Salaam alaikum Angel

I am African American, a convert Muslim of 7 years, married six years, and a mother of one daughter.  My husband is native African from the West African Nation of Senegal. So this is where I'm comming from as I try to offer some positive less discriminatory advice.

1. You mentioned you just lost your farther ra, I also recently lost my mother a year ago.  Speaking from personal experience of going through the grief, depression, and despair- I would encourage you not to make any major life decisions right now, be sure you are truly in your right mind.  If you are depressed about your farthers death which is normal and you may not realize it, seek professional help and build a positive support system with Muslimas who are happy with Allah, happy with life in general, and who will benefit you. Some people may not even realize they are depressed becuase they are in the midst of their depression looking out while others are looking in. Trust me I've been there.

2. You mentioned your age.  In the end, you will do what you want to do, becuase it's your life. You may want to get into a womens support group even with non-Muslims and take your time and figure out who you are, what you truly want, and where you are going. Did your upbringing prepare you for marriage and family or did it prepare you for college and career?

3. Let me tell you, when you start having children, you are going to need your mother. It's easy to say things now but wait until you are trying to push out a baby or lying on a surgery rome or better yet wait until the baby is waking you up every hour and your husband has to work so you have no one to take care of you and help you out. You are going to need your family sister. It's unhealthy for a couple not have any type of support system.

4. I'm not going to assume or slander a brother I don't even know. AstafurdeAllah. We don't know if you two are mixing at least alone. We aren't there but you sure are.  Not all Muslim scholars prohibit dating provided that other things are in place such as chaperones, meeting in public places with a relative, or comming over for dinner in a relatives house.  You need to decide for your self what you are comfortable with and what you feel would strengthen your relationship with Allah. Always, always put Allah first.

continued 

ued

5. Marriage is allot of hard work and you have to give every single day.  There are many externals pressures on todays American families.  Interacial marriages, interfaith marriage, and intra culture marriages are fragile however there are some who are strong and are happy becuase they prepared for it correctly. Not all interacial or interfaith marriages are miserable and unhappy.  I encourage you along with a relative and the brother you are interested in to talk to other Muslim couples who are in interracial marriages and seek advice from them. It doesn't help when people who have or are not in a such a relationship to advise you.

6.  I my self am in an intra cultural marriage.  My husband and I may share the same skin tone but we are totally different aside from the usual differences in a marriage.  Early in our marriage we did experience cultural clashes, misunderstandings, and communication problems.  However, because we are Muslim, becuase we are mature, we had enough eman to be patient, compassionate, accepting, and loving. We didn't enter marriage with the delusions of changing one another alhamdilal we accepted and respected each other for how Allah created us.  My husband has his own nation, language, history, culture, customs and variations in intepreting Islam.

7. In my seven years of being Muslim, I have seen some serious bull hokey go on with the so called immigrant community and the black Muslim community. In my opinion both sides are acting immature and cruel. I do know that many Arabs are taught that a non Arab is not equal to an Arab.  I know many Pakistani's are taught dark skin means you are defective. I have a white American girl friend married to a Jordanian brother.  When she first become Muslim all of the Arabs and Pakistani's told her to not mix with black Muslim people at all. You my dear sister are fighting a battle that has been going on for decades in the Muslim community starting back to the Nation of Islam. (And yes I know they aren't Muslim) It's pathetic fact but Muslims are even more racist than there white non Muslim counter parts. In addition to that, parents are passing the distorted and unfound beliefs about blacks from one generation to the next. The fact of the matter dear sister is it isn't changing any time soon. I'd give a good fifty years if we don't kicked out of the U.S. first, but most likely it will take as longer possibley longer than what it took for non Muslim whites to marry non-Muslim blacks.

I can not stress how important character and integrity are to marriage. My husband and I are good people who had our fair share of major challenges both internally and externally. Because we have good hearts, becuase we are not ugly, treacherous, cruel, angry people we have made it to where we are and thank Allah swt every day for each other and we thank Allah for all of our trials. Ma'sha'Allah. Honoring all verbal and written agreements, being honest at all times, reliable and trust worthy, responsible and self motivating, and merciful with compassion go a very long way in sustaining a marriage.

The best advice I can give you is to consult a professional not because I think you're crazy but because I think you're smart. At least with what ever choice you make, you made it in a healthy frame of mind, and had professional help in doing so.

Salaam

Salaam Angel

I wanted to add something else

Be prepared for these arguements:

Delusion no 1

" Don't marry an African American male convert because he may apostate from Islam and black men don't even go to their own church."

Reality Check

" Many birth Muslims are in a serious state of prolonged kufr not making any effort to heal and move forward, they are quite content being disaffected. They may not verbally apostate but there life style and life decisions scream apostation from miles away. It's not limited to black converts it's everybody."

Delusion no 2

" Don't marry black Muslim men because they force their women to work and don't keep a steady job, you will always suffer."

Reality Check

" In mainstream Muslim communities black people become Muslim while they are in a college and even, in addition to that in the non Muslim community at large most upper middle class black men are in both interacial and interfaith relationships, and many of the middle class blacks came from two parented traditional homes in which the mother stayed home."

Delusion no 3

" Don't marry black Muslim men because they are violent and hoodlums."

Reality Check

" Main mainstream Islamic assocations have 'declared war' on domestic violence and admit it is a major problem. The majority of these assocations are predominately arab, pakistani, and malaysian."

Delusion no 4

" If you marry a black Muslim man your children will be ugly and dark no one will want them."

Reality Check

" The ambassador from Saudia Arabia is black! Not only that there are dark skinned or brown skineed Arabs, Pakistani's, and indonesians. And they are married so obviously some body wanted them."

I have heard these "delusions" over and over again even amongst white converts.

It is this sick psychology that I must equip my own children to repel and rise above so that their self esteem and heart doesn't become broken because they never had a chance from the beginning. Never mind the little black boys and girls be they native African or African American never mind their humanity, never mind their feelings, their worthless any way right? Very sick psychology and NOTHING in Islam justifies racism what so ever, who are says so is a LIAR or MUNAFIK the Prophet sws clearly state that a white is not better than a black and a black is not better than a white. There is no way that can be misunderstood.

