Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatahu,

   Don't hesitate to disagree ------  

 "They say you must pray every rakat, even sunnah. "
 Wa athiul laha wa athiuul rasool", so we are to follow the sunnah,

They say that if you eat medicine, then you will break your fast.

 What does fasting means to you? If one is  so sick he's asked not to fast.

They say that women who dont wear hijabs will burn in hell for doing so, even if they practice and believe"

Do they really practice islam. If so Women in Qur'an are asked to wear hijabs na.

They say that kufaars wil burn in hell forever, even if they were nice people.

Its not that so called fundamental and conservative muslims say so, Its the revealed verses of Qur'an that says that kuffars will be burnt in the hell forever since they deny oneness of Allah ta'ala or  believes else other than Allah,

 Its really not their fault that they were Hindu, or Christian, or Jewish, or Athiest, unless they converted to. It was the culture and family they were raised with that put in their brains, sort of like being brainwashed but without ever having anything in the beginning. If Allah did send another religion down, hypothetically speaking, and it was really the true word of god, then would you believe in that religion? No of course not. You believe that this is the last religion. So do Christians and Jews, and others, they believe this because of what the Old and New Testament say. They dont believe there is another religion after theirs.

Qur'an says that every born-child is a muslim and later as u said he's raised either hindu or so onnnnn. As u talked of brains, these brains are to be used. Even we muslims are asked to ponder over the verses and not follow our fore fathers blindly.

Its not that Allah sent another religion down. people made there own religions like instead of following those messengers they made them God. Or either created Gods out of the creations of Allah. Its certainly the true word of God and who deny this are not --------.

So do Christians and Jews, and others, they believe this because of what the Old and New Testament say. They dont believe there is another religion after theirs
 Its mentioned in both the revealed books  about arrival of our prophet {sallal lahu alai hi wasallam}  and  were asked to follow it then how can they ever think that there religion is  the last religion.

Although those people will have to face some punishment because they are not really muslims, I dont think it will be a serious one, if they were good people and truly respected a god. At least if the are monotheistic, you must give me. Muslims will be treated the same way, but being a muslim, it acts as having more rewards than others.

Let me clear a misconception of yours, Who said that muslims will not be punished? But the difference is after there punishement is over they are then sent to jannah. Any one who prays other than Allah ta'ala is thrown in hell and there deeds are of no use then. There are many verses regarding this. Insha-allah will paste them next.  Abu Talib uncle and care taker of our prophet {sallal lahu alaihi wasallam}  was such a nice person. But did not embrace islam. Its said that he will be punished lightly.

I also want to make the point, doing anything, even drugs, even those that intoxicate, are NOT haraam, IFit does not steer your mind away from god, or if it does less damage then good, or if it is unsignificant damage, like gives you constipation or headaches or something. Remember, it applies to EVERYTHING.

For understanding of  the verses of Qur'an we need the help of Hadeees. One cannot undertsand those verses by a mere read. Every verse has its context tooo na.There are many ahadith about it, Please go through them and still if you feeel its not haraam then let us know.

Also, why do many muslims believe that sufi people are not true or 100% correct muslims? Theyre ritual dancing makes just as much sense as our Dikr. It is a form of meditation. Muhammad (pbuh) meditated himself. So did Jesus (pbuh). Many other profets as well (pbut)

We are not to abuse any sects here.  There is no scope of percent in muslims no one is a 50 % muslim or 25. We are asked to submit ourselves completely to Allah.  Do you dance while Dhikr?. We are asked to follow the sunnah of our Prophet {sallal lahu alai hi wa sallam}  and our Prophet never  did such MEDITATION There is no scope for innovations in a true religion.

These are the ways which are 2 be followed to get closer to Allah

"The reasons which cause mahabbah (love) of Allaah to develop, are ten:
 

First: Reciting the Qur'aan, reflecting and understanding its meaning and its intent.

Second: Drawing closer to Allaah � the Most High � through optional deeds, after fulfilling the obligatory duties.

Third: Being continuous in the dhikr (remembrance) of Allaah, with the tongue, the heart and the limbs � under all circumstances. The more continuant the dhikr, the more muhabbah develops and intensifies.

Fourth: Giving precedence to what Allaah loves over personal loves, when being overcome by desires.

Fifth: Contemplating and deliberating over the Names and Attributes of Allaah.

Sixth: Recognizing and remembering the favors and bounties of Allaah � both manifest and hidden.

Seventh: To be humble and submissive before Allaah � and this is the greatest matter.

