Percentage of men in jail?
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: General Discussion
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9369
Printed Date: 31 October 2024 at 7:32pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Percentage of men in jail?
Posted By: crasss
Subject: Percentage of men in jail?
Date Posted: 18 May 2007 at 6:43am
|
What percentage of the male population can any society afford to put in jail? http://www.casaplumeria.com/rapsheet/race.htm - 39 percent of black males in the USA were in jail, on probation or parole in 1995. The http://www.profam.org/pub/fia/fia_1810.htm - Moynihan Report predicted this in 1965. In 1999, 27% of all white families with children under the age of eighteen were headed by a single parent, compared to 26% of all black families in 1960. If we extrapolate these figures, they indicate that by the year 2045 approximately 40% of all males in the USA, regardless of race, would need to be put in prison. The report says that by 1980 the broken family/crime cycle started feeding itself unstoppably for the black population. The general population in the US would go into that cycle by the year 2020. A runaway, uncontrollable crime rate in the general population would start skyrocketing by 2015, fed by the new batch of criminal youth produced by today's single mothers. In my impression, American society will collapse between 2015 and 2045. Is there any reason why it wouldn't happen? |
Replies:
Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 18 May 2007 at 9:15am
|
Yes Crass, American society is close to collapse and much sooner than
2045. The convergence of many factors besides the corruption and decadence you often post about, America's financial system is close to imploding largely due to high energy costs and the fact that the government is powerless/uncapable of limiting consumption: that would be so un-American. The main elements of this convergence I refer to is: of world demand for the basic ingredient of our global economies, oil, outstripping world supply (i.e not enough to feed the growing 'Chindia' economies); climate upheaval causing crop failures, droughts, unseasonal flooding and disturbing world grain production (= famine) and the ongoing evil of resource wars. The collapse will be due to economic melt-down which will have an inevitable knock-on effect throughout the so-called developed world, and I believe it will happen within the next 2-5 years |
Posted By: Aminah07
Date Posted: 18 May 2007 at 2:08pm
|
WAS, My dh is a teacher at a correctional facility about an hour from where we live. He teaches Islam on Saturdays from ASR thru MAGARIB. He is surprised at how many native born muslims are in the prision system. He has an entire set of rules and regs. he has to follow when he's there and has two gaurds with him all of the time so he can't ever ask them why they are there or if they ask him to contact their families etc. he can't. every thing he takes into the classroom he is searched even if he had a candy wrapper in his pocket he would have to account for it when he was finished and ready to leave. when he arrives home and recalls his lectures and Q&A it always amazes me at how much they are giving these individuals and how much care is given to their safety and well being and ours now. I always wonder what would happen if all of these programs and protections were provided before hand in our communities if they would have so many prisoners. Yes they do have many African American men in his class but also muslims and others white hispanic etc. I think poverty and lack of caring about our neighbors in general is color blind from the descriptions of the individuals my dh has seen in his classroom. I see so much of it starting so young with the children in our neighborhood and in the school system. There should be a parent'101 class that should be taken and approved before all of these blessings are born so that the fact that every child is a blessing will never be forgotten and that they will grow up as we grow old. Aminah |
Posted By: crasss
Date Posted: 18 May 2007 at 7:00pm
The lower social classes are typified by weak kinship. It is also one of the central reasons for their low achievement. The upper classes maintain the upper hand by actively destroying kinship and family structures in the lower classes, with the complicity of the Christian religious authorities. Too much solidarity between lower class members must be prevented. Since kinship is the natural mechanism for instituting solidarity, it has continuously been attacked by the Christian authorities. That is why you have laws against cousin marriage in Christian society. They reinforce kinship, and must therefore be prevented in the lower classes. In the upper classes, such as amongst royals and nobility, this kind of marriages are actually encouraged. In order to further weaken the social structure amongst African Americans, the American government instituted policies to dismantle African American nuclear families with the complicity of Christian religious authorities. African Americans had no resistance against these policies, because they are Christian, and were manipulated into accepting these policies by the Christian religious authorities, who had come under control of the atheist state. The crime wave generated by African Americans is a logical result of these policies. Dismantling the nuclear family, is simply one bridge too far. |
