seeking advice on bringing up kids
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Topic: seeking advice on bringing up kids
Posted By: umss
Subject: seeking advice on bringing up kids
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 4:16am
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Bismallah Asalaam Alaikum, I am a mum of two daughters (6 and 2 years old) living in london. I am sincerely seeking advice from sisters here on methods of bringing up kids in islamic way. I have got a lot of questions on this issue, which puzzled and even upset me everyday now. Sisters, please give me some tips and hints on how to do if your kids :
Asalaam Alaikum um ss |
Replies:
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 9:57am
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Welcome to the Forum. I hope you will enjoy things here. well.. there are different methodolgies to ge to the same point. One is knowing your children's personalities. I am a teacher and some kids are just SLOW in getting those shoes on. TV: well befirm on deadlines, or time, like you get half an hour and then it is off. Be firm with this. Kids can always sense if one is a pushover. Make sure you have defined consequences.. like.. no dessert, or no TV the next day. Or take away a something they really like..like TV. Bed: they just need to go to their room, if nothing else, even if they don't want to. They may not fall asleep right away. But they need to be there with lights out. There is a clear difference between slow and outright disobedience. Some people are just slow, but they are moving. Praise them when they do it well and quickly. If they are disobedient then there MUST be a consequence or they will continue to do it. Concentration: are ther distractions around? If you are talking to the six year old you may need to do it with them to have them learn the habit. Try to have a set schedule, like after scack when they get home, or after dinner. Make it that no TV or dessert without homework done. Things you dislike: well that is a tricky thing..Is it based on personality or sonething that you think is unhealthy for them. Please give an example. Motivation to try new things: depends on what it is. First some kids are quite passive. Which is fine but can be harmful if not in balance with being open and willing to try new things. As far as dentist. I would not want to go either! Not much you can do about that. You don't want to use this all the time, but have a "reward" for those very difficult things.. like the dentist and surgery. Like you'll go to a favorite restaurant, movie or ice cream, or another special type of place. For other things that are less daunting then the dentist you may need to give it time. Find an activity that helps promote internal strength. I teach karate and self-defense. And we have some very shy kids. They really can leanr to balance out their natural reserve so they can then have choice. We do a lot of role playing in this regard. Most karate schools do not. Public Schools in UK: no idea. ------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |
Posted By: Muslimah07
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 3:34pm
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Salaam, I sent a long message advising to spank the children, but I am editing this since it was misunderstood. Salaams ------------- Peace |
Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 9:22pm
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Assalaamualaikum Prophet sallahu alayhi wasallam allowed spanking only if the child is not praying. And beating HARD is not allowed. Abu Mas'ud al-Badri reported: I was beating my slave with a whip when I heard a voice behind me: Understand, Abu Masud; but I did not recognise the voice due to intense anger. He (Abu Mas'ud) reported: As he came near me (I found) that he was the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he was saying: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; bear in mind. Abu Mas'ud. He (Aba Maslad) said: threw the whip from my hand. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; verily Allah has more dominance upon you than you have upon your slave. I (then) said: I would never beat my servant in future. (Book http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=015&translator=2&start=0&number=4086 - #015 , Hadith http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=015&translator=2&start=0&number=4086#4086 - #4086 ) Mind you, this was a slave. We are talking about little children here. We cannot force children to respect and obey us. Rearing children is not easy. Yes, spanking once in a while when its really necessary is one thing, but beating them all the time makes them more rebellious and disobedient. What works best is love. How you treat them, they will behave exactly the same way with you. We cannot expect the same reaction from every child, one may rebel, another may give in. But definitely we are crushing the self confidence of ALL of them if we do not treat them with love and respect and beat them all the time. I received a mail regarding this, see my next post.... May Allah guide us and our children and make them the light of our eyes. Wassalaam.
