Print Page | Close Window

Great "Democratic" Justice

Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Politics
Forum Name: Current Events
Forum Description: Current Events
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=829
Printed Date: 12 December 2024 at 8:03am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Great "Democratic" Justice
Posted By: Whisper
Subject: Great "Democratic" Justice
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 10:00am

Marine cleared of Falluja killing
Thursday 05 May 2005

The US Marine Corps has ruled that no charges will be filed against a marine in the fatal shooting of a wounded and unarmed Iraqi in a Falluja mosque last November in an incident shown in a television pool report, a spokesman has said.

After a five-month investigation, the Marine Corps determined that the marine corporal fired in self-defence and will not face court martial, spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel T V Johnson said.

"The commanding general of the First Marine Division determined that the action of the Marine involved in the incident was pretty much consistent with the established rules of engagement and the law of armed conflict," Johnson told CBS Radio.

NBC News reported earlier that the decision was based partly on the fact that marines had been warned fighters were feigning death and booby-trapping bodies and that the corporal apparently feared for his life when he fired the shots.

Second incident investigated

The Marine was seen in images on the videotape that was shared with other news organisations. NBC said a second marine remains under investigation for shooting another unarmed man in the mosque.

The US military opened the investigation into possible war crimes after the incident was recorded by an NBC television crew embedded with the marines.

The Iraqi was one of five wounded left in the mosque after the marines fought their way into Falluja, then held by fighters.




Replies:
Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 12:26am

But they only caught _one_ murder on film - those soliders actually shot 5 injured unarmed soldiers in that mosque.

Click on the "transcript" link at the bottom of this page:

http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/index.php?page=archive&daysum=2005-04-20 - http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/index.php?page=archive&d aysum=2005-04-20 #

Or you can actually watch the article by clicking on the other link.

The cameraman, Kevin Sites, has had a very hard time since he returned to the US - people have branded him a traitor for revealing the truth.

Kim...



Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 12:32am

Ok, here's the transcript:

Archives - April 20, 2005
javascript printPage -
Shoot the Messenger
Last November when a US marine shot dead an unarmed, wounded Iraqi in a Fallujah mosque, the story created international headlines. In fact, it was the biggest scandal to hit the US military in Iraq since Abu Ghraib. What we still don't know is what actually went on outside the frame of that now infamous image? What were the personal choices involved, the ethical decisions that had to be made? And what did that incident reveal about US reporting from Iraq. In his first international interview, the journalist responsible for capturing that awful shooting spoke with Dateline's Sophie McNeill, and a warning - this story contains strong language and confronting images. Let me say that we've left some particularly graphic scenes in this report because we believe they're critical to understanding exactly what happened that day in Fallujah.



REPORTER: Sophie McNeill

There were a number of journalists embedded with the US Marines as they embarked on the battle for Fallujah in November of last year. One of those reporters was Kevin Sites from the American network NBC.

KEVIN SITES, NBC NEWS: This morning the marines, the marines swept into the centre of the city unopposed.

Kevin has spent nearly 10 months as an embedded journalist in Iraq. But he'd never before captured anything like this.

SOLDIER: He's faking he's f***ing dead.

KEVIN SITES: I had a pit in my stomach. I didn't feel like this was great footage. I knew exactly what it was. It was something that has been captured on camera very few times in war.

Reports of a marine shooting an unarmed, wounded combatant quickly flashed around the world.
At the time, most Western audiences didn't even get to see the shooting. For instance, NBC only showed this black-and-white still. But with Kevin's raw footage and his eyewitness account, Dateline can now reveal the full story behind the incident.
It had all begun the day before the shooting. Kevin had been at that same mosque with a unit of the third battalion first marine division. As the US troops fought their way into the mosque on that Friday, they had killed 10 out of 15 suspected insurgents.

SOLDIER: Yeah, we've got to f***ing put two in each bag.

Five wounded men remained. They were disarmed and treated by marine medics.