Glad I will be moving to Senegal, thank goodness my children wont have to experience this bull hockey.

You are moving to Senegal? That's nice. Maybe you'll get a chance to pop down to The Gambia and visit me. Sorry angelino, I know this isn't part of the topic.

 Concerning your question, do your uncle and mother feel that the man is a good muslim? What are their reasons for not allowing you to marry him. If they are only racial reasons then I feel you should persist an hold your ground and or ask your Imam for help. If intercultural or interracial marriages coulnd't be succesful, The Messenger of Allah would have advised against it. Don't let the bigotry continue. May Allah guide and help you. Make istikharah also.

Salaams and Bismillah,

Dear sister,

You've been given a lot of really good advice.  Think about it clearly.  Are you close to your mom?  Then I would really consider marrying someone who she is also happy with if you can.  And be patient.  Maybe she will change her mind in a year or two if she sees this man waiting patiently for you.

Salaams

As'Salaamu Alaikum Wa' Rahmatullahi Wa' Barakatullah

I did promise to stay away from posting my opinions but I had to respond to this because this is HIGHLY offensive to me. Comments such as: You've been given a lot of really good advice.  Think about it clearly.  Are you close to your mom?  >>>Then I would really consider marrying someone who she is also happy with if you can.<<<<

And comments such as: >>>With about half of all marriages in this country ending in divorce, your family's objections are legitimate in my opinion.  I believe that most successful marriages are those in which couples share common ethnicities.<<<<

Are the reasons why I myself am slipping away from the community of Islam. The person who actually gave the best advice was UmmAminata as she dispelled the previous arguments regarding African-American men. I myself being African-American male is very much educated. Steady Job. Also I have a two story house and very much living comfortable. I paid the house with all the hard work that I've done and right now I'm persuing my doctorate in Philosophy (also contemplating Psychology as well). My point is, is that if we do things such as getting married to those that our parents feel happy we are with we are not getting married for a legitimate reason. I think that marriage is about what we want in a spouse not what our parents feel is best for us.

Brother Abuayisha no offense, but your thinking culturally, not rationally. Just because you cite a fallible statistics upon American divorce does not mean that, such a statistic has to be apart of this young girls reality. The world thinks half of Muslims are terrorist, but does this make this statistic true? No. Don't look to statistics to reflect upon what trully is even if the statistics are based on valid information. Look to what your heart is and judge your heart with his as well as what his intentions are for you in marriage. If he truly loves you and if your Deen is compatible with his and if he has goals for himself then his efforts for his goals will reflect on marriage.

What I will adivse is the only difficulty you'll find is if you live under your mothers roof then the decision will be hard for you especially if your mother provides a roof over your head. Your decision may result (which Middle Eastern and Far Eastern people do) in your family disowning you or kicking you out of the house. Not saying that is what they'll do, but that is a reality some interracial couples face. The decision is yours but before you even consult your earthly parents, consult with the Creator first.

Another thing I'd like to refute especially some of the irrational patterns of thinking I've seen offline and on this particular site is that marriage is not about one's ethnic group as sister UmmAminata states. Marriage is about adding to the spiritual connection one has with the Creator as well as to develope a spiritual bond. We all are humans and we all came from one substance. Just because our cultures are different doesn't mean that our lives will be difficult. Part of Jihad is to overcome difficulty and I can relate this to marriage. Also, Compatibility does not equal a successful marriage. I'm sure brother abuayisha would like to confirm that there are high rates of domestic violence within Arab communities. Of course, don't take my word for it, do the reasearch.

Again, consult with God first, not your mother. Even if your mother dislikes this man that is usually the inital phase based off her (my apologies for sounding mean) own ignorance. If your mom only thinks in categories and only inward she is very much close-minded. If she is Muslim she fails to understand part of the Qur'an. We all are children of Adam and are a family within the bossom of Islam, therefore our success is not based off our external judgements upon each other but as individuals and as humans. Again this forum fails to promote such true Islamic thinking.

Are the reasons why I myself am slipping away from the community of Islam.

Don't leave brother! We need Muslim men like you! Think about the black Muslim children brother They need you brother! The immigrant Muslim community doesn't truly demonstrate any serious concern about the spiritual well being of our children, only if it benefits their community financially.

I think that marriage is about what we want in a spouse not what our parents feel is best for us.

I'm responding to this strictly from an Islamic theological perspective. Based off what I have studied the marriage guardian {Walee} of the female is a male relative which often is her farther, uncle, brother, grand farther. It is the obligation of the marriage guardian to find a suitable match for their female guard. It is his obligation to find a mate based off a standard (Islam) of what is considered healthy and appropriate for her. This is where this can get tricky, because in Islam, the marriage literally is of two families comming together. How ever, no where do the standards dismiss or totally disregard black skinned people. People complain about bidah, well if this isn't bida I don't know what is. I would like to state that in the Reliance Of The Traveller translated by Sheik Nuh Ha Mim Keller that he does state a Arab can not marry a non Arab- however there is no sahih narration provided and the method of this decision is not sound. Please see your nearest sheik.

Just because you cite a fallible statistics upon American divorce does not mean that, such a statistic has to be apart of this young girls reality.

Lol! I missed that one! You know what's so funny... the three major reasons given by crediable actuaries are 1) Infidelity 2) Money 3) Children/ Mixed families! Race has nothing to do with the splits! You can see a study from Reuter's. lol !

Your decision may result (which Middle Eastern and Far Eastern people do) in your family disowning you or kicking you out of the house. Not saying that is what they'll do, but that is a reality some interracial couples face.

This is why I'm advising this young lady to consult a professional counselor and try to establish some type of support system for her self especially if she becomes a mother. The hatred of our people amongst Middle Eastern and Far Eastern is worse than the KKK! See for ya self!

marriage is not about one's ethnic group as sister UmmAminata states.It sure is NOT! Let me tell you... when challenges, obstacles, pain, suffering, which happen to every human in what we call the reality of life, your ethnicity can't help solve a dang thang - that's for sure.

Ethncity can't pay the bills, ethncity can't sooth a crying baby, ethncity can't increase your eman, ethncity can't bring tenderness and intimacy, just can't!