Eighth: To be in seclusion reciting the Qur'aan, during that time in which Allaah descends to the lowest heaven (which is the last third of every night), finishing this recitation with seeking Allaah's forgiveness and repenting to Him.

Ninth: To sit in the gatherings of the true and sincere lovers of Allaah, reaping the fruits of their speech, and not to speak except if there is benefit in it and that you know that such talk will increase you in goodness and that it will benefit others as well.

Tenth: To stay clear of all those causes which distances the heart from Allaah � the Mighty and Majestic.

So these are the ten reasons which cause the person to develop true love for Allaah and to reach the rank of al-muhabbah, by which he reaches his Beloved.

Regarding music insha-allah will tell you next . Sorry for being straight forward But the need of the hour is to  read, ponder and follow the verses of the qur'an and the authentic hadith. Its our forgotten task of most of the muslims  of dawah. May Allah bestow hidaya'th for us to follow the right path. Ameen Insha-allah we have many other members with more knowledge  who would add up to this.

Please take this as a discussion not a debate.

To start up with as its said earlier that we need to go thru a context  of the verse and most of the verses are well understood by the  reference of the authentic hadith. Coming to the topic here regarding Alcohol and the intoxicants, there are three verses revealed.

Hazrat Umar raziallah ta'ala anha prayed Allah  in regarding it. So this verse of surah Al-Baqarah had been revealed. "They ask you {O Muhammad sallal lahu alai hi wasallam} concerning alcoholic drink and gambling  Say : In them is a great sin and some benefits for men  but the sin of them is greater than their benefit " And they ask u what they ought to spend-----". Our prophet sallal lahu alaihi wasallam recited this verse  to haz Umar raziallah ta'ala anha. It was not clear to him. So he prayed "OAllah make this verse more clear to us".

It was then the verse of surah Nisa 43 was revealed :" O you who believe! Approach not As-Salat when you are in a drunken state until you know the meaning of what you utter". Hazrat Umar was again called and it was recited. But still it was unclear  and again did he pray  "OAllah make this verse more clear to us". Its said that after this verse was revealed during the time of prayers any of the sahabas would stand and say loudly ,"Approach not if in a drunken state" as alcohol was not declared haraam then.

It was the third time that verse of surah Maidah , was revealed , ""O you who believe! intoxicants {all kinds of alcoholic  drinks} and gambling, and Al-Ansab and Al-Azam  {arrows for seeking luck or decision} are an abonimation of shaitan's handi work. So Avoid {strictly} that {abomination}   in order that you may be successful" - verse- 90  Al-Maidah

"satan wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants {alcoholic drinks} and gambling and hinder you from remmebrance of Allah and from As-Salat {the prayer} So will you not abstain ?"- 91

Hazrat Umar raziallah ta'ala anhu was called  again and the verse was recited. This verse ends with "Fahal anthum munthaqoon  " So will you not abstain? and Hazrat Umar replied "Intehaina intehaina" we abstain ,abstain'

Here two things are to benoted : Its said that its handi work of  shaitan   Is it right to follow shaitan? and the verse ended strictly "Will you not abstain?" Its like a warning given.  Inorder to be successful we are asked to abstain from it.

Right now i remember one hadith " Narrated Abu Aamir or Abu malik Ashari that he heard Prophet sallal lahu alai hi wasallam saying "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcohol and use of musical instruments as lawful and from them there will be some who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with there sheep and ask for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow" Allah will destroy them during the night and will let mountain fall on them and He will transform the rest of them into  monkeys and pigs and they will remain till the day of Resurrection" Sahih Bukhari vol-7 494B

ZubairH wrote:   Just another thing, it is known, as a fact, that the prophet pbuh enjoyed singing very much.

Where did you get that "fact" from, Which hadith or ayat?

Sign*Reader wrote: BTW where are yoy from, you don't sound American?

lol!, Not everyone on this forum is from america

the only point I would say is that often we don't know or undertand all. We try and try. For instance, what is a believer or nonbeliever? Only Allah knows what is in one's heart.

And moslems can marry "people of the book". Allah would not make it alright for Moslems to marry who are "doomed" to hell.  Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) himself married "women of the book".

 Most people can't learn to use their brains like this by themselves, unless they use marijuana. Yes I said it. Marijuana helps people understand better. Marijuana is a mental stimulant. Also marijuana does not make you do anything that is considered a sin, like alcohol can do sometimes. DO NOT tell me intoxicants are haraam, because alcohol was replaced immediately by other intoxicants such as marijauna and other intoxicating teas. It is even suggested that Muhammad pbuh used marijuana himself, while meditating.

