ak_m_f wrote:     Anti-Muslim Groups Unite Through Internet     By Dean E. Murphy, New York times     Web site run by militant Hindus in Queens and Long Island was recently shut down by its service provider because of complaints that it advocated hatred and violence toward Muslims. But a few days later, the site was back on the Internet. The unlikely rescuers were some radical Jews in Brooklyn who are under investigation for possible ties to anti-Arab terrorist organizations in Israel.     The unusual alliance brings together two extreme religious philosophies from different parts of the world that, at first glance, have little in common. But living elbow-to-elbow in the ethnic mix of New York, the small groups of Hindus and Jews have discovered that sharing a distant enemy is sufficient basis for friendship.     So tight is their anti-Muslim bond that some of the Hindus marched alongside the Jews in the annual Salute to Israel Parade on Fifth Avenue last month. Yesterday, several of the Jews joined a protest outside theUnited Nations against the treatment of Hindus in Afghanistan by the Taliban regime.     "We are fighting the same war," said Rohit Vyasmaan, who helps run the Hindu Web site, HinduUnity.org, from his home in Flushing, Queens. "Whether you call them Palestinians, Afghans or Pakistanis, the root of the problem for Hindus and Jews is Islam."     The budding Hindu-Jewish relationship presents a view that counters a popular perception of New York City not as an open door to immigrantsseeking a better life, but as a political way station, where some people come or stay not to make money but to engage in politics from afar.     For some of the Jews in Brooklyn and the Hindus in Queens and Long Island, their time in the United States is temporary, made necessary only because of the threat of Islam in South Asia and the Middle East. Ultimately, members of both groups said, they must leave New York to confront the enemy face-to-face.     "I would love to move back to India provided the situation improves there," Mr. Vyasmaan said. "We have made a promise to do so."     Mr. Vyasmaan, who is 30 and came to New York from New Delhi when he was 13, said matter-of-factly that he and many others expect to die in the battle for Hindu supremacy. Nonetheless, he is protective of the identities of some of HinduUnity.org's biggest financial backers.     Some of them have been implicated in Hindu nationalist acts in India and are only in the United States biding their time, he said. One of the site's major supporters on Long Island was involved in destroying an ancient mosque at Ayodhya in northern India in 1992, Mr. Vyasmaan said. The mosque was built on a site that is also holy to Hindus. The incident led to widespread rioting between Hindus and Muslims in India, and it isstill profoundly divisive.     "Now they won't let us build a temple at the site of the mosque," Mr. Vyasmaan said. "So there is more controversy. He plans to go back."     HinduUnity.org advertises itself as the official site of Bajrang Dal, a fundamentalist Hindu movement in India that has chapters throughout that country and has frequently clashed with Muslims and was among the groups blamed for the 1992 attack. The Web site also goes by the name Soldiers of Hindutva, a term that refers to the primacy of Hindu religion and culture. Mr. Vyasmaan said the Web site has 500 people affiliated with it.     The Jews in Brooklyn, meanwhile, are followers of Rabbi Meir David Kahane, the assassinated Israeli politician whose teachings advocated the expulsion from Israel of all Arabs, most of whom are Muslim.     Their headquarters in Brooklyn was raided in January by the F.B.I. as part of a federal investigation into their association with two Kahane political parties that were banned in Israel and designated as terrorist organizations by the State Department. The designations followed a series of violent attacks on Palestinians, including the killing in 1994 of 29 Muslims in the West Bank by Baruch Goldstein, a Kahane adherent who was born in Brooklyn.     Central to the Kahane message is that all Jews belong in Israel, making any Jew in the United States a temporary resident. Many of the group's biggest supporters shuttle back and forth between Israel and New York, keeping one foot in each country.     Rabbi Kahane was Brooklyn-born, as were many of his supporters, and was shot to death at a Manhattan hotel in 1990. His son, Binyamin, who took up his father's teachings, also carried an American passport but spent most of his time in Israel. He was killed with his wife when their car was ambushed in the West Bank in December.     