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What BIBLE SAYS ABOUT PROPHET MUHAMMAD SAW

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    Posted: 13 May 2008 at 5:57am

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM) THE PROPHET OF ISLAM

A lecture by Ahmed Deedat

SAY:  "DO YOU SEE? WHETHER THIS MESSAGE BE FROM ALLAH (God Almighty), AND YET YOU REJECT IT, AND A WITNESS FROM AMONG THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL1 BORE WITNESS OF ONE LIKE HIM..." (SURA AHQAF) Holy Qur��n 46:10.

1. This refers to Moses. See Yusuf Ali's commentaries Nos. 4783/4 to this verse.

Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen, The subject of this evening's talk* - "What the BIBLE says about MUHAMMAD (Peace be upon him)" - will no doubt come as a surprise to many of you because the speaker is a Muslim. How does it come about that a Muslim happens to be expounding prophecies from the Jewish and Christian Scriptures?
As a young man, about 30 years ago, I attended a series of religious lectures by a Christian theologian, a certain Rev. Hiten, at the "Theatre Royal", Durban in South Africa.

* This is the text of a lecture delivered by the author in the early 1970's.

Pope or Kissinger?

This Reverend gentleman was expounding Biblical prophecies. He went on to prove that the Christian Bible foretold the rise of Soviet Russia, and the Last Days. At one stage he went to the extent of proving that his Holy Book did not leave even the Pope out of its predictions. He expatiated vigorously in order to convince his audience that the "Beast 666" mentioned in the Book of Revelation the last book of the New Testament was the POPE, who was the Vicar of Christ on earth. It is not befitting for us Muslims to enter into this controversy between the Roman Catholics and the Protestants. By the way, the latest Christian exposition of the "Beast 666" of the Christian Bible is Dr. Henry Kissinger1. Christian scholars are ingenious and indefatigable in their efforts to prove their case.
Rev. Hiten's lectures led me to ask that if the Bible foretold so many things - not even excluding the "Pope" and "Israel" - then surely it must have something to say about the greatest benefactor of mankind
2, the Holy Prophet Muhammed (may the peace of Allah be upon him).

As a youngster I set out to search for an answer. I met priest after priest, attended lectures, and read everything that I could lay my hands relating to the fields of Bible prophecies. Tonight I am going to narrate to you one of these interviews with a dominee3 of the Dutch Reformed Church.

1. Christian exegesists give progressive numerical values by sixes, to the English alphabet and add up to get the total 666. i.e. A=6,B=12,C=18, D=24 and so on. Progression by 6's because the number of the Beast in the Bible is "666". Try it for Dr.Kissinger.

2. The writer has just delivered another talk in the City Hall, Durban on the 10th December 1975 on the subject "Muhammad the Greatest".

3. "Dominee" is the Afrikaans equivalent of priest, parson and predikant.

Lucky Thirteen

I was invited to the Transvaal1 to deliver a talk on the occasion of Birthday celebration of the Holy Prophet Muhammed. Knowing that in that province of the Republic, the Afrikaans language is widely spoken, even by my own people, I felt that I ought to acquire a smattering of this language so a s to feel a little "at home" with the people. I opened the telephone directory and began phoning the Afrikaans-speaking Churches. I indicated my purpose to the priests that I was interested in having a dialogue with them, but they all refused my request with "Plausible" excuses. No.13 was my lucky number. The thirteenth call brought me pleasure and relief. A dominee Van Heerden agreed to meet me at his home on the Saturday afternoon that I was to leave for Transvaal.

He received me on his verandah with a friendly welcome. He said if I did not mind, he would like his father-in-law from the Free State (a 70 year old man) to join us in the discussion. I did not mind. The three of us settled down in the dominee's library.

1. One of the Provinces of the Republic of South Africa.

Why Nothing?

I posed the question: "What does the Bible say about Muhammed?" Without hesitation he answered, "Nothing!" I asked: "Why nothing? According to your interpretation the Bible have so many things to say about the rise of Soviet Russia and about the Last Days and even about the Pope of the Roman Catholics?" He said, "Yes, but there was nothing about Muhammed!" I asked again, "Why nothing? Surely this man Muhammed who had been responsible for the bringing into being a worldwide community of millions of Believers who, on his authority, believe in:

(1) The miraculous birth of Jesus,
(2) that Jesus is the Messiah,
1
(3) that he gave life to the dead by God's permission, and that he healed those born blind and the lepers by God's permission.

Surely this book (the Bible) must have something to say about this great Leader of men who spoke so well of Jesus and his mother Mary?" (Peace be upon them both).

The old man from the Free State replied. "My son, I have been reading the Bible for the past 50 years, and if there was any mention of him, I would have known it."

1. The word "Messiah" comes from the Arabic and Hebrew word masaha, which means to rub, to massage, to anoint. The religious significance is "the one who is anointed" - priests and kings were anointed in consecration to their offices. Messiah translated Christ does not mean God. Even the heathen Cyrus is called "Christ" in the Bible, (Isaiah 45:1)

Not one by name!

I enquired: "According to you, are there not hundreds of prophecies regarding the coming of Jesus in the Old Testament." The dominee interjected: "Not hundreds, but thousands!" I said, "I am not going to dispute the 'thousand and one' prophecies in the Old Testament regarding the coming of Jesus Christ, because the whole Muslim-world has already accepted him without the testimony of any Biblical prophecy. We Muslims have accepted the de facto Jesus on the authority of Muhummed alone, and there are in the world today no less than 900,000,0001 followers of Muhummed who love, respect and revere this great Messenger of God -Jesus Christ- without having the Christians to convince them by means of their Biblical dialectics. Out of the 'thousands' of prophecies referred to, can you please give me just one single prophecy where Jesus is mentioned by name? The term 'Messiah', translated as 'Christ', is not a name but a title. Is there a single Prophecy where it says that the name of the Messiah will be JESUS, and that his mother's name will be MARY, that his supposed father will be JOSEPH THE CARPENTER; that he will be born in the reign of HEROD THE KING, etc. etc.? No! There are no such details! Then how can you conclude that those 'thousand' Prophecies refer to Jesus (Peace be upon him)?"

