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Noah View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Quran alone
    Posted: 27 June 2005 at 4:30am
Peace family

As stated in the forum where we present us self. Im a follower of the Quran alone philosphy. This means that whenever i have a situation i cannot handle, i turn to God, and then his Quran for answers. I love all prophets equally and make no distinction at all between them, as commanded. The message is important, the messenger isnt. they are with God, and cant help us now anyway, only God have that power.

Often my sunni and shia brothers ask me, well how do you know how to pray then?

Simple, i know for a fact that i have to pray, i altso know the times from the Quran. And were told that it involves prostration in the book itself, and we can find examples of numerous prophets who stood in prayer, and whom prostrated themself. When God does not detail this anymore, i dont belive it is because he forgot about it or ran out of words. But he introduce a new concept to us called freedom.

I have to pray, i have to do it at certain time, and i have to prostrate myself to God, anything else is how i prefer it. If i have a bad back, i should be carefull not to make it worse, and find a solution that fits my needs atm. I love God for this with all my heart.

I have other reasons to completely disregard the hadith, but i dont want to insult anyones system of belief as it can be potentially as good as mine or as wrong as mine, depending on position. And i allready overspoke in the thread about Jinn. Its better that people search themself, draw their own conclutions.

I guess in many ways you can call people like me, the protestants of Islam. I view sunnism and shiitism, with the same glases that i look at the roman catholic system of belief. A god like clergy that knows it all and have all the answers. I belive that God gave us a book so we could study it and learn from it, even if we are isolated from the world. All praises be to God.

I hope people will accept me for what and who i am, or try to prove me wrong in a positive way. My travel IS a travel, and thus, im allways willing to learn and admit if im wrong. Altso i would like to know what people reasons for hadith are.

And i will end this with the words of Abraham (Gbh)

"I submit myself to The Lord of the worlds."

Peace
Noah
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2005 at 4:39am

Bismillah

This is more appropriatre for "Introduction: Who am I" section.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2005 at 4:56am

Allah Most High has stated: Whosoever renounces the Messenger after the guidance has been made clear to him and proceeds to follow other than the way of the believers we shall turn away from him for what he has undertaken and burn him in hell. What a terrible end! [Q. An-Nisaa' 4:115]

And the Most High says: Rather they deny what they cannot understand and when the explanation of it comes to them. Such is the denial of those who preceded them and look at the outcome of the deniers of the truth. [Q. Yoonus 10:39]

Nor is the denial of the confirmed sayings of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) an insignificant matter because Allah Most High says: What the Messenger has forbidden you from, desist from it and fear Allah. Verily Allah is intense in punishment. [Q. Al-Hashr 59:7]

It is related in Saheeh Muslim from Abu Hurairah (radiallahu anhu) that the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said, �I have been ordered to fight the people until they bear witness that there is no deity except Allah and they believe in me and that which I have brought. If they do this then their blood and wealth is inviolable to me except with just cause and their account rests with Allah.

Obligation Of Belief In All That The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) Has Informed Us Of The Matters Of The Unseen

This is a proof that it is incumbent to believe in all that the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) has informed us whether about past events or what will occur in the future. This also shows that the inviolability of one's life and wealth is for those who believe in the Messenger (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam), and all that he brought, and whosoever disbelieves does not share this immunity. This becomes that much more intensified against anyone who rejects confirmed ahadeeth of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and contradicts or opposes them based upon their own or someone else's opinion.

Stubborness In Rejecting Authentic Hadeeth


Imaam Ahmed (may Allah Most High have mercy upon him) has said �Whosoever rejects the hadeeth of the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is on the brink of destruction Ishaaq ibn Raahawiyyah said: �Whosoever has received information from the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) that is confirmed in its authenticity and then rejects it without fear is a disbeliever (kaafir).

Abu Muhammad Al-Barbahaari stated in his Sharhus-Sunnah �If you hear a man who discredits the traditions and does not accept them or he denies something of the information from the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then doubt his Islam for he is a man of the vilest thought and speech. He is in fact discrediting the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and his Sahaabah

He also stated �Any one of the people of the qiblah is not expelled from the fold of Islam until he has rejected a verse of the Book of Allah the Mighty and Sublime or has rejected something from the traditions of the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam), or prays to other than Allah or slaughters for other than Allah. If so, it is your duty to expel him from the fold of Islam.

He further stated �Whosoever rejects a single verse from Allah's Book has rejected the Book in its entirety, and whosoever rejects ahadeeth of the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) has certainly rejected the entirety of the traditions and is by that a disbeliever in Allah the Most Great.

Ibraaheem ibn Ahmed ibn Shaaqilaa has said �Whoever opposes news [of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam)] and yet insolently dares to reject what has been transmitted by an authentic and good narrator (adl) who has transmitted directly from someone who is also adl - with no break in the chain of narration and no defect in its transmission - has forced his way into the rejection of Islam.