As'salamulaikum Wa rahmatullahi Wa barakatahu,

First lets make up our minds to adapt the knowledge which leads us to the right path instead of sticking our limits to the religion of our forefathers or else. or to win over the point. May Allah lead us to the right path. There is no question of compromising with the verses of Qur'an at any cost. If we keep trying to make such adjustments then we may not be able to view the real islam as every one would have there own innovated religion. O.K coming t o your point, let me try to explain again that the word  "khamr"  used in the Arabic text stands according to the lane for, "Any intoxicating thing that clouds  or obscures the intellect be it in any quantity", Thus the prohibition here relates to all intoxicants and the name which you mentioned is also under this category.

The total prohibition of Qur'an is a fact of history to which all the historians of the Qur'an including its worst critic D.S Margoliouth  says "when the revelation came, zealous followers went round the houses of muslims and emptied all the vessels of liquor which was supposed to be intoxicating , in many cases breaking the vessels themselves--------.The prohibition was extended to vinegar made of wine and categorical denial  was given to the suggestion that wine had medicinal value." {Mohammad, p 283}

But still as you view, there are many muslims who make others believe that, according to the Holy Qur'an, wine is not something totally evil, - wrongly taking the shelter of the verse - "They ask you {O Prophet} about wine and gambling. Tell {them} in both is a great sin and some benefits for men, but sin is far greater than benefit-----------".

The condemnation of wine even in this verse is very definite. However coming to the words "some benefits", what has been really affirmed is not any benefit in human consumption but the other benefits to which a scientist refers thus, "Alcohol's most  useful sphere of action is a solvent in industrial concerns. It has also some uses as an external consumption" 

Above all as a muslim we need to have complete faith  with the verses. Its said to be handi work of satan and naturally  this path does not leads us to success. We feel little is allowed and after few days we feel to increase the quantity bit more and this way we are completely into  the trap of satan. So please read the verses again and again and lets make a sincere prayer that Allah lead us to a right path. Ameen.

Also, I honestly do not think that at least Christians nor Jews will burn in hell forever at the least. You said that they should use their brains"

Yeah i did say that they need to use there brains instead of following the religion of forefathers. We all know well that Qur'an is not just for muslims, it also addresses whole humanity.  Here is a verse,

" Messengers as bearers of gud news as well as of warning in order that mankind shud have no plea against Allah after the coming of messengers. And Allah is ever All-Powerful and All-Wise."

verse 85 of Al-Imran says "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers"

It is obligatory to have Belief in the Messengership of the Prophet Muhammad {sallal lahu alai hi wasallam} said, "By Him {Allah} in whose hand Muhammad's soul is, there is none from the jews and the christians who hears about me and then dies without believing in the message with which i have been sent{ i.e Islamis monotheism} , but will be from the dwellers of the {hell} fire" Sahih muslim Book of faith Hadith No-240"  And today who does 'nt know of our Prophet be it a muslim or non-muslim. You must be knowing that islam is the fast growing religion in the west and the most read book is the Holy Qur'an.

There are many verses in the Qur'an which warns the disbelievers again and again. Here is a verse which may clarify your doubt

Will Punishment be Diminished for the Disbelievers
Sa`id bin Jubayr commented about Allah's statement,
(but if there is any good (done), He doubles it,) "As for the disbeliever, his punishment will be lessened for him on the Day of Resurrection, but he will never depart the Fire.'' He used as evidence the authentic Hadith in which Al-`Abbas said, "O Messenger of Allah! Your uncle Abu Talib used to protect and support you, did you benefit him at all'' The Messenger said,
(Yes. He is in a shallow area in Hell-fire, and were it not for me, he would have been in the deepest depths of the Fire.) However, this Hadith only applies to Abu Talib, not the rest of the disbelievers. To support this, we mention what Abu Dawud At-Tayalisi recorded in his Musnad that Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(Allah does not wrong the faithful even concerning one good action, for he will be rewarded for it by provision in this life and awarded for it in the Hereafter. As for the disbeliever, he will be provided provision in this life for his good action, and on the Day of Resurrection, he will not have any good deed.)

There are many verses which say that these dis-believers will be thrown in hell forever.

So if we are that concerned of them lets start up to convey them the message, its upon Allah to Bestow  guidance only to whom He wills.