Aminah07 wrote:Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 7:31pm
First how old are you? I hope don't have too many a generation gap here! I have been listening to the predictions of collapse about American society since the Vietnam war days, what I have seen is collapse of many others but American. I know America is bad but you know there is America which is good also there is something called what works? And you know America works! Right now America has bad leadership but you know the necessity is the mother of invention, when things will go bad enough the people will have to rise up to make a change! And I know they have no choice but act! You tell me who in the world is capable of being the leader!! The Ruskies are done; you think you will live under Chindians system; who can't even provide clean drinking water to their citizens or take care of their polluting transportation. Yes they are providing the dirt cheap labor to the American Corporations and cheap credit to war mongering POTUS and they are equally guilty of mayhem in Iraq. Have you looked at their streams and rivers? Or you think the Arabs or the Persians are fit to lead the world cuz they have oil, who can't even deliver a clarified pack of dates!!! You know what I mean? Look at your South Africa or the Zimbabwe are they any shining models any more? Have you analyzed the crime rates there vs the single mother data? I don't know what is happening in the European territory I think they are leaning back to the good old US, with the elections in Germany and France!! ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
Posted By: crasss
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 7:58pm
America in 1973 is not America 2007. In 1973, the fornication flower power had only started.
There is no need for a world "leader".
Agreed. The fornication fest is worse over there. The typical career for aspiring girls over there is prostitute.
The Chinese and Indians are no imperialists. It is not in their habits to start conquering everybody else.
They are mostly interested in their own clan and little else, which is ok, because what's the point in trying to dominate everybody else?
The western-style state structures over there, do not correspond with their extended family structures. Sub-saharan Africa consists of clans, loosely organized in tribes, with no loyalty for any type of national construct. There is no South African person. They are Xhosa, Zulu, et cetera. The state has to reflect that. If it doesn't, it ends up dominated by one clan, until it collapses. This is a disaster for the whites over there. The highly exogamous whites have no extended families, have very weak kinship structures, and necessarily rely on the state to be the "clan". Highly exogamous cultures cannot survive without a strong state. At the same time, states have a finite lifecycle, after which they inevitably disappear. The Mugabe clan is plundering the Zimbabwe state, and a similar process is bound to occur in South Africa. The Zimbabwean state will be brought back to its natural, much smaller size, in line with the true population structure in Zimbabwe. The ANC is running the show there, and it is obvious that the Xhosas dominate it. The South African state will be their clan fiefdom, until it collapses too; which is good, because endogamous populations need to shake off exogamous state structures. |
Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 22 May 2007 at 3:38am
|
Crass, you seriously have a problem, but for the moment at least it is
entertaining, you're obsession with female promiscuity, or as you prefer to call it; fornication. (Which as we know, is all women's fault.) You said; "The typical career for aspiring girls over there is prostitute." This is extremely demeaning, and shows not only your callous attitude towards women in general (let alone Russian women) but a complete ignorance of the causes of prostitution. If there were no men in your neighbourhood, what do you think, the girls would all emmigrate to Russia where they could start up a brothel? Prostitution arises as a direct response to poverty, marginalisation and vulnerability. Prostitution rings are invariably controlled by men, there's no lack of evidence of prostitution mafia and world wide 'white flesh trade' feeding the male appetite. Since time immemorial, female sexuality has been at best misunderstood and at worst, totally feared and therefore repressed and demonised. For this reason, prostitution will invariably be blamed on women, when it's primary causes, the reasons for its existence, are entirely male dominated. |
Posted By: crasss
Date Posted: 22 May 2007 at 7:26am
"Russia's Prostitution Trade" Author: Carrie McVicker However, the crisis is not going to end anytime soon with one out of every eight schoolgirls aspiring to be a hard-currency call girl when she grows up.(Goscilo 14) A survey compiled in 1990 showed that Soviet women ranked prostitution 8th in a list of what they felt to be the top 20 employment positions in the USSR. Around the same time 1/3 of high school girls admitted that they would exchange sex for hard currency. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/yeltsin/etc/facts.html - In a 1998 poll, Russian high school seniors ranked prostitute and hired assassin above scientist, engineer and researcher as attractive career choices. A 12-year-old girl, found on the street in Saratov by police, said she was in prostitution to raise enough money to buy a Barbie doll.