------------- Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper). (Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45) |
Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 29 November 2006 at 9:28pm
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Dr. Arun Gandhi, grandson of Mahatma Gandhi and founder of the M.K.Gandhi Institute for Non-violence( http://www.gandhiinstitute.org/ - http://www.gandhiinstitute.org ), in his June 9 lecture at the University of Puerto Rico, shared the following story as an example of "non-violence in parenting": "I was 16 years old and living with my parents at the institute my grandfather had founded 18 miles outside of Durban, South Africa, in the middle of the sugar plantations. We were deep in the country and had no neighbors, so my two sisters and I would always look forward to going to town to visit friends or go to the movies. One day, my father asked me to drive him to town for an all-day conference, and I jumped at the chance. Since I was going to town, my mother gave me a list of groceries she needed and, since I had all day in town, my father ask me to take care of several pending chores, such as getting the car serviced. When I dropped my father off that morning, he said, 'I will meet you here at 5:00 p.m., and we will go home together.' After hurriedly completing my chores, I went straight to the nearest movie theatre. I got so engrossed in a John Wayne double-feature that I forgot the time. It was 5:30 before I remembered. By the time I ran to the garage and got the car and hurried to where my father was waiting for me, it was almost 6:00. He anxiously asked me, 'Why were you late?' I was so ashamed of telling him I was watching a John Wayne western movie that I said, 'The car wasn't ready, so I had to wait,' not realizing that he had already called the garage. When he caught me in the lie, he said: 'There's something wrong in the way I brought you up that didn't give you the confidence to tell me the truth. In order to figure out where I went wrong with you, I'm going to walk home 18 miles and think about it.' So, dressed in his suit and dress shoes, he began to walk home in the dark on mostly unpaved, unlit roads. I couldn't leave him, so for five-and-a-half hours I drove behind him, watching my father go through this agony for a st**id lie that I uttered. I decided then and there that I was never going to lie again. I often think about that episode and wonder, if he had punished me the way we punish our children, whether I would have learned a lesson at all. I don't think so. I would have suffered the punishment and gone on doing the same thing. But this single non-violent action was so powerful that it is still as if it happened yesterday. That is the power of non-violence." ------------- Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper). (Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45) |
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 November 2006 at 4:15am
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lack of concentration....I agree with hafya on this, also kids have shorter attention spans than adults, perhaps do activities at a lesser time frame. (Even with adults or older kids studying, it is noted that around 20min-30min on something is enough before you need to stop and take a break and later go back to it). umss, your kids are no different to other kids, even well mannered/rounded kids. -------------  ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 November 2006 at 5:15am
Well, that shocked me I've seen this done to other kids and it did nothing but put their morale down, not to mention their spirit. And this thread here WE are talking about 6 and 2 years olds! young kids! Do what you advocate, I believe strongly you end up losing their innocence. Yes have discipline and not tolerate misrespect but beat them with a belt and threaten them with, teaches them disrespect and to be afraid moreso than anything. These are YOUNG children and until you understand them I suggest you stay away from this. They are not going to get it or understand when you beat them. To tell them "do you want more" just so they shut up and be quiet after being sent to their room IS NOT going to teach them properly about manners and respect. You got taught by threats but is this right?? but you cannot answer because that is what you know and you think it is alright. Here's a scenerio to think about, you have siblings who fight and hit each other (as many do Is it alright going around every time they do something wrong or have misrespected you or someone else or don't listen and beat them and send them to their rooms and threaten them with more beatings/hit them hard?? I don't care if you turned out ok IT IS not alright to do what you advocate. I left the middle paragraph out about taking away something the kids love or not allow them to go on a trip (or the shopping centre if they are older) or do clean up or not get pocket money, as a discipline tool, as I believe & think there is no harm to the kids, you are not beating them up or threatening to beat them up. Send them to their room for time out and to think about what they did, by all means and also talk to them why such and such is wrong - at their level of understanding NOT yours! ------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Muslimah07 wrote:
) but you as a parent come in to stop them fighting because it is not right and could hurt each other but to teach them you go and beat them - how is that teaching them not to fight/hit each other when you as a parent just did the same thing to them ??Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 30 November 2006 at 8:02am
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As salamu alaikum. Sis. Umms tarbiya is one of the greatest obligations of a muslim woman. Allah will bless you for your sincerity in seeking knowledge to better your children's upbringing. In sha allah I'll try to answer what I can.
Behavior is many cases is a learned phenomenon that is influenced by the environment. If a child misbehaves and the behavior is not punished consistently, the behavior will most likely be reinforced. Punishment doesn't have to be hitting. It's anything that will cause a decrease in the bahavior. The next time you tell your child to turn off the TV and he/she doesn't, you turn it off. Then you take the television for a specific amount of time. This punishment has to be immediately after the behavior (don't wait until your husband gets home, the kid has forgotten everything by then). If the child cries, screams, begs, bargains, etc. when you remove the TV, don't give in to it. If you set a punishment and then let the child off the hook, you will not only reinforce the unwanted behavior, but you'll make it occur more frequently. If your child has a serious problem with obedience, it's important to first teach him/her how to be obedient, then reward him/her for obedience. How do you teach obedience??? a) First you sit down with your child and explain the specific behaviour that you desire from him/her (i.e "Ahmed, when mommy says turn off the TV I want you to say "yes mommy" and then turn it off quickly"). Don't use general terms like "i want you to behave yourself." It's confusing for children. Try telling your husband to "behave", it's enough to confuse a grown man even b) Once you've exaplained the desired behavior, practice it. ("ok Ahmed we're going to practice. Are you ready? Ahmed turn off the TV"). Do it a couple of times. If you have a camcorder, record him "obeying you" and let him watch. c) Then you should explain the reward system you'll use with him. (ok Ahmed, everytime I ask you to turn off the TV and you do like we've practiced you'll get a sticker on this chart. 10 stickers= one dollar. At the end of the week you can cash in your stickers for money). d) Explain the punishment ("Ahmed, if you don't do like we've practiced you won't get the sticker and you'll have to sit on time out for x amount of minutes"). Just remember, a reward is not a reward if it's given freely. If for example you make money the reward. Then you should only give him/her money for the stickers they've earned. Make sure your husband backs you up on this. lack of consentration on study? What exactly do you mean by this? Is the child having a hard time paying attention? This could be due to excessive sugar intake. Try not to give your children lots of candy, sugary drinks, etc. In fact, if you limit their sugar intake to the weekend that's best. Not just for concentration but for their health. The statistics on diabetes amongst chilren in the U.S is scary. When your child is doing homework, make sure there are no distractions where he's studying (no TV or radio playing, no people talking, etc.). Make yourself available just incase he's having a hard time with his homework. Some children need more academic coaching than others.
