I am struck by the similiarities between Muhammad (Islam) and Joseph Smith (Mormons).

Both were visited by "Angels" and received revelations.  Both had their revelations written by others.  Both acknowledged the existences of Christ.  Both were men of violence.  Both were men of many wifes...etc.

What are the differences?

StephenC wrote: I am struck by the similiarities between Muhammad (Islam) and Joseph Smith (Mormons). Both were visited by "Angels" and received revelations.  Both had their revelations written by others.  Both acknowledged the existences of Christ.  Both were men of violence.  Both were men of many wifes...etc. What are the differences?

I don't know about Joseph Smith, and I would not like to debate on him. But, you should not address any personality without any evidence in this manner.  

You said about Prophet Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) that he was a man of violence. What is the evidence?

This section is for interfaith dialogue. Quote suitable references to back up your claim. Read the guidelines and warnings in this section before you post anything.

Peace

Joseph had two wives, not many, Emma Smith and Liza R Snow....I am a Mormon.  All others were sealed to him (wrongly) after his martyrdom.

Joseph was not a man of violence, but like Muhammed, was forced to defend his people against murder and abuse.  (Look up the Haun's Mill Massacre and the events of Far West and  you will see why the Mormon men marched to Missouri....also the Extermination order by Boggs)

And as for their revelations written by others.  Joseph was translating a text already written in another language.  He had scribes to write as he translated.  He only had the plates for a short time and it made the process go faster.  Also, those that acted as scribes were educated, Joseph only had a 3rd or 4th grade level education. The miracle of the Book of Mormon is its preservation and that it was translated in just 3 months.  June to August of 1829.   

Muhammed, was illiterate and at first had his companions write the revelations upon whatever was handy, then commanding them to memorize it.  The miracle of the Quran is that Muhammed being illiterate could not have composed such a book of prose without divine inspiration.

Both men had witnesses to their miracles, the Angels and the truth that was being brought to them.  Both men were persecuted by their enemies. 

Both men have been villified by those that do not understand them and do not care to understand them.  Both men were humble, giving and loving family men. 

Perhaps you really should do you're research instead of just going off anti-Islamic and anti-Mormon propaganda.

I suggest the book.  "They Knew the Prophet" by Hyrum and Helen Mae Andrus (friends of mine) and http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/history - http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/history

Mountain Meadows????  It was a horrible Tragedy, but there are claims that some of the men in the wagon train bragged about being Missouri Wildcats.  However, John D Lee was excommunicated from the LDS Church and then tried and executed for his crimes.  No one was brought to justice for the Haun's Mill massacre and actually the Extermination Order signed by Governor Bogg's was still legal until 1976.  There are those in every society that are less than they should be.  However, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre#_note-25 - Mountain Meadows incident was not the doing of Joseph Smith.  He had been killed long before the incident took place.

Extermination Order (Mormonism)

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Missouri Executive Order 44 also known as The "Extermination Order" in Latter Day Saint history was an executive order issued on October 27, 1838 by Missouri governor Lilburn Boggs to have Mormons driven from the state. The order was in response to what Boggs termed "open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made war upon the people of this State ... the Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary for the public peace�their outrages are beyond all description." The order was not formally rescinded until 1976.

The law made it legal to kill anyone who belonged to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the state of Missouri. At least 60 Mormons were killed and dozens of women and girls raped, and countless others died from exposure in 1838 under the executive order and resulting forced evacuation from the state (See History of the Church Volume III, preface).

Photo of original document in possession of the Missouri State Historical Society

Contents [hide] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_Order_Mormonism#Background_for_Order - 1 Background for Order http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_Order_Mormonism#Results - 2 Results http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_Order_Mormonism#References - 3 References http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_Order_Mormonism#External_links - 4 External links

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Background for Order

Accusations from both Mormon and anti-Mormon parties and repeated conflicts prompted the state to forcibly relocate Mormons from Jackson County, Missouri north to areas which had not been previously settled. The extermination order came on the heels of the Battle of Crooked River, a skirmish between state militia who had taken Mormon hostages and a small group from the Mormon militia, which was also recognized by Missouri at the time. The brief battle claimed casualties of 4 men, including 1 state militia and 3 Mormon militia. Sworn statements and word of the battle convinced Boggs that the Mormons were warring against the State and should be removed altogether.