1. This was first written in 1976.

What is Prophecy?

The dominee replied: "You see, prophecies are word-pictures of something that is going to happen in the future. When that thing actually comes to pass, we see vividly in these prophecies the fulfillment of what had been predicted in the past." I said: "What you actually do is that you deduce, you reason, you put two and two together." He said: "Yes." I said: "If this is what you have to do with a 'thousand' prophecies to justify your claim with regards to the genuineness of Jesus, why should we not adopt the very same system for Muhummed?"1 The dominee agreed that it was a fair proposition, a reasonable way of dealing with the problem.

I asked him to open up Deuteronomy, chapter 18, verse 18, which he did. I read from memory the verse in Afrikaans, because this was my purpose in having a little practice with the language of the ruling race in South Africa.2 

'N PROFEET SAL EK VIR HULLE VERWEK UIT DIE MIDDE VAN HULLE BROERS, SOOS JY IS, EN EK SAL MY WOORDE IN SY MOND LE, EN HY SY SAL AAN HULLE SE ALLE WAT EK HOM BEVEEL. Deut.18: 18.

The English translation reads as follows:-

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." 

(HOLY BIBLE) Deuteronomy 18:18.

1. Muhummed is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon 5:16. The Hebrew word used there is Muhammuddim. The end letters IM is plural of respect majesty and grandeur. Minus "im" the name would be Muhamud translated as "altogether lovely" in the Authorised Version of the Bible or 'The Praised One' 'the one worthy of Praise' i.e. MUHUMMED! (P.B.U.H)

2. If this booklet is translated into any language, please change the Afrikaans words into the local dialect; and do not try a free hand translation of the Biblical quotation. Obtain a Bible in the language in which translation is being made and transcribe exactly as the words occur in that Bible.

Prophet Like Moses

Having recited the verse in Afrikaans, I apologised for my uncertain pronunciation, The dominee assured me that I was doing fine. I enquired: "To whom does this prophecy refer?" Without the slightest hesitation he answered: "JESUS!" I asked: "Why Jesus?... his name is not mentioned here." The dominee replied: "Since prophecies are word-pictures of something that is going to happen in the future, we find that the wordings of this verse adequately describe him. You see the most important words of this prophecy are 'SOOS JY IS' (like unto thee), - LIKE YOU - like Moses, and Jesus is like Moses. I questioned: "In which way is Jesus like Moses?" The answer was: "In the first place Moses was a JEW and Jesus was also a JEW; secondly, Moses was a PROPHET and Jesus was also a PROPHET - therefore Jesus is like Moses and that is exactly what God had foretold Moses - "SOOS JY IS". "Can you think of any other similarities between Moses and Jesus?" I asked. The dominee said that he could not think of any. I replied: "If these are the only two criteria for discovering a candidate for this prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:18, then in that case the criteria could fit any one of the following Biblical personages after Moses:- Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist etc., because they were also ALL "Jews" as well as "Prophets". Why should we not apply this prophecy to any one of these prophets, and why only to Jesus? Why should we make fish of one and fowl of another?" The dominee had no reply. I continued: "You see, my conclusions are that Jesus is most unlike Moses, and if I am wrong I would like you to correct me."

 Three Unlikes 

So saying, I reasoned with him: 

"In the FIRST place Jesus is not like Moses, because, according to You - 'JESUS IS A GOD', but Moses is not God. Is this true?" He said: "Yes." I said: "Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses! 

"SECONDLY, according to You - 'JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD', but Moses did not have to die for the sins of the world. Is this true?" He again said: "Yes." I said: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!" 

"THIRDLY, according to You - 'JESUS WENT TO HELL FOR THREE DAYS', but Moses did not have to go there. Is this true?" He answered meekly: "Y-e-s." I concluded: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!" 

"But dominee," I continued: "these are not hard facts, solid facts, they are mere matters of belief over which the little ones can stumble and fall. Let us discuss something very simple, very easy that if your little ones are called in to hear the discussion, would have no difficulty in following it, shall we?" The dominee was quiet happy at the suggestion.

CHAPTER TWO

Eight Irrefutable Arguments

Father and Mother

(1) "Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father. Is this true?" He said: "Yes." I said: "DAAROM IS JESUS NIE SOOS MOSES NIE, MAAR MUHUMMED IS SOOS MOSES!" Meaning: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses!" (By now the reader will realise that I was using the Afrikaans language only for practice purposes. I shall discontinue its use in this narration).

 Miraculous Birth

(2) "Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle. You will recall that we are told in the Gospel of St. Matthew 1:18 ".....BEFORE THEY CAME TOGETHER,(Joseph the Carpenter and Mary) SHE WAS FOUND WITH CHILD BY THE HOLY GHOST." And St. Luke tells us that when the good news of the birth of a holy son was announced to her, Mary reasoned: "...HOW SHALL THIS BE, SEEING I KNOW NOT A MAN? AND THE ANGEL ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO HER, THE HOLY GHOST SHALL COME UPON THEE, AND THE POWER OF THE HIGHEST SHALL OVERSHADOW THEE..." (Luke 1:35). The Holy Qur��n confirms the miraculous birth of Jesus, in nobler and sublimer terms. In answer to her logical question:

" O MY LORD! HOW SHALL I HAVE A SON WHEN NO MAN HATH TOUCHED ME? "
The angel says in reply: "EVEN SO: ALLAH CREATETH WHAT HE WILLETH:
WHEN HE HATH DECREED A PLAN, HE BUT SAITH TO IT "BE,"
AND IT IS "
1   (HOLY QUR'AN, 3:47).