During his last visit to New York, two weeks before his death, Binyamin Kahane reminded a gathering of several hundred supporters in Brooklyn of their obligation to settle in Israel.     The Brooklyn group runs a Web site, Kahane.org, that aims to keep the Kahane movement alive despite the political crackdown in Israel and the terrorist designations in the United States. The site's manager, Michael Guzofsky, said the Jewish-Hindu relationship in New York is a practical one that reflects a common suffering at the hands of Muslims. The alliance is born from adversity, he said, and transcends the differences in their religious traditions, which, he acknowledged, the two groups have never addressed in detail.     "I definitely understand their pain even if I don't know much about their faith," Mr. Guzofsky said of the Hindu fundamentalists. "Their Web site isa little more militant than ours, but an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth kind of speech is something you can find in the Old Testament. I am not going to judge people who have been oppressed by others and who fight back."     The Hindu Web site is up and running only because Mr. Guzofsky and other Kahane backers came to its rescue. Several weeks ago, the company that ran the site's Internet server, Addr.com of Greenwood Village, Colo., notified Mr. Vyasmaan that it was canceling its contract.     Matt Johnson, a representative of Addr.com, said that the company had received complaints about offensive content on the site, which contains historical accounts about Hinduism and the centuries-long conflict between Hindus and Muslims in South Asia. This week, a commentary on the site called on Hindus "to stand up and take arms" against Muslims in India,urging them to "exterminate and banish" them. The site also urged Hindus to "Fight if you must! Die if you must!"     Mr. Johnson said representatives from HinduUnity.org contended that the Web site was informational and did not advocate violence. But after three days of telephone calls between New York and Colorado, Mr. Johnson said, the company decided to pull the plug, saying that HinduUnity.org was a hate site.     When Mr. Vyasmaan got word of the decision, his first call was to Mr. Guzofsky's office at the Hatikva Jewish Identity Center in Brooklyn. Mr. Guzofsky had run into a similar problem in December, when he was forced to find a new server because of complaints about the Kahane site. Mr. Guzofsky was in Israel, but he returned the phone call within hours and quickly set out to solve Mr. Vyasmaan's problem.     The solution came by means of a businessman in Annandale, Va., Gary Wardell, who designs and services Web sites and who branched out into the server business last year. Mr. Wardell offered to help Mr. Guzofsky in December when he read about kahane.org's problems, eventually taking on the job as the Kahane site's host. Although Mr. Wardell said he is converting to Judaism from Christianity and has taken an avid interest in the teachings of Rabbi Kahane, he said his motivation in assisting Mr. Guzofsky was as much financial as religious.     "I am a small business and I need customers," Mr. Wardell said. "Sometimes when you have bills to pay, that takes the focus of your attention."     Early last month, when Mr. Guzofsky told him about HinduUnity.org, Mr. Wardell agreed to a similar business relationship for the same bottom-line reasons, he said.     Mr. Guzofsky said his group had not officially endorsed the views on the Hindu Web site, but they support the right of the Hindus to express them. For that reason, there is a link to HinduUnity.org on the Kahane Web site and, Mr. Guzofsky posted an announcement this week about the Hindu protest outside the United Nations.     "It is a core issue of free speech," Mr. Guzofsky said. "We have made it clear to the folks at HinduUnity.org that if their site ever comes down again, we will offer them a mirror site with ours so people can be updated concerning their events. I would hope they would do the same for us."     Mr. Vyasmaan said there is no doubt that the favor would be returned. Already, he said, Hindus associated with the Web site have written to Congress urging that the two Kahane political parties be removed from the State Department's list of terrorist organizations. It is a cause very dear to Mr. Guzofsky, who said he was recently asked by the authorities to submit fingerprints and handwriting samples for use in their investigationinto his Brooklyn operations.     Mr. Vyasmaan said doubters of the Hindu-Jewish commitment need to look no further than his home in Flushing, where he displays a large picture of Rabbi Kahane.     "He was a great man," Mr. Vyasmaan said. "It almost appeared as if he was speaking for the Hindus."