My point is, so what if Muhammad (pbuh) didnt do these types of meditations. That doesnt mean we can't do them. It's just another way of doing it. What do you mean when you said,"Do we dance when doing dikr?" So what? It is just another way

Just another thing, it is known, as a fact, that the prophet pbuh enjoyed singing very much. How is this different in any way from music except for the fact that it has words with it, sometimes not even? The voice is one of the most popular instruments, you cannot deny that this is music. What about whistling? Prophet muhammad indeed was very fond of music.

Regarding meditation, even the non-muslims today agree that offering of salah is the best form of meditation. You just show us a single AUTHENTIC  hadith which supports u r stand of meditation  i.e Dancing. As well as when you say that singing is being allowed? Never did our prophet  support that.  The hadith which most of us are aware of is - when our prophet allowed those minor girls i.e friends of Ayesha razi allah ta'ala anha , to sing, as Haz, Abu-Bakr raziallah ta'ala anhu scolded them. These girls were allowed to visit her house and play with her. And never did our prophet sallal lahu alaihi wasallam asked us to sing the verses of Qur'an. Infact we were asked to recite in a pleasant voice. Not to shout or shriek. 

Even same is the case of music.We have been renovating our religion as per our choice {knowing not that its not gud either here or the world hereafter} like the Ehle kitaab. Here is  a verse please go thru it

"Islam Has Been Perfected For Muslims "

Allah said,
{This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.) This, indeed, is the biggest favor from Allah to this Ummah, for He has completed their religion for them, and they, thus, do not need any other religion or any other Prophet except Muhammad . This is why Allah made Muhammad the Final Prophet and sent him to all humans and Jinn.

Therefore, the permissible is what he allows, the impermissible is what he prohibits, the Law is what he legislates and everything that he conveys is true and authentic and does not contain lies or contradictions.

Allah said;

(And the Word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice,) meaning, it is true in what it conveys and just in what it commands and forbids. When Allah completed the religion for Muslims, His favor became complete for them as well. Allah said,(This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.) meaning, accept Islam for yourselves, for it is the religion that Allah likes and which He chose for you, and it is that with which He sent the best of the honorable Messengers and the most glorious of His Books. Ibn Jarir recorded that Harun bin `Antarah said that his father said, "When the Ayah,(This day, I have perfected your religion for you...) was revealed, during the great day of Hajj (the Day of `Arafah, the ninth day of Dhul-Hijjah) `Umar cried. The Prophet said, `What makes you cry' He said, `What made me cry is that our religion is being perfected for us. Now it is perfect, nothing is perfect, but it is bound to deteriorate.' The Prophet said,

(You have said the truth.)'' What supports the meaning of this Hadith is the authentic Hadith,

(Islam was strange in its beginning and will return strange once more. Therefore, Tuba for the strangers.)

Imam Ahmad recorded that Tariq bin Shihab said, "A Jewish man said to `Umar bin Al-Khattab, `O Leader of the Believers! There is a verse in your Book, which is read by all of you (Muslims), and had it been revealed to us, we would have taken that day (on which it was revealed) as a day of celebration.'

`Umar bin Al-Khattab asked, `Which is that verse' The Jew replied, s(This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you...) `Umar replied, `By Allah! I know when and where this verse was revealed to Allah's Messenger . It was the evening on the Day of `Arafah on a Friday.''' Al-Bukhari recorded this Hadith through Al-Hasan bin As-Sabbah from Ja`far bin `Awn. Muslim, At-Tirmidhi and An-Nasa'i also recorded this Hadith. In the narration collected by Al-Bukhari in the book of Tafsir, through Tariq, he said, "The Jews said to `Umar, `By Allah! There is a verse that is read by all of you (Muslims), and had it been revealed to us, we would have taken that day (on which it was revealed) as a day of celebration.' `Umar said, `By Allah! I know when and where this verse was revealed and where the Messenger of Allah was at that time. It was the day of `Arafah, and I was at `Arafah, by Allah.'' Sufyan (one of the narrators) doubted if Friday was mentioned in this narration. Sufyan's confusionwas either because he was unsure if his teacher included this statement in the Hadith or not. Otherwise, if it was because he doubted that the particular day during the Farewell Hajj was a Friday, it would be a mistake that could not and should not have come from someone like Sufyan Ath-Thawri. The fact that it was a Friday, is agreed on by the scholars of Sirah and Fiqh. There are numerous Hadiths that support this fact that are definitely authentic and of the Mutawatir type. This Hadith was also reported from `Umar through various chains of narration.