KEVIN SITES: Their wounds didn't seem to be life-threatening, they were serious but not life-threatening and I asked the lieutenant colonel what will be done with these men? Will they be evacuated? And he said, "Yes, they will." So we left that mosque, the men were still alive. Apparently they were left unguarded but without weapons or anything and the marines advanced forward, moving south from the city.

The next morning, on the Saturday, Kevin and the marines returned to that mosque after reports of fresh fire from the area. When Kevin was still outside the mosque, he heard shooting.

SOLDIER: They're on the fourth floor. Far right, far right.

KEVIN SITES: We heard gunshots outside the mosque before we went in. And to my ear - I'm pretty familiar with what an M16 sounds like - they were single M16 gunshots and there were three of them.
It sounded like someone was being fired upon, and then moving over, firing again and then firing again.

Kevin overheard the following exchange between the platoon commander and his troops before they went inside.

SOLDIER: Did you shoot them?

SOLDIER 2: Roger that, sir.

KEVIN SITES: He comes up to the squad that had been inside the mosque and he says "Are there people inside there?" and the marine that had been inside holds up five fingers signalling five people inside. And then the lieutenant asks "Did you shoot them?", and the marine says "Roger that, sir." And then the lieutenant asks "Were they armed?" and the marine just shrugs his shoulders.

SOLDIER: Same guys from yesterday?

KEVIN SITES: These are the ones from yesterday. These are the wounded that they never picked up.
When I walked into that room, I immediately knew that these men that had just been shot again were the same wounded insurgents from Friday, from the day before.

So apart from the shooting Kevin captured on camera, he believes these other unarmed wounded men were also shot that day. This was largely ignored by the media at the time.

KEVIN SITES: We look at the evidence that these men were definitely shot again, freshly shot, after having been wounded the day before. And then one is actually killed point blank in front of my camera.

After capturing that image, Kevin discovers that this man is still alive.

MAN, (Translation): I was shot...

KEVIN SITES: what happened?

MAN ,(Translation): Please... I was shot... there... I spoke... with you... who are filming. Yesterday, here in front of the whole group. I gave information. Please. Speak Arabic anything?

KEVIN SITES: I don't speak Arabic.

MAN: I want to give you information.

The fate of this witness is unknown.

KEVIN SITES: I felt at that moment I wish I hadn't been there. I wish I hadn't been in that spot at that time just because I knew the responsibility I would have from that moment on.

Having been embedded with one particular marine unit for six weeks, Kevin had become very close to the men. But things changed dramatically after the shooting.

KEVIN SITES: It was a really dark time. I had time after this incident where I was moved to the rear from the front line, I had to leave my unit.

But the reaction from back home was much worse. Kevin came under personal attack from the American public.

KEVIN SITES: I spent my days poring over thousands of hate mails and death threats every day. They were calling me a traitor, a liberal media scumbag, hope that the next piece of video we see your severed head on your back, hope some marine frags you over there, hope the insurgents kill you, everything that you can possibly imagine. I'll be honest with you, there were times when I really felt like I wanted to destroy that tape and not release it to the public.

The controversy over Kevin's footage has fed into a growing debate about how the American media reports home from the war in Iraq. Kevin is showing these final-year journalism students the difference between the raw footage he shot and the report that was actually put to air.

KEVIN SITES: You probably have never seen this because I don't think it's even aired on American television, the full shooting.

With the war such a hot political issue, the American media has become very reluctant to criticise the actions of American soldiers. So even before Kevin received the hate mails, he and NBC knew the delicate tightrope they would have to tread.
In the NBC report, Kevin went to great lengths to explain why the marine might have pulled the trigger.

KEVIN SITES: These US Marines have had to fight for nearly every inch of ground taken in Fallujah. They've inflicted heavy casualties on insurgents here but have also suffered many of their own, some from a new and harrowing tactic - booby trapping dead bodies to explode when marines come near.
We were diluting it every step of the way. A lot of the mitigating circumstances we had to say over and over again - he got shot in the face, they booby trapped bodies. In fact we didn't start with the shooting at all. We talked about X, Y and Z and backed into it.
At the same time just a block away, one marine was killed and five wounded by the booby trapped body of a dead insurgent. So as dangerous as Iraq is, could the shooting be self-defence?
That was a conscious effort basically because we felt like we were going to take such fire on the story.

Some people might think that you defended the marine too much in your report.

KEVIN SITES: I think that people could make that argument. They could say that the mitigating circumstances were presented in such a strong forthright way that perhaps, you know, the incident that happened didn't get proper play.
The marine squad has already been in here and shot the wounded men again.

In the middle of all this media management and political controversy, the real debate appears to have been lost.

REPORTER: Do you think that because of a paranoia to tell both sides of the story, and to explain everything and to make sure you're not accused of being biased, do you think you can sometimes lose the truth?

KEVIN SITES: I think that the truth can become muddied in that process, I think that it can become fairly foggy.

Despite evidence of what appears to be a war crime, the tape hasn't provoked a much greater soul searching about acceptable rules of engagement for the US military.

KEVIN SITES: Are these the kind of rules of engagement we use? And if so, we should be very open about it. Are we willing to live with the fact that they may do the same thing to US soldiers and US marines and potentially, that kind of rules of engagement will they lead to other repercussions for us in society, will they create more terrorist acts because people feel we are behaving unnecessarily violent or barbaric in war?


Related Links
( Kevin Site's Official Website : http://www.kevinsites.net/ - http://www.kevinsites.net
When Sites was criticized for using the controversial footage, he answered the critics and explained his decisions in detail on his weblog.
( Payne Award for Ethics in Journalism : http://payneawards.uoregon.edu/news2005.html - http://payneawards.uoregon.edu/news2005.html
NEW YORK Kevin Sites, a freelance photojournalist for NBC, will be awarded the 2005 Payne Award for Ethics in Journalism on May 12 for his decision-making process after he witnessed and taped a U.S. Marine killing an unarmed Iraqi man in a mosque.

Sites decided to share the tape with the military, then he worked with NBC to create a "well-nuanced story that aired 48 hours after the incident," according to the Payne announcement. Since he was working as a pool photojournalist at the time, Sites shared the tape with the other news organizations in the pool.

When Sites was criticized after other outlets used the footage, he answered the critics and explained his decisions in detail on his Weblog, www.kevinsites.net.
< =1.1> < =1.1 src="http://-au.imrworldwide.com/a1.js"> < code=http://-au.imrworldwide.com/ height=2 width=1 code=Measure.>< NAME="_cx" VALUE="26">< NAME="_cy" VALUE="53">



Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 12:42am

I'm sorry, but having seen a documentary last week about US military personnel prostesting against the Vietnam war in the late 60's and early 70's in which one man described another soldier shooting, gutting then _skinning_ an injured, unarmed Vietnamese woman...I could pretty much believe just about _any_ evil of the US military.

Sure, there are probably some very decent people in the US military, but I'm guessing there are a LOT of psychopathic, motherless, rabid dogs, too.

Kim...



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 07 June 2005 at 10:55pm
Why should any decent person ever join the army. They can always do other things. The US army in particular trains and brain washes its recruits to misbehave. Is there any other reason WHY THE US WON'T SIGN up to the International Criminal Court?


Posted By: Harbhajan_M
Date Posted: 08 June 2005 at 9:47am
Oh yes and of course the religion of islam doesnt brain wash you into commiting suicide bombings does it??

I saw a video that shows a group of muslims getting a russian soldier, laying his head on the curb (on the pavement outside) and hacking his head off with a sword whilst he was still alive, AND YOU LOT CALL AMERICANS BRUTAL???
The US army is the best army in the world and it may not be the best behaved but in my honest opinion no body on this board has the right to criticise the US army as you all must support Islam which many consider to be a brutal faith, i must admit however that although islam may be portrayed strongly in the press, i do feel that to a point the press have the facts right. 