Sis, I really need an example for this one. Just, try not to be a skin flint attending the public school in the UK? I would honestly suggest home school or Islamic school. In the US there are plenty of charter schools that provide parents with everything required to successfully homeschool. At the end, the child earns an accredited high school diploma. I'm not sure about the UK. Check with the school board in your area. Islamic schools in the West are not perfect, but they're certainly safer for muslim children. Salaam |
.Posted By: umss
Date Posted: 30 November 2006 at 4:51pm
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Bismillah Assalam Aleikoum Sisters, First of all, I have to thank you all of you who stopped in this room and joined the discussion. I appreciate everyone's reply. I believe this is a issue that are most of married muslim mums facing nowdays, especially those who are at same stage as me with young kids to bring up. So please do drop a line after reading, let's help each other to find the best way to bring up our childern islamiclly, as this is our responsibility and duty that Allah gives. May Allah, the Almighty, helps us, Ameen! I have read through all of sisters' reply with full of thoughs carefully. There are so many good points that are exactly what I need, while some suggestions I have to respond with an opposite opinion. Below is my response to each of the above reply: To Sis HayFa: I am really glad to meet a really childern issue expertie like you here. I admire that you can stand in the childern's boots to defend them. I wish you were the teacher of my daughter in school, in that case, I will feel more relieved. I believe you have lots of experience with educating children in school environment. Your comments reminded me to keep low down my role as a adult, guardian, and mum to be my kids, think what they may think. I do agree your most of points, they are really useful, thanks. As for something I dislike, I am giving an example. Last year, I bought her a jean, she likes it very much. Now it is old and small, she still trys to wear it almost every day. I feel it is a bit tight for her now (it might not be really that bad for others, but I just don't like see her wearing it out) so tell her not to wear it anymore, but she won't listen, everyday beg me to wear it, I tried to hide it somewhere, then she will find it out and put on while I was not with her. This is just a small exmaple for many similar cases. Because I am afraid she will imitate other girls who are non-muslim and do something haram in future. This is just my little worries, of course I won't let it happen on my daughter, but still I need some hints to get my duty done effectively. As for trying new things, she is ok by doing any activities, actually she is very active girl sometimes. However, she doesn't like give it go for instance, a new pair of shoes because the new one is less comfortable at beginning; new type of foods. I got really very crohss on these it happened. Also she is too determined, she has her own opinion on everything, and sometimes, without force, she won't happily do the alternative. Telling you a story about a tiny piece of tablet. You can't imagine my husband and me spend 3 hours with her to let her take it. She complained her throat is too small to swallow it, it would stuck her, she is scared about it .... whatever we said, she won't give it try, at the end both my husband and I are explored, I screamed, and my husband beat her, it ended with a almost violence which I hated to happen. I was feeling extremely sad and powerfulless afterwards though she took it after all. I could hear my heart was shaking and blood running faster in my body that moment. I understand this is not the islamic way to get on with our beloved kids, they are our lives' angels, who bring the happiness and enjoyment to us, and one day, we treat them like an animial or even worse! To Muslimah07 I am regret to say I totally disgree your opinion. I can see what you stand, maybe yourself is the seldom one who is successfully come out of the ways your parents' education. I don't know if you have your own childern or not, may I ask you, if you can treat them as what you said?? To be honest, I was a bit shocked when I read your message. Apart from this, I can give a failure story about the home violence on children. A very intellegent girl had been beatean and smacked frequently by her dad becasue of her young ignorence and youth misbehaver, at her 17 years old, she was dignosed psychotic. Now she is in her 38, nearly twenty years past, she is living in a totally unconscious situation. All of the family are seeking an exorcist to cure her in every degree. May Allah cure her and departure the Jinn who possessed her soonest, Anmeen! (by the way, if any sisters can help with this, do let me, Inshallah!) I personally strongly am against this, though it happened to my kids due to we didn't have enough patience. I can tell by my own experience it didn't work for my girl. They are so innocent in this case, and this is the worst method I could think about at the moment of anger. I know it is Satan (the cursed) stirring, may Allah the Almithgy guide us as parent the right way and path in front of our kids, Ameen! To Sister Amah Thank you very much for contributing the beatiful hadith and the story! I agree the best way to bring up kids in islamic way is showing them our love. The father in the story is super wise, and I believe not everyone can make it in that situation. We should all learn from him, excllent example to follow. My concern is how could we ensure we can do the right thing at the right time? And show our right love not spoiling one to our kids in the right way? We may still have to give it a deep thinking. I need more answers to these. To angel I got your point on the discipline tool, it seems like my tools in my hands are too small and need to be updated on time. This is why I open the topic here, which I never did anywhere before. I am hoping I can get the useful advice afterwards and would like to discuss with you in further. To Abeer23 I found your suggestion very practical. It sounds like the idea of only a super nanny could ever though of nowdays. I will apply them to my daily action, Inshaallah! The sugar issue is very good point. My daughter has exactly the problem. That is why I mentioned in the post about the dentist surgery. She have more decays than the average same age kids have. I guss this is inherated from my husband family side. I was told by the dentist that she has to romve least 