

ANSWER: Hanan many time make fun of me. Happy to return compliment. I respect intellect, not emotions.


 

Dj have you heard what the POPE of vatican said about islam today ?

 

Here to all muslims

James Schall is a memeber of the chatholic church in europe

and those are the antichrist ....

vatican for europe and James schall for USA

and they are all at the end together working in a failure try to genocide islam

 

But let me tells them something as long as they are annoyed froom what i have said in all over the internet

 

You will never ever ever ever genocide islam inshallah

and ISlam will last ( god willing ) even if you didnt like it ....

God will defend HIS Words and religions even if the anti islam hated that islam raised and arise again .....

and Lets see what god hide for those who are anti islam ....

Inshallah things will change cuz muslims lately start to know that there s no way but god way ....

 

DJ .... I have to defend hanan cuz she is my sister

and even if she wasnt muslim ,,, i will defend her cuz she is a woman

as me

and woman must defend woman against man ...

cuz man shouldnt attack woman for any reason ....

 



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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 1:31pm
Shery - I am tired. Will read new post later....


Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 1:44pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Shery - OK, Talk about Bush

You wrote: "...he is a puppet and he actually dont understand what does mean to be a president of USA..."

ANSWER: Bush grew up a playboy drunk. Then he got sober and got God. You have problem with US? OK. But you have problem with Bush, not puppet. And have problem with people who elect Bush (like me). That is OK too.

 

well from what i have read that Bush were addict for drugs !

and I been in chicago in election and i heard many americans talks about that the elections in USA has no base as sometimes many people elect a person he had more votes but because something they dont understand it quietly

all of sudden they found some1 as bush won

You dont represt all the public of united state ,, others didnt elect him and they think he is a big joke ...



[/QUOTE] You wrote: "...and he always screw it with muslims when in all his speeches...

ANSWER: This is true. He said crusade because he did not know what meant in East. In US term means hard work. Crusade against cancer etc.

Muslim Fascists: Laden and his ilk ARE Fascists. Means believe in dictatorship, and supression of dissent.

You also wrote: "...he claims a holy war against muslims..."

ANSWER: No he did not. Claims Ladin etc not represent Muslims. Claims Ladin etc use force to dominate other Muslims. [/QUOTE]

actually that is not excuse ,, IS BUSH THAT IGNORANT TO NOT BE AWARE WHAT DOES CRUSADES MEANS ?

He did nt study history about richard heart of lion and salah el dine ??/

Oh that is a worse excuse than if he did know what does it mean

but anyhow he meant it and the pope of vatican did assure what Bush said about a holy war against islam ...

I have no 1% doubts that you wish that all muslims die and go to hell .... ( nothing personal ) we are just discussing ...

[/QUOTE] You also wrote: "...any president would come he would just be a puppet for the crusaders ..." You watch too much al Jazeera. [/QUOTE]  Aljazeera probably are the one who is trying to take from my opinions and i m not the one who is taking from them

cuz my opinons is bases on shery theory and not anyone else opinions or theories ...

[/QUOTE] You also wrote: "...and killed Junior Kenndy with his wife and children in the airplace accident..." Oh Good Grief. Now you sound like Hanan. [/QUOTE]

well If i sound like her that is more than just fine to me

She is muslim like me and I m very conveinced that he was killed

and I wonder if any international investigation could be done against this assassination ...



[/QUOTE] I know about this. Kennedy inexperience IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) pilot crashed plane after dark. Happens all the time here. Many people in US have plane. Even in little mountain town where I live, half dozen people killed in own airplane. Maybe three accident three years.] [/QUOTE]

yeah yeah as diana and john kennedy the first and all the politicians that you set for them scandales when they were opposite to the bush administration ...



[/QUOTE] You also wrote: "...and when they wanted to appear as a terrorist attack ( as harriri death ) they can also manage that and they can find those ( muslims who will do the job for them ) 

ANSWER: I don't know who is Harriri. If he was the Lebanon guy, Lebanese think Syria did it. I will take their word for it. [/QUOTE]

and if some elements from syria and lebanon

Well I think its time to read more about middle east so you dont attack us while you dont know nothing about what is going on here

and no not the syrian who killed harriri

helped that doesnt mean that syria is behind this assassination ...

[/QUOTE] You also wrote: "...we have to bear in mind that all muslims cant be categorize as muslims..."