[edit]

Results

The order directly preceded the Haun's Mill Massacre, which occurred three days later. This mob killing of 17 Mormon men and boys underscored the seriousness of the threat.

Mormons were arrested and forced to gather to the town of Far West, Missouri by a state militia organized in early 1838 by Governor Boggs to deal with the "Indian uprising" in the Western reserves of Missouri, although there are no records of an uprising in recorded history. Church leaders were tried under a military tribunal, convicted of high treason to the state of Missouri for membership in the church and sentenced to death. General Alexander W. Doniphan refused to carry out the order of death given by his superiors stating it was illegal and "cold-blooded murder," as he felt that Mormon leaders should not be tried by a tribunal [1] [2].

In exchange for the return of raped women and teenage girls, and under the agreement not to kill more Mormons, militia members forced Mormon property holders to sign over property deeds and ordered to leave the state in October and November 1838. Church members crossed a frozen Missouri River to seek refuge in Quincy, Illinois. During the exodus to Illinois, more women were raped, older Mormons died from exposure and more Mormon men were killed by mobs.

About two dozen church leaders, including Latter Day Saint prophet Joseph Smith Jr. faced capital punishment and were sent to Prison at Richmond, Missouri and later the Liberty Jail. During a transfer to another prison, Smith was allowed to escape with help from sympathetic guards. Smith and the other Mormons resettled in Nauvoo, Illinois beginning in 1839.

Governor Boggs survived an assassination attempt, despite buckshot wounds to his head and neck. Porter Rockwell, an associate of Joseph Smith, was arrested for the crime, but was later released without indictment after having spent months in jail. His alleged involvement in the assassination attempt is one reason Missouri dispatched bounty hunters to (unsuccessfully) bring Joseph Smith back to Missouri. Modern historians discount Rockwell's involvement, pointing instead to rivalry in the political arena. Monte B. McLaws, in the Missouri Historical Review, determined that while there was no clear finger pointing to anyone, Governor Boggs was running for election against several violent men, all capable of the deed.

The Extermination Order remained active, though likely legally invalid, until it was rescinded by Governor Christopher S. Bond on June 25, 1976, 137 years after being signed. In late 1975, RLDS (now Community of Christ) Far West, Missouri Stake President Lyman F. Edwards invited Governor Bond to participate in the RLDS annual stake conference in 1976. In his address at that conference, Bond presented an Executive Order which noted that "...Governor Boggs' order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and ... (that) the exercise of religious freedom is without question one of the basic tenets of our free democratic republic". He also expressed regret for the "...injustice and undue suffering which was caused by the 1838 order."

Anjela,

Joseph Smith had many wives, including other mens wives who were sealed to him while the husbands were on mission, this is fact, not fiction.  This is widely accepted by the LDS Church now.  Go to FAIR and ask the question you may be shocked with what you come up with.

I too have seen similarities between Muhammed and Joseph Smith.  Both were visited by Angels and given a book that denies the Gospel of Christ.  Muslims believe that Jesus was just a prophet, and there was no resurrection (which is the main point of the Gospel, mans redemption and salvation through Jesus Christ).  And Joseph Smith spreading the Gospel of man can become a God, and rule like Jesus, that God the Father and Jesus are not one, but seperate Gods', that Jesus attonement was in the Garden of Gethesame not on the Cross at Calvary, etc...

Both encouraged and ordered their followers to fight with weapons and armies to defend their faith, Jesus never ordered His Apostles to fight to defend the faith, in fact He rebuked Peter when Peter struck the Roman's ear off.

Both were the husband to many wives, both incorporate Jesus into their books, but both also demote Jesus. etc...

Saint Michael. 

You are right...there were more than 2...there were more.  24 is the officially recognized number of sealings.  33 is generally accepted but not provable and 48 is the largest number.  However, there is a big difference between sealing and marriage.  Here's an excerpt from answers.com