4 baby teeth now, and wait for a few years to get the adults teeth appear becuase the decay was so so soooooooooo bad! I cried on hearing this at the clinic. You may heard the dental treatment system in the Uk is chaos. To get her teeth seen by the doctor, it needs least 5 months. It is real nightmare, I can't imagine, how big bad whole will my daughter have in her mouth at that time. And this outcome caused mainly by her non cooperation with the doctor that day. She may doesn't understand what it would mean to refuse open her mouth that day though I explained to her many times. She can't be blamed, I know, but how about her teeth? I am stuck here full of anxious. Allah huliallah, we are practicing muslims. Our childern observe our performing our deens everyday, and we do teach them a lot about islam. However, I just have a feeling, all the oral education may not make sense in the young kid's mind sometimes. And I also feel I have to balance between the positive and negative (e.g. the punishment on the judgment day) in our talks when we are facing the youth. Islamic school in the area where i am living is extremely expensive, that we may not offord. Even though, I am thinking about it. Thanks for this. Assalam Aleikoum umss |
Posted By: Muslimah07
Date Posted: 30 November 2006 at 4:57pm
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I am the Sister who recommended the Mother to beat her children. Obviously this upset some people. I did Not mean that a Mother should spank her child 24 hours-a-day, 7 days-a-week. Nor did I mean that beatings whould be used for each and every thing a child does wrong: Of Course Not! However the Sister said her kids:
(and this advise is more to the 6 year old--not the 2 year old). These are Serious Problems. No 6 year old child should think they have the right to IGNORE their Mother REPEATEDLY. Obviously the Mother is in distress since she is asking all of us to help her..It sounds as if her 6 year old has failed to realize who is the parent and who is the child. Ignoring your Mom is blatant disrespect. If any child REPEATEDLY does not do even the smallest things, even after the Mother has asked her OVER and OVER agian--then there is nothing wrong with spanking that child (as one sister agreed with). Spanking is a controversial subject. On the extreme end, some people believe it is "violence". On the other extreme end, some people believe in beating their children constantly-- without showing any love or guidance first. And I agree that beating a child--without showing any love--does indeed hurt the self esteem. The Bible (even though we believe it was tampered with) said "Spare the rod, spoil the child"...Yes, we must love our chilrden, guide them, explain to them what we expect, give "time-outs" and take away material things as punishments..However, I'm a Teacher who works with children every day--there are some children who continue to misbehave, defy authority, act defiant, and "talk back" even after parents have done all of the previously mentioned punsihments..WHEN THAT HAPPENS--that child needs to be spanked--before he or she gets too old and too big for any discpiline to work, and then its too late...(I've personally seen people in my family who werent spanked as comapred to those of us who were spanked. The ones who were not spanked grew up to be rude to their Mothers and became rebellious. The ones who were spanked went to college and took care of their Mothers financially.) Sister, I'm a Teacher--and you need to really start to make sure that your 6 year old child is getting Motivated with her schoolwork. I've seen kids get "left back" and put into Special Education when they wont do their work over a long period of time..Give her time to play, but make it clear that she must Do Her Work. She would have NO toys, games, or trips if she is not doing her schoolwork. Let her know she is will only get those things IF she gets A's and B's. I do not agree with giving rewards to children for doing things they are SOPOSSED to do! Schools today now constantly give students rewards like candy, stickers, and toys just for doing what is expected. We are creating a generation of kids who think they should get a reward even when they brush their teeth. Yes, we can give rewards from time to-time; but not for each and every single thing they do that they are Sopposed to Do Anyway... But, giving Positive Praise is a good thing. Whenever they do something right--kids get really motivated when you say "Good!", "you did it!", "very good!", "wow! look at that!", etc. Children will DO what you Praise them for--that is true. (I dont mean Praise like we Praise Allah, but postive talking) Well, Sisters you can be uspet with me, fine--I bet those kids would turn off the TV if they were at MY HOUSE. And I bet there wouldnt be any "Lack of Motivation" when doing school-work either...Any Sister having problems with their kids--send them to my house for weekend. (As for the Hadith about the Prophet only telling people to beat a child who is not praying--that Hadith does not make sense and goes agianst the Koran. Allah says there is "No compulsion in Islam".) I think the Ghandi situation was wonderful--and we can create change my making kids think--and its easier with a 16 year old, not a 6 year old. ----- PS--Sister Umm I just read your last letter to us, and I see that you disagree. I am a Teacher and I love my students dearly, but I do not spank them.. I do not have children, but I base my opinion on how I was raised, and also seeing my other family members..Your daughter doesnt seem like she is bad to me. Maybe you should have crushed the pill with a spoon. And, tell her if she is good girl, you will buy her a pair of new jeans. ------------- Peace |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 30 November 2006 at 5:13pm
------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 November 2006 at 8:21pm
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I got your point on the discipline tool, it seems like my tools in my hands are too small and need to be updated on time. This is why I open the topic here, which I never did anywhere before. I am hoping I can get the useful advice afterwards and would like to discuss with you in further. Sure, you are welcome to, I am non muslim, but I can help where ever I can, it may not be so much islamic but I do think some things transends islam & is just plain.....well universal
