Is Islam peaceful?
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URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9767
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Topic: Is Islam peaceful?
Posted By: VicS
Subject: Is Islam peaceful?
Date Posted: 11 July 2007 at 10:11am
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Why don't you allow this thread to continue? It is closed. It is a great way to allow some dialog on the subject, and to learn to understand each other. We need better understanding in this world and acceptance of each other instead of just blaming, getting fed up and closing the thread. This is just a suggestion in the interest of better understanding and peace. PLEASE. Since Muslims created the disaster during 9/11/01 in New York, what would have been a better response than going into Afghanistan? I am open on this and would appreciate Muslim opinions. ------------- Vic |
Replies:
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 11 July 2007 at 10:58am
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Is Islam peaceful? Yes, it is peaceful. It is the message of peace and submisson to Allah. And this part was already described in the the thread you are referring to by many posters including myself. http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9227&PN=1&TPN=3 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9227& ;PN=1&TPN=3 Yet, you started a new thread here on the same matter. Who did Sept 11, 01? Terrorists did. Don't use the term "Muslim terrorists?" And terrrorists are everywhere regardless of their claim to belong to any faith. But, you can't bomb the entire world for that. What if there is a terrorist in your neighbourhood? Would you bomb that entire area? Of course not. Furthermore, Please see the following guidelines: Posting posts at random, as you did, without replying questions addressed to you constitutes violation of guidelines. Please see the following guidelines in this respect: 12. Spamming of any kind is not allowed. Any response to spammers will be deleted along with the spam. This includes multiple copies (2 or more) of one message in one and/or many forums. (If this behavior is spotted several times, by the same User we may remove ALL the copies of that message, including all the responses below them.) Spamming of questions or overly large posts will also not be allowed. 13. Posting several messages at random and not responding to the generated questions or dialogue following the original posts may also be considered as spamming. Answer questions posed to you and do not avoid it by changing the topic, as long as that question does not break any of the Guidelines. If you do not know the answer, simply acknowledge this, then move forward. http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589&PN=1 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589& ; ; ;PN=1 ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: VicS
Date Posted: 11 July 2007 at 11:37am
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Peacemaker, you closed the old thread and I had a question about your answer. Why are you so hostile with me? You really do not sound like a peacemaker. The Q verse applied to Children of Israel. Am I right? Are Children of Israel defined in the Qur'an? Could you tell me where please? Also what is "mischief on earth" that justifies killing of another person? Is that defined in the Qur'an or Sunna somewhere? I replied to questions addressed to me. I always reply. If you can show me which one I did not reply to, I apologize and will do it immediately. It is my questions that were not answered yet on the thread that you closed. I also did not place random questions to spam. That is not true. If you think I did, you tell me which ones you considered random and spam. You are not putting yourself and Islam into a light it should be with such accusations. If you do not want to answer someone's questions, just say so. The people who flew air planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon were yelling Allah Akhbar in the cockpit recordings which I personally heard coming off the cockpit recorder, and not in the TV news, they had passports that identified them as Muslim. Most from Saudi Arabia as I recall. They were then identified having been trained in Al Qaida camps in Afghanistan. So please tell me, what should the US response have been? We think that they were Islamic terrorists. Do you think that the US forged all this evidence? What should we have done that would have been acceptable to you? In other words, what should we do if this kind of thing is done by Muslim Terrorists again? I would like to ask you not to be hostile to me in your response. Just please have some understanding in your heart, unless you believe that I am a piece of trash because I am not a Muslim. So far you treated me like trash. We need to make peace among us. DO YOU AGREE? I would like to know what you think about how it should be done? What steps by each side. What should we do on the US side non-Muslims, and what should you do on your side so that we can have peace and mutual respect without any hostile feelings. Is that possible? And friendly tone please; this is serious. Best regards, Vic ------------- Vic |
Posted By: hat2010
Date Posted: 11 July 2007 at 1:34pm
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Peace,
Peacemaker did answer your question by not linking the entire religion of Islam to the acts of 9/11. We, as Muslims, can not be wholly represented by the actions of other Muslims, and viz., a minority like those who belong to the group(s) who committed those actions. Re: What to do in the face of the terrorist acts against the US? More concisely than I could put it, here is Noam Chomsky: "To combat terrorism we must start by reducing the level of terror, rather than by escalating it. When the IRA detonates bombs in London, London does not destroy Boston, the source of most of the finance, nor does it wipe out West Belfast. The UK hunts the perpetrators, brings them to trial and looks for the reasons for the violence." |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 11 July 2007 at 2:16pm
