|
Did he betray me? |
Post Reply 
|
Page <1 34567 12> |
| Author | |
Israfil 
Senior Member 
Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Posted: 13 June 2008 at 5:49pm |
|
Chrysallis you brought up a good point. Not to derail the topic at hand but sometimes a woman (and man) are compelled to work based off of societal circumstances.
I sometimes constantly remind people that society isn't how it was in 500 A.D. Even if you don't live in luxury sometimes its hard getting byb, like I said all of which are dependent upon one's arrangement. Edited by Israfil - 13 June 2008 at 5:49pm |
|
 |
|
|
Nausheen
Moderator Group
Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 June 2008 at 8:41am |
|
Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir Rajeem,
Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim,
Chrysalis, perhaps you would care to add police force in your list of duties where women are few
 Since the string is being side tracked why not I just add a few points to that flow ...
In response to " there is nothing wrong with women working if they want to " Sisters, please consider ... our society has a divine set up. That was for the man to be the breadwinner, and woman the homemaker. When the roles are crossed, exchanged or shared there is something wrong with that - we like it or not. When women enter the workforce with men, they are forced to acquire qualities which are not contingent to her feminine nature. This affects the set-up of a family, which is at the unit level of our society. A woman who is (highly) qualified and is earning, holds a same or similar position as her husband in work force, is meant to be very independent in her thinking - this surely has an impact on married life, which in turn has an impact on children that is not always healthy.
I am not saying every marriage where both husband and wife are working is a trouble marriage, but I am saying today the value and fulfilment one should receive in marriage is deteriorating, and this is because of the exchange or mixing of roles of man and woman in our society.
Brothers, please, please, if you are able to, do not encourage or expect your wives to go out and "earn" for the family. There is nothing wrong in having a business, or a source of income for a woman, which is solely hers' but her primary role is that of "your follower" in the institution of marriage, where you are the head and the " leader of your flock". A wife is complementary to her husband, she is not his "equal". Any set-up that makes her compromise her feminity, will have an affect on the tranquility of marriage. So be the breadwinner, and make your flock give you the honor and respect you must receive for doing so. This is important for your happiness, and that of your wives and children. If you think you cannot maintain a standard of living you want to on a single income, then have trust in Allah, and do with less, till He opens ways of provision for you, but it is not a very good idea to meet a certain standards or living on a shared income. It will not be a source of happiness and tranquility in married life. Trust me, there are 101 problems when both are working, but life is too short, and in such a busy schedule - stressfull set-up you wont get the time to smell the roses.
|
|
|
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
|
|
|
|
abuayisha
Senior Member
Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 June 2008 at 9:29am |
There is much truth to this statement as a general rule, however I don't believe the issue is so black and white. How many of us are thrilled and overjoyed when able to find a female ob/gyn and not suffer the indignity of males fulling this role? The islamic society as well as families are in need of women for not just homemaker roles. Likewise, families would also benefit from more men taking an active role in homemaking chores. And Allah Knows Best.
|
|
|
|
|
Hayfa
Senior Member
Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 June 2008 at 1:25pm |
|
It is also a point that I have seen is that the men work many, many hours to support their families, sa living expenses are high, and the spouses don't see each othe much. With the changes in technology, people are not working short hours by any means. They often do not have time to spend with wives or children for that matter.
Take for instance you live in US, in some areas you have to wrk alot not just to afford the basics, but let's say you wish your child to attend Islamic school rather than public school? Or you have parents or family elsewhere to support.
I agree with Abuatisha, we do need women to serve women. We need women teacher, health care providers etc. Plus once the kids are in school, parent's time is different. There is nothing that says they cannot each or help people in other ways.
One thing is that many men ARE working hard tp support families. And people still need to learn and have services provided. And some women have the means, time and talent. For instance, I am teaching at the masjid summer camp. A good program for the kids for the summer.
I also think that women in the west who are at hope are quite isolated. Its hard to get together, and have friends as people are more spread out. Not like all the people are around you are Muslim. And isolation is not healthy. many women suffer from depression. And we women tend to "think" too much so its good to be active and involved
Un fortunately there are men who expect the women to earn money and give it to them. Its fine if for srivival to happen. But men should not expect or push their wives to do so.
Islam is about living in balance.
|
|
|
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
|
|
|
|
|
Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 June 2008 at 7:54pm |
|
"I am not saying every marriage where both husband and wife are working is a trouble marriage, but I am saying today the value and fulfilment one should receive in marriage is deteriorating, and this is because of the exchange or mixing of roles of man and woman in our society."
I'm inclined to disagree-atleast the issue of semantics. I wouldn't go to the extent as to say marriages are deterorating I would say marriages are changing but this depends on the geographical location. The breadwinner time has passed and very few families are practicing it. Muslim professionals both men and women are in the workforce doing their duties and still able to have a viable family. I don't think a woman going into the field where it is heavily populated by men must attain male characteristics. This is false. If it is true I'd like you to specify in which occupation (if not all) are women to act like this.