It is not necessary for God to plant a seed in man or animal. He merely wills it and it comes into being. This is the Muslim conception of the of birth of Jesus. (When I compared the Qur��n and the Biblical versions of the birth of Jesus to the head of the Bible Society in our largest City, and when I enquired: "Which version would you prefer to give your daughter, the QUR'ANIC version or the BIBLICAL version?" The man bowed his head and answered: "The Qur��nic.") In short, I said to the dominee: "Is it true that Jesus was born miraculously as against the natural birth of Moses and Muhummed?" He replied proudly: "Yes!" I said: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses. And God says to Moses in the Book of Deuteronomy 18:18 "LIKE UNTO THEE" (Like You, Like Moses) and Muhummed is like Moses."

1. Please open the Holy Qur��n 3:42 and 19:16 where the birth of Jesus is spoken about; read it with the commentary, note the high position which Jesus and his mother occupy in Islam.

Marriage Ties

(3) "Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life. Is this true?" The dominee said: "Yes." I said: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses."

Jesus Rejected by his People

(4) "Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. The Arabs too made Muhummed's life impossible. He suffered very badly at their hands. After 13 years of preaching in Mecca, he had to emigrate from the city of his birth. But before his demise, the Arab nation as a whole accepted him as the Messenger of Allah. But according to the Bible: 'He (Jesus) CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT.' (John 1:11). And even today, after two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejected him. Is this true?" The dominee said: "Yes." I said: "THEREFORE JESUS IS NOT LIKE MOSES, BUT MUHUMMED IS LIKE MOSES."

"Other-Wordly" Kingdom

(5) "Moses and Muhummed were prophets as well as kings. A prophet means a man who receives Divine Revelation for the Guidance of Man and this Guidance he conveys to God's creatures as received without any addition or deletion. A king is a person who has the power of life and death over his people. It is immaterial whether the person wears a crown or not, or whether he was ever addressed as king or monarch: if the man has the prerogative of inflicting capital punishment - HE IS A KING. Moses possessed such a power. Do you remember the Israelite who was found picking up firewood on Sabbath Day, and Moses had him stoned to death? (Numbers- 15:13). There are other crimes also mentioned in the Bible for which capital punishment was inflicted on the Jews at the behest of Moses. Muhummed too, had the power of life and death over his people. 

There are instances in the Bible of persons who were given gift of prophecy only, but they were not in a position to implement their directives. Some of these holy men of God who were helpless in the face of stubborn rejection of their message, were the prophets lot, Jonah, Daniel, Ezra, and John the Baptist. They could only deliver the message, but could not enforce the Law. The Holy Prophet Jesus (Peace p.b.u.h) also belonged to this category. The Christian Gospel clearly confirms this: when Jesus was dragged before the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, Charged for sedition, Jesus made a convincing point in his defence to refute the false charge: JESUS ANSWERED, "MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD': IF MY KINGDOM WERE OF THIS WORLD, THEN WOULD MY SERVANTS FIGHT, THAT I SHOULD NOT BE DELIVERED TO THE JEWS; BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM HENCE" (John 18:36) This convinced Pilate (A Pagan) that though Jesus might not be in full possession of his mental faculty, he did not strike him as being a danger to his rule. Jesus claimed a spiritual Kingdom only; in other words he only claimed to be a Prophet. Is this true?" The dominee answered: "Yes." I said: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses."

 No New Laws

(6) "Moses and Muhummed brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Moses not only gave the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, but a very comprehensive ceremonial law for the guidance of his people. Muhummed comes to a people steeped in barbarism and ignorance. They married their step-mothers; they buried their daughters alive; drunkenness, adultery, idolatry, and gambling were the order of the day. Gibbon describe the Arabs before Islam in his "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", THE HUMAN BRUTE, ALMOST WITHOUT SENSE, IS POORLY DISTINGUISHED FROM THE REST OF THE ANIMAL CREATION.' There was hardly anything to distinguish between the "man" and the "animal" of the time; they were animals in human form.

"From this abject barbarism, Muhummed elevated them, in the words of Thomas Carlysle, "into torch-bearers of light and learning.' 'TO THE ARAB NATION IT WAS AS A BIRTH FROM DARKNESS INTO LIGHT. ARABIA FIRST BECAME ALIVE BY MEANS OF IT. A POOR SHEPHERD PEOPLE, ROAMING UNNOTICED IN ITS DESERTS SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD. SEE, THE UNNOTICED BECOMES WORLD NOTABLE, THE SMALL HAS GROWN WORLD-GREAT. WITHIN ONE CENTURY AFTERWARDS ARABIA WAS AT GRANADA ON ONE HAND AND AT DELHI ON THE OTHER. GLANCING IN VALOUR AND SPLENDOUR, AND THE LIGHT OF GENIUS, ARABIA SHINES OVER A GREAT SECTION OF THE WORLD. ..." The fact is that Muhummed gave his people a Law and Order they never had before.