Compatibility does not equal a successful marriage

We all are children of Adam and are a family within the bossom of Islam, therefore our success is not based off our external judgements upon each other but as individuals and as humans. Again this forum fails to promote such true Islamic thinking.

Brother- you are talking about what Sheik Hamza Yusuf calls " Meritourious Chilvary" unfortunately unlike the non-Muslim community which has made concerted efforts to seek healing and reconcilation, I'm afraid it ain't happening any time soon in the Muslim community. A few success stories but that's about it.

I myself being African-American male is very much educated. Steady Job. Also I have a two story house and very much living comfortable. I paid the house with all the hard work that I've done and right now I'm persuing my doctorate in Philosophy (also contemplating Psychology as well).

Brother... you are falling into that trap... You shouldn't even have to explain your self or justify- you are an adult, not a teenager or a dog. This reminds of that time during Mr. Luther King's marches when black men stood outside of federal buildings with signs in bold that said I AM A MAN. This is what you are getting at it subconsciously.

Brother a few other thoughts come to my mind on this subject.  I'm not sure how well educated the Arab, Indo/Paki, Far eastern communities are of American history, but they are teaching word for word "Miscnegation." Remeber those days black men had to hide for fear of being lynched or murdered for being with a white woman? Or black women had to hide for fear of being gang raped for dating a white man. Many of these people don't realize they are teaching miscnegation, and the aren't aware of the painful psychological issues associated with such teaching. They lack sensitivity regarding our community historically, yet cry racism at the drop of that hat if they are profiled by a Air line security agent or refused a job because their name is "Osama" or "Muhammad."

I'm not sure if you're farther, but just imagine your son being eliminated from the possibility of a basic human need " love and companionship" because he is black? Or your daughter being considered defected and her womb un worthy because she is black? Think about it from this point of view, and pull the depths of your soul as a parent instead of a Muslim.

I plan on having more children before my biological ticks off, what if I have a son the next time? It's hard enough being a black man. It doesn't matter how much wealth, status, and education you attain there is always that shadow.

continued..

During Ramadan I was at the masjid and in the women's section it can be rather chaotic due to small children, and due to adults who act like children. To make a long story short, there was a nine month old ethiopian baby boy crawling on the floor by his mother who was eating. A Pakistani sister saw the boy, walked right on top of him, and kept going. Next, the mother and some other sisters of all races started screaming at the sister, meanwhile the boy is on the floor crying, and some body screams call the ambulance! What a Ramadan hunh? To make matters worse the lady just rolls her eyes and keeps walking toward the food.  A older Pakistani woman goes to her and ask her to apologize and respect the house of Allah. She refuses. As she walks to find a seat on the floor across the room she accidentally knocks over a little arab girl just starting to walk. She picked up the little girl, gave her kiss, and apologized to the mother.  Seeing this, the ethiopian mother, threw her food across the room- and well, after that I grabbed my daughter and ran to the nearest subway!

Some people are truly disturbed brother. This is why I will not allow my daughter to attend any Islamic schools what so ever. I've heard and seen horrific things occur. What I know for sure is that if anyone ever did that my child especially a baby...

well...

You know that " ol sayin bout mamas with shot guns."

I know my self very well, and if anybody every did that to any of my children, they will see the mother bear unleashed and it won't be a very pretty site. Hate to sound violent on ya but if you mess with my babies you mess with my emotions and that is all she wrote.

Slaam

Assalamu Alaikum,

Here is a quote from Prophet's ( SAW ) last sermon:

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white (person) has no superiority over a black (person) nor a black has any superiority over a white except by piety and good action. Learn that Muslims are brothers to each other and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly."

And there is a hadith:

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 27:

Salaam O Alaikum Taliyya

I'll never for that Ramadan as long as I live. This Masjid is notorious for fitnah. One sister came to the masjid with a gun ready to shoot her co-wife?!

I do not go any where near that masjid, and they are constantly being investigated by the FBI all the time. I'm going to assume the fitnah there is just there.

I am never sending any of my children to any Islamic function by themselves, if I can't go they aren't going. I'd rather send them to a bible study instead.

Salaam O Alaikum Brother Peace Maker Thank you for sharing the beautiful words of the Prophet sws. Here's the thing brother...

I know that no community is perfect and pristine. We are human and are bound to fail. But here's what I have always had a problem with concerning the Muslim community.  There is just a certian low level of behaviour ( beligerence, obnoxiousness, cruelty, and verbal abuse) that is just totally disgraceful to any community claiming to have truth and living it. As long as people behave this way our community will never succeed. I respect that people have their racial preferences concerning marriage and it's their perrogative, but to spiritually cut off a large population of the creation is really terrible.

I believe people should marry who they want to marry. It's one thing to have preferences and it's another to have predjuices.

Salaam o alaikum

Salaamu Alaykum,

Dear Angelina,

Please remember to pray for guidance and to be patient.  Life is filled with difficult choices that when we make them, we are more blessed when we take responsibility for what we choose. 

 Each action will have a consequence, and this is the true fairness life hold out for us.  It's hard to get everything or even half of everything we want in life.  Again, Pray for guidance; breathe deeply; don't panic; be patient and be strong.

And choose a Quran study with calm people if you can find one!  Quranic recitation classes enriched my soul, and they would help you as well.  But there are classes on line as well.  And at the very least, listen to a recitation that you like.  In Shah Allah, it will calm, comfort, and guide you.

Assalamu Alaikum,

Since it seems your mother and uncles are dismissing this brother soley because of his ethnicity, I can never agree with how they feel.  Aren't we suposed to better ourselves?  Aren't we in this forum to spread true Islam?  There are so many people out there who have the character and commitment to make marriages work, even with racial differences.  In the end we're all judged on our intentions.  If you are attracted to a certain looking man that's one thing and everyone has their own physical preferences and we're all entitled to them, but lets not let it fall into flat-out racism.  If you don't have a common ethnicity in common and there are certain issues you'll have to deal w/ in a marriage, just remember this man could at the same time have more qualities and strengths in other areas.  Just because another man may be Arab doesn't mean he's going to be a better husband. 

Salaam Sister

I was wondering where you were?

No one wants their parents to be upset with them- especially a Muslima. And there is no love like a mother's love that's for sure.

I really, really, believe that if you do decide to do this that both of you should seek professional pre-marital counseling and try to work through big challenges like this prior to marriage. A professional counselor may be able to help you help your family.

Trust in Allah.

Salaam

Salaam,

This is certainly my last post!

For those of you that very much dislike Western culture I'd like to say if there is anything you can learn it is the fact that at least from the intellectuals you can learn progressive thought. The problem with some immigrants that migrate to this country is they bring their 7 th Century Ethnocentrism style here. I note 7th Century because some of them think that way. Many dislike my comments because I keep it real and definitely honest about what I'm saying. In science they say the only thing that separate us from animals is our ability to reason. Well in accordance to marriage our reason is definitely not align with the credit that is given to humanity because we think very much on the outer not inner.

If we are to succeed as a true Islamic community we must start with our selves and give away our selfish desires by allowing ourselves to succumb to old ways which do not benefit us. I have to single out one who is Abuayisha who stated that there are more successful marriages with same ethnic relationships than there are interracial relationships. That may be true for now. However the gap of interracial relationships is getting much smaller everyday. Like I said compatibility does not equal success. I'd like to challenge anyone here who can prove to me that a marriage on the sole basis of race is the most successful. I swear by Allah on my soul that none of you can find one.

A relationship cannot work just by on ethnic ties. Even if there is commonality within the ethnic culture you still have personalities which are independent of themselves which require the individual to acquire such a personality. I won't go on and single out a specific culture but I'd like more of our immigrant friends to understand that humanity must not go on judging people from the outside. You women must be strong enough to make your own decisions as women. If you fear recompensation from your family then I'd say do not disobey them and forgo the marriage for now until an appropriate time.

If you cannot support yourself financially do not invoke the wrath of your parents but do not allow them to make decisions for you. In order to establish your own independence you must have the capability in making your own decisions. To judge a potential mate please consult with God first! It also helps in reading Qur'an and getting back to the basic understanding of Islam. I hope some of you who think in the 7th Century can get beyond your ways Godwilling.

I would suggest you talk with your mother about how
wrong her views are and educate her on what Islam really feels. Perhaps if she realizes that what she's doing is displeasing to Allah (swt) she in time can change. May Allah (swt) give you strength and make things easy for you. - JR

Sister if her mother truly cared about displeasing Allah she would never have this attitude about another Muslim she doesn't even know. The Qur'an is clear, our Prophet sws, is clear, this woman is disregarding the truth like many of us do. We pick and choose what part of this deen (which is supposed to be a protection not a weapon) we will practice.

Brother Israfil

Don't leave this community! I know people say shocking and immature things but be the bigger person and flex the adab Allah has granted you with. I haven't done such a good job myself but in sha'Allah, I'm working there.

Brother, your contribution to this discussion is was equally or even more important than the question it's self. Every one was talking about black men but not black came but you. Represent brother, your opinions do matter, and I'm not offended or angry with anything you said. Be aware that a young man or young woman could be reading your post and you could be effecting positive change, share your gifts brother.

The brother who made those comments is a product of his upbringing, and nation. Thankfully, not every one thinks like that. Forgive him, he's sick and doesn't understand. It's hard to undue 18 years plus of socialization from parents who taught racism.

I know it sounds like a run of the mill response but this is a test from Allah, and in sha'Allah -Allah intends all of us learn something before moving on to the next test.

Also, let's remember, marriage is a deeply personal and serious life decision. This is about choosing the parent of your children. That's really serious stuff so there is bound to be an array of opinions.

Salaam brother 

angelino wrote: we need that one arab rosa parks to start a change lol. thanks again. salams

It is not advisable to marry thinking that somehow you are making a social statement.  You would not be the first to enter into an interracial marriage.  This is not even a racial issue!  I am sure that if you wanted to marry a man who weighted 350lbs your family would suggest that you not marry him.  Are they against fat people?  Should you marry the fat man anyway to prove to society that weight- based discrimination is wrong?  I would not like my 19 year old son to marry a 40 year old woman.  Is this prejudice based upon age?  No.  I simply believe that my son would have a much more successful marriage with younger women.  Your family is concerned that you have a winning chance at marriage.  If you are from a rich family, they would object to your wanting to marry a poor individual.  If you were to one day obtain your PhD from the university and sought to marry the cute gardener; certainly they would suggest otherwise.

After the honeymoon stage of any marriage the more a couple has in common the more likely they are to successfully deal with the second phase of marriage.  This is the time after the honeymoon when we no longer say just sweet things to each other, when arguments and squabbles increase in frequency.  It is at this time that our similarity, such as age, race, education, and values becomes important. 

Don't deceive yourself into thinking by going against your family�s wishes you are becoming a rebel or social activist through marriage to an African American.  Marriage is about compatibility and not patronage, so make a wise choice.

It is not advisable to marry thinking that somehow you are making a social statement.  You would not be the first to enter into an interracial marriage. - abuayisha

I do not believe that this sister was implying that from that statement at all. I'm African American and if I felt that she was, I would have surely called her on it. That statement was a gesture of kindness, and cry for help from a young woman torn between what her fitrah knows is truth and what her family wants is not truth.

After the honeymoon stage of any marriage the more a couple has in common the more likely they are to successfully deal with the second phase of marriage.  This is the time after the honeymoon when we no longer say just sweet things to each other, when arguments and squabbles increase in frequency.  It is at this time that our similarity, such as age, race, education, and values becomes important.  -abuayisha

I respectfully disagree and here is why:

Per capita divorce rates 1990-2002:
1991, 0.47%
1992, 0.48%
1993, 0.46%
1994, 0.46%
1995, 0.46%
1995, 0.43%
1997, 0.43%,
1998, 0.42%,
1999, 0.41%,
2000, 0.41%,
2001, 0.40%,
2002, 0.38%
(Mostly from NCHS, some from Census Bureau's Statistical Abstract of the U.S., which often differs from NCHS by 0.01%)

"The National Center for Health Statistics recently released a report which found that 43
percent of first marriages end in separation or divorce within 15 years. The study is based on
the National Survey of Family Growth, a nationally representative sample of women age 15 to
44 in 1995. Bramlett, Matthew and William Mosher. "First marriage dissolution, divorce, and
remariage: United States," Advance Data From Vital and Health Statistics; No.323. Hyattsville
MD: National Center for Health Statistics: 2 1.