Answers.com wrote: Sealing vs Marriage There is a subtle difference between 'sealing' (which is a priesthood ordinance that binds individuals together in the eternities), and 'marriage' (a social tradition in which the man and woman agree to be husband and wife in this life). In those early days of this religion, common practices and doctrines were not yet well-defined. It is speculated that many, if not all, of the arrangements between Smith and these women were more in alignment with the concept of sealings, not marriages, in the sense that Smith did not join with any of these women, except for Emma, in a family unit. Even among those who accept the views of conventional historians, there is disagreement as to the precise number of wives Smith had: Fawn Brodie lists 48, D. Michael Quinn 46, and George D. Smith 43. A number of Joseph's marriages occurred after his death, with the wife being sealed to Joseph via a proxy that stood in for him. The LDS Church's genealogical website lists 24 marriages for Smith, four of which are indicated to have taken place after his death. One historian, Todd M. Compton, documented at least thirty-three plural marriages or sealings during Smith's lifetime. Many people think it is without question that Joseph had multiple wives; but, as Compton states multiple times in his work, "Absolutely nothing is known of this marriage after the ceremony"�that is, it is unclear how many of the women Smith had sexual relations with. There are allegations that Smith had at least one child born to a plural wife, but this remains unproven.

http://www.answers.com/topic/joseph-smith-jr-and-polygamy - http://www.answers.com/topic/joseph-smith-jr-and-polygamy

Angela wrote: Saint Michael.  You are right...there were more than 2...there were more.  24 is the officially recognized number of sealings.  33 is generally accepted but not provable and 48 is the largest number.  However, there is a big difference between sealing and marriage.  Here's an excerpt from answers.com

Anjela I understand the difference between sealing and marriage (for time).  However in D&C 132 Joseph Smith is commanded to take mroe wives to "raise up the seed".  Now how is sealing only for eternity "raising up the seed" in accordance with D&C132?  Brigham Young and later prophets did not follow that example?  They clearly consumated their marriages.

These are Joseph Smith's wives, including I think 10 that were already married to LDS men.  Most of these marraiges were hidden from the public eye and even lied about.  So to say that Joseph Smith  ONLY was sealed to other women AFTER his death is patently false.

St. Michael,

http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&id=290 - http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&id=290

So to say that Joseph Smith  ONLY was sealed to other women AFTER his death is patently false.

I actually stated the official geneological record states that FOUR of the TWENTY FOUR recognized wives were postumous.  There are many lies that you can find in older anti-mormon sources that inflat the number of wives that he had taken.  Needless to say...Polygamy is an accepted concept even if its no longer practiced.  Therefore, I don't really care of Joseph had 700 wives.  I really doesn't change my opinion of the man or my testimony of the Book of Mormon. 

If God ordered Prophet Hinckley to reinstate Polygamy tomorrow, I would be one of the first women to welcome its return.

StephenC wrote: I am struck by the similiarities between Muhammad (Islam) and Joseph Smith (Mormons).

Similarities do not cover differences but through bias.

Both were visited by "Angels" and received revelations.    Angels have been known to carry messages from Gd throughout time. So this similarity should create awe in you? That is, if the two accounts "struck you", then the multitude of times angels brought messages to man should create awe? [quote]    Both had their revelations written by others. The Quran was recorded, as a means that is minor in comparison to the major means of recording which is memory. The Quran is a recitation, and meant to me recited. [quote]     Both acknowledged the existences of Christ.  Both were men of violence.  Both were men of many wifes...etc. What are the differences?

Another complex question.

You "handwaved" through your comparisons, leaving a great many unresolved points that you seem to want readers to accept willingly and without thought.

Two people believing that Jesus existed does not tell us anything about the two people. IN other words, in a comparison analogy, we look at the primary attributes of the things. Two people breathing air does not allow on to draw any solid conclusion abut the similarities between the two people. These attributes would only allow a general conclusion.

I'm sorry I did not realize that asking "What are the differences" between Muhammad (Islam) and Smith (Mormonism) was that complex of a question.

I guess that my point is that as a casual reader of the Qur'an (and its history) and the Book of Mormon (and its history) I really don't see any significant differences.

Without any significant differences, then I must question whether both or either books/religions are of God or of man

StephenC wrote: I'm sorry I did not realize that asking "What are the differences" between Muhammad (Islam) and Smith (Mormonism) was that complex of a question.

A complex question was in reference to a question you gave that had at its bases an assumption that was neither proven or argued.

I guess that my point is that as a casual reader of the Qur'an (and its history) and the Book of Mormon (and its history) I really don't see any significant differences.

That is your opinion.

Millions do not agree, and that is why some adhere to the book of Mormon and some do not.

We have a Mormon on the forum, and any indepth discussion would not be beneficial.