As regards Jesus, when the Jews felt suspicious of him that he might be an impostor with designs to pervert their teachings, Jesus took pains to assure them that he had not come with a new religion - no new laws and no new regulations. I quote his own words: 'THINK NOT THAT I AM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR ONE TITLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.'(Mathew 5:17-18). In other words he had not come with any new laws or regulation he came only to fulfil the old law. This what he gave the Jews to understand- unless he was speaking with the tongue in his cheek trying to bluff the Jews into accepting him as a man of God and by subterfuge trying to ram a new religion down their throats. No! This Messenger of God would never resort to such fo ul means to subvert the Religion of God. He himself fulfilled the laws. He observed the commandments of Moses, and he respected the Sabbath. At no time did a single Jew point a finger at him to say, 'why don't you fast' or 'why don't you wash your hands before you break bread',which charges they always levied against his disciples, but never against Jesus. This is because as a good Jew he honoured the laws of the prophets who preceded him. In short, he had created no new religion and had brought no new law like Moses and Muhummed. Is this true?" I asked the dominee, and he answered: "Yes." I said: "Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses."

How they Departed

(7) "Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths, but according to Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross.1 Is this true?" The dominee said: "Yes." I averred: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses."

Heavenly Abode

(8) "Moses and Muhummed both lie buried in earth, but according to you, Jesus in heaven. Is this true?" The dominee agreed. I said: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses."

1. For a full exposition of this topic, see "CRUCIFIXION OR CRUCI-FICTION?". 

CHAPTER THREE

Further Proofs

Ishmael The First Born

Since the dominee was helplessly agreeing with every point, I said, "Dominee, so far what I have done is to prove only one point out of the whole prophecy- that is proving the phrase 'LIKE UNTO THEE' - 'Like You' - 'Like Moses'. The Prophecy is much more than this single phrase which reads as follows : "I WILL RAISE THEM UP A PROPHET FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE UNTO THEE......." The emphasis is on the words- "From among their brethren." Moses and his people, the Jews, are here addressed as a racial entity, and as such their 'brethren' would undoubtedly be the Arabs. You see, the Holy Bible speaks of Abraham as the "Friend of God". Abraham had two wives - Sarah and Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son - HIS FIRST-BORN- '......And Abraham1 called HIS SON'S name, which Hagar bare Ishmael.' (Genesis 16:15). 'And Abraham took Ishmael HIS SON......" (Genesis 17:23). 'And Ishmael HIS SON was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.'(Genesis 17:25). Up to the age of THIRTEEN Ishmael was the ONLY son and seed of Abraham, when the covenant was ratified between God and Abraham. God grants Abraham another son through Sarah, named Isaac, who was very much the junior to his brother Ishmael.

1. According to the Bible, Abraham's name was Abram before it was changed by God to Abraham.

Arabs and Jews

If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.(Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israelites because he was a descendant of Ishmael the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!

Words in the Mouth

"The prophecy proceeds further:'.......AND I WILL PUT MY WORDS INTO HIS MOUTH.......' What does it mean when it is said 'I will put my words in your mouth'? You see, when I asked you (the dominee) to open Deuteronomy chapter 18, verse 18, at the beginning, and if I had asked you to read, and if you had read: would I be putting my words into your mouth?" The dominee answered: "No." "But," I continued: "If I were to teach you a language like Arabic about which you have no knowledge, and if I asked you to read or repeat after me what I utter i.e.

(I read them in Arabic ) 

Would I not be putting these unheard words of a foreign tongue which you utter, into your mouth?" The dominee agreed that it was indeed so. In an identical manner, I said, the words of the Holy Qur��n, the Revelation vouchsafed by the Almighty God to Muhummed, were revealed.

History tells us that Muhummed was forty years of age. He was in a cave some three miles north of the City of Mecca. It was the 27th night of the Muslim month of Ramadaan. In the cave the Archangel Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue: 'IQRA' which means READ! or PROCLAIM! or RECITE! Muhummed is terrified and in his bewilderment replies " MA ANA BEQARA which means I AM NOT LEARNED! The angel commands him a second time with the same result. For the third time the angel continues.

Now Muhummed, grasps, that what was required of him was to repeat! to rehearse! And he repeats the words as they were put into his mouth:

These are the first five verses, which were revealed to Muhummed, which now occupy the beginning of the 96th chapter of the Holy Qur��n.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2008 at 1:24pm
With reference to Songs of Solomon 5:16 here is a better understanding of who is being spoken of:-
 
The Lord Jesus Christ is the Right Shepherd, for he himself declares: "I am the right shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me." (John 10:14) He is good and true. Yes, he is a faithful Shepherd. This Shepherd is the beauty of Israel, the most glorious one in all Jehovah�s organization. He is the delightful one, "altogether desirable," "the most conspicuous of ten thousand." (Songs of Solomon 5:16, 10) Who cannot but love and adore him? "And thou, O tower of the flock, the hill of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, yea, the former dominion shall come, the kingdom of the daughter of Jerusalem."-Mic. 4:8, AS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2008 at 11:20pm
 
 robin, there was a lot in that good post about Deut 18:18. The name of the prophet "Muhammadaim" is also found in the bible, songs of Soloman. The number ten thousand (10,000) is also there for our prophet.The like of Moses is explained.
 
 There are so many points of similarity between Moses and Muhammad. So many points of dis-similarity between Moses and Jesus. You had no reply to any of those points. But you just picked on some indication to a shepherd. Remember that is also metaphorical, symbolic, not real. Did Jesus ever herd the real sheep in his life or he just worked in his fathers carpentary workshop?
 
 Jesus never brought any law. But Moses brought a law for the Jews. So did MUhammad. That is the biggest similarity. Will you please come by some more points. There was a lot in that long lecture by Ahmed Deedat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2008 at 12:46am
Originally posted by minuteman minuteman wrote:

  
There are so many points of similarity between Moses and Muhammad. So many points of dis-similarity between Moses and Jesus. You had no reply to any of those points. But you just picked on some indication to a shepherd. Remember that is also metaphorical, symbolic, not real. Did Jesus ever herd the real sheep in his life or he just worked in his fathers carpentary workshop?
 
 
The greatest prophet Jesus said:-
 
John 10:11-15
I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep. 12 The hired man, who is no shepherd and to whom the sheep do not belong as his own, beholds the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and flees�and the wolf snatches them and scatters them� 13 because he is a hired man and does not care for the sheep. 14 I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my soul in behalf of the sheep.
 
 
 
YOU MUST HAVE MISSED THESE:-
 

Deuteronomy 18:15-19

"A prophet from your own midst, from your brothers, like me, is what Jehovah your God will raise up for you�to him YOU people should listen� 16 in response to all that you asked of Jehovah your God in Ho�reb on the day of the congregation, saying, �Do not let me hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, and this great fire do not let me see anymore, that I may not die.� 17 At that Jehovah said to me, �They have done well in speaking what they did. 18 A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. 19 And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name [Jehovah], I shall myself require an account from him."-

 
In the above text from Deut. Ch. 18 the phrases "your own midst, from your brothers," is refering to the Israelite nation from where the promised prophet like Moses was to come as they where Moses brothers and would be prophet for "Jehovah" God.
 
The decendants of Ishmael, the "Ishmaelites", are numbered among the enemies of God (Allah) because as a nation the turned against God (Allah) and his people the Israelites:-
 
Psalm 83:1-9
 O God, let there be no silence on your part; Do not keep speechless, and do not stay quiet, O Divine One.  
2 For, look! your very enemies are in an uproar; And the very ones intensely hating you have raised [their] head.  
3 Against your people they cunningly carry on their confidential talk; And they conspire against your concealed ones.  
4 They have said: "Come and let us efface them from being a nation, That the name of Israel may be remembered no more."  
5 For with the heart they have unitedly exchanged counsel; Against you they proceeded to conclude even a covenant,  
6 The tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, Moab and the Hagrites, 7 Gebal and Ammon and Amalek, Philistia together with the inhabitants of Tyre.  
8 Also, Assyria itself has become joined with them; They have become an arm to the sons of Lot.
9 Do to them as to Midian, as to Sisera, As to Jabin at the torrent valley of Kishon*.   ,,,,
 
13 O my God, make them like a thistle whirl, Like stubble before a wind.
14 Like a fire that burns up the forest And like a flame that scorches the mountains,
15 In just that way may you pursue them with your tempest And may you disturb them with your own storm wind.  ....
 
17 O may they be ashamed and be disturbed for all times, And may they become abashed and perish; ...."  (See 'The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible' The oldest known Bible translated for the first time into English.) 
 
*Which is to destroy them!
 

So why would Allah choose a man to be his prophet from a nation that the considered his enemy and was only fit for destruction!?

 

Luke 7:16  "Now fear seized them all, and they began to glorify God, saying: �A great prophet"

 

Luke 24:19  "And he said to them: �What things?� They said to him: �The things concerning Jesus the Naz�a�rene', who became a prophet powerful in work and word before God and all the people;"

 

John 1:45  "Philip found Na�than'a�el and said to him: �We have found the one of whom Moses, in the Law, and the Prophets wrote, Jesus, the son of Joseph, from Naz'a�reth.�"

 

John 6:14  "Hence when the men saw the signs he performed, they began to say: �This is for a certainty the prophet that was to come into the world.�"

 

Acts 3:22-26  "In fact, Moses said, �Jehovah God will raise up for YOU from among YOUR brothers a prophet like me. YOU must listen to him according to all the things he speaks to YOU.  Indeed, any soul that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.�  And all the prophets, in fact, from Samuel on and those in succession, just as many as have spoken, have also plainly declared these days.  YOU are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God covenanted with YOUR forefathers, saying to Abraham, �And in your seed all the families of the earth will be blessed.�  To YOU first God, after raising up his Servant, sent him forth to bless YOU by turning each one away from YOUR wicked deeds.�"

 

Acts 7:37-38  "�This is the Moses that said to the sons of Israel, �God will raise up for YOU from among YOUR brothers a prophet like me.�  This is he that came to be among the congregation in the wilderness with the angel that spoke to him on Mount Si'nai and with our forefathers, and he received living sacred pronouncements to give YOU."

 

Alike Early in Their Careers

Both Moses and Jesus escaped the slaughter of very young male children. The infant Moses was concealed among the reeds on the banks of the Nile River and thus escaped the slaughter of Israelite male babies as ordered by Pharaoh of Egypt. As a young child, Jesus also escaped the slaughter of males up to two years old in Bethlehem and its districts. This massacre was ordered by King Herod the Great, who, like Pharaoh, was an enemy of God and His people.�Exodus 1:22�2:10; Matthew 2:13-18.

A mild-tempered, or meek, spirit was displayed by both Moses and Jesus. Though he was reared as a son in the household of a powerful king of Egypt, Moses came to be �by far the meekest of all the men who were upon the surface of the ground.� (Numbers 12:3) Comparably, Jesus had served as the mighty prince Michael in heaven but humbly came to the earth. (Daniel 10:13; Philippians 2:5-8) Moreover, Jesus had compassion for people and could say: �Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for your souls.��Matthew 11:29; 14:14.

For the sake of Jehovah�s service, both Moses and Jesus left behind prominent positions and great riches. To serve Jehovah and His people, Moses gave up wealth and a prestigious place in Egypt. (Hebrews 11:24-26) Similarly, Jesus left behind a greatly favored position and riches in heaven so as to serve God and His people on the earth.�2 Corinthians 8:9.

