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second chances

Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Culture & Community
Forum Name: Groups : Men (Brothers)
Forum Description: Groups : Men (Brothers)
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8827
Printed Date: 22 November 2024 at 1:04am
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Topic: second chances
Posted By: rookaiya
Subject: second chances
Date Posted: 13 March 2007 at 3:32am

asalamu alaikum

does anyone know the reason why , if a man gives his wife talaaq, then she has to marry someone else and consumate that marriage, before her husband can remarry her?

how easy is it from a mans point of view to remarry a woman after u know shes been with another man. especially if when u first married her , she was a virgin. and now she has a child from her other marriage. can this remarriage survive all these factors? is it natural for any man to accept this or is it a battle.




Replies:
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 12:17am
Originally posted by rookaiya rookaiya wrote:

asalamu alaikum

does anyone know the reason why , if a man gives his wife talaaq, then she has to marry someone else and consumate that marriage, before her husband can remarry her?

how easy is it from a mans point of view to remarry a woman after u know shes been with another man. especially if when u first married her , she was a virgin. and now she has a child from her other marriage. can this remarriage survive all these factors? is it natural for any man to accept this or is it a battle.


waalykum asalam
This is called "the secret penalty"  cuz Allah  gave the man step with 3 Talaaqs to be pronounced at 3 different times and so much waiting periods. If the man is a egoist moron(naf's slave) for abusing some body which was good but if still decides to go all the way to the finalizing divorce anyways.
Now is the time to suffer the  consequences cuz Allah is just if this clause was not there it would have been no protection for the women in their marriages in the times of old. Subhanallah



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 12:44am

well in this scenario the man only gave one talaaq in one sitting. he used the works "SO I SET YOU FREE." when the ulema questioned him about these words, he confirmed that his intention was to give his wife talaaq. accordingly the ulema advised the wife that this was an irrevocable talaaq. the wife was then asked to observe her iddat period. no one even looked into the possiblity that the woman may have had her period at the time.

what if the sister did inded have her period when her husband uttered these words. he didnt utter them as such but he sent her an email with these words. the sister has subsequently remarried . but now the issue of the validity of the previous talaaq has surfaced.



Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 15 March 2007 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by rookaiya rookaiya wrote:

well in this scenario the man only gave one talaaq in one sitting. he used the works "SO I SET YOU FREE." when the ulema questioned him about these words, he confirmed that his intention was to give his wife talaaq. accordingly the ulema advised the wife that this was an irrevocable talaaq. the wife was then asked to observe her iddat period. no one even looked into the possiblity that the woman may have had her period at the time.

what if the sister did inded have her period when her husband uttered these words. he didnt utter them as such but he sent her an email with these words. the sister has subsequently remarried . but now the issue of the validity of the previous talaaq has surfaced.


I don't know if the misbehavior of the husband can be fixed now by doubting and when she married some one else after the the iddat period. I am afraid it is called oh well day late  and dollar short.If the Ulema said  the tallaq was irrevocable, it was the job of the Alim to check and question then. Were they living apart when the divorce happened and  was finalized?


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 15 March 2007 at 10:47pm

yes they were living apart at that time. the Moulana called the husband telephonically and asked what he intended by the email. the husband confirmed that he intended talaaq. at that time, the husband and wife had been separated for about 2 months and the husband had married someone else.

the husband claims that his wife had put him in the corner and that she was hasty to seek talaaq. however , the wife is of the view that her actions were justified since he had married someone else and he had sent her that email. he didnt make any efforts at that time to reconcile with her or try and sort out thier differences.



Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 16 March 2007 at 7:51pm
I am not a Mufti just cuz so many people are getting divorces amongst the friends and relatives in the US  I think the Islamic process is getting lost. The people have less faith and patience relatively speaking, people are going the civil courts to do the part then the remorse sets in later.
Nothing can be done
in this particular case cuz they were separated the Moulana checked, the iddat was observed and finality of divorce declared. The case account on the surface looks closed.
The debate who did what has no value after the fact that she married some one else and had a kid.

The question of the period or no period doesn't figure if they were already separated.
Is she getting a divorce from her second husband after a kid, and wants to go back to the first?
This will be messy and bad bad scenario for the kid! and if things don't work out it will be a disaster all around.

What country do they live in? And how long have they been divorced after how long a marriage?
I think it is all the remorse bit late though.
And last thing just curious-- what are their birth dates if you can find out?
They must not be very compatible signs, just a guess!


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 18 March 2007 at 10:36pm

What country do they live in? south africa

 And how long have they been divorced after how long a marriage? they were married for 7 years and have been divorced for 3 years

And last thing just curious-- what are their birth dates if you can find out?
They must not be very compatible signs, just a guess! hes an aquarian and shes cancerian

its sad cos both seem very remorseful and seem keen to remarry. they both remarried too soon after the divorce and both their remarriages turned out to be disastorous.

but i think she needs to think about her kids first, especially the kid from her 2nd marriage. her ex might not accept this kid and might end up mistreating him. also waht if they remarry and then things dont work out. their kids will be devastated all over again. its too risky to walk down that path again

to complicate matters more, there is another brother who is keen to marry this sister. hes older than her. hes 48 and shes 32. hes known her for about 16 years . apparently he was keen to marry her after her first divorce, but before he could even approach her family, he learnt that she had already remarried

this brother knows her situation and accepts her and her kids. he seems to be a good person. but shes afraid to even consider this brother, given her past history of being let down by the men she married. the brother has told her that he is patient. he said hes prepared to wait for her to sort things out with her hubby, get her talaaq, and observe her iddat. hes keen to marry her, but hes also not rushing or pressuring her. he seems understanding.

all these things are making her very confused. the man that she truly loves is her ex hubby. her current hubby and her have been very good friends their whole life, but she doesnt have such strong feelings for him. as for this 3rd brother who wants to marry her, she is unsure of how she feels for him. but shes not ready to make any decisions in that regard until her talaaq is finalised. but her hubby refuses to give her talaaq. hes holding her "hostage", keeping her tied to him in marriage, yet living apart with his other wife.

could anyones life be more complicated than this?