ANSWER: That is true. But they say the same about you. No Pope in Islam to settle issue. [/QUOTE]

They can say what they wants ( they are the minority  )

and they good people are the majority inshallah

[/QUOTE] You also wrote: "...we shall know [perhaps] that is the truth some muslims were part of this terrorism..."

ANSWER: The only question: Real Muslims or Not? [/QUOTE]

doesnt matter if they called muslims by birth

the matter who did train them and fund them to be terrorist

and who do benefit from all this terrorism that been done in middle east and all over the world ...



[/QUOTE] You also wrote: "...but the one behind it most of the time is ( CIA )".

ANSWER: CIA not as good as you think. We wish..... [/QUOTE]

 

Defenitely they are not good , cuz they have no evidence for 11 /9 but some fake tapes to bin laden ,,

and they never upgrade from their style

and they only repeat themselves

and they are better than mossad

and mossad making fun from cia

and cia make fun from shin bet

and both think they are the best ..

and the best always die as the rest ...



[/QUOTE] REGARDING ZIONIZM: I say: "...let the Zionists and Muslims fight to the death..." As always, the Zionists will win. So I also say. Stop attacking the bastards.[/QUOTE]

 I have no problem with jewish

cuz I know if the crusades no longer exist

we and jewish and normal christians we will live in peace

and the jewish who are puppet for the vatican and the crusaders

are puppet because they have their own ambitious

and sometimes ambitious lead you for failure ,,, if you are used by others

and lets leave victory to whom god will chose ( god willing )

dont assume .... the fight didnt end yet ...

and at the end we will all die and god will judge bwteen all of us ..

 



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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 1:52pm
Shery

You believe:
1) CIA killed JFK junior.
2) Vatican and Schall want genocide of Muslims.
3) You must defend foolish Hanan because she is a woman.

ANSWER 1)JFK Jr. ran a magazine. His drunk Cousin(?)is a congressman. But you believe CIA killed the magazine guy?

ANSWER 2)There is no good business reason to genocide Muslims. First, Indonesia and Maylasia make a lot of good electronics for The West, and they don't bother anyone. (Except the occasional Maniac Bali Bomber who killed a bunch of Australians; I think he is in jail and has not become emir.)

ANSWER 3)I understand why you wish to defend Hanan.


Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 2:24pm
Sheri

RE: American Elections. We have been doing this for more then 200 years, and it really sucks. However, nobody bombed the House of Representatives when Bush won Florida. I lived in Chicago. I know for fact dead people vote. Mostly Democrat. But then, what can you expect from a dead person.

You also wrote: "...others didnt elect him and they think he is a big joke ..." Especially the dead Democrat voters. Democrats ran Florida elections. VERY mad dead Democrats didn't vote more often.

You wrote: "IS BUSH THAT IGNORANT TO NOT BE AWARE WHAT DOES CRUSADES MEANS?"
ANSWER: Yes. I sort of like that in a president.

You also wrote: "I have no 1% doubts that you wish that all muslims die and go to hell .... ( nothing personal ) we are just discussing ..."
ANSWER: Indonesian and Maylasian Muslims who make good electronics should not go to hell. Indian Call Center Muslims are another matter.

You wrote: "... [CIA has] have no evidence for 11 /9 but some fake tapes to bin laden ,,"
ANSWER: I have already acknowledged there no evidence ANY Muslims were involve. But CONCLUSIVE evidence Boy Scouts of America did it. I was a Boy Scout and I know the signs.


Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 2:46pm
To Whom It May Concern

I hereby resign from this forum thread. I was not as respectfull as I should have been, and appologize. Sometimes my emotions get the better of me. My best regards to all the participants.


Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 14 September 2006 at 3:10pm

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

To Whom It May Concern

I hereby resign from this forum thread. I was not as respectfull as I should have been, and appologize. Sometimes my emotions get the better of me. My best regards to all the participants.

resignation is so good

when we will never get to a point together ...

 



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Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 15 September 2006 at 3:35am

I always wondered why it says that the one who read ( Surah EL kahef ) ( cave ) would be save from the antichrist) massiekh el dagal sedition

I read it several times ,, till i found the answers in the first verses

4. Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, "(Allah) hath begotten a son":

5. No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying what they say is nothing but falsehood!

So why Allah chose Surah el kahef to prevent us from the sedition of messiakh el dagal ... because it tells us

that the sedition is that tells that god has no son

and he is not one

and HE is sharing HIS kingdom with a son and wife !