Does your daughter seem uncomfortable when she wears the jeans, if not maybe there is still some more wear out of them. Other than that perhaps you can make a cushion out of it, stuff it with some stuffing and either sew the ends/cuffs or put extra material to cover the cuffs and waist, sew to the edging, that way your daughter will still have her favourite jeans but as a cushion. Alot of kids have certain things that are their favourites and it can be a hard time trying to pry it away from them
new foods, have you gone to the bookshop or the library and find recipes/eating for kids? Some kids don't accure new taste for things all at once, I never liked peas but that was no problem because i ate my salads This is one thing I wouldn't force kids, if they are eating fine and healthy then it is not a big deal if kids don't eat certain things or try them out for the first time. There is plenty of time. I know it would be nice if kids try new food all the time, but it won't happen Sometimes if you get creative and make faces or things on the plate she may give it go, also your older daughter (or even your youngest, join them in) and get her to help with a few little things, sometimes whent hey get involved, help you they may be more inclined to try out. Like salad stuff, you cut up the vegies, and get your daughter to help and put them on the plate, making it so that it is an exciting/fun activity but don't make a big deal out of it she may lose interest. Also if kids see you try out new things they will also be inclined to try also. I don't know what your child is like but my cousin who is 8 and half just wants to help always she's been like that forever even in things she cannot do. In things she cannot do, find something that she can, perhaps dry the odd plastic plate/bowl/cup after you wash
Kids can be like this, and yes in some times you need to stand your ground, you are the parent and you know what is best. I do believe that if you let her have her way all the time she will walk over you and not listen or take you seriously. it is also a matter, that she matters and so is her opinion but there are times when you can't let her.
Some kids have trouble swallowing tablets/pills, I as a kid couldn't swollaw but somehow I found to but that was only around 6/7 years ago and i'm in my early 30's. Perhaps crushes the tablet would be best. Medicine can be a problem, as it taste yukky, no one really likes them My Godmother deals with medicine all the time she has 3 boys, the thing she does it have a glass of milk or biscuit or just a little ice, straight after taking, so the yukky taste does not stay in the month for long. It works. Perhaps you can give this a try. Oh I remember once, when i was a kid probably not that much differences in age with your daughter, I was at my grandmothers and i had to take this medication, can't remember what for now, but i was so admenant that i wasn't going to take, think i had 3 adults to try and give it to me ------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Perhaps frame them and put it up on the wall so she can see them. Don't know if you have a big enough teddy bear or doll, perhaps the jeans can go to them 
but there is nothing wrong in do these little things, at the same time she is help with chores 
) and she might just help. I wouldn't force her she is 6 afterall it is just ideas and seeing other little kids wanting to her these are the activities that can be joined in with adults. Posted By: sakeena
Date Posted: 01 December 2006 at 3:22pm
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I am not an expert on this, since I have no kids. I think Hayfa has given the best advice. But I will add my 2 cents, partially in defense of Muslimah07, but mostly about what I've witnessed/experienced. Where I live and basically everywhere I go, people beat their kids. By this I mean they literally BEAT their kids. For things I find completely harmless. One day when I was at work, I was playing with a little boy who seemed to be very hyper, continuosly running around the store. He wasn't messing up anything or nothing like that. Everytime he stopped, he'd give me something, like his hat, then run around and take it back etc... so when the people he was with tried to make him come to them, he would hide behind me to get away from them. At first I thought it was very odd. But then when his father caught him, he hit him very VERY hard On the other hand, there was a girl that used to live in my nieghborhood, and her parents had never spanked her all her life. She was rude to them, rude to others, and physically abusive to her parents. She was like...12 years old. Another account is that there was a little boy I used to see at the masjid. His parents never spanked him, and he was physically abusive to his mother, and would beat up other kids. He was 4. This may be because of the father but, that's another subject. I was spanked as a child, and I didn't like it. There were a few times I was spanked and didn't think it was fair and it still bothers me to this day. But I forgive my mother because she was raised in a foster home with a very abusive lady. She was even beaten with fan belts off cars. But she was never abusive to me or my siblings. The mentality of physical punishment is just something she was raised with. However, her, (and my dad's) method was to talk to us and tell us what we did wrong, and then give us the punishment. Then sometimes it was just, "Ok, do you want a spanking, or do you want to talk about it?" Talking about would seem like the best choice, but "talking about it" meant listening for HOURS!!!!!!!!! I will say that Muslimah07 is NOT "advocating" "violence" against children. I think physical punishment/discepline is ok to a certain degree. I do plan to physically discepline my kids when I do have some, but definately in a manner that will not physically or mentally scar them for life. Hand spankings are as far as I'm willing to go! And talking is always the best way to get a child to understand things. I mean CONVERSATION. "Talks" meant dinner was gonna be late, we were gonna miss Tom and Jerry, and butt cramps. Seriously talk with your children. They are "only" kids, but they understand way more than we think. As for "spare the rod; spoil the child," coincedently, a lady was talking to me about that today. She told me that "beat your child," or something like that, is in the Bible. I was shocked at first, but then thought about how shocked people are when they find out "beat them lightly" (in reference to wives) is in the Qur'an. Salaam |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 01 December 2006 at 4:17pm