Without any significant differences, then I must question whether both or either books/religions are of God or of man

If you could not find any significant differences, then I might suggest more than a cursory read. I have read the book of Mormon, and there are significant differences.

If this is your opinion and you feel what you think is true, then you are free to think this.

"A complex question was in reference to a question you gave that had at its bases an assumption that was neither proven or argued."

What assumption was that?

"Without any significant differences, then I must question whether both or either books/religions are of God or of man"

"If you could not find any significant differences, then I might suggest more than a cursory read. I have read the book of Mormon, and there are significant differences.

If this is your opinion and you feel what you think is true, then you are free to think this."

I was hoping you would mention even ONE significant difference between the two prophets and their religions/books.  When I request ONE significant difference, I mean something more significant then their height, nationality, etc.

I would appreciate your knowledge in this matter instead of vague replies,

StephenC wrote: "A complex question was in reference to a question you gave that had at its bases an assumption that was neither proven or argued." What assumption was that?

You stated:

"Both acknowledged the existences of Christ.  Both were men of violence.  Both were men of many wifes...etc.

What are the differences?"

You question is a complex question as it assumes that the above assertions buried in your question are valid and do indeed prove a similarity.

"Without any significant differences, then I must question whether both or either books/religions are of God or of man" "If you could not find any significant differences, then I might suggest more than a cursory read. I have read the book of Mormon, and there are significant differences. If this is your opinion and you feel what you think is true, then you are free to think this." I was hoping you would mention even ONE significant difference between the two prophets and their religions/books.  When I request ONE significant difference, I mean something more significant then their height, nationality, etc. I would appreciate your knowledge in this matter instead of vague replies,

I was hoping you would have corrected your sophist attempt at trying to make the two men equivalent. I have shown that your question is complex. I am not being vague, as I, with no uncertainty, have pointed out the problems in your conclusion. For example, I have stated that two men believing in the past existance of Jesus does not mean the two men are the same in faith, character, food preferences, women preferences, or anything else that is of significant.

A comparison relies upon the ability to show significant attributes. Your comparisons are too general. So general that I believe you have some assumed belief that you have been extremely cryptic in concealing. As I have said, I smell an evangelical.

You deflected from this point (the a belief in Jesus by two men does not tell us of any significant similarities) by wanting something from me to satisfy your erroneous position.

You made the claim that they were the same. Now it is up to you to show it. Not with softball "but they both believed Jesus existed"....etc.

If you make deragotory remarks about Joseph Smith, I will delete your reply, please respect the beliefs of all when conveying your thoughts. 

Thanks 

I have repeatedly pointed similiarities of the two men and their revelations.  I have asked for any significant differences.  You mention potentionally insignificant differences such as food preferences.

The fact that they both acknowledge Christ in a reduced role is only ONE similiarity.

Your threat of deleting my post if I say anything derogatory (which I haven't) and your refusal to give a significant difference indicates to me you can not give a difference!

StephenC wrote: I have repeatedly pointed similiarities of the two men and their revelations.  I have asked for any significant differences.  You mention potentionally insignificant differences such as food preferences.

Food was used as an example of your erroneous view, demsonstrating that only primary (significant) attributes are used to when making a comparison.

You made the claim, now show your proof.

The fact that they both acknowledge Christ in a reduced role is only ONE similiarity.

Supposition.

What was the role of Christ?

Your threat of deleting my post if I say anything derogatory (which I haven't) and your refusal to give a significant difference indicates to me you can not give a difference!

My threat of deletion is to anything that is insulting, regardless if it is about the Prophet (saw), as we have members of different background, and we giver them all respect. If you are unable to back up your claim without being insulting, then I would say you are making claims you have no way of backing up.

Your refusal to acknowledge my point about

1) the erroneous method you are attempting to use and

2) the supposition you have buried in your replies

tells me you have an agenda.

StephenC wrote: I have repeatedly pointed similiarities of the two men and their revelations.  I have asked for any significant differences.  You mention potentionally insignificant differences such as food preferences. The fact that they both acknowledge Christ in a reduced role is only ONE similiarity. Your threat of deleting my post if I say anything derogatory (which I haven't) and your refusal to give a significant difference indicates to me you can not give a difference!

Actually, the Mormon Church increases the Role of Jesus Christ.  Jesus is still the Son of God, Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament acting on behalf of his Father, Elohim. 