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 12 June 2005 at 1:06pm

Sat Sari Akal sir. Or should I say Nameskar?

Must congratulate you. You have won the prize for the best imagination in the world. US army is the best in the world in Holywood movies and then, perhaps, just in your imagination. Wonder if you could quote just one and a half example of its performance anywhere in the world?

My friend, no one can be brainwashed for blowing up one's ownself just like that. It takes generations of occupiers' cruelty to make a suicide bomber be it the Indians in Kashmir, the Israelis in Palestine or the Russians in Chechenya.

Sir, give me any area anywhere in the world. Shall we say New Orleans or somewhere near Dilli? I will kill only half as many people as have been killed in Palestine. I will buldoze no more than half the homes buldozed there and destroy no more than half their olive groves. Never let them get to the hospital when their women are about to give birth and shoot three year old girls up in front of their fathers. Sir, I will circle all their water wells by a huge wall under one pretext or the other and only then we will see how many suicide bombers germinate in that area.

If Islam was that cruel a religion you nor any other non-Muslim would have been breathing today - after 1016 years of total Muslim rule in India.

May Allah bless you + wah e Guru da Khalsa!!



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 12 June 2005 at 2:15pm

Sorry, I forgot to add.

You are absolutely right they should have showered flowers on that soldier who is there actually to get them and skin them if had half a chance?

Do you always talk like that or is it just some phase of immense useless chatter?



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 14 June 2005 at 2:39pm

The funniest thing about some posters with just a wee bit of untested venom against Islam is that whenever someon posts a proper response they just evaporate from the scene like dew on the first ray of sun.

Has anyone seen our Harbhajan?



Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 15 June 2005 at 1:01am
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:


Has anyone seen our Harbhajan?[/
P]



Harbhajan was a guest. Why would he come back now that Whisper has
confirmed his prejudices?

The Prophet was a general but I don't think he ever took hostages, or
assassinated people, used "guerilla" tactics, employed suicide bombers or
deliberately targeted civilians. I believe he used trade to avoid conflicts,
always fought under a flag with a volunteer army, was merciful and
generous with his enemies and insisted upon an honorable code of
conduct in battle.



-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 June 2005 at 3:10am

What prejudices may I ask the great one?

Let me confirm it just once again and in terms you may be able to understand:

it has taken over half a century of killing people, demolishing their homes and grabbing their lands in the most devilish way - sanctioned by the socalled civilised west - that creates suicide bombers.

Kindly address your sermon to the White Wash House and the hang Low Sexnon occupiers - not to this Afghan and only then I would think that you hold some courage beyond your words.

Gracias!



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 30 June 2005 at 8:38am

"The Prophet was a general but I don't think he ever took hostages, or assassinated people, used "guerilla" tactics, employed suicide bombers or deliberately targeted civilians. I believe he used trade to avoid conflicts, always fought under a flag with a volunteer army, was merciful and generous with his enemies and insisted upon an honorable code of conduct in battle."

One hundred and twenty three percent right.

That was the Prophet's noble era. It was a civilised wolrd. In our American age we are forced to play with the coins of this time. 



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 02 July 2005 at 11:09pm

Has anyone seen David C? Why people disappear like the morning dew when proper solid answers are provided.

Hope they don't expect just some boot lickers on this site?



Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 03 July 2005 at 12:28am
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

Has anyone seen David C? Why people disappear like the morning dew when proper solid answers are provided.

Hope they don't expect just some boot lickers on this site?

Es_Selam'un Aleykum Brother Whisper,

I don't think that has disappeared,i am sure reading...a note about David i think i can imagine;he does not support polarization,a man of peace...this may be noticed by you... 



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 04 July 2005 at 7:20am

Hos geldeniz kardes

I hope he comes back. I didn't mean to vapourise him, but sadly I am a straight shooting Afghan and can say just how I feel specially after the US has placed an ex-Burger Bar owner as our President.

The situation there has been bad in these past 3 or so weeks.




Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net