Interfaith Dialogue - Ishmael & Ishaq

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Ishmael & Ishaq

Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7185
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Topic: Ishmael & Ishaq

Posted By: Yusef Yahya
Subject: Ishmael & Ishaq
Date Posted: 14 October 2006 at 10:46am

Assalam'alikum.. can u tell me in shorted details(with some trusted links..islamic & nonIslamic if possible) about what should corrected in minds of christians about relation between these 2 noble prophets?,, & that Abraham is father of jews.. & the land is for them forever,,God gives them..etc

thanx..

Replies:

Posted By: air_one
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 4:10am

Well from the top of my head i can say that both Ismail (AS) and Ishaq (AS) are brothers. They share the same father Ibrahim (AS) but they had different mothers.

The children of israel (jews) came from Ishaq. Allah promised them the land (holy land) as long as they were believers.

Thats all i know :P

Someone pls correct me if im wrong :)

Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 7:06am

Ishmael is written out of Genesis. He is never referred to by name after the binding of Isaac.

It is also worth noting that the theme of the second son receiving the blessing occurs again with Isaac's sons Esau and Jacob.

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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.

Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 8:49am

Hi David,

Yes, Ishmael is written off. Upto that period, it was either the boy from the slave woman or the boy from the free woman.

What surprises me is the theme of the second son receiving the blessing occured to the twins of Issac and Rebeka. Specially after Jacob gave a bowl of red bean soup to his starving brother on condition that he gave up his birth right to let him be the First born of Issac. Remember that Essau came out first, followed by Jacob who was clinging onto Essau's heels.

What is your view about this, David?

BMZ

Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 16 October 2006 at 4:25am

The theme of the barren woman and the younger son occurs three times during Genesis if you include Joseph.

Both the woman and the younger son are symbolic of Israel. The younger son gets a comeuppance in all three. Isaac has his blessing stolen, Jacob is tricked into marrying Leah instead of Rachel, and Joseph is sold into slavery.

I think the point is that God intervened directly to assist in the success of Israel, and although God requires justice he also extends his grace towards sinners.

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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.

Posted By: Bismarck
Date Posted: 19 October 2006 at 11:28pm

DC, you are wrong when you say, "Ishmael is never referred to by name
after the binding of Isaac (Gen 22). For in Genesis 25 we read:

Genesis 25:9
His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of
Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite

Ishmael would in no way have buried his father were he not in Good
Standing w/ Abraham, fully Abraham's recognized son and heir. R. E.
Friedman says as much in his Torah Commentary, that no animosity
is implied between the 2 brothers.

Entering the Documentary Hypothesis into the fray, these words are P. P
was written (down) under Hezekiah c. 700 BCE. Thus, even after the fall
of the Northern Kingdom, there was still no animosity between Ishmael
and Isaac. Any dischord was introduced into the narrative after Hezekiah.

The reason the OT focuses on Isaac is b/c it was the history of Israel, not
Arabia. But, as indicated by P in isolation, in the time of Hezekiah,
the story basically introduced Ishmael, had him receive the covenant of
circumcision (Gen 17) and then he essentially lives happily ever after, at
which point we return to the proto-Israelites. There is no animosity, just
understandable selective focus. Note that P is the best preserved OT
"Gospel", which is why Ezra, as a Priest (P), used P as his "chassis" for his
Redaction (R) c. 450 BCE.

Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 20 October 2006 at 7:32pm

By dingies, Bismark, you are right, That's what I get for working from memory.

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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.