Ha ha ha ha. If your story were true, Somalia and Burma should be rife with prostitution, and they aren't, while South Central Los Angeles definitely is. Given the fact that everybody ancestors were poor, everybody would descend from criminals and prostitutes. Preposterous. Poverty DOES NOT explain crime and prostitution. Crime and prostitution are explained by (nuclear) family breakdown and moral breakdown (at the extended family/community level). Regarding http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/11/25/39935.html - the divorce rate, Russia is currently in second place. There are more divorces only in America.
Ha ha ha ha. Since time immorial, female sexuality has been very well understood and correctly feared and therefore highly regulated. It is the crucially important job of fathers and brothers to keep the daughter on the honourable path of chastity. That's what people traditionally call "family honour". That concept exists in all traditions across the world, and for good reasons. You can't modernize your way out of biology, can you?
To some extent, you are right. The absent fathers syndrome leads to fornicating and prostituting daughters, and when the proportion of girls in the community getting into that, rises above a certain treshold, they all start doing it, including the girls from good families. |
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 22 May 2007 at 7:38am
|
To some extent, you are right. Well it als ohas to do with people COMPLETELY immoral to force women to do this. and they do. It is not just the breakdown of family. There are many girls who are kidnapped and sold into slavery. The international trade is tremendous. And once you are in another country you are stuck. Really. Then there ar et he families who sell their children.. You make it seme like a black and white issue. And it is so complex. Yes a small percentage of people "choose" to do it. And then the vast majority are either sold or stolen. And once in, hard to get out especially in poor countries. As I say, let's shame the men. ------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |
Posted By: crasss
Date Posted: 22 May 2007 at 8:24am
How could the kidnapper get close to the girl and be alone with her without bystanders?
We're talking about girls who were "promised a job" in a foreign country. What father allows his daughter to take that kind of job, while he is supposed to keep an eye on her chastity?
Even that doesn't make sense. They could as well sell her to her future husband, if they are so short of money.
Ha ha ha ha. The vast majority chooses to do it. 1/3 of the schoolgirls in Russia does it on a freelance basis. Why would anybody need to kidnap the remainder, when there are millions of "volunteers"?
Let's blame a culture that turns the prostitutes into enviable heroes or poor victims, instead of facing the truth. In traditional societies, prostitutes have a very low social status, and are looked down upon, for very good reasons, if only, to make the career unattractive to any "aspiring" schoolgirls. |
Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 22 May 2007 at 12:32pm
|
"Let's blame a culture that turns the prostitutes into enviable heroes or
poor victims, instead of facing the truth. In traditional societies, prostitutes have a very low social status, and are looked down upon, for very good reasons, if only, to make the career unattractive to any "aspiring" schoolgirls." Okay, heaven forbid we should blame men. I really feel sorry for every woman you meet. You are a very delusional person indeed, and in for a few surprises. "Since time immorial, female sexuality has been very well understood and correctly feared and therefore highly regulated." You are the first person I've ever said this to on this forum, you are completely st**id and obviously have very little experience of women |
Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 22 May 2007 at 2:00pm
|