Moses and Jesus both became God�s anointed ones. The prophet Moses served as Jehovah�s anointed one to the nation of Israel. As the apostle Paul said, Moses �esteemed the reproach of [being] the Christ [anointed one] as riches greater than the treasures of Egypt.� (Hebrews 11:26; Exodus 3:1�4:17) When did Jesus become the Christ, or anointed One? This occurred when he was anointed with God�s holy spirit, or active force, upon being baptized. To the Samaritan woman at Jacob�s fountain at Sychar and before Israel�s high priest when on trial, Jesus testified that he was the Messiah, or Christ.�Mark 14:61, 62; John 4:25, 26.

Both Moses and Jesus fasted for 40 days. Early in his career as God�s spokesman, Moses fasted for 40 days while in the mountain of Sinai. (Exodus 34:28) Jesus fasted for 40 days in the wilderness and then resisted satanic temptation early in his career as the promised Messiah.�Matthew 4:1-11.

Both Men Glorified Jehovah

Jehovah used both Moses and Jesus to magnify His holy name. God told Moses to go to the Israelites in the name of �Jehovah the God of their forefathers.� (Exodus 3:13-16) Moses represented God before Pharaoh, who was kept in existence so that Jehovah�s power could be shown and His name declared in all the earth. (Exodus 9:16) Jesus likewise came in Jehovah�s name. For instance, Christ said: �I have come in the name of my Father, but you do not receive me.� (John 5:43) Jesus glorified his Father, made Jehovah�s name manifest to the men God gave him, and made it well-known on the earth.�John 17:4, 6, 26.

By divine power, Moses and Jesus both performed miracles that glorified God. Moses performed miracles to prove that he was commissioned by Jehovah God. (Exodus 4:1-31) Throughout his career, Moses, who was used by God to part the Red Sea, continued to perform miracles that glorified Jehovah. (Exodus 5:1�12:36; 14:21-31; 16:11-18; 17:5-7; Psalm 78:12-54) Similarly, Jesus brought glory to God by performing many miracles. So much was that the case that Jesus could say: �Believe me that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me; otherwise, believe on account of the works themselves.� (John 14:11) Among his miracles was that of causing a violent windstorm to abate, so that the Sea of Galilee became calm.�Mark 4:35-41; Luke 7:18-23.

Other Important Similarities

Moses and Jesus were both associated with a miraculous provision of food. Moses was Jehovah�s prophet when food was miraculously provided for the Israelites. (Exodus 16:11-36) Similarly, on two occasions of Bible record, Jesus miraculously fed multitudes with material food.�Matthew 14:14-21; 15:32-38.

Manna from heaven was linked with the service of both Moses and Jesus. Moses was leading the Israelites when they were provided with manna from heaven, as it were. (Exodus 16:11-27; Numbers 11:4-9; Psalm 78:25) In a comparable but highly important way, Jesus provided his own flesh as manna from heaven for the life of obedient mankind.�John 6:48-51.

Both Moses and Jesus led people out of bondage into freedom. Moses was used by God to lead the Israelites out of bondage to the Egyptians and into freedom as His people. (Exodus 12:37-42) Similarly, Jesus Christ has been leading his followers into freedom. Christ will yet lead obedient mankind into freedom from bondage to the organization of Satan the Devil, as well as from sin and death.�1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Colossians 1:13; 1 John 5:19.

Moses and Jesus both mediated covenants. Moses was the mediator of the Law covenant, between Jehovah God and the Israelites. (Exodus 19:3-9) Jesus is the Mediator of the new covenant, between God and spiritual Israel.�Jeremiah 31:31-34; Luke 22:20; Hebrews 8:6-13.

Judging was committed to both Moses and Jesus Christ. Moses served as judge and lawgiver to fleshly Israel. (Exodus 18:13; Malachi 4:4) Jesus serves as Judge and has given the spiritual �Israel of God� its laws and commandments. (Galatians 6:16; John 15:10) Christ himself said: �The Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.��John 5:22, 23.

Both Moses and Jesus were entrusted with headship over God�s house. Moses was faithful as the head over the house of God in ancient Israel. (Numbers 12:7) Comparably, Jesus was made the Head of Jehovah�s spiritual house of sons and has proved faithful over it. Indeed, Jesus �was faithful to the One that made him such, as Moses was also in all the house of that One. For the latter is counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who constructs it has more honor than the house. . . . Moses as an attendant was faithful in all the house of that One as a testimony of the things that were to be spoken afterwards, but Christ was faithful as a Son over the house of that One. We are the house of that One, if we make fast our hold on our freeness of speech and our boasting over the hope firm to the end.��Hebrews 3:2-6.

Even as to death, Moses and Jesus were alike. How so? Well, Jehovah removed Moses� body, thus preventing men from either profaning it or idolizing it. (Deuteronomy 34:5, 6; Jude 9) Similarly, God disposed of Jesus� body, not allowing it to see corruption and thus preventing its becoming a stumbling block to faith.�Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:50.



Edited by robin - 12 August 2008 at 9:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2008 at 10:39am
 
 robin, I may reply to just two paras of your post:
 
 
The greatest prophet Jesus said:-
 
John 10:11-15
I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep. 12 The hired man, who is no shepherd and to whom the sheep do not belong as his own, beholds the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and flees�and the wolf snatches them and scatters them� 13 because he is a hired man and does not care for the sheep. 14 I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my soul in behalf of the sheep.
 