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Salaam, Brother Peaemaker what does this mean in the following: But, you can't bomb the entire world for that. What if there is a terrorist in your neighbourhood? Would you bomb that entire area? From what I read the poster did not refer to any bombing of other individuals and/countries so why the references to bombing? I'm curious. |
Posted By: VicS
Date Posted: 11 July 2007 at 5:20pm
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Salam aleikum Jamal. Jamal, thank you very much for your polite answer. You are right. We should not link the actions of a few Muslims or even their group to all Muslims. I did not mean to do that. In my experience, many times in the Middle East over 40 years, I met many Muslims who I consider friends and I encountered a slightly negative reaction only once during those years. Brother Peacemaker quoted a very good verse for peacefulness of Islam, but I would like to have Qur'an references for them if possible. One reference was for Children of Israel, another was for "mischief on earth" that justifies killing of another person (this was an exception). Also how would Muslims decide about death authorized by such exception today? Would the case go in front of a council in Sharia law or would the individual decide based on this Qur'an verse? If I may I would also like to know very clearly who is a believer and who is an unbeliever. Does the Qur'an define these terms? Fair comment with Chomsky. Could one of you be more specific? We need to make peace among us. DO YOU AGREE? I would like to know what you think about how it should be done? What steps by each side. What should we do on the US side non-Muslims, and what should you do on your side so that we can have peace and mutual respect without any hostile feelings. Is that possible? And friendly tone please; this is serious. Peacemaker, I am sorry about my reaction to you. I created hostile feelings in you and I am sorry that I did. Best regards and salam, Vic ------------- Vic |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:46pm
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Concerning the verse in Surah Al-Maidah, it is important to note the context in which it was revealed. Ibn Kathir wrote the following concerning the verse: "Allah says, because the son of Adam (Cain) killed his brother (Abel) in transgression and aggression, (We ordained for the Children of Israel...) meaning, We legislated for them and informed them, (that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.) The Ayah states, whoever kills a soul without justification -- such as in retaliation for murder or for causing mischief on earth -- will be as if he has killed all mankind, because there is no difference between one life and another. (and if anyone saved a life...) by preventing its blood from being shed and believing in its sanctity, then all people will have been saved from him, so, (it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.) Al-A`mash and others said that Abu Salih said that Abu Hurayrah said, "I entered on `Uthman when he was under siege in his house and said, `I came to give you my support. Now, it is good to fight (defending you) O Leader of the Faithful!' He said, `O Abu Hurayrah! Does it please you that you kill all people, including me' I said, `No.' He said, `If you kill one man, it is as if you killed all people. Therefore, go back with my permission for you to leave. May you receive your reward and be saved from burden.' So I went back and did not fight.''' `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said, "It is as Allah has stated, (if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.) Saving life in this case occurs by not killing a soul that Allah has forbidden. So this is the meaning of saving the life of all mankind, for whoever forbids killing a soul without justification, the lives of all people will be saved from him.'' The verse is linked to the story of Cain and Abel, and how Cain murdered his brother. The idea is that, as Ibn Kathir stated, "there is no difference between one life and another." Concerning what "mischief" is defined as, once again, Ibn Kathir's commentary offers some clues: "(The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land.) `Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil. Ibn Jarir recorded that `Ikrimah and Al-Hasan Al-Basri said that the Ayat, The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger) until, (Allah is Of-Forgiving, Most Merciful,) "Were revealed about the idolators. Therefore, the Ayah decrees that, whoever among them repents before you apprehend them, then you have no right to punish them. This Ayah does not save a Muslim from punishment if he kills, causes mischief in the land or wages war against Allah and His Messenger and then joins rank with the disbelievers, before the Muslims are able to catch him. He will still be liable for punishment for the crimes he committed.'' Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i recorded that `Ikrimah said that Ibn `Abbas said that the Ayah, (The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land...) "Was revealed concerning the idolators, those among them who repent before being apprehended, they will still be liable for punishment for the crimes they committed.'' The correct opinion is that this Ayah is general in meaning and includes the idolators and all others who commit the types of crimes the Ayah mentioned." As an example of what "mischief" can mean, the story of 8 members of the 'Ukl tribe is mentioned. These 8 people visited the Prophet and became sick because of the weather. The Prophet advised them to drink some milk mixed with camel urine, and they got better. However, after they did get better, they killed the shepherd and stole his camels. After they were captured, they were executed for their crime, as the verse indicated. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: VicS
