What is the reason that Isa Son of Mariam was born thru a MIRACULOUS Virgin-birth but not prophet Mohammed?

As a Born-Again Isa Al Massih follower, I think that the god of Islam should have made prophet Mohammed be born thru a MIRACULOUS birth also, and given him more SUPERNATURAL POWER than was given to prophet Mohammed !

After all is not prophet Mohammed the SEAL of all prophets?

(BTW what does the word SEAL mean in Islam)?

harrdnut wrote: What is the reason that Isa Son of Mariam was born thru a MIRACULOUS Virgin-birth but not prophet Mohammed?

Why is it that God gave Adam a miraculous birth without father or mother, yet God only birthed Himself with one parent. You would figure that if God was going to walk the earth for the first time, then he would have beaten Adam's gigue.

These questions ignore the scope of the mission of the prophet and the necessary elements of that mission.

As a Born-Again Isa Al Massih follower, I think that the god of Islam should have made prophet Mohammed be born thru a MIRACULOUS birth also, and given him more SUPERNATURAL POWER than was given to prophet Mohammed !

As a follower of God I think that if God was going to walk on earth that he would not require a mother and could have done things in a much more miraculous way. And God would have had more supernatural powers than He allegedly gave Himself according to the NT.

1) The Prophet Muhammad (saw) was given a mission to mankind, Jesus was sent to the Jews (it was Paul that took a washed own version of what Jesus stood for to the pagan gentiles.

2) The Prophet Muhammad (saw) transmitted the final revelation to mankind.

3) The Prophet Muhammad (saw) was given many miracles. To try and say, "this was better than that" would demean minor prophets of your own bible compared to Jesus

4) In your mind Jesus is God, so it would be dumb to compare God to men.

After all is not he lastet Mohammed the SEAL of all prophets? (BTW what does the word SEAL mean in Islam)?

Yes.

It means he is the final prophet to mankind.  

harrdnut sounds as if he thinks the God of Islam is different from his God. Silly me, I didn't think anyone still did not realize that there is only one God-right?

harrdnut wrote: As a Born-Again Isa Al Massih follower, I think that the god of Islam should have made prophet Mohammed be born thru a MIRACULOUS birth also, and given him more SUPERNATURAL POWER than was given to prophet Mohammed !

In the bold i did, You mean Jesus

Mohammed was born wasn't he, is that not enough of a miracle for you

harrdnut wrote: What is the reason that Isa Son of Mariam was born thru a MIRACULOUS Virgin-birth but not prophet Mohammed? The Lord Almighty had shown all miracles and powerful signs through Moses. Those miracles were the sign of might given to Moses and he fought his way without having any army. In the case of Jesus, the Lord Almighty gave him power to heal, etc and the power of speaking in parables which the Jews knew well as they had been used to speaking, knowing and understanding parables. It also does not mean that Jesus was giving eye-sight, sound and life to the blind, deaf, dumb, dead and healing the lepers all over the land every day.   As a Born-Again Isa Al Massih follower, I think that the God of Islam should have made prophet Mohammed be born thru a MIRACULOUS birth also, and given him more SUPERNATURAL POWER than was given to prophet Mohammed ! In the case of Muhammad, there was no miracle to be shown as people had seen enough in the past. It was time to talk, argue, reason, discuss and debate. That is what Qur'aan is all about. The greatest miracle given to Muhammd is a book known as Qur'aan. Miraculous birth would not have helped a second time. Jesus was still born of a woman and that is how he came from his mother's womb, into this planet. After all is not prophet Mohammed the SEAL of all prophets? (BTW what does the word SEAL mean in Islam)? Means, no more prophets.

As other friends have enlightened you, I would not go into more details. Please read some comments in blue fonts. Those are mine.

Angel wrote: harrdnut wrote: As a Born-Again Isa Al Massih follower, I think that the god of Islam should have made prophet Mohammed be born thru a MIRACULOUS birth also, and given him more SUPERNATURAL POWER than was given to prophet Mohammed ! In the bold i did, You mean Jesus Mohammed was born wasn't he, is that not enough of a miracle for you

Short, sweet, cool and crisp, You!