"Marriages are most susceptible to divorce in the early years of marriage. After 5 years, approximately10 % of marriages are expected to end in divorce - another 10 % (or 20 % cumulatively) are divorced by about the tenth year after marriage. However, the 30% level is not reached until about the 18th year after marriage while the 40% level is only approached by the 50th year after marriage." Rose M. Kreider and Jason M. Fields, "Number, Timing, and Duration ofMarriages and Divorces: 1996", U.S. Census Bureau Current Population Reports, February 2002, <http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p70-80.pdf> p. 18.

43% of first marriages end within 15 years.
Red states have a divorce rate 27% higher than blue states.
75% of all divorced people re-marry, half of them within three years.
"For Richer or Poorer", Illustration By Sarah Wilkins, in January/February 2005 issue of Mother Jones. <http://www.motherjones.com/news/exhibit/2005/01/exhibit. html>Quoted in a posting from Smart Marriages Listserv <http://archives.his.com/smartmarriages/>on Jan. 4, 2005.

http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html

And since there seems to be so much negativity concerning interracial marriages:

phone: 703-478-9191 ◦ fax: 703-709-0591

692 Pine Street ◦ Herndon, VA 20170

Copyright � 2004 Diversity Training Group, Inc.

 Marriage is about compatibility and not patronage, so make a wise choice. -abuayisha

According to your opinion, culture, and personal preferences it is, but not according to the Qur'an, and the life of the Prophet sws. Not according to reality which is conveyed in those stat's listed above.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that interracial, interfaith, or intercultural marriages are easy and a breez, they aren't- but so are most marriages.

• If your spouse committs adultery

your ethnicity won't help heal a broken marriage, and wounded heart.

• If your spouse looses their job

your ethnicity won't pay the house note.

• If your spouse becomes mentally or physically ill,

your ethnicity isn't going to cure or heal them.

• If you and your spouse are raising a special needs child or raising children with behavioural problems

your ethnicity won't help you cope, remain strong, and in control of the situation.

If you or your spouse isn't praying, fasting, honoring your agreements, being honest, and acting with dignity

Your ethnicity isn't going to perform the salah for you

Marriage isn't about your compatiability.  People do gain weight, people do age, people do loose jobs, homes, wealth, people do decide to not practice their culture, people do decide to not practice their religion- this universe is not statitic. People are not statitic. We either progress or regress. Most normal people gravitate between the two during a marriage. So if these things happen are you going to divorce because the person you married changed?

We were created to worship Allah. Marriage for Muslim is not about compatability. Marriage for Muslims is about strengthening our relationship with Allah, enjoying the fruits of love and companionship according to sheria, and raising righteous children who will benefit this world instead of take away from it. Marriage isn't a cosmetic institution that you can shoot botox into if you don't like it.

The bottom line is sustaining a marriage is about one's character, life skills, and about how connected you are to your Lord, and how much you fear him- that fear and love should be manifested in the way you care for your spouse, children, self, and other human beings in the world. Focusing on the race to the exclusion of other aspects of this young man is dehumanizing, unIslamic, and down right pathetic. I'm embarassed that people think this way and are teaching to other Muslims with no daleel what so ever.

I've made my case.

Salaam

And from one parent to another:

I have enough faith in Allah, and enough confidence in my skills, and abilities in rearing my child that I can trust that I raised her right. I don't need to project my personal insecurities, biases, onto my child. I'm better than that, and I sure in the heck know my child is better than that.

I am not here for my self, I am here for YAL-Malik, I am not here to dominate others to their injury and than hide behind cultural or "hislam" I'm here for Yal-Quddus. I know that my purpose is greater than getting caught up in hype and spin-

If my child or any subsquent children come to me wanting to marry another Muslim of another race, it's not a problem for me, because I trust that my child knows how to choose properly becuase I'm the one who raised her.

If my daughter put her self in a poor situation I would not blame her entirely, for she learned how to think, choose, and decide from the one who gave her life.

Muslim parents in America need to wake up and get a serious reality check before they push their own children out of this deen over st**id crap that won't matter when you're on your own death bed. At the end of the day, this young mans race doesn't matter.

I believe in honoring your parents, I'd give anything to just kiss my mother's feet, but she's gone now, and I accept that.

I hope and pray that my daughter will have enough guts to stand up to me and hold me accountable if I'm wrong- I'd be so proud of her. I'd be proud because I did what Allah told me to do.

Salaam

Asalaamu alaikum:

To the brother who thought that it was not proper for his son to marry an older woman....Do you happen to remember that we are advised to follow the example of the Prophet (pbuh)? Wasn't his first marriage to an older woman and considered very successful?

Thank you brother Peacemaker for the copy from the Last Sermon of the prophet. Ot is a timeless masterpiece. We need to recite it weekly at the Jummah gathering. A great Kutba, one of the greatest ever known. We need to practice it.

My best friend in the Ummah is African American, in fact most of my friends are. I am a blue eyed mixture of caucasion american and Turk, so I have black hair, olive skin and sky blue eyes. When I first joined the masjid I was ignored because I looked american...which I am, Alhamdullilah for The African sisters and my african american sisters, I love them dearly. Let no one EVER harm them or their children, I can get REALLY mean! My husband is Latino muslim, another rarity..his best friends in the Ummah? Guess again!

It seems that African American muslims are more accepting of those who may be different. I get the cold shoulders from the Arab and the Pakistani sisters,for the most part, that is fine. I will always greet them, if  they do not return the greeting or just "blow me off" that is fine, they have to answer for it at the Last Day, we all do.

Young sister, I am so sorry your mother is so hard-hearted about your possible marriage to this good brother. Maybe you should go to the page that has the sermon of the Last Prophet on this site and print it and leave it for your mother to read, evidently she has not read it. Find a wali and do what is best for you, make dua and follow the teachings of Allah. May he watch over you and allow the path that is best for you!