Bismillah and Salaams,

Thanks for the post AK and Daniel, thanks for your response.

Does anybody remember the new saying to counter the old one that is depicted here "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"?  The new one poignently and succintly says that this is hogwash for decent people because we should not ally ourselves with the devil at any cost.

This is not a surprise, nothing is unexpected in the story.

I wonder, when will the Muslims stop killing the Jews? I, personally am not one-sided, and I have had many Muslim freinds over the years. I do not believe that any one side is completely responsible for anything; the sociopolitical enviroment is too complicated in order to make such a determination.

I have met several Malaysians over the years, and other Mulsims from the Middle East. What is surprising is the fact that many of these individuals have never known any Jews on a personal level or even a superficial one, yet they have these pejorative and grotesque views of the totality of all Jews, conditioned by ideas heard "through the grape vine." It is appaling that many of you, like the aforementioned Jewish exremists, feed off political propoganda, anecdote, and clear discriminatory stances that are established and substantiated by politically motivated individuals.

I personally hope that some objectivity penetrates this blinding veil of hatred and politics that surrounds all of us. I hope that we can trasncend and progress together as equal human beings. It seems, as Bill Clinton said, that "our minor differences are more important than our common humanity," and this is the biggest tragedy of all, something fuels prejudice and terrorism.

Israeli_Avatar wrote: I wonder, when will the Muslims stop killing the Jews?

How many jews have been killed so far can you please tell us. Please also up to date us with this on going killing - killings!!

At various times, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews in Muslim lands were able to live in relative peace and thrive culturally and economically. The position of the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews was never secure, however, and changes in the political or social climate would often lead to persecution, violence and death. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews were generally viewed with contempt by their Muslim neighbors; peaceful coexistence between the two groups involved the subordination and degradation of the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews .

When http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results: On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Granada.html - Granada , Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Fez.html - Fez slaughtered thousands of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews , leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html - Morocco . http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_gen.html#N_6_ - ⁽⁶⁾

Other mass murders of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews in Arab lands occurred in http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html - Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/libyajews.html - Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/algjews.html - Algiers , where http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html - Morocco , where more than 300 hundred http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_gen.html#N_7_ - ⁽⁷⁾

Decrees ordering the destruction of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/shul.html - synagogues were enacted in http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/egjews.html - Egypt and http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/syrianjews.html - Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iraqijews.html - Iraq (854-859, 1344) and http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/yemenjews.html - Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/yemenjews.html - Yemen (1165 and 1678), http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html - Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iraqijews.html - Baghdad (1333 and 1344). http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_gen.html#N_8_ - ⁽⁸⁾

As distinguished Orientalist G.E. von Grunebaum has written:

It would not be difficult to put together the names of a very sizeable number of Jewish subjects or citizens of the Islamic area who have attained to high rank, to power, to great financial influence, to significant and recognized intellectual attainment; and the same could be done for Christians. But it would again not be difficult to compile a lengthy list of persecutions, arbitrary confiscations, attempted forced conversions, or pogroms. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_gen.html#N_9_ - ⁽⁹⁾

The situation of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews in most of North Africa (including http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/algjews.html - Algeria , http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/tunisjews.html - Tunisia , http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/egjews.html - Egypt , http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/libyajews.html - Libya and http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html - Morocco ) were forced to live in ghettos. In http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html - Morocco , which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews , by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews became commonplace in the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Ottoman.html - Ottoman Empire . http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_gen.html#N_10_ - ⁽¹⁰⁾

By the twentieth century, the status of the dhimmi in Muslim lands had not significantly improved. H.E.W. Young, British Vice Consul in Mosul, wrote in 1909:

The attitude of the Muslims toward the Christians and the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews is that of a master towards slaves, whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_gen.html#N_11_ - ⁽¹¹⁾

The danger for http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews became even greater as a showdown approached in the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/untoc.html - UN over http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/parttoc.html - partition in 1947. The Syrian delegate, Faris el-Khouri, warned: "Unless the Palestine problem is settled, we shall have difficulty in protecting and safeguarding the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews in the Arab world." http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_gen.html#N_12_ - ⁽¹²⁾

More than a thousand http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940's in http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iraqijews.html - Iraq , http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/libyajews.html - Libya , http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/egjews.html - Egypt , http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/syrianjews.html - Syria and http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/yemenjews.html - Yemen . http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_gen.html#N_13_ - ⁽¹³⁾ This helped trigger the mass exodus of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews from Arab countries.