Posted By: UmmTaaha
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:03am

Bismillah ir Rhman ir Rahim

Honestly if you ask me, this sister should give herself and her feelings some time. She should not decide in haste. She should not stay in touch with all these men, to allow herself the space she needs in making her decisions.

The best thing would be to go back to her current husband, and not finalise the divorce - best scenario for the kids, specially the youngest one.

Be a steadfast muslimah, and pray salat al istekharah before making any decisions.

 



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Adab with Allah is the proper fruit of obedience - Habib Ali Jifri


Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:23am

her husband is full of pride. he and his first wife are no longer together.but due to pride and arrogance, he will not try to reconcile with his second wife. hes acting very distant and uncaring. she doesnt knwo what else to do. shes worried cos he is leaving for DRC congo in 2 weeks and will only be back in october. she wants to resolve issues before he goes. he keeps giving her mixed messages

sometimes he comes across as caring and interested. then he suddenly backs away and acts all distant and uncaring. hes two extremes. no middle ground with him



Posted By: UmmTaaha
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:49pm

 

 

Dear Rookaiya,

It is more than likely this brother is unable to decide what is best in his and his family's interest. The sister should overlook his pride and give him time to decide.

If things are left undecided until October, they can give both parties enough time to re-evaluate their relationship and their intentions insha allah.

When minds become clouded and things are murky, time and distance can help in hte healing process.

 

Khair insha allah



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Adab with Allah is the proper fruit of obedience - Habib Ali Jifri


Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 10:51pm

maybe u right. but the sister isnt acting very rationally. last night she became very upset and she sent him some nasty text messages demanding talaaq and insulting him. i dont know she sometimes gets this way. she just becomes irrational and she starts insulting him and she says nasty and mean stuff to him. she i so pissed off cos he married her and he said he wouldnt leave her, but he walked out on her after thier baby was 3 months, and he reconciled with his first wife

after 10 months, his first wife has now kicked him out. reason being that she cant accept the fact that he remarried and she resents his child . when he has family functions the childs grandmothers ( the second wifes mother) attends the functions with the child. his sisters and his family lve and embrace the child and his first wife cant accept that. she also feels she cant trust him and she cant see her past pain. she just cant forgive him.

this has a ripple effect now cos all this is carried to the second wife, who is on the receiving end of all his instability. hes unable to continue his marriage with her, yet his unwilling to release her in talaaq. i think hes juts being very selfish

if he cared for any of his wives, he woudl try to resolve things. he would try to bring them together and create peace. instead he continues to hurt them both.

 

 



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"so surely with every difficulty there is relief. Surely with every difficulty there is relief. Surah 94. verses 5 and 6


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 1:38pm

What is the law of the land about these things? 

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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 10:44pm
in their country a muslim man is not prevented form making nikah to more than one spouse. but those nikahs dont get any legal recognition, so the law of the land doesnt regulate on it.

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"so surely with every difficulty there is relief. Surely with every difficulty there is relief. Surah 94. verses 5 and 6


Posted By: UmmTaaha
Date Posted: 22 March 2007 at 12:50am

 

Dear Rookaiya,

When this man married a second time, that was to protect this sister's honor - to give her and her children from her first marriage a protection and a descent home. It looks like he had all noble intentions in what he wanted to do. It is more than likely now he is torn between the two wives, and too confused to make a sensible decision.

Can you please advise his second wife to be patient, and do as a muslim wife should in times when her husband needs a companion and friend? I know it will be very diff for this sister, as even she is suffering in the midst of all these circumstances.  However, a believer is pateint under all conditions. And Allah has said that the reward of being among the as sabireen is the most excellent of all rewards.

The excellence of a muslim is not in fighting for his/her own rights, rather concentrating on the rights that others owe on this muslim.

When a person is surrounded by grief, the worst thing that happens is that s/he thinks there is nothing beyond it. The reality though is that this world is full of people who have circumstances even worse than our own. If we were to learn about them, our pain will fade at the face of misery they are going through. We are sometimes too selfish to block the news of all others, and block our hearts from concern and compassion for our fellow brothers and sisters. If we were to look at them we can only thank allah for the blessings He has put in our lives.

Rookaiya, there is nobody who is in perpetual bliss in this world. And the life of this world is fleeting. It is only a resting place for not more than three days. What have we prepared for the life that will come next? bickerings and quabbles with our fellow creatures? How will this profit when these 3 days are over?

I think this sister needs some spiritual counselling. If she is ready for one, I can try to arrange for her, so let me know, insha allah.

Tell her that I love her, and shall pray for her.

 

 



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Adab with Allah is the proper fruit of obedience - Habib Ali Jifri


Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 22 March 2007 at 7:06am
what kind of spiritual conselling are u talking about?

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"so surely with every difficulty there is relief. Surely with every difficulty there is relief. Surah 94. verses 5 and 6



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