As-Salaam Alaikum,

I just wanted to sister angelino that I am a interracial relationship.  I just wanted to add my two cents.  First of all I want to say that just because you marry someone from the same background don't necessarily mean that you are compatible for that person.  Even though you come from the same culture or background people still have different taste.  My husband is from Pakistan, and I am African-American.  I have been married to him for four years, and we get along pretty good.  We have disagreements, in fact we had a disagreement last night.  It wasn't about culture, it was basically about me starting a online business through e-bay, and him just not agreeing with it.  Plus before we got engaged I prepared myself.  I knew that I was marrying someone from a different culture I basically learned how to make Pakistani food, and now I am a Pak-food addict.  I have no plans to go to a twelve program either.  Secondly, I don't tell him to forget about his Pakistani culture and he doesn't tell me to forget about mine.  I have Sari and Shalwar Kameez in my closet because I WANT THEM, AND I LIKE THEM.  He told me that he wanted a African outfit because he wanted one.  Secondly we go to African-American functions.  For example, every year he likes to go the Kwanzaa celebrations.  Everytime that time comes around he always wants to go.  We go to African World Festival every year in my state.  This past weekend we went to the KO-THI African Dance Concert, and he loved it.  He shared with me the similarities of the instruments and clothing that is found in his culture.  For example, the African men pants and Pakistani mens shalwar kameez pants looks similar.  Plus, I go to Pakistani functions.  Any functions that celebrate Pakistani cultures we always go to together.  anyway I will type more inshallah.  I have to get to work.  You was on my mind I had to type something fast.

Hakeema

Islam is a culture in which God is the motivation and the goal and all things in life are done in accordance to the teachings God has provided for humans, to me that is the best of all cultures and something both this young man and woman share.

Allahu Akbar

Main Entry: mis�ce�ge�na�tion

Pronunciation: (")mi-"se-j&-'nA-sh&n, "mi-si-j&-'nA-

Function: noun

Etymology: irregular from Latin miscEre to mix + genus race -- more at MIX, KIN

: a mixture of races; especially : marriage, cohabitation, or sexual intercourse between a white person and a member of another race

Merriam Websters Dicitonary Online

The word miscegenation quickly entered the common language of the day and became a popular buzzword in political and social discourse. For a century, it was common for white segregationists to accuse abolitionists, and, later, advocates of equal rights for African Americans, of secretly plotting the destruction of the white race through miscegenation.

One important strategy intended to discourage the practice was the promulgation of the one-drop theory, which held that any person with so much as "one drop" of African "blood" must be regarded as completely "black". After World War II, white segregationists commonly accused the U.S. Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King, Jr., of being part of a communist plot funded by the Soviet Union to destroy the "white United States" through miscegenation

In 1965, Virginia trial court Judge Leon Bazile sentenced to jail an interethnic couple who had married in Washington, D.C., writing:

Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, Malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.[1]

This decision was eventually overturned in 1967, 84 years after Pace v. Alabama, when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled unanimously in Loving v. Virginia that

Marriage is one of the 'basic civil rights of man,' fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law.

Sometimes the individuals attempting to marry would not be held guilty of miscegenation itself, but felony charges of adultery or fornication would be brought against them instead; Vermont was the only state to never introduce such legislation.

continued...

Reliance Of The Traveller

A Classical Manual Of Islamic Sacred Law

Translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller

pages 523-524 Marriage: A Suitable Match

m4.0-m4.5

KAFA'A

M4.1 Suitability concerns linegage, religiousness, profession, and being free of defects that permit annulling the marriage contract (def:m7) { N: As for color it is of no consideration in suitability.}

M4.2 The following are not suitable matches for one another:

(1) A non-Arab man for an Arab woman

" Allah has chosen the Arabs above others"

(2) Corrupt man for a virtuous woman

(3) A man of a lowly profession for the daughter of some one with a higher profession(A: an Islamic scholar is suitable for match for any level what so ever.)

(4) or some one with a defect that permits annulling the marriage (def:m7) for some one with out such defects

Being wealthy has nothing to do with suitability( O: for money comes and goes, and those with self-respect and intelligence do not take prinde in it), nor does being elderly.

m4:3 The marriage becomes invalid when ever a guardian marries he's charge to some one not suitable for her, if done with out both her acceptance and the acceptance of all who are eligible as guardians (def:m3:7) and are on the guardian level of relation to her(A: such as brothers) But if both parties agree, then the brides relavtives further than her marriage may not object.

m4:4 When the farther or farther's see that the best advantage is to be served by marrying a young boy to some one, they may do so, though they are not entitled to marry the child to some one with a physical defect that legally permits annulment to marriage.

m4:5 If a person is fool hardy (A) continously insane  but needs to marry, then his farther, grandarther or the Islamic magistrate may marry him to some one.  If they grant permission to the fool hardy person to marry him self, his marriage is valid, though if he does so with thier leave, it is invalid.

continued

(1) A non-Arab man for an Arab woman

" Allah has chosen the Arabs above others"

I mean no disrespect to Sheik Nuh but there is no daleel for this in this manual. There is no source such as Sahih Bukhari. I could not find this hadith in Sahih Bukhari nor could I find it the Muttwa of Imam Malik.

All three Imam's said that if anything they said contractdicted the Qur'an to reject it.

O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God's sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. [Koran, 49:13]

(3) A man of a lowly profession for the daughter of some one with a higher profession

Notice that wealth is not mentioned. The point here is education.

Sadly and unfortunately this thread is becoming derailed by a discussion on race relations.  We have a young girl who has recently lost her father, she is not in school and wanting to marry an African American man.  I am really troubled by her situation and feel that much of the specious arguments about race are inappropriate.  Our Prophet advised there is no superiority of white over black or black over white.  This does not mean that some do in fact feel that others are superior over themselves or that certain groups will not have inferior thoughts of themselves. 

I have found that �studies� state the obvious or are simply incorrect.  One study has found that interracial marriages fail at a higher rate.  That is my feeling. Another study has found that African American men marry outside their race higher than any other group.  Why is that?  Certainly that is a subject for another topic.