Ibn Hazm stated in Kitaabul Ahkaam �When there comes the text (of a hadeeth) and no two Muslims differ on its correctness and authenticity as having come from the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and being what he has in fact said, then it is obligatory to follow it. It is the explanation what Allah intends in the Qur'aan and general clarification of it.

Excerpted from the book Iqaamatul-Burhaan (Establishing the Proof) A Refutation Against Those Who Deny the Appearance of the Mahdi, the Coming of the Dajjaal, And the Descent of the Messiah at the End of Time



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2005 at 4:57am
Peace

I posted there, and my question here is "Altso i would like to know what peoples reasons for hadith are.". Is that a better question for the other forum? I just took the most used arguements and told my stand on them upfront. so people dont have to spent time writing something i have refuted numerous times with others.

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Noah




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2005 at 5:39am
peace

Quote Whosoever renounces the Messenger after the guidance has been made clear to him and proceeds to follow other than the way of the believers we shall turn away from him for what he has undertaken and burn him in hell. What a terrible end! [Q. An-Nisaa' 4:115]


I dont, thats why i live by the Quran that he came with from God. I have nothing but respect for the messengerS.

Quote Rather they deny what they cannot understand and when the explanation of it comes to them. Such is the denial of those who preceded them and look at the outcome of the deniers of the truth. [Q. Yoonus 10:39]


Like people who read the Quran and cannot figure out how to pray, and then take other books for guidence?

Quote What the Messenger has forbidden you from, desist from it and fear Allah. Verily Allah is intense in punishment.


I have no idea what that is... heres 59:7

Quote Ma afaa Allahu AAala rasoolihi min ahli alqura falillahi walilrrasooli walithee alqurba waalyatama waalmasakeeni waibni alssabeeli kay la yakoona doolatan bayna al-aghniya-i minkum wama atakumu alrrasoolu fakhuthoohu wama nahakum AAanhu faintahoo waittaqoo Allaha inna Allaha shadeedu alAAiqabi

Litteral:
Quote What God bestowed upon/gave spoils of war on His messenger from the villages'/urban cities' people , so (it is) to God and the messenger, and to of the relations/near, and the orphans , and the poorest of poor/poor oppressed, and the traveler/stranded traveler, in order that (it) not be a rotation/alternation between the rich from you, and what the messenger gave you , so take/receive it , and what he forbid/prevented you from it, so terminate/stop , and fear and obey God, so that truly God (is) strong (severe in) the punishment.


Im not sure i understand the point of posting 59:7 in this debate

Quote Obligation Of Belief In All That The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) Has Informed Us Of The Matters Of The Unseen


Quote This is a proof that it is incumbent to believe in all that the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) has informed us whether about past events or what will occur in the future.


Oh yeah? how do you explain this then?

Quote "Say, "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner." (Quran 46:9)


If he has no idea what will happen to us, how can he know the future, in a scripture NOT give by devine inspiration, but sayings collected 2-400 years after his death, and that God in no way promises to preserve like he does the Quran. The simple answer is...he couldnt and he didnt.

Quote This also shows that the inviolability of one's life and wealth is for those who believe in the Messenger (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam), and all that he brought, and whosoever disbelieves does not share this immunity. This becomes that much more intensified against anyone who rejects confirmed ahadeeth


Confirmed by whom, and on whos authority?. Notice the leap of faith here. He posts verses from the Quran, and then use hadith to verify them.Even at worst case scenario it should be the other way around.  Truth does not need to be validated by ignorance ever.

Quote Stubborness In Rejecting Authentic Hadeeth


what "authentic" hadith might this be? the ones sunnis claim? the shiits? the sufis? all agree that the Quran is what it is. but NOONE agrees on what is saheeh and what isnt.

Quote Abu Muhammad Al-Barbahaari stated in his Sharhus-Sunnah �If you hear a man who discredits the traditions and does not accept them or he denies something of the information from the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then doubt his Islam for he is a man of the vilest thought and speech. He is in fact discrediting the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and his Sahaabah


Not at all...THIS is discrediting the messenger.

Quote

"The Prophet never urinated in standing position" (Hanbel 6/136,192,213).
"The prophet urinated in standing position" (Bukhary 4/60,62).
"The prophet gave permission to kill children and women in war" (Bukhari, Jihad/146; Ebu Davud 113).
"A tribe of monkeys arrested an adulterous monkey and stoned it to death, and I helped them" (Bukhary 63/27).
"Muhammad possessed sexual power of 30 men" (Bukhary).
"A group from the Ureyneh and Uqayleh tribes came to the prophet and the prophet advised them to drink urine of camels. Later on, when they killed the prophet's shepherd, the prophet seized them, gouged out their eyes, cut their hands and legs, and left them thirsty in the desert" (Bukhary 56/152, Hanbel 3/107,163).
"To prove His identity, God opened his legs and showed the prophet His thigh." (Bukhary 97/24, 10/129 and the comment on the Sura 68.)
"The prophet had been bewitched by a Jew, and for several days he did not know what he was doing" (Bukhari 59/11; 76/47; Hanbel 6/57; 4/367).