�If your story were true, Somalia and Burma should be rife with prostitution, and they aren't, while South Central Los Angeles definitely is So how come you can�t show any data for either of these two countries? Recent data shows the preferred form of physical contact for men towards women in Somalia is rape. No body asked the women. I recently read about a woman who escaped from her village in Somalia when the Janjaweed attacked. She now rises at six every morning to go searching for fire wood. She runs the risk of being seen, and consequently raped, every day. Where are the men who could protect her, or at least go fetch the fire wood? �Given the fact that everybody ancestors were poor, everybody would descend from criminals and prostitutes. Preposterous.� Once again your all or nothing reasoning leaves huge gaps in your understanding. Who is everybody that you assume they were all poor? �Poverty DOES NOT explain crime and prostitution.� I think first you would have to define poor. Are you talking about someone of poor intellect, like yourself, or someone who does not have enough money to buy the basic ingredient of their staple diet (such as corn or wheat). An example: people in the slums of Addis Abbaba often have to get by on 28 US cents a day. Obviously, the staple diet there is not MacDonalds, nevertheless, starvation is the overriding theme of each and every day. When most of the men- fathers, husbands, brothers, nephews are eaten up by typhoid, tuberculosis or AIDS related ailments, how would you expect them to shelter their women from their constant desire to fornicate (everybody knows, starvation is such a turn on.)? |
Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 22 May 2007 at 2:15pm
|
In the twenty-first century (1980-2001), women are prostitutes for many
different reasons and these roots of prostitution are similar to the reasons women became prostitutes in the Victorian age. Some women move into prostitution due to economic needs like poverty, emotional neediness and susceptibility to pressure from friends; few women listed only one main reason for entering into the profession (Scambler 7). Some prostitutes� explanation for becoming involved in prostitution include �having a history of sexual abuse, having grown up without love from the significant adults in their lives, being enticed by a male of female friend or by peer pressure from a group of friends, and needing money. Those who used drugs prior to their involvement in prostitution activities mention their addiction as a major reason for trading sex for money or drugs.� (Sterk 35) Why has prostitution been allowed to continue? The answer is simple: men. MYTH 1 - Prostitution is a natural expression of sexuality and a necessity for inadequate sexual relationships. This view supports a sexual myth that men have uncontrollable sexual urges that must be fulfilled. Herein lies a justification for prostitution. The juvenile prostitute is dehumanized by the implication that prostitutes serve a useful purpose as an object for sexual gratification. The reality, as described by our sample of former juvenile prostitutes, is that juvenile prostitutes are often appalled at and damaged by the acts demanded of them. Their participation is often a threat to their physical well-being. The act of prostitution is structured by the desires and fantasies of the customer, which are incongruent with the desires and sensitivities expressed by the young women in this sample. MYTH 3 - Juveniles freely choose prostitution. The following self-reported data on the impact of child abuse shows that victims of violence can lose their sense of psychological and physical well-being. Case histories suggest that a number of juveniles engaged in prostitution grew up in abusive and/or neglectful homes. A fragile self- esteem and limited resources lead some young girls to believe that they have no other choice but to enter the world of prostitution. MYTH 4 - Prostitution can be an exciting and glamorous life. Cultural mythology about prostitution is built on misinformation and fantasies of sexuality that are promulgated through movies, television, videotapes, and printed material including pornography. These may entice naive young women into prostitution with false promises of glamour and riches. In reality juvenile prostitutes suffer pain, humiliation, and degradation at the hands of their pimps and customers. They are susceptible to sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies |
Posted By: crasss
Date Posted: 22 May 2007 at 6:56pm
The purpose of the game is to ensure the survival and success of the extended family/community. We do not differentiate between men and women in that respect, because everybody is called to do his or her duty, whatever that takes. For the women of the extended family/community, that means first and foremost, that they shall maintain their chastity. Any internal/external threat to the survival or success of the extended family/community or failure to do one's duty shall be answered with severe retaliation, and all members, men and women, had better know it.
Men and women are the same in that respect, that they will not forget to do what they have to do, if it is obvious what the goal and the rules are, and you enforce that with an iron fist.