I am only prepared to believe that her family are honorable and have their daughters best interest in mind.  Why not start another discussion for race relations.

Sadly and unfortunately this thread is becoming derailed by a discussion on race relations. We have a young girl who has recently lost her father, she is not in school and wanting to marry an African American man. I am really troubled by her situation and feel that much of the specious arguments about race are inappropriate.

I have found that "studies" state the obvious or are simply incorrect. One study has found that interracial marriages fail at a higher rate. That is my feeling. Another study has found that African American men marry outside their race higher than any other group. Why is that? Certainly that is a subject for another topic.

I'm not a statisian so I can't debate the accuracy of actuaries with you. I'm going to address what you call a subject for another topic. I have to respectfully disagree with your position on that study about black men have the highest interracial marriages. The Census bureau states that inter-racial marriages with black men and the other are no more than I believe 10 to 20% a very low percentage. It may be even lower than that. Just becuase black American men choose to marry out side their race doesn't make them defected or untrustworthy nor does it mean black women are invaluable and unwanted. There are black American men who dislike black women due to cultural practices, certian mentalities, obesity, and the after affect of slavery and segregation. You speak in such a way as to imply like marrying an African American is not marry a human? The majority of black men marry white women or else because that is what they are honestly attracted to, and those black men who are upper middle class are in enviournments where black women may not be present. Example Republican Micheal Steel in Virginia. But I could also list Senator Barak Obama and His wife as an example of the same race marriage success story. You also need to understand that there are more women than men in most socieites, given that fact, many are free to choose spouses/mates/etc from a diverse picking so to speak they have more options.

I am only prepared to believe that her family are honorable and have their daughters best interest in mind. Why not start another discussion for race relations.

Our Prophet advised there is no superiority of white over black or black over white.  This does not mean that some do in fact feel that others are superior over themselves or that certain groups will not have inferior thoughts of themselves. 

Brother you are going to have to choose. You can't have it both ways. If you are trying to imply that black men have inferior thoughts of themselves and that is why they want spouses/mates from other races, than, you are very lost.

There are black Americans who feel inferior but where did that come from? It's not our fault.( I do not feel inferior at all)

There are White Christians who believe that black Americans convert to Islam on account of racism from the church. Some do and have. But to label all of us under that narrow view is to say that we don't have souls, that we don't care about salvation and a relationship with Yal-Aziz.

Like wise to imply this even if suttley is to say that black men don't carry about love, companionship, and procreation concerning marriage, when they do, and that is taken into account.

Black Americans have a culture just like white Americans and within that are sub cultures. Some Black American men may not be comfortable with THE CULTURE but it has nothing to do with THE COLOR OR RACE. Color and culture are two different things.

I myself don't like certian aspects of my culture!

See brother Isrifil, this is why I wanted you to stick around, because I knew it was going to hit here, I was just waiting for it.

Sadly and unfortunately this thread is becoming derailed by a discussion on race relations.  We have a young girl who has recently lost her father, she is not in school and wanting to marry an African American man.  I am really troubled by her situation and feel that much of the specious arguments about race are inappropriate.

As-Salaam Alaikum,

I noticed in your first reply to her you talked about race, and how people of different races shouldn't marry each other.  Why did you make that comment if race is an inapprociate topic.  You obviously thought it was appropriate, but when others disagreed with what you sad all of a sudden it became inapprociate

I just wanted to say to Sister Angelino if you are around.  I would follow Sister UmmAminata's advice she gave very good advice to you, and get your college education.  If you decide to marry this brother.  I would talk to people who are in successful interracial marriage.  I am in an interracial marriage myself as I stated before, and I am happy with my husband.  He is very good muslim brother, and he treats me nice.  You can pm me if you like.  There are other sisters on here who are in interracial marriages and they are also happy with their husbands.  A lady that I work with at my job is a white american and her husband is Mexican.  They have been married for twenty-five years.  In my opinion I think the only people you should seek advice regarding interracial marriage is people who are in it, as Sister UmmAminata also stated. 

Hakeema

hakeema wrote:   You obviously thought it was appropriate, but when others disagreed with what you sad all of a sudden it became inapprociate

This is a classic case of projecting your own feelings on someone else.  Perhaps having people agree with you is important. I have little interest in being agreed with here.  Clarity is what is important and the life of this young woman who sought our help.  Some Americans are very sensitive to race issues and in this discussion it is misplaced. So, "sigh" I guess I'm not making myself clear.

Brother Abuayisha, Hakeema is not projecting her personal feelings onto you. You are becomming paranoid and defensive because you know you are wrong. You are in a deep state of denial about what type of person you are. You can't change what you don't acknowledge.

Let's see how you have projected your own feelings onto a stranger:

I believe that most successful marriages are those in which couples share common ethnicities.

You brought up ethnicity first..

If you are unable to secure approval heed their advice and do not marry the African American

It may be just me but the way you write " The African American" sounds awfully cold ..

I think it is important to mention, that many times when attraction relationships are developed, it through un-islamic means: dating, frequent e-mails/telephone contacts, flirting and physical contact. All of these are not appropriate for someone who is "very religious"

Projection? How's this for projection? Did she ever imply this was going on? You have put down a brother you don't even know? E-mails and telephone calls are not harram or un islamic. Being alone with the other is harram or unislamic.

Will this man be there for you when your family isn't?:"We told you not to marry him" will be their response.

Well according to you her family sure won't be. That's real mature and Islamic! Way to go! Hip Hip Hurray!!! Tha'ts how you resolve problems just run away from them. Are you implying that because he is black he won't be there for her? What else are we supposed to think?

You will be forced to depend to heavily upon your husband for support. Men are very supportive before marriage and up until the honeymoon ends, but afterwards will he possess the level of maturity necessary for such a relationship?

I respectfully disagree with you. This isn't even true for most men. Are you saying that he won't possess the level of maturity required because he's black? If it were because of his youth, you have good arguement depedening on his backbround experience.

continued..

We have a young girl who has recently lost her father, she is not in school and wanting to marry an African American man.  I am really troubled by her situation and feel that much of the specious arguments about race are inappropriate. 