Date Posted: 11 July 2007 at 8:26pm
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Salam Islamispeace. Thank you very much for taking the time and answering me. I needed this kind of answer for a Web site I have that I did in order to explain the good side of Islam to Westerners, since there is a lot of bad and misleading info out there. Although I am not very qualified for this, I did spend a lot of time to learn. I want you to understand that I have to provide references to such answers in the Qur'an preferably or Surah. I have a lot of visitors (>10K/month) and they like my approach so we enjoy credibility with this site. I am somewhat at home with the Qur'an, but not the Surah. Can I use http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ as a source (please look), and can you provide me with the references. I would like to use this source if possible because the audience would be more accepting of a US source. This is just a marketing/selling thing to meet my audience's preferences, but I do not want to compromise the truth in any way. I would appreciate your or anyone's help very much. I also have to stick to very simple English and not use the Arabic words that you all know. I would be happy to pass by you how I explain your explanation, for your concurrence once I have the Surah (?) references. Anyone who wants to look at the Web site to critique it, is welcome to it, just ask if there is any interest. I did it because I liked being among Muslims, I think they liked me, they helped me many times, and i do not want anything unfair assumed out there. Also it seems that my language and style work better than the many introductions to Islam that are out there. I am not trying to convert. I just want readers to accept that there are very nice people among Muslims, in my experience of 40 years, virtually all. And especially in our country, US being a mixture of all, they make great citizens, with excellent work ethic, which I know for a fact from GM and other sources. Best wishes, thank you again, Vic ------------- Vic |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 12 July 2007 at 6:36pm
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The USC website is very good and informative. As far as references are concerned, you can quote a surah or ahadith, provide the necessary information (like surah and verse number, hadith number and book) and then provide a link. For instance, if you quote the verse about the Children of Israel and how God forbid them to kill unjustly, all you need is the Surah name (Al-Maida or "The Table") and the verse number (32). If you quote a hadith, the best thing to do is mention which compilation (Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud etc.), volume number, book number and hadith number. Of course, provide a link. For example, the hadith concerning the people from the 'Ukl tribe is mentioned in the Bukhari compilation: Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234: Narrated Abu Qilaba: Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle ." The link is: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.505 - http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhar i/059.sbt.html#005.059.505I hope this helps. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 13 July 2007 at 4:28am
Assalamu Alaikum! Thanks for asking your question, brother. This thread was created in relation to the locked thread; therefore, you may understand better if you go through locked thread including my last post in that thread: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9227&PN=1&TPN=3 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9227& ;PN=1&TPN=3 Then see the statement in the first post of this thread: "Since Muslims created the disaster during 9/11/01 in New York, what would have been a better response than going into Afghanistan? I am open on this and would appreciate Muslim opinions."Now let us see what I wrote in part in reply to that: "Who did Sept 11, 01? Terrorists did. Don't use the term "Muslim terrorists?" And terrorists are everywhere regardless of their claim to belong to any faith. But, you can't bomb the entire world for that. What if there is a terrorist in your neighborhood? Would you bomb that entire area? Of course not. " The crux of the whole matter was to express that just because there is a terrorist in a country doesn�t justify that a war should be waged against that nation. What would you do ( what would anyone do�inserted anyone for the sake of clarity ) if there is a terrorist in your ( or anyone�s ) neighborhood? You ( or one ) wouldn�t bomb that entire neighborhood to get rid of a terrorist. Yes, we should bring criminals/terrorists of all kinds to justice, but we cannot punish those who are innocent. War in Afghanistan and Iraq, for example, is not working. It is killing more and more people�Americans, Britons, Afghanis and Iraqis etc. Iraq and Afghanistan have been named as "top failed states." Moreover, it is making the world a more dangerous place to live in. Therefore, the policy should be scrutinized as it is not working. Why should entire country or the countrymen of a nation, who have nothing to do with actions of a terrorist, be punished for the actions of the perpetrators of the crime? That is the point I was trying to address in a very limited time frame. I hope this helps, brother. Peace ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Israfil wrote:
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 13 July 2007 at 4:30am
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Hi Vics, I accept your apology. It appears to me that I did not and could not explain to you the matter at length due to shortage of time. Any inconvenience in this regard is regretted. You may like to see my previous post in this thread addressed to brother Israfil for more clarification. May Allah guide us all. Peace
------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 13 July 2007 at 10:12am