He is still the product of a Virgin Birth to Mary by the Power of the Holy Spirit.  He is still the Savior, who took upon him the Sins of the world in the Garden and suffered and bleed from every pore.  He was raised up on the Cross, died and was Resurrected.

The major difference between Muslims and Mormons is first we do believe in the divinity of Christ.  He is truly the Son of God and the Savior.  We believe he was crucified and resurrected and ascended to Heaven.  Like the Muslims we do not believe in the One God in Three Forms.  We believe in the Godhead, Elohim the Supreme Ruler and Creator, Jehovah the Intercessor and Savior and the Holy Spirit, the Comforter and Testifier.

Another difference is the manner in which the Two books were revealed.  Muhammed's book came from direct revelation from Gabriel to Muhammed.  The miracle is in the illiteracy of the Prophet of Islam and the perfectness of the Arabic of the Quran.  His revelations were intended to bring a pagan people back to God Almighty and away from their idols and false Gods.

Joseph Smith was the Prophet of the Restoration of the True Church.  His was not to bring NEW revelation but to return lost revelations.  The Book of Mormon was not written by his hand, it was translated.  The Book had many authors from Nephi to Moroni.  The Book was buried in the Hill Cumorah and preserved until the Prophet stepped forth to translate it with the Power of God.  Thus the words of the Book of Mormon are not Joseph's words they are those of the men who compiled them.  The closest things we have to the Quran in the LDS Church are the Doctrine and Covenants (direct revelations to the Prophets) and the Book of Moses which was given to Joseph through Direct Revelation.

So we have the nature of Jesus, the Godhead and the nature of the Revealed book that Separate us.  The Purpose of Life is also different.  We are here to be perfected like our Heavenly Father, to be tried and tested and return to him.  One of the points that many detractors point out is our believe that Man is as God was, and as God is Man may become....this is blasphemous to the Muslim.  For them, God is eternal, no beginning or end, neither created or begotten.  God is formless and all powerful.  Man was created to worship God and we are here to be tested for our obedience.  Those who obey will go to heaven, those that don't will suffer eternal hellfire.

Mormon's believe there is salvation for the dead and that there is a place for everyone in Heaven, even non Mormons.  Muslims believe only Muslims will be in Heaven and all else will perish in the fire.

Another major difference is the Priesthood.  Mormons give the priesthood to all worthy males.  Starting at the age of 12 and going throughout their life.  They are first given the lesser priesthood of the Aaronic Priesthood and then later given the Melchizedek Priesthood.  Men called to higher offices are given the High Priesthood.  This allows the men to baptize, pass sacrement, give blessings to the sick and afflicted and act on behalf of others. 

Muslims have no priesthood.  Theirs is a personal relationship with God.  The Imam is simply a man who leads prayers, in the US and areas where the communities are small he becomes a community leader as well.  The Scholars are not Priests.  They are men who have studies the Quran and Sunnah to such a degree that they are recognized on Authorities when it comes to Shariah and such.  Therefore they are able to issue Fatwas or religious clarifications.  These are not binding as they would be if he was some sort of Priest.

The Mormons have a definite hierarchy and organization.  The Muslims do not. 

Similarities....

Both believe in Prophets After Christ...(Mormons do not believe an end to the Prophets)

Both Fast regularly as part of their worship.

Both give obligatory charity of their wealth even to the poorest

Both stress the values of chasity, marriage and family.

Both stress Modesty of clothing and keep well groomed.

Both require daily prayer and scripture study

Both bear their Testimonies (Shahada) of their faith and are expected to share their faith with others.

Both are forbidden to drink, eat in excess and keep their bodies clean.

Both believe that you are responsible for your actions and will have to answer for them on Judgement Day.

Both believe in Judgment Day.

Both believe in a sacred journey needed at least once in their lifetime. (Hajj for Muslims, Endowment for Mormons)

Both are persecuted, missunderstood and reviled in totally unchristian attitudes of so called Christians.

Thank you for the information.  I appreciate the work that went into your post.

I guess the biggest difference is:

"Mormons do not believe an end to the Prophets" where Islam says  Muhammad is the last prophet and Revelation 22:18-19 has Jesus saying not to add or take away from the scriptures!

What did Muhammad prophetize that has come true?

What has Joseph Smith prophetize that has come true?