Sorry. Posted twice.

Angel are you jewish?

Answering a question with a question. nice

mochiah wrote: Angel are you jewish? Answering a question with a question. nice

Nice question, mochiah. Angel is a mystery and I hope she remains a mystery. She is a bigger mystery than the trinity.  

maryann wrote: harrdnut sounds as if he thinks the God of Islam is different from his God. Silly me, I didn't think anyone still did not realize that there is only one God-right?

I not only think, but KNOW that the god of Islam can never be the Almighty God of the two prophets Moses and Jesus. (Moses of the Hebrews and Jesus of the Christians).

Please read the following words of Allah and tell me how Allah can be the God of the Jews and Christians!

1. [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

5.51 orders Muslims clearly that they should not get close to Jews and Christians because they are unjust people.

Now to the most important Ayat:

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

------------------------------------------------------------ -

Now, pl tell me how Allah is praying to Allah to destroy the Jews and the Christians if the Jews and the Christians are worshippers of the god of Islam?

bmzsp wrote: mochiah wrote: Angel are you jewish? Answering a question with a question. nice Nice question, mochiah. Angel is a mystery and I hope she remains a mystery. She is a bigger mystery than the trinity.

I am glad that you got it right about the Trinity.  It is a mystery.  Why?  Because it is about Who almighty God is.

If our human minds can KNOW Who Almighty God is then we become equal to Almighty God in knowledge.

Almighty God is INFINITE in all His attributes.  Think of any attribute,  Almighty God is UNLIMITED in it.

All human beings , being created beings, are limited in everything including our powers of thinking.  We can think faster than light.  But if I ask you where space begins and ends, you will get tongue-tied.  Why?  Because even going faster than light, your mind or my mind cannot think as to how big space is. The same goes for time.

We, trying to know who Almighty God is like asking my dog to multiply 2 by 3.  It can't do it.  Why?  It's mind does not have the capacity to do it.

Its the same when we think of the TRI-UNITED Almighty God.  Our finite minds cannot know Infinite Almighty God.  Only Almighty God can know Almighty God and Jesus knew Almighty God. (John 1: 1)

harrdnut,

From you: "I not only think, but KNOW that the god of Islam can never be the Almighty God of the two prophets Moses and Jesus. (Moses of the Hebrews and Jesus of the Christians)."

I am glad to read that you have confirmed that Jesus was a prophet like Moses. Good progress. Leave him at that  level.

Next, from you: "Please read the following words of Allah and tell me how Allah can be the God of the Jews and Christians!

1. [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

5.51 orders Muslims clearly that they should not get close to Jews and Christians because they are unjust people."

Q: Does the surah start with those verses. Is there anythingelse written before 5:51?

mochiah wrote: Angel are you jewish? Answering a question with a question. nice

ummm...no

I like to believe that i stated the obvious

bmzsp wrote: mochiah wrote: Angel are you jewish? Answering a question with a question. nice Nice question, mochiah. Angel is a mystery and I hope she remains a mystery. She is a bigger mystery than the trinity.

wow

I'm a mystery

Angel wrote: bmzsp wrote: mochiah wrote: Angel are you jewish? Answering a question with a question. nice Nice question, mochiah. Angel is a mystery and I hope she remains a mystery. She is a bigger mystery than the trinity.   wow I'm a mystery

Yes, you are a mystery. So far no one has been able to really know  who you are.  I just hope you are not a triune lady.  

bmzsp wrote: Angel wrote: bmzsp wrote: mochiah wrote: Angel are you jewish? Answering a question with a question. nice Nice question, mochiah. Angel is a mystery and I hope she remains a mystery. She is a bigger mystery than the trinity.   wow I'm a mystery Yes, you are a mystery. So far no one has been able to really know  who you are.

that's true  some people think I'm muslim, or christian, someone just said jewish which is a first for me  

I just hope you are not a triune lady.

nope but then again i do have a mind and a body and a soul/spirit

harrdnut Now to the most important Ayat: [9.30 wrote: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! ------------------------------------------------------------ -   Now, pl tell me how Allah is praying to Allah to destroy the Jews and the Christians if the Jews and the Christians are worshippers of the god of Islam?

 - pl tell me how Allah is praying to Allah....

" - pl tell me how Allah is praying to Allah...."

Allah is talking.

- pl tell me how Allah is praying to Allah....

Replace the word �Allah� with �God� and that shouldn�t be too difficult for a Christian to understand, though it might prove inordinately difficult to explain.  Consider, for example:

�Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.� (Matt 26:36)

Serv

Servetus wrote:  - pl tell me how Allah is praying to Allah.... Replace the word �Allah� with �God� and that shouldn�t be too difficult for a Christian to understand, though it might prove inordinately difficult to explain.  Consider, for example: �Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.� (Matt 26:36) Serv

Brother Serv,

Right on mark.  

Best Regards

BMZ

harrdnut wrote: What is the reason that Isa Son of Mariam was born thru a MIRACULOUS Virgin-birth but not prophet Mohammed?

Here is rule which the God of Abraham have used  to select his human servants (prophets) to deliver the message to their way ward folks .

I call it � Dump The Dad� or rather the sperm donor severance principle. When the surgeon sees a cancerous part he just cuts and tosses and or replaces with new part sometimes grown separately. Do you get the picture?

I am really surprised being born again should be evolutionary than devolutionary act and you should know all this cuz you are Born-Again Isa Al Massih follower.

Back to the birth details of the main deliverers of the ONE and only God's message.

Moses or Musa(as) He was  sent adrift in the river Nile by his family/father before Pharaoh's praetorians could discover and kill him in their campaign to eliminate the male children of Israelites.

And Moses gets to be raised by the Pharaoh's household and not his father's. Why cuz God wanted him to be raised in the master�s environment than to be brought up with a slaves mentality. He still complained to God of his weakness and asked for an assistant in Aaron and God provided him with other miracles to face off Pharaoh.

Jesus / Isa's (as) Mary(as)'s Dad wanted a son but God gave him a daughter. It was sign from God that the end of Prophesy in the Israelite line had been decided and one last shakeout God was to pull on the arrogant Jews even under the servitude of the Romans. And God didn�t find anybody fit to be Mary�s husband to bring messiah. He decided to eliminate the sexual process and create Jesus through parthenogenesis by sending the message to Mary through His archangel Gabriel. She will give birth to Messiah of the Jews who will have no traits of the contemporary Jews and no influence of another Jewish father in his up bringing and at the same time bamboozle the heck out of the smart-alecky Jews of her times. And the Messiah will be given the miracles to make his case to the people who will care to pay attention to message and not miss the last train.

If the man can do cloning why can�t Allah a better design change being the owner the patent?

harrdnut wrote: As a Born-Again Isa Al Massih follower, I think that the god of Islam should have made prophet Mohammed be born thru a MIRACULOUS birth also, and given him more SUPERNATURAL POWER than was given to prophet Mohammed !

The coming of Prophets God can be compared with a major surgery on a cancer ridden society that calls for a removal of the father�s role from the scene in order to make things easy for the man WHO WILL BE PROPHET.

You know that father is supposed to be a role model for son. In old pagan societies the father was a major hurdle to handle, remember Our Great patriarch prophet Abraham(as) had such tough time with his dad (Azar) when he started his mission that no body comes close. Remember him getting dumped into a pit of a huge bonfire as punishment for wrecking the idols, of course it turned into a little park for him to take a stroll (miracle)

And it is not part of the Islamic teaching to be rude to the parent.

Back to Muhammad (saw) birth, it is well known and documented historical fact in his biography that his birth happened against the greatest odds in the pagan society of Arabia which no less than a miracle in it�s own right.

His father Abdullah being the youngest and most handsome was also the marked to be sacrificed for the vow of his grand father for wishing having ten sons. His dad's life was spared in lieu of 100 camels� sacrifice which took a long and arduous steps to get to that point.