Everybody needs to be kept in their place, and women are no exception to that. I am definitely not naive or st.up.id about that. I am likely to be about other things. Point conceded. We must make sure that the highest social status is given to the members who have contributed the most to the success of the community. The sincere appreciation by other members is invariably the highest reward one could receive. It trumps money, material benefits, et cetera. Therefore, we must enforce the proper social ranking. For women, that means that the ones who have dedicated their lives to the community by never straying from the honourable path, are the highest in rank. We must enforce respect for the older, honourable women, if need be at gunpoint, if only, as a matter of equity, and crucially, in order to maintain the social ranking that will ensure attainment of the extended family/community goals. Fornicatresses and prostitutes shall be met with contempt and spit upon, at the very least, to clearly indicate the fact that their behaviour is a threat to the extended family/community, and relegate them to the very bottom of the social ladder, so that it is clear to everyone that such path is detestable. Men shall do their duty and fend off any external interference with the extended family/community, whatever the cost associated, and if need be with machine guns. As I said in an earlier thread, the bureaucratic state has a strong inclination and desire to stick their noses in the extended family/community with the purpose of weakening kinship ties, and lifting essential extended family/community rules. It is therefore the duty of the men, to unite with the other extended families/communities, and destroy the enemy, with disregard for one's own life. The almighty Allah expects every man to do his duty. |
Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 3:20am
|
"Fornicatresses and prostitutes shall be met with contempt and spit upon,
at the very least, to clearly indicate the fact that their behaviour is a threat to the extended family/community, and relegate them to the very bottom of the social ladder, so that it is clear to everyone that such path is detestable." Yes, and lets do nothing to make sure men don't seek out women desperately in need of money and promise them a 'good time'. Is a man who uses a prostitute not as detestable as the prostitute? "Men shall do their duty and fend off any external interference with the extended family/community, whatever the cost associated, and if need be with machine guns" You paint a picture of Afghan tribal culture, so well known for its record in life expectancy, high literacy, social harmony and achievement. I am not against cultures based on extended family and tribal ties. I actually live within that very set up. In the society I live in, the very rules which govern these ties and family communities have been extended into general society around us. However, we do not regard a woman with fear and suspicion because we recognise that a woman with self determination is far healthier psychologically than one kept beneath a burkah, hiding in the kitchen, perpetually pregnant and therefore anemic and exhausted, forbiden at gun point from addressing a man from outside the clan. I'm not sure where you think you're going to find this idyllic supposedly Islamic community, but I suggest you go to a few villages in Afghanistan and the tribal belt. There, you may find the toothless mother of twelve (three lost to miscarriage, two died in childbirth, two died of fever before the age of 5) illiterate and ignorant, who will be your ideal of 'honourable woman'. I'm sure she's dying to meet you. |
Posted By: crasss
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 4:10am
From the point of view of the extended family, what family members do, is important. As you probably understand, they will take a dim view on male family members who visit prostitutes somewhere far outside the extended family, but I doubt they would lose so much sleep over it.
The Jews also have a tribal culture, and they're not know for being illiterate. Social harmony is best served by not sticking one's nose into other people's family affairs. Record life expectancy, high literacy, social harmony and achievement were brought about by previous generations in the West, which managed to maintain their chastity and keep their families together, and is not the result of the current fornication fest, which is actually squandering the progress made by these previous generations. |
Posted By: Aminah07
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 4:24am
|
WAS, excuse me but i thought the topic was men in prision? it seems to have taken a turn if this is going to be a point of discussion please let me know I'll delete my response since it seems to not be appropiate for the topic at hand now. Aminah |
Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 2:12pm
|
I agree Aminah07 this is all totally off topic and should have been
stopped a while ago .... (Our moderators humming softly to themselves ....) |
Posted By: candid
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 9:42pm
| I agree with Crass most of the time. But I suggest he backs up his claims through theories which are widely accepted to be true. |
Posted By: crasss
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 11:41pm