If you are truly concerned for her, than why don't you deal directly with the issue of dealing with her grief/loss issues and seeking support? I've never saw you write anything about that? The truth is you're concerned about her marrying "The African American."

And you make seem to suttley  imply through other statements that this young man is some how manipulating her or taking advantage of her. Projection yet again!

Maybe this man is sincere in his intentions of marriage. Maybe they have bonded because perhaps he understood her feelings of loss and grief more than anyone around her? Maybe he doesn't realize or even know proper Islamic adab? Maybe he's trying to play the hero because he feel bad! Allahualim but I'm going to remain committed to believing this young man is honerable and does care for her.

Also, let's not ever forget, the one who rocks the cradle rules the world, women of any age, can be very controlling, pushy, and also manipulating for all we know, it could be her more than him.

Salaam

I call it a truce!

Sister Angelino

This is my last post to you concerning this issue. If you care for my humble attempts to offer support feel free to pm me.

Aside from this crazy racail arguments, I wanted to talk about your feelings. You have just lost your farther, and you may unconsciously be seeking a farther figure to cope with you grief. It's normal for girls your age to do this if they loose a farther during this time. I really, really, want you to be totally real with yourself, and ask yourself why you want to get married now? I want to make sure that you know there is no love like a farthers love. A husband can never compare. He won't be able to give you that type of love. Don't use marriage as an escape from  your grief and loss over your farther, it will backfire on you, not because this man is black, but because you will eventually work through your stages of grief and become healthy in which you may regret your decision for a number of reasons.

I really really encourage you see a grief counselor, even if it's at church! It's important that you sort through that first before becomming a wife and a mother, give your marriage a good start and a real chance.

Secondly, you mentioned you weren't in school. The more educated you are, the better a wife and mother you can be. Your education will serve as a type of insurance bond, available to use if y ou should ever need it. College is a wonderful experience. I did not attend college traditionally, but I still enjoy my studies very much. You may want to consider college, or vocational school prior to marriage. Once you become a mother that's it. Some women can multi-task with out it negatively affecting the child and some can't do it. The less committments you have the easier it may be. And if as being predicted here your family is going to abandon you, your education is even more crucial.

On the issue of your family abandoning you, this will come back to kick you in your but if you don't have a strong, and trustworthy support system for your self, and the marriage. Note, there should be two seperate support systems here. Childbearing, illness, disability, death, or just the lemons of life, will require that you have support so that you can meet the demands. The last thing you want is to become both internally and externally depleted! I'd try to rally any family to your side that you can and ask for a pledge of support.

And finally, if you know how important your family is to you, and you want them and him, ask yourself how much you care about his happiness, will they abuse him or the children? Will they make life miserable and unbearable? That alone can cause allot of strain on the marriage. Will they harm your children's emotional and spiritual well being? Only you know the truth here. If the anserw is yes, think about how that will him and your offspring feel. If your not strong enough to cope with it and not allow it to control your marriage and life, than you really shouldn't do it. It would just be a divorce waiting to happen.

And finally, be careful sister, be very careful with your life. Some decisions can't be undone.

Salaam

Mr Abuayisha,

It appears that you are digging yourself in a depper hole. This situation perhaps is not solely about race, but at the same time we only know what we know based on the information that is provided. You constantly attempt to draw on other things when your position is refuted. You barely mentioned her father in one sentence!

You said: We are very sorry to hear that you lost your father and certainly your uncles and mom must feel an extra sense of responsiblity concerning your affairs.

Now its obvious that when your position is threatened you then now mention that the forum here is not about race but about other issues, yet the situation is about race! The situation that is being commented on is done so based upon the information that this young lady has provided. If this young lady says that she wants to marry someone non-Arab and her family doesn't want her to marry a non-Arab then, with that being said I'll take it for what it is.

I apologize to Ms. Angelino and you have my condolences on the loss of your father. I'm sure your at a difficult position. What I can say which I agree with Mr. Abuayisha is that do not make choices based on pure emotion. You must calculate your priorities and what you want. If you wish to marry, then do so but approach that decision cautiously and KNOW your consequences if you choose to go that route. Forget interracial marriages because marriage in itself is hard. I've never been married but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see some unhappy married couples who fight over differences.

I believe that if the gentleman was an Arab I'm sure Mr. Abuayisha's remarks would be a whole lot different. It's sad to see that people like Mr. Abuayisha and those who think like this respectable individual.....I call him respectable because regardless of my difference he is still respectable. The saddest thing we males can teach our women is to judge other human beings on the outside. Even the money issue bugs me. The Islamic criteria of a man in regards to supporting his wife is being a provider. To be a provider doesn't mean you have to be educated or even be wealthy. For some, this type of family structure is an innate trait in all humans.

When we start getting into the particulars of what a potential mate should be then we are thinking based on "feeling" and what our ethnic culture tells us. As Mr. Abuayisha admits most of his statements are based on "feelings" these emotions are definitely subject to fallibility of course. But what I've learned in this life in the 24-going on 25 years I've been on this planet is thaty no matter how many valid arguments you can present to these individuals their mindset will not change. The best advise I can provide for this young lady is to sit down with your parents and discuss your feelings. Tell them how you feel and how their approach to this young man makes you feel.

DO NOT DO THINGS TO MAKE OTHERS HAPPY!

If we all go through life doing things to make others happy whether its marrying  someone other people think is good for us, our choices would be null and would not be sincere. For example if I help people across the street only because I know I'm being watched by others and they'll be happy with me my actions are not of my own but from my vanity. I as a Westerner do not think marrying someone just because our parents choose them is a good idea because it robs us from our own free choices. I can at least value that in American society. I'm glad I live in a country where my surrounding and my country does not force me to choose options not of my own construct.

I'm glad America has many diverse cultures because it gives me not only option but it also educates me in cultural relations. Only TRADITIONAL Arabs Europeans, Asians (South Asians) and those in between think about particulars such as honor, wealth, status, education but if all these are not perform within the confines of Islam they are all for naught. Happiness excels far great than wealth or what an individual's status is. Don't look at statistics but write yout own history. Ok I'm done with this...Finally!