As you all know because of my background and where I live a woman at least until she is about to give birth to my child has to work until our lives are stable enough where one of us can stay home. As one male speaking for myself, I have high academic standards which will get me in areas where I'll be able to make a very, gvery, very good living. But if there are Muslim women still stuck on the "I'm gonna stay home you take care of me bit" then obviously I won't choose them. Islam is about balance but its also about being realistic. We all live in different parts of the world. Our environments at least economically may differ and you can't suggest someone to pack their things up and move to a smaller town especially when their lives have already been established-it's not that easy.
Me personally I think a woman has more economical freedom in the workforce than at home. She doesn't have the burden of living under a man who supports her with essentials when she can provide her own essentials. all marriages don't always last so its important for a woman to at least be financially stable herself if she isn't already this doesn't even take into account the educational aspect of it. I'm sorry this is one area within Islam God and I "butt heads" but God knows my reasons and I hope sincerely he doesn't fault me for thinking the way I do. It isn't about disobedience, it's about survival.
Edited by Israfil - 14 June 2008 at 7:55pm |
|
|
|
|
abuayisha
Senior Member
Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 June 2008 at 10:44pm |
La hawla wala quwwatta illa billah - 'No just estimate have they made of Allah such as due to him....(39.67)� |
|
|
|
|
Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 June 2008 at 11:22pm |
|
Is it bad I say I butt heads with God? I'm sorry its a figure of speech. But then again why am I sorry for what I feel? |
|
|
|
|
Nausheen
Moderator Group
Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 June 2008 at 7:42pm |
|
Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir Rajeem,
Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim
I am of the view that a woman in marriage is required to have a certian temperament towards her husband, besides her roles, duties and responsibilities. These are very subtle, nevertheless weigh on the health of marriage. And these temperaments are a part of her feminity.
Example: 1. obedience to husband (in all matters except when he asks her to disobey Allah).
In our times one may argue it is not possible or correct ideally speaking, nevertheless a husbands expects to be obeyed, either due to his being the man or being the head of the family.
2. Puting his needs before others (herself, home and children) - manytimes in busy households this is undermined, because she is equally busy, working and tired. Women by nature have the tendency to care and comfort. It is missing in our homes and social set-ups where women are working.
3. to not assert herself as equal in many qualities - working women have the ability ot excel, and not every couple is able to handle this with grace - rather not every working woman thinks she may be stepping over her husband's sensitiviteis if she asserts herself in a certain ways.
I am not debating that a woman is going to lose ALL her feminity if she goes out to earn a living - but it affects her, when she is away from home for same number of hours as her husband, and is facing similar challenges of the world as himself she is not the same woman as one who spends her time in more feminine chores.
AbuAisha, I agree with you women are needed in certain areas, and we cannot debate absolutes. But again am sure when you say we need women in the area of obgyn, you dont mean every woman shld study this feild. This only means we need to make exceptions in certian areas - this does not mean as a rule all women should go out and work.
Hayfa, I agree we need to keep ourselves busy, but we do not need to keep ourselves "equally" busy. There is a big difference between the two. Joining the workforce like a man, being 50% provider of family's financial needs, are different from pursuing a talent or doing community service . When we choose to go out and work "like" men the balance is jeopardised.
Israfil, when I said marriages are deteriorating, what I meant was look at the future of most marriages in our times as compared to old. In US 50% of first marriage ends in divorce, the rate being higher for second and even higher for third marriages - this is from qualified discussions about the reasons for faliure of marriages.
Being financially independent somehow conveys the meaning that man and woman in a marriage are not one unit, they are seperate individuals. This is how people think today, and this is how they behave, treat each other. Theoritically being financially independent sounds great, but practically the great thing is when the husband provides and the family honors him for doing so -
Thus it is not a kind of manual labor which will make a woman muscular - rather it is the manner of thinking, her attitude, her temperament which is affected when she is earning, and it makes a big difference in how she handles her marriage affairs.
I may sound like a woman of 60s, but this I say after reading and researching a great deal on this subject. If you disagree, you have all the right to do so.
Still, I will say in our times the socials norms are wrong. We have lost quality life. We have lost the meaning of love and tranquility. We are losing very fast the meaning of a family, and a home. A home is where we sleep, and a family is those with whom we share this home. Family events are numbered and marked on the calender, which are very few - this is the life we live, and we think we are okay. Islam teaches us a balance, but this kind of lifestyle is far from balance.
Education does not mean a woman should have learnt a profesional skill. If one cannot live a descent living in a big town in one income - times HAVE changed, and they have dampened the meaning of life - love and tranquility that I mention. I am not giving a solution package, nor do I assert any absolutes, and you may disagree with everything said here, but we cannot give quality to lives unless we give quality to marriages - and this is something to be thaught deeply.
|
|
|
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
Page <1 34567 12> |
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
Nausheen wrote: