Sunni/Shia
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: Matters/topics, related to various sects, are discussed where only Muslims who may or may not belong to a sect take part.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9170
Printed Date: 28 November 2024 at 3:13am
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Topic: Sunni/Shia
Posted By: Thunderbolt53
Subject: Sunni/Shia
Date Posted: 18 April 2007 at 9:46am
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The whole world that Islam is not the peace religion. When they see both brothers/sisters Sunni and Shia are fighting with each other even though they are muslims. Is that politic problems especially in Iraq? I have seen in Pakistan, both Sunni and Shia are troubles with each other. What problems? We don't really hate each other. May Allah protects us from evil, Ameen! |
Replies:
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 18 April 2007 at 12:28pm
It seems you are new in Canada, don't believe every thing you hear! It is not black n white. May be your new friends are feeding you some crap let them read the following scenario when you talk about the world of war and peace from a western religious perspective cuz the they will never consider an Islamic one. In reality their prophet is Machiavelli THE NAME Borgia is synonymous with Renaissance decadence, treachery and ruthless realpolitik. The tales of the handsome and bloodthirsty condottiere Cesare Borgia; his father, Pope Alexander VI, and his sister, the beautiful Lucrezia, who may (or may not) have also been his lover, have spawned an endless number of tales, poems, novels, operas and movies. Leaving aside the stuff of legend � that Borgia held a ritual orgy, known as the Banquet of the Chestnuts, in the Vatican palaces, cloaked himself in black to hide the ravages of syphilis on his face and murdered his sister's husband out of jealousy � there is enough in the historical record to make a great novel. He was one of four illegitimate children born to Roderic Borja, then a Spanish cardinal (the name became Borgia in Italy), and his Italian mistress, Vanozza dei Cattanei. Pope Alexander made Borgia a cardinal at the age of 18 � scandalous even by the nepotistic standards of the time � while placing his older son, Giovanni, at the head of the Vatican army. When Giovanni was assassinated, his brother took over his position, giving rise to the rumor that young Cesare Borgia had done Giovanni in. A daring military adventurer, Borgia worked to strengthen the papacy's hold on central and northern Italy and to carve out what he hoped would be a kingdom for himself that might rival Venice and Naples. Perhaps his most enduring claim on our attention is that his deeds and misdeeds attracted the notice of a young Florentine government servant named Niccolo Machiavelli, who had spent time as an emissary in Borgia's court and wrote back long reports about the young man commonly known as the Duke Valentino, one of many titles he held. One of the most famous of the surviving reports is known as the "Description of the Methods Adopted by the Duke Valentino when Murdering Vitellozzo Vitelli � " in which Machiavelli, with some admiration, writes of the shrewdness with which Borgia lured his principal rivals to the town of Sinigalia and had them strangled. Borgia is one of the main � and most vivid � characters in Machiavelli's masterpiece, "The Prince," which explains the art of statecraft. Much of Chapter 7 of "The Prince," for instance, is taken up with the career of Borgia as part of a rumination on how to hold power not with one's own troops but with those belonging to someone else. Borgia had taken the region of Romagna with French troops but, on assuming power, bought the services of mercenaries in order to establish greater autonomy. So as not to depend on these dangerous, unreliable men, he then began to develop his own troops. "I will never fear to cite Cesare Borgia and his actions," Machiavelli wrote, even though by this time Borgia had died in exile (500 years ago tomorrow), having lost power after his father's death. Machiavelli again cites the example of Borgia in taking up the question of "whether it is better to be loved than feared." Not unsurprisingly, Machiavelli writes that, if one had to choose, it is better to be feared than loved: "Cesare Borgia was considered cruel; nonetheless, that cruelty united Romagna and brought it peace and stability. On careful reflection, he was more merciful than the Florentines, who, in order to avoid being seen as cruel, allowed Pistoia to be destroyed." Machiavelli (like Borgia himself) has been accused, unfairly, of glorifying cruelty and treachery. This is not the case. Machiavelli wrote that it is proper for a prince to want the affection of his people � but not at the expense of disorder. "Too much mercy," he writes, "allows disorders to go on, from which spring killings or depredations." The great virtue of Machiavelli was in transforming the discussion of politics from the sphere of how we wish it were practiced to the realm of how it actually is practiced. Wishful thinking and good intentions, he understood, often lead to failure and tragedy. It is not possible to achieve any larger social good, Machiavelli wrote, without a clear-eyed consideration of political power. When Machiavelli began his career, the smell of burnt flesh still lingered in the air outside his office in the Piazza della Signoria, where the monk Girolamo Savonarola had been burned at the stake days earlier. Savonarola had tried to create a moral revolution in Florence and ousted the powerful Medici, but he had no means with which to defend the city. "Hence it is that all armed prophets have conquered, and the unarmed ones have been destroyed," Machiavelli wrote. Machiavelli's thinking was shaped by the central political tragedy of his time. In 1494, King Charles VIII of France invaded Italy, an example later followed by Spain and Austria � resulting in nearly 400 years of rule by outsiders. The rise of the nation-state, and of large standing armies, would prove too much for the rich, brilliant but politically divided Italian city-states. It was Machiavelli's dream that Italy � under a strong leader like Borgia or one of the Medici � might unite to be able to meet its principal threats on equal terms. The result of its failure to do so was nearly four centuries of foreign domination and an increasingly marginal place in the world. By Alexander Stille LAT ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 18 April 2007 at 12:58pm
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BTW who are they---If I gather you mean the Christians friends of yours Surah Yunus (Jonah) So we all are brother if we don't have divergent views of of God and his final prophet's views are, right? Shiis have the DIVERGENT view of the Islam, thats all and I know by experience they are closer to Christianity than Islam in their rituals. Just as their was no Christianity while Jesus was living and preaching, so there was no Shiism while Ali was living, think about it!!! These are all innovations and God doesn't allow in his book the religion should be based on some human disappearance or death event. It is pure deviation according to the sickness of their souls.