Notes

1. Vamberto Morais, A Short History of Anti-Semitism, (NY: W.W Norton and Co., 1976), p. 11; Bernard Lewis, Semites & Anti-Semites, (NY: WW Norton & Co., 1986), p. 81.

2. Bernard Lewis, "The Pro-Islamic http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews ," Judaism, (Fall 1968), p. 401.

3. Bat Ye'or, The Dhimmi, (NJ: Fairleigh Dickinson University Press, 1985), pp. 43-44.

4. Bat Yeor, pp. 30, 56-57; Louis Gardet, La Cite Musulmane: Vie sociale et politique, (Paris: Etudes musulmanes, 1954), p. 348.

5. Bat Yeor, pp. 185-86, 191, 194.

6. Norman Stillman, The http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews of Arab Lands, (PA: The Jewish Publication Society of America, 1979), pp. 59, 284.

7. Maurice Roumani, The Case of the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews from Arab Countries: A Neglected Issue, (Tel Aviv: World Organization of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews from Arab Countries, 1977), pp. 26-27.

8. Bat Ye'or, p. 61

9. G.E. Von Grunebaum, "Eastern Jewry Under Islam," Viator, (1971), p. 369.

10. Bernard Lewis, The http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews of Islam, (NJ: Princeton University Press, 1984) p. 158.

11. Middle Eastern Studies, (1971), p. 232.

12. New York Times, (February 19, 1947).

13. Roumani, pp. 30-31.

Furthermore, before the creation of the State of Israel, Palestinians and various other Arabs murdered Jews by the thousands. The Jews had their territory taken from them, their property, and had their women raped. It got to the point where several Morrocon Jews girls had to marry a single man because of the fear of being raped; "Morrocon Muslim men had respect for marriage," but no respect for the lone Jewish woman.

The richest neighborhood in Egypt was built by the Jews only to be taken away by the Arabs because of jealousy. The only Arabs that seem to admit these facts are the ones that are better educated, and the ones that are rational with their analysis of history.

Israeli_Avatar wrote: On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Granada.html - Granada , Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants.---- Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Fez.html - Fez slaughtered thousands of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews , leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html - Morocco . http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_gen.html#N_6_ - (6) ----- Other mass murders of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews in Arab lands occurred in http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html - Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities;---- http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/libyajews.html - Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/algjews.html - Algiers , where http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html - Morocco , where more than 300 hundred http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/jews.html - Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_gen.html#N_7_ - (7) ----

Etc etc. Amazing how the hatred was kept for many centuries and told generation after generation. It accumulated in addtion in addition of what are available in the OT. No wonder the word peace is so unknown to you.

Imagine if my parent did keep all this kind of stories with them and passed it to me, and I narrated with tears panting breath and grim face to my children, and they will continue it to their children just what the jews did.

There is a question also for you. Will the Palesrinians and whoever are the victims of your murderous rampage up to now have the right to be placed in history? Or is it only for the jews?

You claim that we use anachronisms and dwell on the past, and yet you teach your children of "how we upset and insulted Mohammed." Justifying your hatred of us with propoganda and paranoya, you enunciate things such as "every place of the world will be rid of the Jewish pigs."  Many of you are clearly hypocrites for suggesting that we are over-reacting, or dwelling on the past, because you, like everybody else, do the same things, and yet the rules that you establish do not apply to you, you are exempt. The world of peace is unknown to us? Look at your so-called peaceful countries replete with murder, tyrants, and honor killings. We do not need to pass on these stories, they reasonate in history as the defining factors of what oppression by your people is like. Arabic indifference to history and the tribulation catalyzed by your civilization is a clear sign of your people's lack of education, and is indicative of the philosphical degeneration of your brethren. Your parents indifference to history emanates from your sheltered and myopic reality, where you are shrowded in blindess by the madness and belligerence, which confounds Arabic reality within the Middle East.  