Then grandpa made arrangement to marry Abdullah with Amina a lady  from a great and honorable family of arabia . On the day of his wedding another woman who saw the blaze of prophetic light on Abdullah�s face invited him to marry her take that blessed seed.

She also offered him same gift 100 camels as was the expiation of his life. But he said he was with his father and can not act against his wishes.

He went on to marry Amina who conceived the apostle. Later on he saw the same woman and  asked her if she was still interested and she told him the light he had left him and she no longer had the need of him.

The mother of Muhammad(saw)used to say when she was pregnant � a voice said to her �you are pregnant with the Lord of the people and when he is born say I put him in the care of the One from the evil of every envious; then call him Muhammad(saw)�

As she was pregnant with him she saw a light come forth from her by which  she could see castles of  Syria!(miraculous prophesy that came true in Prophet's life time)

Shortly afterwards Abdullah the apostle�s father died without any apparent reason to die young while Aminah was still pregnant.

So the role the prophet�s father played was just a short lived  marriage and pass away without seeing his son much less influencing his  mission. 

So notice the a common thread the elimination of father's role in Musa(as), Issa(as)and Muhammad(saw)'s lives from the get go!!

harrdnut wrote: After all is not prophet Mohammed the SEAL of all prophets? (BTW what does the word SEAL mean in Islam)?

Don�t you know when a seal of approval is placed on a document you can�t make any alterations.

BTW You want to ask such big questions but you don't say  which country you live in ? I wonder !!

Finally it is no secret that who accomplished his mission successfully, so now you know the facts about birth circumstances.

Moses abandoned the  Israelites in the wilderness cuz of their slavish state.

Jesus was forces to take cover under great facade of crucification and disappear leaving say about a dozen followers (Last supper). After all the miraculous birth the God arranged for he left with no religious or political authority to name.

There is hardly any documented history about Jesus available and without Paul there would hardly be any Christianity much less  the born again stuff.

I wouldn't say anything about Muhammad(saw)

You can read Mike Hart's "The 100" and then say who gets the grade out of these three God's champions.

bmzsp wrote: Servetus wrote:  - pl tell me how Allah is praying to Allah.... Replace the word �Allah� with �God� and that shouldn�t be too difficult for a Christian to understand, though it might prove inordinately difficult to explain.  Consider, for example: �Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.� (Matt 26:36) Serv Brother Serv, Right on mark.   Best Regards BMZ

Erm...sorry to break up the celebrations, chaps, but......Allah is not a multi-personal God.  He is not a father, he does not, and cannot have a son, nor is he a son who can have a father.  He is furthermore incapable of becoming a man, and therefore incapable of praying to God.  So.... where does that leave us.....

There�s no need to apologize.  The celebrations were, in turn, merely an interruption of your and hardnut�s apparent joke.

Dizzy?

As I understand, according to Moses Maimonides, Jewish Talmudist and authoritative spokesman for Orthodox Judaism, the God of Islam and thus of Muhammad bears a greater resemblance to that of Moses than does that of Christianity.  He wrote:

�The Christians are idolaters ... The Muslims are not considered pagan in any sense.  No trace of paganism is left in their speech and in their hearts.  They confess the Unity of God in its strict and unconditional meaning � They may be deluded and in error in various matters, but concerning monotheism they are not at all mistaken.�

Serv

Ref:  Minkin, Jacob S., The Teachings of Maimonides, Jason Aronson, Inc., 1987, ISBN 0-87668-953-5, p. 319

Doo-bop,

Maybe we, you and I, have gotten off on the wrong foot, as they say, and are off to an unnecessarily bad start.  I will take responsibility for that and try to correct it.  Please allow me to introduce myself and to welcome you to the forum.  I am a non-Muslim but, by now, rather long-term guest here myself and am pleased to meet you.  I hope that your time here is productive.

Best regards,

Serv

Cheers, Doo-bop, let�s do that (get along fine).

Serv