  According to the above quote, jesus was a false prophet because he left his sheep in distress and they were suffering , hiding in caves, persecuted for three hundred (300) years. Do you agree? Muhammad never did that.
 
YOU MUST HAVE MISSED THESE:-
 

Deuteronomy 18:15-19

"A prophet from your own midst, from your brothers, like me, is what Jehovah your God will raise up for you�to him YOU people should listen� 16 in response to all that you asked of Jehovah your God in Ho�reb on the day of the congregation, saying, �Do not let me hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, and this great fire do not let me see anymore, that I may not die.� 17 At that Jehovah said to me, �They have done well in speaking what they did. 18 A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. 19 And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name [Jehovah], I shall myself require an account from him."-

 
 I did not miss anything. But I have seen that the words above are different to what we used to read. There is too much of Yehova in your text. Also the words "Brethren" has been conveniently replaced by the words "Brothers". So your presentation is malafide, not reliable.
 
 Please bring some older version of the bible and discuss things.  Moses a.s. was telling to not any one tribe of the Jews but to all Jews (all Jews) that God will raise them up a prophet, the like of Moses, from their brethren. The words "their brethren" is meaningful. It can mean nothing else than the children of Ishmael a.s. They were the brethren of the Israelis. The Israelis cannot be the brethren of themselves.
 
 And the similarity of Jesu with Moses has been disproved already. So Jesus is not that prophet. That is definite.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tariq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2008 at 2:00pm

DEAR BROTHERS,

 

I ASK ALLAH TO GUIDE US ALL THE RIGHT PATH.

 

THE QUESTION WHICH WAS RAISED MOSTLY IN THIS INCOMING VERSE WAS ABOUT JESUS PEACE BE UPON HIM IS FROM SONS OF ISRAEL  OR ISMAIILIES.

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." 

(HOLY BIBLE) Deuteronomy 18:18.

THE CRITICAL POINT WAS THAT JESUS IS NOT FROM THE BROTHERHOOD OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD PEACE BE UPON .

 

LET US DISCUSS WHO IS ISRAEL AND WHERE THESE SONS OF ISRAEL CAME FROM

 

ISRAEL IS THE NAME PROPHET JACOB PEACE BE UPON HIM THE WORD ISRAEL IN ARABIC اسرائيل  MEANS ONE WHO IS BORN AT NIGHT. AND BANI ISRAEL بني اسرائيل  SONS OF JACOB  BOTH ARE MENTIONED IN QURAN IN VARIOUS PLACES AND BOTH ARE ARABIC WORDS.

 

NOW REGARDING PROPHET ISRAEL OR JACOB PEACE BE UPON HIM  SO HE WAS THE GRAND SON OF PROPHET IBRAHIM OR ABRAHAM PEACE BE UPON HIM .

AND THE FATHER OF PROPHET JACOB PEACE BE UPON HIM WAS  PROPHET ISHAQ OR ISAAC PEACE BE UPON HIM.

NOW PROPHET IBRAHIM HAD TWO SONS FROM TWO DIFFERENT WIVES  ONE WAS  ISMAEEL PEACE BE UPON WHO WAS PROPHET AND HIS MOTHER WAS HAJARA (HAGAR)  AND PROPHET ISHAQ (ISAAC) WHOSE MOTHER WAS  SARA(SARAH0 MAY ALLAH HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF THEM.

 

NOW  IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT BOTH WERE BROTHERS AND FROM SAME BLOOD LINE AND PROPHET MUHAMMAD PEACE BE UPON WAS FROM THE BLOOD LINE OF PROPHET ISMAEEL PBUH AND EVENTUALLY THE SON OF ABRAHAM PBUH  AND JESUS WAS FROM THE BLOOD LINE OF ISHAQ PBUH WHOSE SON WAS JACOB(ISRAEL)PBUH SO EVENTUALLY HES THE SON OF ABRAHAM AS WELL. AND THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THEY WERE ALL THE SONS OF PROPHET IBRAHIM.

 

NOW WHAT THE VERSE SAYS,

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." 

(HOLY BIBLE) Deuteronomy 18:18.

IT AUTOMATICALLY ANSWERS THIS QUESTION PROPHET MUHAMMAD PEACE BE UPON HIM IS FROM THE SAME BLOOD LINE AND BROTHER HOOD OF PROPHETS.

 

 

FOR THAT I WILL QUOTE HADITH OF NARATED BY ABU HURAIRA  MAY ALLAH BE PLEASED FROM HIM  HE NARATES PROPHET MUHAMMAD SAID: I AM THE NEAREST OF THE  PEOPLE WITH JESUS SON OF MARY PEACE BE UPON HIM IN THIS LIFE AND THE AFTER LIFE  AND THE PROPHETS ARE BROTHERS............... ( AL SAHIH AL BUKHARI VOLUME 1 CHAPTER 49 . HADITH NUMBER 3259)

 

 

I HOPE I HAVE ANSWERED THE QUESTION AND MAY ALLAH  MOST GRACIOUS  GUIDE US ALL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2008 at 1:05am
Originally posted by Tariq Tariq wrote:

THE CRITICAL POINT WAS THAT JESUS IS NOT FROM THE BROTHERHOOD OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD PEACE BE UPON .

 

The above is very true which shows the Mohammed cannot be the promised one of Moses, as the prophet Jacob said that the promised one would be from the Israelite tribe of Judea, see below:-

 

Genesis 49:1-2

Later on Jacob called his sons and said: �Gather yourselves together that I may tell YOU what will happen to YOU in the final part of the days. 2 Assemble yourselves and listen, YOU sons of Jacob, yes, listen to Israel YOUR father. ...