Salaams, That's for wives who have stolen their husband's property repeatedly or cheated on him!!! And that is the most severe interpretation of that. And remember that prophet Muhammad said to his servant that he would hit him with his miswak, small, thin, short piece of wood for cleaning teeth, IF he weren't afraid of punishment on judgment day. People hitting on their kids all the time, slapping their hands and faces, need to think about that. There are so many examples of the kindness and love that our Prophet Muhammad exhibited towards children. I think it would be best if we emulated his example as best as we can. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 01 December 2006 at 4:25pm
As salamu alaikum sis. By all means balance is crucial to all aspects of religion. The hereafter doesn't consist of Allah's punishment alone, there is also His reward, mercy, etc. Don't worry about your daughters not understanding. They understand a lot more than we give them credit for believe me (especially the six-year-old). Children like story telling and drama, these are excellent tools for Islamic education. By the age of six I understood the concept of the hereafter and all that related to it (torture/peace in the grave, questioning in the grave, book of deeds, heaven, hell etc.). You can find lots of ahadith on these and other topics. In stead of reading the ahadith (or stories from Quran) to your daughters, narrate them in story form using as much animation as you can. I find this helps the children retain the information; plus they enjoy it. They'll be beggin' you for more |
.Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 01 December 2006 at 6:33pm
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If you live in the west, DO NOT BEAT YOUR KIDS OR LISTEN TO THIS KIND OF ADVICE!!! This is a very uneducated way of looking at a problem and could get your kids taken from you and put into foster care. As for people in other countries where it is allowed, well alot of people may beat thier kids, wives, dogs or whoever theywant to but it is still wrong! UMSS let me tell you, if you want to have goods you have to INSPIRE them to be good. You can't force any person to be respectful, or be faithful. And frankly when children grow up and leave home, THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT!!! The best thing you can do is love them dearly, be firm with discipline, take away favorite toys or priveledges when they are talk badly to you or don't listen. Or send them to thier rooms. Inspire them in faith by telling them how Much ALLAH Pak loves them and wants them to be good. You don't need to scare young children with the hellfire. Show them good deeds they can do like donating old clothes to a shelter, make cards or pictures for older friends and family, help with housework ect. Talk to them about helping people and how Allah Pak loves us to help and be kind to others. When our children talk in a rude way to us, we tell them we mommy and daddy never talk to our parents, your grandparents that way do we? And the kids realize we don't. So we tell them you can't talk badly to your parents either. IF all else fails an occasional mouthful of a little black pepper for really bad behaviour sets them straight and it is not harmful. Lastly again, Inspire your kids with good examples all around them. Have them play more with well behaved kids and less with badly behaved kids. We have given up dear friends because thier children were so terrible behaved and they never controlled them at all. But our childrens future is more important than offending some friends. I really believe if your children TRUST,RESPECT,LOVE and NEED you they will want to do generally the best they can in life BECAUSE THEY WON'T WANT YOU to be upset with them! ------------- You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly. |
Posted By: sakeena
Date Posted: 02 December 2006 at 6:06am
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Yes you are correct. But that is not what the extent of my post was about I read a hadith that stated that Phophet Muhammad (pbuh) said it was wrong for anyone to strike any creature in the face. So if anyone dare raises a hand to slap a child, Allah have mercy on them! I also would like to add some important advice for sister Umss: TEACH YOUR CHILDREN HOW TO PRAY! By the time I was 4, I knew the Al Fatiha and knew how to make salat. My parents never forced me to do this, but they were very active in teaching me and my siblings. They talked to us about Islam all the time and always prayed with us. This will help if you fear your daughter doing something haraam later in life! Salaam |
It made me very angry because the boy was so sweet and wasn't doing anything wrong. YES, he was running around the store, which his father didn't like. But it wasn't wrong of him to run around. I don't know what the guy thought the kid was doing but... that is just one example of what I see everyday
Posted By: Muslimah07
Date Posted: 03 December 2006 at 7:32am
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(Jenni Wrote). If you live in the west, DO NOT BEAT YOUR KIDS OR LISTEN TO THIS KIND OF ADVICE!!! This is a very uneducated way of looking at a problem and could get your kids taken from you and put into foster care. As for people in other countries where it is allowed, well alot of people may beat thier kids, wives, dogs or whoever theywant to but it is still wrong! From Muslimah07: Jenni, I'll have you know that I hold a Bachelor's Degree from a very prestigious university in the U.S., I was born & raised in the United States and still live in America--as was my whole family dating back 400 years. It is not necessary for you to attempt to insult people's education, culture, or background in order to get your point across...Let me educate you on something: It is common knowledge among psychologists that the issue of spankings is largely a cultural issue. Most people of African/African-American/Latino descent (and other people of color) believe in spankings--while it is more common for people who are Caucasion (and of very high income) to not believe in spankings. Sucessful people who were spanked as children include: Oprah Winfrey and Bill Cosby. I am a Teacher in the United States Public School System, and I am very familiar with the process of the Division of Youth and Family Services who remove children from the home because of abuse. I myself have reported child abuse cases to them. You have given false information about children being removed from the home for spankings and placed in "foster care". Case Workers at Family Services and almost all teachers understand that mild, occasional spanking is not a form of abuse--and although they will investigate every reported case, they will not immediatley remove a child from a good home who has simply been "spanked". I've said before in other Posts that we must love, train, teach, and educate our children. Spanking should be used when a child has a repeated pattern of disobediance after Several attempts to use other methods. Jenni, Are You Muslim? I ask because I thought I read in another Post that you said you Are Not Muslim--is that correct? Please let us know your status, as you seem to give alot of "advise" to Muslimahs here regarding marriage, family life, etc,. Correct and forgive me if I am wrong--but I think people should know your religious status. Peace ------------- Peace |
Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 03 December 2006 at 12:20pm
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Muslimaho7, are you smoking something? I never never said I wasn't Muslim. Because I have differing opinions does not mean I'm not Muslim, and I challenge you to read any post I wrote that said I am not a Muslim. I may not be or think like you, but I believe in the holy QURAN and all of ALLAHS prophets! And You said, BEAT THOSE KIDS!!! BEATING IS NOT SPANKING!!!! Smacking the face is not like swatting the bottom!! ANd beating with a belt could get one thrown in jail. So I will say again people do not listen to this advice, and by the way MUSLIMAH 07 do you even have kids? And when you have a son that is going to be 6'5" possibly by the time he is 16 do you think spanking will really work. I don't care what your profession is your view is quite narrow. ------------- You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly. |
Posted By: Muslimah07
Date Posted: 03 December 2006 at 1:17pm
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Muslimaho7, are you smoking something? I never never said I wasn't Muslim. Because I have differing opinions does not mean I'm not Muslim, and I challenge you to read any post I wrote that said I am not a Muslim. I may not be or think like you, but I believe in the holy QURAN and all of ALLAHS prophets! Salaam Jenni, Here you go with another Personal Attack. Wow, I dont know what type of environment you participate in that would make even think such a thing. (My Mom did tell me that Muslims do all types of things). I will not tolerate Verbal Abuse from a man, woman, child, and certainly not a fellow Muslim. I simply asked if you were Muslim (because I thought I had read that you were) and I said "forgive me if I am wrong". You say you are indeed a Muslim, But you admited today that you Celebrate Christmas in my 'Christmas question', and that you even buy and decorate a Christmas Tree. At any rate, with your way of speakings, I am afraid to see how your sons will turn out when get 6'5"... My sons, inshallah, won't speak with such a foul mouth, and I'll remember to keep them away from your son's--since there is no telling what will come out of your mouth--and I don't want you giving Christmas presents to my kids. Salaams ------------- Peace |
Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 03 December 2006 at 4:05pm
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It is you bothering me, I was responding to the sister, not you. And I did not say I celebrate Christmas, I said I buy a tree and put the presents from my Christian relatives under it, thats it. My kids no there is no SAnta, they don't get gifts from us. And I make thanksgiving dinner on thanksgiving as well, big deal! I am honest and lots of other Muslims do the same celebrating some holidays a little and lots I know do halloween but would never admit it for fear of ridicule from people like you. By the way are you smoking is a sarcastic term meaning are you delusional, which has nothing to do with really smoking. I assumed you living in the U.S. would be able to understand this point but I assumed too much. This is a commen phrase and has nothing to do with actually smoking anything, I guess it went over your head. Obviously you are not the kind of person I would associate with outside of the Masjid or any other situation, so I wish you the best but hope no-one got out the belt becuase of you. And by the way, my kids are A students and loved by thier teachers and friends. ------------- You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly. |
Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 04 December 2006 at 3:46am
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i have a problem when it comes to discipline, especially for my eldest whose 9. i sometimes want to scold her or spank her if shes done wrong but she looks into my eyes n i burst out laughing. i cant help myself. shes got the cutest smile n i cant bring myself to spank her. if im really pissed i report her to my mom, who will spank her. i hope this doesnt make me a bad mom, but i dont know y i am this way. i wish thier dad was around. maybe he would be the disciplinarian. ive tried bit i always end up laughing. but my kids know when i mean business. they respect me n never talk back to me. if i tell them something, even if they dont like it, they will do it cos mom said so. its just the spanking or serious scolding that i cant maintain. they listen when i give them instructions. sometimes i may have to scream a little louder to get results, but i get results in the end, with no spanking.
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Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 04 December 2006 at 10:31am
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My mother ruled things.. and could control us with just the "look." Anyone else's mom like that? I think things like spanking backfire when it is the main way to teach discipline. Teaching children to listen, be respectful and have self-control takes many avenues. What they do need to have is to see their parents have these traits. It is often this that they follow in the long-term. When a parent consistently screams or hits then these are the actions that they will inherit. If you cannot control one's anger how do we expect them to? Sometimes the parents need a time out.. it is not always best to deal with things if you are very angry or irate. Plus if you are not always agry when you ARE angry they know you mean business. Of course working with kids requires patience. We won't have it every day, all the time. But the better we know ourselves, the better we can be as parents and the main guide to raising the children.