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Asslamu Alaikum, Jazak Allah Khair, brother. May Allah guide us all. Peace ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 13 July 2007 at 10:15am
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Assalamu Alaikum, The following is addressed to everyone including myself: In order to avoid derailing this thread any further, as it comments/complaints section�let us discuss only relevant issues here. Therefore, matters of political nature should be discussed in World Politics or Current Events. Enquiry of Islam by non-Muslims should be discussed in "Islam for non-Muslims" section, please avoid discussing political issues there; political turmoil and religious issues should be kept apart�failing to do so may negatively affect the spirit of discussion and communication. Let us also see the guidelines so that we may comply: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589&PN=1 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589& ;PN=1 May Allah guide us all. Peace ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 14 July 2007 at 9:01am
| Brother Peacemaker thank you for the information you definitely clarified some things. |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 15 July 2007 at 10:20am
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Assalamu Alaikum, You are welcome, brother. May Allah guide us all. Peace ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: VicS
Date Posted: 19 August 2007 at 7:23am
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Peace be with you and us all. Thank you very much for the above explanations. I have questions about 14 verses in the Qur'an, and their proper interpretation. I will ask about them one by one. Could someone explain to be the proper interpretation of Q 5.51? Please give qur'anic references if possible, or please give me the proper Sunnah references. I would also like to know if all Muslims interpret it that way or are there differences in the interpretation? Thank you very much for your help. Best wishes, Vic S. ------------- Vic |
Posted By: VicS
Date Posted: 19 August 2007 at 7:26am
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My apologies for the typo. The question is: Could someone explain to me the proper interpretation of Q 5.51? ------------- Vic |
Posted By: VicS
Date Posted: 19 August 2007 at 9:14am
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Peacemaker, you treated me like crap, you did not answer my question, but I am glad that you accept my apology. Well, that has not been my experience with Muslims fortunately, and I did not insult you. I think we all would like to see mutual respect if it is possible, unless Muslims do indeed feel that they are superior to everyone else in front of God. Is that true by the way? Anyone? Best wishes for your vacation, VicS ------------- Vic |
Posted By: Jammy
Date Posted: 19 August 2007 at 5:10pm
------------- Nuff LOve, Salamz |
Posted By: Jammy
Date Posted: 19 August 2007 at 5:17pm
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Islam is a beautiful Religion! Some Muslims give Islam a bad name through their actions. IF PEOPLE WANT TO STUDY ISLAM PLEASE DON'T STUDY THE MUSLIMS! STUDY ISLAM! ------------- Nuff LOve, Salamz |
Posted By: VicS
Date Posted: 19 August 2007 at 6:37pm
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Jammy. peace be with you. And I appreciate the point you are making. However, most non-Muslims do not know anywhere near what I know about Islam and I don't know much. The problem with that is that most, not all the terrorist attacks that happen, are done in the name of Allah, and there is no way for Muslims to get away from this scourge on humanity, and see Islam in a peaceful way, unless some Islamic leaders stand up and say that: "unfortunately all Muslims are not peaceful, about 1-10% (whatever the percentage is), most of whom are practicing Wahabbi-Qutbic sect of Sunnis and some Shia sects like etc., etc (give specific answers, name the guilty). Then there are those who appear moderate, but financially support these criminals, and therefore they are the same. But 80-98% of Muslims practice a peaceful Islam, want to live in peace and harmony with Muslims as well as non-Muslims, and have a good peaceful life here on earth, not just in Paradise. And we, the peaceful Muslims and our countries are planning to do XYZ to have these violent terrorists arrested and tried in a court of law, and if guilty imprisoned." Unfortunately the Imams I spoke to insist (in the US) that Islam is peaceful, and Muslims are all peaceful. That position loses credibility very fast and harms all Muslims, which is very unfair. Unless the peaceful and moderate Muslims keep hammering a message like that worldwide and do something about the terrorists who give Islam a bad name, non-Muslims will think that all Islamic people are terrorists, and they all condone these acts. That is the problem from a non-Muslim perspective unfortunately. And you cannot blame the people, because newspapers unfortunately sell better, when they have bad news to deliver. For non-Muslims, you cannot separate Muslims from Islam. And these Muslim or Islamic terrorists (referring to the smaller violent segment), created a bad name for Islam everywhere. I, as a non-Muslim who had many Muslim friends over 40 years, created a Web site to explain that all Muslims are not like the news indicates. But moderate Islam must do a lot more about these violent ones, or the people will believe that all Muslims are this way. Many of us agree with you, but we must see more action. Why? Because there are too many people in this world who say nice things, but when you watch their actions, the actions are different from their sayings. Always watch what someone does. Listen to the actions. That tells the truth. I need some help with the proper interpretation of some Qur'an verses. About 14, and would like to start with 5.51, hopefully with other Qur'anic verses that reverse it/change it. Salaam Jammy. Thanks very much for your post. VicS ------------- Vic |