 

While theres a very important Surah we shall all bear it on our minds

Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4. And there is none like unto Him.

 

So now we can see it very obviously who is our real enemy

 The people who believe in this man who been crusified ( they believe in a human to be god )

cuz jesus was never been crusified

and even if he was ( and he never been ) but even if he was

he is not god and either they worshiped jesus or this man who been crusified so they did chose the wrong way and gate

Cuz jesus himself wouldnt be able to help anyone unless that god allow him ...

Surah el Ma'ada (Surah 5. The Table, The Table Spread)

116. And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. 117. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. 118. "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise." 119. Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah. That is the great salvation, (the fulfilment of all desires). 120. To Allah doth belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who hath power over all things.

 

So the last remarks that popes have said about muslims

is just what they really believe and what they hide in their hearts is much worse for us

Every single muslim should be aware its a war about ISLAM

the Crusaders have claimed from a long time ( since salah el dine )

and when they did renew their power and did unify together

they are again trying to erase islam from the earth

( this is their dream ) that will never inshallah come true .



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Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 15 September 2006 at 6:22am

.



Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 15 September 2006 at 7:21am
Originally posted by Hanan Hanan wrote:

While theres a very important Surah we shall all bear it on our minds

Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4. And there is none like unto Him.

Allahu Akbar

 

very true hannan

and also there s a very important verses

says ( surah ISRA ) verses 42

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42. Say: If there had been (other) gods with Him, as they say,- behold, they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne!

 

and there s also a verses to whom argue about prophet mohamed

and when we say that he married Sayeda ( Aisha )

at this age because it was the normal at this time

 

SO the disbelievers says : prophet mohamed is a prophet he should nt do what the other people do ( though all prophet who came before prophet mohamed just did what everyone do from their people )

Verses 95to 97  surah ISRA

94. What kept men back from belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this: they said, "Has Allah sent a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger."

95. Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for an apostle."

96. Say: "Enough is Allah for a witness between me and you: for He is well acquainted with His servants, and He sees (all things).

97. It is he whom Allah guides, that is on true Guidance; but he whom He leaves astray - for such wilt thou find no protector besides Him. On the Day of Judgment We shall gather, them together, prone on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf: their abode will be Hell: every time it shows abatement, We shall increase from them the fierceness of the Fire.

 

So I m sorry to get off topic

But its irritate me when I read what they write about prophet mohamed

and because they are brainless

they didnt understand that the wisdom of allah to send any prophet is to chose him from the people themselves

so he would live with them eat at them and do everything they do

but to guide them to righteous ...

and SUrah In nisaa ( woman )

says in verses 165

165. Messenger. who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the apostles, should have no plea against Allah. For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

 

we salam alikom



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Posted By: jacques4173
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 8:18pm
Christians do not beleive that Jesus is God, and also Jesus was crucified and hung on the cross and died for our sins that we might all be saved. The reason that Christians call Jesus the Son of God is because he was born of a virgin (Mary)conceived by the Holy Spirit. In the Bible this is in Matthew 1:18-24. Also look in Matthew 3:16-17, after Jesus is baptized God said" This is my beloved son and I am fully pleased with him"


Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 30 October 2006 at 8:56am

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Posted By: jacques4173
Date Posted: 31 October 2006 at 9:53am
I'm going to have to say no, I don't agree with you on events not happening or Bible being altered. Not Yet anyway. I myself need to do more research, however Jesus is separate from the Holy Spirit. Jesus was a prophet yes! The Holy Spirit of course is in the spirit realm, he is the teacher, the comforter and more. Matthew was here before Jesus. God does call several of his prophets his son's and daughters, however Jesus is the only ONE he called into existence through a virgin woman (Mary). This is why the Bible says he (God) gave his Only Begotten Son. I've noticed on here a lot that people try to reference scriptures from the Bible and they aren't reading scriptures in their entirety and they are unaware of who is speaking at the time. When I see scriptures referenced on here I look in my Bible and then I'm like "what are they talking about" that's not what the Bible says, or that's not who Jesus or God was talking too?? I'm not saying it's impossible that information could not have been altered in the Bible, but right now, I don't believe so. God said I am the Lord and I change Not, nor does his word. Which is supposed to be the same with the Quaran right? Also the Bible does not reference anyone else coming after Jesus. It only references Jesus coming back for his people so I don't understand where the Quaran or Muslim religion came from. I would think it would have been referenced in our Bible??? Enlighten me I guess.


Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 31 October 2006 at 10:29am

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Posted By: jacques4173
Date Posted: 31 October 2006 at 12:29pm
There are multiple versions of the Bible true, however all the words mean the same thing. Alteration has not been made to original meanings. For instance someone may have a youth Bible. Well it is only broken down so a youth can get a full understanding of the scriptures. There is an Amplified Bible, that just goes into more depth of the same meaning. Versions are just broken down, or more in depth meanings of the original text in the Bible. King James, New Living, Amplified,etc all are saying the exact same thing just using a different word for some to comprehend better, or easier. For example one Bible may use the word Satan, another will say the Devi etc. They both mean the same thing. Yes Prayer would be superior.


Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 31 October 2006 at 8:43pm

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Posted By: StephenC
Date Posted: 01 November 2006 at 6:45am
Originally posted by Hanan Hanan wrote:

In Christian religion who are Jesus and the Spirit? If Jesus is the son of Gd then are not ALL people sons and daughters of Gd? Is Jesus a prophet? How did Mathew know all these things? I believe that the Christian bible has been changed and altered and that some of the events did not happen, do you agree with me?

I agree that the Christian Bible has been changed and altered and that some of the events may not have happened, just like the Quran!

The Quran too, was compiled by a committee which picked and chose what would and would not go in it.  It was unauthorized by GOD and even Muhammad!

Does that belittle Islam?  Does that belittle Christianity?



Posted By: air_one
Date Posted: 01 November 2006 at 7:34am
The event you're always referring to stepenc is the event we muslims call the single most important event regarding to the preservation of the Quran.

You call this event as proof that the Quran has been altered.

Muslims call this event as proof the Quran has been preserved.

You will not be able to change our views nor shall we be able to change your view regarding this event. Lets move on.


Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 01 November 2006 at 11:00am

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Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 02 November 2006 at 9:49am
Hanan

The Christian New Testament is not The Unaltered Word of God. It is a collection of historical documents chosen from many such documents by the Councel of Nicea in the century of about 300 CE. At that time Christianity was not standardized, and countless documents from the earlier era were circulating. These included the "Gospel of Judas", the "Gospel of Mary Magdalen" and many others.

The church elders examined the existing plethora of such documents, and quite simply voted on which ones to include in the "Christian Cannon". In reallity, IMHO, none of them originally claimed to be the Word of God, or even the Inspired Word of God.

Instead, all of them were created by informed persons who had known Jesus, or known of him, and/or by philosophers and others with opinions on the matter. For instance, Revalations is the least authoritative of all the included documents, and it is some mystery as to how the elders decided to include it. Include it they did, and today many Christians believe it is a very authentic document, though any serious investigation shows it to be an allagory for Rome and Nero.

IMHO, the most authentic documents are the letters of Paul because they were disseminated and copied during his lifetime and have come down over history in relatively good order. It is clear, however, that some copiests took liberities with their work, and many of these are easy to identify for several reasons.

Among those reasons is that some of the paragraphs attributed to Paul neither correspond to his general and easily understood philosopy; or simply don't even use the words he used: Paul had a recognizable vocabulary that has been cataloqued. Suspicious forgeries are not all that hard to isolate.

Anyway, this is just my understanding, and is in now way any sort of Christian authority of any given 'confession' or sect.


Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 02 November 2006 at 10:16am
Hanan

Many Muslims call Christianity "The Pauline" religion, and for good reason. Paul's missionary work established the "Jesus Movement" throughout the Mediteranean world, and the various "Churches" he founded and nurished led directly to the world religion we now know as Christianity.

Accordingly, Christianity is unique in the world since it was 'founded' by a man whose original mission was, by his own testiment, to destroy it root and branch before it could spread. In addition, Paul became intimately acquainted with relatives, apostles, and followers of Jesus. As a result, his conclusions regarding Jesus's life and death have a special and independent authority regarding those matters.

Christian philosophy can not in the least be understood without extensive study of Paul's work in the early church. Just about everything else is accretion upon the original teachings of Jesus himself.




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