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Questions about Western European Muslims

Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islam for non-Muslims
Forum Description: Non-Muslims can ask questions about Islam, discussion for the purpose of learning.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8043
Printed Date: 23 November 2024 at 9:10am
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Topic: Questions about Western European Muslims
Posted By: Curious
Subject: Questions about Western European Muslims
Date Posted: 30 December 2006 at 10:31pm
Maybe the Nationality doesn't matter so much compared to just the Religion. If I were to specify I'd like to know more about the Bosniak culture of Muslims.

I know they are generally widespread Sunni, so I assume it's posible that if I've picked the wrong forum for my questions they can still be answered.

I'm mainly curious about Dating, and marriage outside of the Religion. I know neither are accepted. So I guess I'm just curious about the ramifications. I've read about honor killings, and I know that it is a cultural thing and not a Religious one. So any information on this would be appriciate.

I guess if it will make it easier. I've pretty much fallen in love with a Bosnia Muslim girl born in yugoslavia but who has lived in America since she was three. I know she's muslim and she says she has a huge respect for her Religion, but she has dated before (granted other Muslims) even though I've heard thats agianst the Religion. As well as she doesn't wear the hooded scarf most Muslim women wear. She feels the same way I do, it's just I'm worried about her family who definately wouldn't accept me. She's told me she was beaten alot growing up so I'm worried about what might happen to her.

I'd also like to know about converting. I don't really have a religion, i have beliefs, but I'd just like to know some basics i guess. If i did convert, would a muslim family see me as a normal muslim? Can i even convert?

Thanks for any help that is given



Replies:
Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 30 December 2006 at 10:43pm

Yes you would be viewed as a normal Muslim. Yes of course you can convert, anybody can convert to Islam. Islam is a universal relegion, not only for bosnians, arabs, jews, or any group.

Basics are:

- Believe in God and associate no partners with him. (no son no daughter no trinity) He is one, far exhalted, and very merciful.

- Believe in His messenges. Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Mohammed, peace be upon them, and of course the rest of the prophets.

Muslims believe in Jesus as a prophet not as Gods son. Muslims believe that on judgment day you would be judged by what you did, by your deeds, and your deeds only.

I advice you read the Quran brother, its very nice.

Heres a site to introduce you to Islam hopefully it would be helpfull to you:

http://www.islam-guide.com - www.islam-guide.com

 



Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 30 December 2006 at 10:45pm
Islam is a very wonderful relegion. A smile is considered a type of charity. A good word, a compliment, is also a type of charity. It stresses the idea of high exhalted manners and ethics and generosity. You also have to be very good to your parents.


Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 31 December 2006 at 2:04am

here is also an AMAZING site made by american Muslims, converts, they have many useful things in the site and a chat place where Muslim scholars are there most the time so they can answer many of your questions if not all, inshAllah (God willinng)

http://islamtomorrow.com/ - http://islamtomorrow.com/

And here are some of the scientific miracles in the Glorius Quran:

http://islamyesterday.com/science/ - http://islamyesterday.com/science/

As for your race, God tells us in the Quran that:

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other.  Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran, 49:13)

So race is no problem at all in Islam. Islam believes in universal brotherhood =)

 



Posted By: Curious
Date Posted: 31 December 2006 at 12:19pm
I really appriciate this, thanks for the help.


Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 31 December 2006 at 1:09pm
Anytime bro


Posted By: superme
Date Posted: 31 December 2006 at 10:31pm

Few years ago my divorced sister met a man of my age who want to marry her, she asked me for what to do. I knew for a fact that she likes him and he likes her. The problem was - he was not muslim, a spanish.

I spoke to him about her difficulty for marrying a non muslim. But thank God he had such understanding - he took the shahadah on his own effort.

Now he is such an enthusiastic muslim that I even try to slow him down a bit. He is in the state in persuading her to go hajj next year while his wife is still worrying about their works. He said: "we got the money for hajj, let us go hajj and think about work later".

So brother, those who pray together - stay together, I think.

 



Posted By: on1on5
Date Posted: 12 January 2007 at 11:02am

This became a brotherhood party  but as a sister I have a few contributions.

Bosniak Muslims are noble, beautiful hearted but very much injured people who faced many tortures and genocide in their history. Effects of European culture in a balanced combination with Islam is observed in their way of living.

