Not approaching zina prevents AIDS, too.

Ummmmm you can get aids by sharing needles too. Also, more women than men get it........think here of the obvious differences. Also, children get it. So, this theory is for who? About who?

So, circumcision is the way to stop the global epidemic? *Gets a sharp surgical instrument*

Lameese

I'm not dismissing the findings in the article but sex isn't the only way of getting the virus, as lameese mentioned there are the sharing of needles/accidently stepping on a used needle & there are blood transfusions.

lameese, children get it because it is passed down thru the mother if she has it, and if its not by any other means.

So, circumcision is the way to stop the global epidemic? *Gets a sharp surgical instrument* Lameese

I don't know. My post was about demonstrating the miraculous nature of teachings of Islam.

Zaman bhai, if you wanted to demonstrate just that it would have been much easier to quote how perfectly the Quran describes the solar system. And, at a time when the whole world was actually just "flat".

And, please, don't worry about that "sharp surgical instrument". I am sure, Lameese should be allowed to try it at whatever late stage!

Point being, circumcision does not prevent AIDS and even if it did there are other ways to contract AIDS without even using circumsicion. Such as open wounds and touching blood of AIDS patients or sharing needles. If circumsicion argument in the case of not contracting AIDs is used then perhaps its a week one because of the fact that it is generally noted that AIDs is listed as a sexually transmitted disease. I believe the article is interesting but the findings are not that great. The miracle in this in relation to Islam is that Allah commands believers to be with their respective partners and to love them and cherish them (which encompasses everything including their bodies e.g knowing you can trust them sexually).

ZamanH wrote: I don't know. My post was about demonstrating the miraculous nature of teachings of Islam.

Besides, Israelites practiced it for over 2000 years before Islam.

Deus wrote: ZamanH wrote: I don't know. My post was about demonstrating the miraculous nature of teachings of Islam. Besides, Israelites practiced it for over 2000 years before Islam.

then, MUslim not picking up the unheigynic habits of the Jews and adopting other healthy habits (which were not Jewish) such as pohibition of drinking of wine and smoking, should be seen as a miracle, too.

Point being, circumcision does not prevent AIDS

No, it does and and that has been established through numerous vast surveys taken. Though, it might not be used as a means to prevent AIDS.

Zaman let us use simple logic here:

AIDS is contracted a) sexually b) sharing needles c) contact with blood with an open wound

Now let us say that a man gets circumcised at birth and he gets a cut as an adult. Let us then add that he accidentally touch a sample of blood at a hospital (perhaps doing lab work). The blood that he touched is an AIDs patient. He can still contract AIDS even if he is circumcised and even if he never had sexual contact with anyone ( be it male or female). Simple as that. The argumentand/or survey is weak because it is not enough demonstrative proofs.

I work at a hospital and I know (not from experience nor through empirical contact) that may circumcised patients have HIV not AIDS but HIV AIDS is the latter form of HIV. The only way to prevent both is two things: Abstionence and using condoms or forms of contraceptives. If circumsicion prevents that type of STD then condoms would not be widely endorsed. So Zaman I don't think posting that article benefits anyone. If you ask me its an endorsement of sexual intercourse with a dirty person be it Muslim or non-Muslim.

There was a misunderstanding from my side. I thought prevention means restriction or curtailment and not eradication. My point was circumcision restricts the AIDS epidemic to some extent.

Zaman said:

I thought prevention means restriction or curtailment

It does mean that, but the argument concerning circumcision preventing AIDS is flawed. Number one when you contract AIDS it is the last stage. What you do however contract is HIV first, that you cannot prevent even if circumcision happen as a small child. The reason being is when you get sick like a flu or cold. What your cells do as the first line of defense is your body sends your white cells (I forgot the name as biology was completed some years ago) to "photocopy" the make up of the virus which the "picture" of the virus is thus transmitted to the T-cells so they can identify the virus in the body. Once identified your T-cells attack the virus and destroy it evntually. As your body destroys the virus your body constantly makes killer T-cells so the eradication of the Virus is complete. Now with the HIV (Human Immunodeficiency Virus) this virus not only keeps white cells from photo copying the virus (it in fact attacks these cells and implants their DNA so they can replicate themselves) and destroys the T-cells in the body for a lower count.

Once HIV is contracted you do not die from it, you die from the stuff your body could originally fight such as colds and flus.  To answer your question circumcision does not prevent HIV because 1) the body has no immunity for the virus in the first place 2) It can still be contracted any other way. So as Noah mentions there is no miracle here. I not spitting this out of my butt cheek because right now I work at a hospital here in California. I won't say what my job is but we deal with HIV/AIDS patients all the time. If you wish I can slo post a doctors opinion on how HIV is contracted sexually and I would more than happy ask a doctor from my hospital regarding your argument from the article you posted.

But brother if I may ask with sincerity if you truly believe in what the article presents then I sincerely ask you to test this truht yourself. Now you can do one or two things:

1) Marry and love somone with the HIV virus and thus have intercourse with them knowing that the article is true

or

2) If there is some slight doubt in your mind, not only is the article flawed but it gives you lack of confidence in it. Thus the only safe way to prevention of HIV/AIDS is abstinence or contraception not circumcision. BTW circumcision does not restrict HIV/AIDS to some extent it does nothing to no extent. Again test your articles hypothesis yourself. I'm not asking you to kill yourself I believe your an intelligent person, and enough intelligent to know that HIV/AIDS cannot be prevented by the body, yet. Yes the HIV virus is fragile and can die in air, drying of blood, alcohol, bleach or any other household products, but once inside the blood it is an enemy to the body's life system. Brother there is no prvention from the body yet and to propogate that article is like propogating how tall God is.

1) Marry and love somone with the HIV virus and thus have intercourse with them knowing that the article is true

Why would I marry a HIV positive person, if I don't want to get AIDS?? As I had said earlier, it reduces the possibility of one's contracting AIDS (due to intercourse with a HIV positive person) but it does not eliminates it. And I considered it a miracle that Islamic practices have medical significance even though, 1400 years back much wasn't known about AIDS.

I am not discouraging the use of condoms among people of the populations/communitites where AIDS is prevalent. Of course, it checks AIDS epidemic better. My point was circumcision also checks AIDS epidemic and http://www.circlist.com/considering/medicalben.html#aidscurb - has other medical benefits .

Salaam,

Brother Zaman I have an update on your findings as I asked a friend who works in the medical clinic at my hospital. One of the things I asked her ( as I already knew myself but for the sake of this forum I still asked the question) does circumcision reduce the risk and/prevent HIV?

Answer: No. There are some actual researchers which there is a presupposition to where circumcision may reduce the risk or even prevent bacterial infection ( notice infection was used and not HIV). The reason being is because the foreskin's interior contains enzymes which may help fight off bacteria but because of bad hygenic reasons these enzymes may not help reduce the risk of infection and in fact with bad hygeine one can have bacteria entrapped under the foreskin area. The removal of this is more clean and less of a concern if the foreskin was still attached.

Once infected, the aggreives virus (HIV) attaches to the white blood cells which implants it DNA and so when the cells are overloaded it explodes reproducing more HIV and the same process continues over and over again. As I mentioned before its not the actual virus that kills you its the stuff that is minor that can kill you such as colds, flus and even pnuemonia.