'Uthman's compilation of the text of the Quran as revealed to the Prophet. Realizing that the original message from God might be inadvertently distorted by textual variants, he appointed a committee to collect the canonical verses and destroy the variant recensions. The result was the text that is accepted to this day throughout the Muslim world.�  IslamiCity.com History of Islam �The Rightly Guided Caliphs

Since Uthman was the 3^rd Caliph after the death of

Muhammad, it appears the final committee version of the Qur�an occurred without the benefit of Muhammad�s consultation as to accuracy.

This is off topic. Please stay on topic. If youw ant to discuss the Quran, then please contribute under a topic about the Quran.

Material off the topic of thread. Please refrain from this.

Off topic of thread. After today, if you continue this, you will be given a warning. If you want to discuss the Quran, then start a thread about the Quran.

Thanks

Off topic

off topic

StephenC wrote: Thank you for the information.  I appreciate the work that went into your post. I guess the biggest difference is: "Mormons do not believe an end to the Prophets" where Islam says  Muhammad is the last prophet and Revelation 22:18-19 has Jesus saying not to add or take away from the scriptures!

First off, Revelations was written by John the Revelator (also considered John the Beloved by some groups) long after Jesus had passed on.  The estimated time of the Book of Revelations according to http://www.earlychristianwritings.com - http://www.earlychristianwritings.com is about 90-95 CE, that is about 60 years after the death of Christ.  Secondly, Jesus is talking about Revelations specifially.  There is also a passage in the Old Testament that is similar about adding to the scriptures and the dire consequences.  These are not talking about new scriptures but altering/adding to the existing scriptures.  Remember, at the time of the Book of Revelations there was no such thing as an Old Testament or a New Testament.  Those were not created until 325 CE.  Therefore when he says Book here, you cannot read the Bible, for there are many books written at this time and have yet to be compiled into a collection bound together.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:   19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Secondly as to the Miracles of Joseph Smith and Muhammed.  Muhammed split the moon and Joseph healed the sick.  There are also miracles of him having known the names of men before he ever met them.

Similarities

In the future, please reference the site you copied and paste from (I know the site). Also, take a look at the rule at the top of interfaith section about copying and pasting lists. "Dumping" is not allowed. You may use the points in your discussion, but we are not allowed to just dump lists. It takes away from discussion and dialogue, which is why you are here, yes? So please feel free to discuss the points.

Kindest Regards

"Secondly as to the Miracles of Joseph Smith and Muhammed.  Muhammed split the moon and Joseph healed the sick.  There are also miracles of him having known the names of men before he ever met them."

Where can I find information about these miracles?

After some thought I have decided to close this thread. My reasons are justified as follows:

1) By trying to link Jospeh Smith and Prophet Muhammad (saw), the followers of each are now in a position to either ignore, or prove the claims of their respective figures, leading the way to strife between the two groups. The author, no doubt, knows this, and will be long gone while the wounds of such a strife will still be felt in this community. I question the integrity of author of such desired discord.

2) The questions, which are almost childlike in nature, keep linking the two men together, making it a matter of now having to defend both men, or cutting one down while defending the other. This forum is about dialogue, understanding, and clean debate. The nature of this thread and the direction it is going is bad in intention and against the nature of this forum.

3) The questions have begun to take on a different course, irrelevant to the point of the thread. I also find that the off topic questions are directly from the missionary, polemical handbook.

4) Therefore I will close this topic, and allow for the thread of Joseph Smith sperately from Prophet Muhammad (saw) so that if one wants to discuss the prophethood of either, they are welcome.

5) Do to the fact that we have different people here from different faiths, Islamcity in the traditonal spirit of Islam, extends the rights and protection to other beliefs here, and will not allow the bashing or bullying of other faiths or figure heads of other faiths. Therefore, if a thread about Joseph Smith is started, and if it goes no where, I will not allow it to be a place for non-Mormons to go and bash. The first sign of the dialogue going south (as a moderator I reserve the right to determine this), I will close it down and edit it if need be.

For anyone wanting to discuss these two indivudals in terms of their life or prophethood, I have no problem if someone starts a thread on them individually.

There is a section on Prophets in this forum also.

I hope this helps, and if anyone has any comments, you may use the comment section or send me a personal message.

If I have made an error in the forum rules, then admin or the other mods will let me know, and I apologize.

Kindest Regards