You are very lucky that Allah opened a door to you through this lovely person. One of the names of Allah is Vedud that is the source of love. I'm sure that her family will be very enthusiastic to accept you to their company.

Two notes: I dont know if it is ever discussed before but I hope the misnomer about Allah "he" don't confuse you. Sexuality cannot be attributed to Allah by any means. Allah is higher and higher than any that human mind can shape.

And second; cultural affairs and Islam may sometimes be mixed up but you should know that Islam is not against two people talking to each other to understand each other better and to decide if they will continue their lives together under the common roof of a lovely family-if it is what you mean by dating.  

I hope you will find the right way to Allah who is much closer to you than your main artery in the neck-as it is said in Kuran -and come together with the Bosniak girl.

selam...



Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 23 January 2007 at 4:22am

The prophet also said that:

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. You know that every Muslim is the brother of another Muslim. Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not astray from the path of righteousness after I am gone."

 



Posted By: Ghazzali
Date Posted: 01 February 2007 at 12:52pm

Assalamualikum.Well it's good if anyone wants to embrace islam and we all welcome anyone who wants to. But I have some thoughts regarding this matter.

What's happpening here is that someone has fallen in love with another girl and he wants to convert because he wants to marry her,but not because he believes islam is the right path.I would like my muslim brothers and sisters to shed some light on this. I am not sure whether this is the way to go about choosing a faith. He is embracing islam because his lover happens to be a muslim.So, we may infer that if the girl was Buddist, he would have chosen buddism ( with all respect to buddism),or Hinduism for that matter, or even atheism, depending on his lover's faith.

I think it would be better if we could convince Mr. Curious that he should embrace islam because it is the right faith, and not just because he loves a muslim girl. The muslim girl is just a catalyst.

I again reiterate I am not sure about what I have opined, so I would like my brothers and sisters to contribute.

And Curious, you are always welcome in the world of Islam.May Allah bless you.



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The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it.


Posted By: Curious
Date Posted: 16 February 2007 at 12:28pm
Ah Well I just realise I put Western European Muslims and not Eastern.

I've read the qur'an. As well as a book for non muslims to help better understand the Qur'an

It's funny because believe in alot of what it has to say, and alot of my own views that i've had over the years are expressed in the Qur'an. I was born into a christian family, but we were never pushed into going to church. My father wanted us to have our own non biased view on the world. One of the huge problems I have with most religions is that when I die, I won't get to see the good people I care about who wern't in the "right" religion in heaven. No matter how much good they did, or how they went about life, just because they wern't christian, or cathelic ect. they won't get into heaven. I've always had a strong belief in god, I feel like you couldn't live in this day and age without noticing things that just scream his existence.

I also feel that, if we put us all here. Gave us life. Then I should have to "fear" him like a good "god fearing" christian. that saying has always pissed me off. It would be like fearing my mother or father.

But at the same time...even though I read the Qur'an and agree with it's views wholeheartidly. I don't think I could convert. It would for one contradict my view that religion shouldn't matter as long as you believe in him and led a good life. As well as, there are too many things open for misinturpretation. The book preaches equality among men and women. But at the same time men can marry out side of islam and women can't. And also the trend among muslim families to mistreat the women. I can't stand that, even though I know it isn't like a huge majority. But there is a verse in the Qur'an that could easily be taken as "You can beat your wife after three strikes."

"As for those (women) from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, then banish them to beds apart, then scourge them. but if they obey you, seek not a way agianst them. lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great" (4:34)

So if I converted to Islam, it would not be with all my heart.


Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 16 February 2007 at 10:33pm

Originally posted by Curious Curious wrote:

 The book preaches equality among men and women. But at the same time men can marry out side of islam and women can't.

Give examples.

Originally posted by Curious Curious wrote:

And also the trend among muslim families to mistreat the women.

From where did you get this idea? What people do, does not always represent Islam. We know that many nonmuslim men too illtreat their wife/girlfriend. Domestic violence is too much in nonmuslims countries. I cannot blame any religion for actions of a misled person/people. 

Originally posted by Curious Curious wrote:

I can't stand that, even though I know it isn't like a huge majority. But there is a verse in the Qur'an that could easily be taken as "You can beat your wife after three strikes."