You blame the entire Jewish world for the policies of the state of Israel, and say that we are the murderers of Jesus, and you have the audacity to complain about our pointing out the maliciousness of your civilization in history. It is absurd to condemn "the Jews" for all of your problems, as if we are a single entity with a single mentality, but you continue to perpetuate this fallacy of composition. 

Let's get something clear about the Palestnians, they are a modern day people, in the eyes of history, that do not resemble their ancestors in the sense of the commonplace and contemporary definition. The Palestinians, at one point, were a people that inhabited the land that we call Israel. There were Palestinian Jews, Muslims, and Christians. As a matter of fact, Yasser Arafat's wife is a Palestinian christian. The Palestinians, retrospectively, were a diverse people. Nowadays, when one imagines Palestinians, one envisions a Muslim individual.

I do not blame your civlization for everything, but many of your people love doing that to us. I admit that you are not the only one's at fault, we are also responsible for things that we should not have done. Moreover, we are a nuclear power that have a substantial stock-pile of nuclear weapons, and if any one of you wants to insinuate our destruction, then you have to realize a very powerful fact; that if we go, so do you, if my people are massacred, there won't be enough of your people left to row a refuge row boat accross the Arabian sea. Besides that, if you want to speak of peace, I will love all of you as brothers and sisters, but if you want to be my enemies, then we will not hesitate to fight back to the very end, and take you with us.

It is not for me to allow the Palestinians a place in history, people are their own history-makers. It is up to the modern day Palestinians to make a mark in history, but I hope that this will be a mark of peace and understanding of our common history, and not one of war and destruction, emphasizing our irrelevent differences, as was done many of times by Arabs in history.

Lastly, if you want us to stop "complaining" about us being murdered then why do you complain about yourselves being taken out? If you think that your murder of us was "no big deal" and we have to have to forget about this, then stop talking about the so-called Palestinians, and mind your own  buisness. If you want to acknowldge your mistakes, we will admit ours.

How many Jews do you know personally? I doubt there are many of us in Malaysia, and this is exactly what I am speaking of. You think you know our character because you hear something through the grape vine, or you see something on the internet. There are actually certain Jews that would completely disagree with myself.

It is all a matter of "us" and "they," these are just basic words that every body uses, even you. They are general terms, and your blanket judgement of Jews are no more justified, and no less blatant.

I do not know about God, I believe in God, but God is beyond me. I am a member of the Jewish civilization so when I speak of this aggregation, I make it clear that I am part of it with words like "us." Does that mean that I am better or different than you? No, these are mechanisms of communication, and you are hyperbollically attacking the semantics because you cannot respond rationally to what I have already stated.

I do not see you as any different, as far as your humanity is concerned. But if we or the Jews grant the same rights to you or they, the Muslims, in the State of Israel, then we or the Jews would cease to exist, and we cannot allow that because we are also human beings that firstly have the right to survive and thrive and for our children to be safe. Humans always think of their tribes and families first, that is a fact! Just because your people have antithetical perspectives and want for us to treat you all the same, while many of you are belligrent, doesn't mean that your people will recieve or deserve such treatment. If you want to come to my home and sit with my children, then show me that you want to be my freind because I would love that, and actions speak louder than words.

We can be we if only we respect each others boundries and humanity, I wish that the Muslim civilization would grant us that respect. I use to be an exteremist, but now I am more moderate, I will say that if you end the hypocrisy and expunge all of the preconcieved notions from your minds about us, then we would never have a problem with you. I would love for us to be freinds. I myself am not religious or anything like that, but I care for the safety of my family.

Assalamu Alaikum,

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15. We will not tolerate personal attacks on participants from ANY Community (personal attacks are defined as comments that reflect upon the person instead of their opinion). Furthermore, any insults intended to ANY religion, ANY prophet of God, or ANY holy scripture shall be removed.

16. Slanderous, defamatory, obscene, indecent, lewd, pornographic, violent, abusive, insulting, threatening, or harassing comments are not tolerated. ALL comments by the person who adopts such a manner may be removed and the person will lose the privilege of participating in the forums in future. We will try to block attempts from the same person to sign up with a different User name as well.

Peace