(No comment, they speak for themselves, and those arent even that bad.)

Quote He also stated �Any one of the people of the qiblah is not expelled from the fold of Islam until he has rejected a verse of the Book of Allah the Mighty and Sublime or has rejected something from the traditions of the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam), or prays to other than Allah or slaughters for other than Allah. If so, it is your duty to expel him from the fold of Islam.�

On whos authority does he proclaim this, when the Quran teaches us never to call ANYONE a disbeliever who greets us with peace? But perhaps he knows better than God?

Quote He further stated �Whosoever rejects a single verse from Allah's Book has rejected the Book in its entirety


I agree

Quote and whosoever rejects ahadeeth of the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) has certainly rejected the entirety of the traditions and is by that a disbeliever in Allah the Most Great.�

 
Put forth your evidence of this, from the source, if you are truthfull.

Quote Ibraaheem ibn Ahmed ibn Shaaqilaa has said �Whoever opposes news [of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam)] and yet insolently dares to reject what has been transmitted by an authentic and good narrator (adl) who has transmitted directly from someone who is also adl - with no break in the chain of narration and no defect in its transmission - has forced his way into the rejection of Islam�.


First, we have no way of knowingif the narrators are truthfull or not. we only have THEIR OWN testimony. And nothing in the socalled "science" of hadith is able to stop a lie. If the narrator is "trusted" he can be quoted for whatever nonsense people can come up with. And theb are fact that more than a million hadith was discarted by Bukhari and Muslim, tells you that theres something amiss. He simply wouldnt have time to giv each hadith he collected just 10 minutes, if he where to go through them all. Yet alone, he could never have checked out if they where trustworthy or not, as all of them was dead at the time.

Here is a little test for you... gather 20 people, and whisper a small story into one persons ear. Be amazed to hear what happened to it when it reaches you again. But im reqwuired to belive that those storys, could wander for 200-400 years without corruption at all? Freind, we disregard the gospels of jesus on this very same criterion. why are we so unwilling to take a look in our own backyard?

Quote Ibn Hazm stated in Kitaabul Ahkaam �When there comes the text (of a hadeeth) and no two Muslims differ on its correctness and authenticity as having come from the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and being what he has in fact said, then it is obligatory to follow it. It is the explanation what Allah intends in the Qur'aan and general clarification of it.�


Ok, fair enough so wich one is it?

"The Prophet never urinated in standing position" (Hanbel 6/136,192,213).
"The prophet urinated in standing position" (Bukhary 4/60,62).

So far all  i have seen rely on schoolars pet ideas about hadith, and what they belive to be true. A few verses, 2 of them completely out of context to prove the point, just isnt good neough. Im NOT going to take their word for it, because i have no right to do so.

Quote ��The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran." (Quran 25:30)


It does not say, this Quran and my hadith. I wonder what he is talking about when he says we left the Quran. For what other scriptures?

And finally

Say, 'Whose testimony is the greatest?' Say, 'GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside GOD.' Say, 'I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry.' (6:19)

Peace
Noah




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2005 at 6:59am

Bismillah

Noah, i just gave you an excerpt that i thought might be relevant. I see that you came here well armed with a bucket of filth and just waited for the right moment to reveal its colors and odour.

Your blasphemous ahadeeth and their references are non-existent and offensive to say the least. Your methodology of story telling are nowhere near the meticulous and careful process involved in the recording of the ahadith (although it has never asssumed the protected status of the Qur'aan).   

With so much hatred towards the ahadeeth that were preserved by the companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him), the practices that have been passed to us through action and implementation it is surprising that you have not begun rejecting the Qur'an yet... but you have undoubtedly made enough steps to put yourself at an alarming distance from commiting that.

What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to Allah,- to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; In order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah. for Allah is strict in Punishment. (Quran 59:07)

How do we determine what the Messenger (peace be upon him) has ordered, in order to obey it? How do we find out what he judged in disputes so that we can abide by it? How do we know what he has decided on matters, so that we can submit to it? How do we discover what he has given, so that we can take it, or what he has prohibited, so we can abstain from it?

What about azaan, what about the prayers, the shahada. You'll stumble at the very first verse of Sura al-Baqarah... alif lam mim

We had many passing by "submitters" all but bringing mud into the house.