Yes, partly; but it is all about the unearned wealth which is going to kill all Iraqis and probably most people in the ME according to a hdith I am afraid! I heard Allah's Apostle
(peace be upon him) said: The Euphrates would soon uncover a mountain of gold
and when the people would hear of it they would flock towards it but the people
who would possess that (treasure) (would say): If we allow these persons to
take out of it they would take away the whole of it. So they would fight and ninety-nine out of
one hundred would be killed. AbuKamil in his narration said: I and AbuKa'b
stood under the shade of the battlement of Hassan.
You need to review your comments, as they aren't very clear! Are you looking for the explanation as why there are problems in Pakistan or what? Rephrase your question if you can! BTW how old are you? ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
, read
and think about the all the European Christian wars in which they exterminated
their own brethren by the millions, once you find out the secret practices of
the Shias your dream of brotherhood will shatter in a hurry. If you believe the
folllowing:Posted By: Abu Mujahid
Date Posted: 19 April 2007 at 8:13am
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salamu alaikum salman If you are interested the time bomb that waits many muslim countries that have shia minority please read Islamic history from Ibnu Alqama traitor time during Mogols invasion on Baghdad to Chrisitian Crusaders occupation on Iraq. I recommend you to read Khududul Aridhah for Muhibudeen Al-khatib to understand the foundation of this case. Many people choose political incorrect when Islam is under attack. Finally religious war is not confined between sunnah and Shiat. Ireland and rest of west carry out worst war between them but with no clear cut revealation of their differences.
Abu Mujahid ------------- Islam need true muslims |
Posted By: Abu Mujahid
Date Posted: 19 April 2007 at 9:23am
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"but with no clear cut revealation of their differences" I mean in their own debate otherwise we know Islam is clear cut in their differences. ------------- Islam need true muslims |
Posted By: Thunderbolt53
Date Posted: 19 April 2007 at 10:28am
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Assalam ul kym, I understand. The media in the West is very dangerous and against Islam. I am sick of it. Too many people get very wrong ideas about Islam and muslim people. I can't stand to live in USA because of racism and hateful. |
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 6:33pm
WAS You need to understand one fundamental point that the last great Empire happened to be a Muslim (the Ottomans) though nominally, which was undone ultimately by the European powers in the longest hot n cold war ever since 15th century. The Muslim areas then divvied up by the victors into the bunch of neo colonial interest areas/countries while millions of dazed so called Muslims opted for the Diaspora in the new Empire like the Jews of the Roman times whether it was Europe or America. Now they have been rudely awakened by the 911 event and they are in same predicament as were the European Jews before them. The difference is that a man with Jewish background Paul helped set up their new religion of Christianity; the Muslims with new awakening have ended up conflicted in religion among themselves and with both Judaism and Christianity. In the areas of race, culture, politics, education and or finance or what ever they can't see eye to eye and find an identity. It took the Jews 2000 years to have country of their own after controlling the global financial system, it will be a long time before the Muslims will be able to put the arms around their predicament! ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
Posted By: crasss
Date Posted: 21 April 2007 at 8:14pm
Your prediction of the future, like most predictions I read, does not take into account that the underlying system in the West is not stable. The disintegration of the family structure into disconnected individuals is unstoppable. The economic, political, and even military system are therefore based on the untenable assumption that things are stable or even sustainable. For example, people assume that the situation in schools in the West is the same as what they left behind when they graduated. Wrong assumption. The majority of children now come from broken families. The social norms amongst teenagers and young adults have shifted from "dating" to "hooking up", which simply means: casual sex with random strangers. And this new social norm, bad as it is already, cannot be assumed to be stable. Things are, of course, only going to get worse, and transmongrify into something only more bizarre. We can safely assume that people cannot live as disconnected individuals. We can also safely assume that a society based on casual sex or worse, cannot survive. The West is based on taking for granted something that simply does not exist any longer. The West will fall apart, quite soon in historical terms. The only question left is when this will happen? It is impossible that the West will last for another 50 years. I think that 25 years is rather optimistic. What will happen to the Muslims? To the extent that they did not buy into all of this, they will maintain the ability to form families, reproduce generation upon generation, and simply win by default. My advice is to simply to continue to hang on to the faith, and be patient. |