I am currently reading up on another important part of the male population in jail: the hispanics. http://hispanicmuslims.com/ http://www.latinodawah.org/ Instead of going about in gangs, joining Islam is obviously a more potent anti-establishment, anti-American-exploitation, anti-family-destruction statement. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52668 - Chavez has made it clear his goal in life is to bring the U.S. to its knees. He has stood with Iran against the U.S. and, as WND reported Thursday, he is providing documents that could help terrorists infiltrate the U.S.-Mexico, according to a new congressional report on homeland security. That entire socialist/communist story doesn't impress anybody any longer. There is something much more interesting he could do. Why doesn't he say the Shahada in public, if he really want to show his middle finger to Washington? Islam is actually not inherently or that much anti-western. It is anti-western people who become Muslim. |
Posted By: USA1
Date Posted: 24 May 2007 at 7:52am
|
The problem with any report that predicts an end is that it is based on no change. We all know that change happens every day and affects the future so, predicting this is futile. While America has it's issues with crime and punishment, it is our growing liberal society that makes this so. Today, you cannot punish someone for fear of hurting someone elses feelings. So, as we move into this "feel good" society, criminals will not be detered by punishment. Some maybe but, 2nd and 3rd generation criminals need a harder punishment. Most prisoners today have multiple priors. That means they were arrested multiple times before and put back on the street over and over until they reach a violent enough stage to warrent a longer prison tme. This also evident in many aspects of our justice system. For example, someone who smokes pot may get a harder sentence than the person who robbed a qick mart. There is no deterent. Religion only enhances leaner punishments. To be a religious based and run country, one would have to find a deterant through education that would take 2 or 3 generations to correct. It makes me sad. ------------- They just don't get it! |
Posted By: crasss
Date Posted: 24 May 2007 at 8:44am
Let's assume that the solution that would be politically the least unpalatable in America, is (re-)instituting Christianity as state religion somehow, even though it is explicitly forbidden by the American constitution. As I said in a previous post, Christianity is still better than atheism, but it obviously doesn't work without being state religion. I am not particularly fond of the idea that people proclaim everywhere that God would have family members (I actually thorougly dislike that idea), but ok, it is still superior to a crime -and fornication fest. It's funny how the current destructive stage in the US, was built in from the start, in the Bill of Rights. You can't just abandon a religion and refuse to "respect an establishment of religion", in order to weaken a religion. You have to replace it by another religion, and preferably not by some "Cult of the Supreme Being" a la Robespierre in France, because that's b*llsh*t too.
It is the collapse of the nuclear family that makes this so, which in turn was just an eventuality waiting to happen, as a result of the one secularisation wave succeeding the other. Since the remainder gets dumped, why not dump everything, and start fornicating like animals? That was really inevitable ...
Being tough on crime has zero fundamental effect. It just combats the symptoms more thoroughly. Crime cannot be addressed without addressing the problem of family breakdown, which in turn cannot be addressed without (religious) rules that prevent it. You can find them literally in the scriptures.
It's a waste of time. You can't do much about the current population of criminals. Some can be reformed, but most won't be. The only thing that can be done, is to prevent future generations of criminals from reaching the "crime market". But even that is very hard. You could institute a state religion, preferably one without human gods and just One God, but how can you unbreak the enormous numbers of currently broken families? How can you forcibly make people compatible, in terms of expectations and behaviour, who are currently incompatible, since that's why they broke up in the first place? Even by organizing a tremendous U-turn at the highest political level, this would be extremely hard to do, if not, impossible. The level of widespread degeneration is such, that I doubt it can still be fixed.
Forget it. It won't happen. Degeneration follows its own unmanageable and unescapable logic. Just watch.
Although the US in its current incarnation is doomed, you are not. You can personally still join a community that maintains religious values at the community level and firmly entrench yourself there, and try to keep the kids away from mainstream America, by collectively and continuously demonizing it to the kids  .For Christian religion, only something like the Amish would work. Therefore, I think a Christian solution is unrealistic. There would be too many atheist-style people coming over, and then the fornication fest starts all over again. So, that's really pointless. Islam automatically becomes Amish-community-style, when there's a sufficient number of believers in the same neighbourhood. I doubt anybody would fake it. Especially, given the fact that the women would give it away right away, by not wearing a headscarf and not dressing hijab. I can't imagine any fakers going as far as doing that. If the women voluntarily and consistently dress hijab in public, the whole family quite likely means it. So, you can personally escape from the onslaught of depravity by digging in, in the right place, amongst the right people, and waiting for better times, that are definitely coming, inshallah, we just don't know when, as it is so obvious that the atheist fornication fest and the resulting crime celebration fest are bound to defeat themselves. |