------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |
Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 04 December 2006 at 10:55am
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Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 04 December 2006 at 6:22pm
The best thing is just walk away with a straight face (as hard as it is I've been in occasions where kids have done wrong and it can be funny, I tend to turn around so they don't see my face and/or walk away. ------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Posted By: UmmAminata
Date Posted: 05 December 2006 at 8:45am
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Salaam O Alaikum Sister I'm pressed for time so I'll be brief and offer you my amazonbook reading wish list. I do want to say that it appears that you may be suffering from a little bit of depression. I hope that you can chose to be responsible and consult your OB/GYN about being screened for depression. I also want you to look into mothers groups, play groups, and women support groups so that you can have some adult emotional support. It's not good to remain isolated. Don't forget to take care of yourself, and if you don't have time, than you need to make time, and hold your family accountable and require that they respect your limits. Remeber that you are human, and I want to hear you making room for laughter in life. Happiness or contentment is a choice sister. Don't be so serious, kick back and relax! Ask hubby to give you a massage! As for education, I'm a Pro-Home schooler but realize it's not for every child or family. If you would like to discuss that perhaps you can start a home schooling thread and fish for resources and feed back. I personally believe that it is harram to send Muslim children to learn from non-Muslims. Every time I see a Muslim child in a Catholic school I just want to p ull out my hair! But that's just me. As for discpline I do not believe in spanking, however, I respect those who do. Every mother knows whats right for her children. I'm a big fan of millitary discpline, time out's, loosing privalleges, and other methods. I also believe that a mother must be confident in her own talents, skills, a nd abilities when it comes to parenting or else her children will run all over her. The Optimistic Child: Proven Program to Safeguard Children from Depression & Build Lifelong Resilience - Martin E. Seligman; 12 Simple Secrets Real Moms Know: Getting Back to Basics and Raising Happy Kids - Michele Ed.D. Borba; Emotionally Intelligent Parenting: How to Raise a Self-Disciplined, Responsible, Socially Skilled Child - Maurice J. Phd Elias The Hidden Feelings of Motherhood Second Edition by Kathleen A. Kendall-Tackett What Mothers Do: Especially When it Looks Like Nothing by Naomi Stadlen The Ghost in the House: Motherhood, Raising Children, and Struggling with Depression by Tracy Thompson Don't Give Me That Attitude!: 24 Rude, Selfish, Insensitive Things Kids Do and How to Stop Them by Michele Ed.D. Borba Growing Little Women: Capturing Teachable Moments with Your Daughter by Donna Miller, Christine Yount Together So You Can Live Too by Adele Faber, Elaine Mazlish
------------- Mrs. Dia |
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 05 December 2006 at 9:38am
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Good list UmmAminata.. Every time I see a Muslim child in a Catholic school I just want to p ull out my hair! But that's just me. I can ditto this. I met a couple of men who were raised in Catholic schools and their idea of religion was rather "interesting." One cannot help but be influenced by the environment. Maybe there are public schools that are nearby that are non-demoniational. You'd be better at a Quaker school in my opinion. ------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |
Posted By: umss
Date Posted: 06 December 2006 at 6:16am
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as salam aleikou sisters, Thanks so much for these replies. I feel I am getting on there now. I prayed and prayed to ask Allah the Almighty to give me the knowledge and power to raise up my girls in the best way. Allah Han Duliallah, I feel the situation gets changed a bit now. Now, I will keep my girl praying with me after school everyday, and also we do a 30 minutes Quran reading every evening, by this way, I would have chance to implement the the verses into education on her personally. If anyone who knows more Hadiths on bring up kids, I would like to hear from you! Also could anyone tell me which part of Quaran tells exactly about this? Sis UmmAminata, thank you for your list, i decide to go for some of them, however, can you tell the ones on Islamic subject? Salam umss |
Posted By: UmmAminata
Date Posted: 06 December 2006 at 11:48am
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Salaam O Alaikum Hayfa If people would learn the proper manner of doing things such as marriage and parenting according to sacred law prior to doing it, then so many issues could be avoided! It is harram to give your children to christian or jewish schools.
Salaam umss I do not know of any Islamic books on parenting by Islamic writers however sheik Hamza Yusuf has a gread c.d. titled " Educating our children in modern times" that I recommend to every Muslim parent. ------------- Mrs. Dia |
Posted By: niqab_ummi
Date Posted: 08 December 2006 at 5:54pm
------------- Umm Abdelkhalek |
Posted By: umss
Date Posted: 09 December 2006 at 1:43pm
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asalam aleikou sister Niqab thanks for your advice, but could you please give me more explaination on this? I would have to say go back to the Sunnah and follow the 3-7's rule as a basis or foundation....and build on that. assalama |
Posted By: niqab_ummi
Date Posted: 10 December 2006 at 5:27pm
------------- Umm Abdelkhalek |