 

Genesis 49:8-10

�As for you, Judah, your brothers will laud you. Your hand will be on the back of the neck of your enemies. The sons of your father will prostrate themselves to you. 9 A lion cub Judah is. From the prey, my son, you will certainly go up. He bowed down, he stretched himself out like a lion and, like a lion, who dares rouse him? 10 The scepter [sign of rulership] will not turn aside from Judah, neither the commander�s staff from between his feet, until Shiloh [title for Jesus*] comes; and to him the obedience of the peoples will belong.

 
Shi�loh means He Whose It Is; He to Whom It Belongs
In pronouncing a blessing upon Judah, the dying prophet and patriarch Jacob said: "The scepter will not turn aside from Judah, neither the commander�s staff from between his feet, until Shiloh comes; and to him the obedience of the peoples will belong." (Gen 49:10) Beginning with the rule of the Judean David, power to command (the commander�s staff) and regal sovereignty (the scepter) were the possessions of the tribe of Judah. This was to continue until the coming of Shiloh, indicating that the royal line of Judah would terminate in Shiloh as the permanent heir. Similarly, before the overthrow of the kingdom of Judah, Jehovah indicated to the last Judean king, Zedekiah, that rulership would be given to one having the legal right. (Ezke 21:26, 27) This would evidently be Shiloh, as the name "Shiloh" is understood to signify "He Whose It Is; He to Whom It Belongs."   Therefore, Shiloh must be Jesus Christ, "the Lion that is of the tribe of Judah."�Rev 5:5; compare Isa 11:10; Ro 15:12.

Jesus� family tree show he was from the tribe of Judea on his mothers side:-

 

Matthew 1:2

Abraham became father to Isaac; Isaac became father to Jacob; Jacob became father to Judah and his brothers; ...

Matthew 1:16

Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

 

Jesus is from the right tribe to be the promised one of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2008 at 1:18am
Originally posted by minuteman minuteman wrote:

 
 robin, I may reply to just two paras of your post:
 
 
The greatest prophet Jesus said:-
 
John 10:11-15
I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep. 12 The hired man, who is no shepherd and to whom the sheep do not belong as his own, beholds the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and flees�and the wolf snatches them and scatters them� 13 because he is a hired man and does not care for the sheep. 14 I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my soul in behalf of the sheep.
 
  According to the above quote, jesus was a false prophet because he left his sheep in distress and they were suffering , hiding in caves, persecuted for three hundred (300) years. Do you agree? Muhammad never did that.
 
YOU MUST HAVE MISSED THESE:-
 

Deuteronomy 18:15-19

"A prophet from your own midst, from your brothers, like me, is what Jehovah your God will raise up for you�to him YOU people should listen� 16 in response to all that you asked of Jehovah your God in Ho�reb on the day of the congregation, saying, �Do not let me hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, and this great fire do not let me see anymore, that I may not die.� 17 At that Jehovah said to me, �They have done well in speaking what they did. 18 A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. 19 And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name [Jehovah], I shall myself require an account from him."-

 
 I did not miss anything. But I have seen that the words above are different to what we used to read. There is too much of Yehova in your text. Also the words "Brethren" has been conveniently replaced by the words "Brothers". So your presentation is malafide, not reliable.
 
 Please bring some older version of the bible and discuss things.  Moses a.s. was telling to not any one tribe of the Jews but to all Jews (all Jews) that God will raise them up a prophet, the like of Moses, from their brethren. The words "their brethren" is meaningful. It can mean nothing else than the children of Ishmael a.s. They were the brethren of the Israelis. The Israelis cannot be the brethren of themselves.
 
 And the similarity of Jesu with Moses has been disproved already. So Jesus is not that prophet. That is definite.
 
 
 
'The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible' "The oldest known Bible translated for the fist time into English" reads at Deut. 18:18 for "their brothers" or "their brethern" "the countrymen" that is the Israelites, as these words are all various wasy to say the same thing!
 
 
 
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
broth�er   
 Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bruhth-er or, for 9, bruhth-ur] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural brothers, (Archaic) brethren; interjection
�noun
1. a male offspring having both parents in common with another offspring; a male sibling.
2. Also called half brother. a male offspring having only one parent in common with another offspring.
3. a stepbrother.
4. a male numbered among the same kinship group, nationality, race, profession, etc., as another; an associate; a fellow member, fellow countryman, fellow man, etc.: a fraternity brother.
5. Ecclesiastical.
a. (often initial capital letter) a male numbered among the lay members of a religious organization that has a priesthood.
b. a man who devotes himself to the duties of a religious order without taking holy orders, or while preparing for holy orders.
6. brothers, all members of a particular race, or of the human race in general: All men are brothers.
7. Slang. fellow; buddy: Brother, can you spare a dime?
8. Informal. a black man; soul brother.
�interjection
9. Slang. (used to express disappointment, disgust, or surprise).

[Origin: bef. 1000; ME; OE brōthor; c. D broeder, G Bruder, ON brōthir, Goth brothar, Skt bhrātṛ, Gk phrt�r, L frāter, OIr br�thair, OCS bratrŭ]

�Related forms
broth�er�less, adjective
broth�er�like, adjective

�Synonyms 1. Brothers, brethren are plurals of brother. Brothers are kinsmen, sons of the same parents: My mother lives with my brothers. Brethren, now archaic in the foregoing sense, is used of male members of a congregation or of a fraternal organization: The brethren will meet at the church.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, � Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
breth�ren  (brěth'ren)  Pronunciation Key 
n.   A plural of
brother.

The American Heritage� Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
 
 
"Brothers" and "brethern" mean the same thing!

Edited by robin - 14 August 2008 at 6:06am
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