"As for those (women) from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, then banish them to beds apart, then scourge them. but if they obey you, seek not a way agianst them. lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great" (4:34)


Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husbands absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husbands property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see illconduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

You must know the exact meaning to understand . Islam has given right to men and women both. We are obliged to fulfill our duties towards our spouse. If either of the spouse does not give the rights of the other, a marriage can collapse. Or least leave you unhappy.

If your wife disobeys you, behaves immorally or immodestly or rebels, or ignores you, gives more importance to her own family and does not take care of your needs/likes/dislikes. Her behaviour is really upsetting. Not like, she forgot to put salt in the food and you can beat her. No. In serious issues where it may harm her or you or your relations. Where it is necessary to correct her.

First you explain to her the reasons like you would do normally, ie. talk to her. If she does not listen and answers back and is adamant then you sleep away from her. If she still misbehaves then you can lightly "hit" her. Its like touching with a "miswaak" (stick used for cleaning teeth).

It is not allowed to "beat" your wife. No pain should be inflicted, no striking the face. Imagine this scene, a child is walking towards a burning candle or towards the edge of a terrace. You try to stop him but he doesn't listen, he throws a tantrum and insists on doing it, what will you do? tell me..

Men have to treat their women kindly, our beloved prophet stressed on this many times, even in his last speech. He was a great example of a good husband. He NEVER hit his wives. It is not a command that all muslim men should beat up their wives. Islam is a religion of peace and mercy. And a religion of justice. I hope it is clearer now. Any more doubts?

peace.



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Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: Curious
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 5:15pm
I completely understood the verse before posting it, though I thank for for trying to make it clear. My point was that it could be taken out of context. Which can be said for alot of things I'm sure. As the dominate man in a household, someone could take any variety of things as a "way agianst them". and while it is very true that in all cultures everywhere women are mistreated. I've very often heard about muslim women getting acid thrown on them, having body parts cut off, and extreme beatings. It could be that the reason you hear about it more in muslim cultures currently is due to the current outlook on muslims at least in America. But having any doubts in my mind means even if I converted, I still wouldn't be muslim.

As far as an example for muslim men marrying outside of the religion, I guess that would be hard to give. And I don't have a verse or sunnah to quote. But I read that muslim men are alloud to marry christian, jewish, cathelic and so on women while muslim women can only marry muslim men. The reason being that the dominate religion in a household is normally the Husband's, which will influence the children.


Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 8:11pm

Originally posted by Curious Curious wrote:

I completely understood the verse before posting it, though I thank for for trying to make it clear. My point was that it could be taken out of context. Which can be said for alot of things I'm sure. As the dominate man in a household, someone could take any variety of things as a "way agianst them". and while it is very true that in all cultures everywhere women are mistreated. I've very often heard about muslim women getting acid thrown on them, having body parts cut off, and extreme beatings. It could be that the reason you hear about it more in muslim cultures currently is due to the current outlook on muslims at least in America. But having any doubts in my mind means even if I converted, I still wouldn't be muslim.

As far as an example for muslim men marrying outside of the religion, I guess that would be hard to give. And I don't have a verse or sunnah to quote. But I read that muslim men are alloud to marry christian, jewish, cathelic and so on women while muslim women can only marry muslim men. The reason being that the dominate religion in a household is normally the Husband's, which will influence the children.

Greetings Curious,

I assume you are more worried about "what happens in muslim countries", "what muslim men do", "quran taken out of context" etc....

First of all, no one can force you to be muslim. Secondly, Allah is calling you to the right path (yes, quran has come down for you too)and if He wills no one can hold you from accepting the truth. Concentrate on what Allah is trying to tell you rather than what some muslim men have done/doing.

You will hear a lot of stories. You know, Muslims verify "news" before believing it? There are good muslim husbands as well.  The frenzy created by the medis against muslims should not mislead you.

Show me one culture anywhere in the world where women are treated better than men.  Being head of the family is one thing and illtreating your wife is another. Islam has given those rights to women which were elusive for centuries. I can find faults in various cultures where women are treating worse than animals. Want to know?

A woman's status in Islam is so high, as a mother, as a wife, as a daughter, sister.... It will take a whole day for me to post the rights of women. They are not just in text, they are practiced as well. I will address the issue of marrying nonmuslims later...

Peace.



-------------
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)



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