wibisono wrote: Dear all muslim. I'm a muslim from south east asian, I have a friend who is not believe in god. He said that Jesus is a man creation so does any other religions. He claimed that humanity is his "religion". I have long discussion with him and end up with question: "Is it true that Islam is considered that infidel is a low form life?" Please some one show me the truth. He refer to some quran verses such as " O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123) " Regards Wibi

My Dear "Muslim" brother Wibisono,

Though your comments and then finally the verse you quoted doesn't appear to be linked up, however, before you do anything, please provide the reference from where you got this translation of verse 9:123? The one I have (from one of the internet site) the wordings are somewhat different and here it is for you read and understand the difference.

[123] O ye who believe! Fight the Unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

Kindly note the word "gird" in my posting and "near" in yours. Similarly "firmness" against "hardness". One may argue on the use of the preferential translation, however, since we (all muslims) have the original Quran in Arabic with us, so there is no problem to refer the issue to the original word in Quran. Moreover, I beleive that all verses like these where fighting in literal sense is mentioned in Quran is against the aggressors and those who used to persecute muslims because of their faith in Allah. (Kindly refer to history of Islam with regard to persecution these pagans had caused over early muslim converts). So, over here in this verse, I think, muslims are being permitted to fight back with those pagans who "Girded" them; not because they were pagans but because of their atrocities. Rest Allah knows the best.

Thankyou very much for your answer, its a released for me.

I have more verses that I think has a wrong translatation.

Here are some of them :

-------------------------------------------------

To prevent misunderstanding of my intention
I decided to erased the quotes I had posted in this topic.
The quotes was out of context and could make people misunderstood.
--------------------------------------------
If you wonder wher did my firnd got those translation, well he said he got it from this URL:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ - http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
 
Islam need people like you to verify the content of quran so they won't have misperception.
If you like I can post the complete dialog beetwen me and my friend so you can analyze how wrong is their perception about Islam.
My friend Ahmad, I have a strong faith to Islam but my knowledge is shalow.
I'm so glad to find you who has ability to answer my question this will even strengthen my faith.
Regards

Wibi

Dear AhmadJoyia

wibisono wrote: Dear AhmadJoyia Thankyou very much for your answer, its a released for me. I have more verses that I think has a wrong translatation. Here are some of them : --------------------------------------- Direct quotes from the Quran: ANNOUNCE PAINFUL PUNISHMENT TO THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE (9:3)

By quoting only a partial verse like this from Quran has actually revealed your true identity, 'O' my "Muslim" brother. Nevertheless, you are not the first one, and I may not assume, you to be the last one to bring such verses and paste them here on such forums totally out of context. I thought, in my honest opinion, that you would try to rationalize and may ponder over my previous reply. Though the translational variations may change the meanings of the verse drastically, but Alhamdollilha we have the original Quran in Arabic with us. On the more this language "Arabic" is not a dead language like aramic or near to be dead like greek. Its a daily spoken language. Therefore there is no chance of getting wrong in understanding of Quran for a long and corrections to misunderstandings during translations can be done with relative ease. Instead of replying you on all of these verses one by one, (some how I already sensed that all lot of more to come from you) therefore I have already provided you the general background for these verses and why were these revealed. The order to figth was not against their beleifs but against their oppression that they had caused over the muslims. I shall advice you to i) first of read the basic life biography of Prophet Mohammad from any good book. ii) Then go back to these verses and start reading them with reference to their context which obviously come from reading the complete chapter and not just one verse in isolation. This would definitely require hard work which I think you are willing to put into it and not just doing cut and paste kind of a thing.

wibisono wrote: ..If you wonder wher did my firnd got those translation, well he said he got it from this URL: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ - http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

wibisono wrote: Islam need people like you to verify the content of quran so they won't have misperception.

wibisono wrote: If you like I can post the complete dialog beetwen me and my friend so you can analyze how wrong is their perception about Islam.

wibisono wrote: My friend Ahmad, I have a strong faith to Islam but my knowledge is shalow. I'm so glad to find you who has ability to answer my question this will even strengthen my faith. Regards Wibi

My dear brother, you may not last long, not only in this faith but in any discipline, if you don't get knowldge about it. What good it will do to you if you simply cut and paste the questions and replies to and fro without developing your own understanding about Islam? Even if you get satisfied with my replies, that is not at all enough. You must, and I say again, you must have to start to learn about your faith right from its own source. That is, Quran. Read and then try to ponder over its verses as they themselves speaks to you. They shall tell you that this book is the most authentic book of this world and there is no (I repeat no) doubt about it. No book on this earth is comparable to it. So, with so much precious knowledge is within your reach, its pity that you remained aloof from it. Nevertheless, nothing is never too late as long as you put up all your resources onto this task of learning about your faith. I can only pray (who ever you are) to Allah, the God to whom Prophet Jesus also used to pray, that He may guide all of us to the right path. Amen.

AhmadJoyia wrote: By quoting only a partial verse like this from Quran has actually revealed your true identity, 'O' my "Muslim" brother.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm a really newbie in this forum so I don't actually acknowledged with the ethic code of this forum.

I thought that this forum is only for muslims so I thought it's ok if I paste some quotes which I got from some one that confrontating me with those verses.

I really disturbed when he showed me those verses that I feel is not right but I don't have knowledge to counter him, then I decide to find some help by simply forwarding the quotes.

For all muslim brother please accept my apology if what I have done here is unproper or unpolite or out of context or hurt somebodies feeling, I don't mean it, its purely because of I don't aware about it, about how to get help in proper way.

AhmadJoyia wrote: Instead of replying you on all of these verses one by one, (some how I already sensed that all lot of more to come from you) therefore I have already provided you the general background for these verses and why were these revealed. The order to figth was not against their beleifs but against their oppression that they had caused over the muslims.

Yes its my mistake didn't realized it from the start. I should known that your first answer is relevant to all those verses.

AhmadJoyia wrote: I shall advice you to i) first of read the basic life biography of Prophet Mohammad from any good book. ii) Then go back to these verses and start reading them with reference to their context which obviously come from reading the complete chapter and not just one verse in isolation. This would definitely require hard work which I think you are willing to put into it and not just doing cut and paste kind of a thing.

Its a live time learning process I think , but as a muslim I'll do it. I just thougth that I will find help in easyway in this forum. This experience give me lessons that nothing could come in an easyway.

AhmadJoyia wrote: Yes, I do wonder because your reference provides three translations including the one that I mentioned in my previous quote. Had you been little mindful, you would have picked up the differences yourself. But as I said, you can hide your ID, but not your intentions. Of course, you may not admit it, and I don't care about it either.

AhmadJoyia wrote: I am sorry, you are grossly wrong. Islam doesn't need me nor any one. Its me and only me who needs Islam. Its my humble wish to be a muslim, not because of blind faith, but with full concious of mind.

AhmadJoyia wrote: My dear brother, you may not last long, not only in this faith but in any discipline, if you don't get knowldge about it. What good it will do to you if you simply cut and paste the questions and replies to and fro without developing your own understanding about Islam? Even if you get satisfied with my replies, that is not at all enough. You must, and I say again, you must have to start to learn about your faith right from its own source. That is, Quran. Read and then try to ponder over its verses as they themselves speaks to you. So, with so much precious knowledge is within your reach, its pity that you remained aloof from it.

Its easy for to say, you understand arabic language as your mother language. Not me, I'm Asian and I speak no Arab. My father was trying to educate me with arabic letters when I was in elementary scholl. But the method was wrong I can't read it till now and this is tipical of all Indonesian student. They are not read it but they memorize it. Even if they can read the letters they don't understand the meaning of the word. Thats pitty but that is reality here in Indonesia.

AhmadJoyia wrote: Nevertheless, nothing is never too late as long as you put up all your resources onto this task of learning about your faith. I can only pray (who ever you are) to Allah, the God to whom Prophet Jesus also used to pray, that He may guide all of us to the right path. Amen.

Amien... thank you for your support. As I said before its a live time strugle to understand my faith.

I don't mind to reveale my identity because my intention is sincere. To understand Islam as my faith but seems like not all people in this forum have the same intention as mine. I had read other threads and obviously there are many of them are not sincere muslim.

I think this forum is not suitable for me. If some one is willing to help via private email they are welcome. Before I post my private email here any advice of how I will do it in a proper way?

wibisono

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edited by admin to correct the appearance

firewall wrote: I believe the Quran stated muslims should be peaceful towards the non-believers who are peaceful to us. & patient towards the others. & defend ourselves if ever threatened.

I Totally agree with you about that my problem is how to explain to the non-believers that are already having misunderstanding about Islam, especially when they show us inaccurate translation quotes from Quran. Then we must explain what is not right from the translation.

I need to find well educated and humble one to do that for me.

Salam Wibisono

Of course, as Muslims we should not miss any opportunity to discuss our faith with others, or to invite towards Islam. This must be done appropriately, however.

In my experience, there are two type of people that will question you regarding your faith. The first type is someone who may seem hostile and confrontational in the begining, however, if you answer his question from correct sources (i.e., give him the correct answers), you will find him more receptive and wanting to learn more.

The second type of person will approach you in a very sweet and nice way. He will try to engage you in discussion " on the spot", and try to encourage you to give your own interpretation of Quran, although he knows you are not qualified to do so. If you say to him, "I need to check on this and get back to you with the right answer", you will see in his face that he is not happy with this. If you give him the correct answer to his question, he will lose interest in you.

For this reason it is important not to rely on yourself or other non-scholars to answer your question, especially when speaking with those outside of Islam. This will give you an indication as to who is sincere in wanting to learn about Islam and who is simply trying to attack you. Alway make sure you can quote your sources for information.

Thank you Ali Zaky,

You advise is very helpfull

I'll try to analyse everyone who ask me about my faith in your way.

And for David thank you for the advise,

I will always try to be a good friend to anyone.

Regards

Wibisono