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2005 at 12:13pm
Peace

Im not a submitter. I belive it to be utter bogus. Simple statistics can blow a hole in the whole concept. And taking a single verse "over it is 19" completely out of its context to create a whole new theology seams pretty weak. Oh yeah, that and Kaliffa who called himself the messenger.
Quote Noah, i just gave you an excerpt that i thought might be relevant. I see that you came here well armed with a bucket of filth and just waited for the right moment to reveal its colors and odour.


No they where just completely random to be honest. I dont have an arsenal of them ready. Im more interrested in The Quran :)

Quote Your blasphemous ahadeeth and their references are non-existent and offensive to say the least.


Yet they where still recorded. I wonder how terrible the 600.000 hadith bukhari discarded was then. Did you know that less than 10% of his collected hadith was recorded? that is merely based on a chain of narraters, we are unable to find if was trust worthy or not.

Quote With so much hatred towards the ahadeeth that were preserved by the companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him), the practices that have been passed to us through action and implementation it is surprising that you have not begun rejecting the Qur'an yet... but you have undoubtedly made enough steps to put yourself at an alarming distance from commiting that.


I dont hate the hadith. As historical refference they are helpfull. As relegious law, they are not. I would never reject the Quran. Its the infallible word of God, period. And that is why i do as it says, and only that.

Quote What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to Allah,- to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; In order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah. for Allah is strict in Punishment. (Quran 59:07)


Try and read this verse again. what does it have to do with hadith at all? Who is it that is supposed to take something from the messenger (Gbh) and what is the context. Its right there in the verse itself.

Quote How do we determine what the Messenger (peace be upon him) has ordered, in order to obey it?


By reading and studying Al'Quran that he came with?

��A Quran that we have separated, in order that it may be understood by the people over a long period, although we sent it down all at once.�� (Quran 17:106)

Quote How do we find out what he judged in disputes so that we can abide by it?


Shall I seek a Law-giver other than Allah When He it is Who has revealed to you the Book distinctly elucidated. (6:114)

By the Book that makes THINGS CLEAR (Quran : 44.2)

God has revealed the most beautiful Message in the form of a Book, CONSISTENT WITH ITSELF repeating itself in various ways (Quran : 39.23)

Quote What about azaan, what about the prayers, the shahada. You'll stumble at the very first verse of Sura al-Baqarah... alif lam mim


Thats because you are bending logic. You are looking for something that isnt there. You have your mind set on what prayer is, as a set of rituals to perform that you know from another source. Try and look at it from another angle. I dont have a problem with performing any of the above, but it may differ from yours.is that a problem? Does God develope intelligent thinkers, or arab speaking robots?
Most muslims i know have this idea that all must be as arab as possible. wich is directly against the Quran that makes it clear thta one of the miracles are is our differences,in language (thus culture), color. But there are certain laws that must be established in society and in each individual, all wich can be found in Al'Quran.

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Noah


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2005 at 8:12pm

"If anyone disobeys Allah and His Messenger he is indeed on a clearly wrong path." [Al-Ahzab, 33:36]
"He that obeys Allah and His Messenger has already attained the great victory." [Al-Ahzab, 33:71].

For the past fourteen centuries Qur'an and Sunnah have been the twin undisputed sources of Guidance for Muslims. In every generation, the Muslims devoted the best of their minds and talents to their study. They learned both the words and meanings of the Qur'an through the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and made an unprecedented effort in preserving them for the next generation. The result: The development of the marvelous -- and unparalleled -- science of hadith, one of the brightest aspects of Muslim history.

What does it mean to believe in a Prophet except to pledge to follow him? And so the teachings of the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, have always guided this Ummah. No body, in his right mind, could or did question this practice. Then something happened. During the colonial period, when most of the Muslim world came under the subjugation of the West, some "scholars" arose in places like Egypt (Taha Hussein), India (Abdullah Chakralawi and Ghulam Ahmed Pervaiz), and Turkey (Zia Gogelup), who began questioning the authenticity and relevance of hadith. It was not that some genius had found flaws in the hadith study that had eluded the entire ummah for thirteen centuries. It was simply that the pressures from the dominant Western civilization to conform were too strong for them to withstand. They buckled. Prophetic teachings and life example -- Hadith -- was the obstacle in this process and so it became the target.

Another factor helped them. Today most Muslims, including the vast majority of the western-educated Muslims, have meager knowledge of hadith, having spent no time in studying even the fundamentals of this vast subject. How many know the difference between Sahih and Hasan, or between Maudau and Dhaif? The certification process used in hadith transmission? Names of any hadith book produced in the first century of Hijrah, or the number of such books? A majority probably would not be able to name even the six principal hadith books (Sihah Sitta) or know anything about the history of their compilation. Obviously such atmosphere provides a fertile ground for sowing suspicions and doubts.

They call themselves as ahle-Qur'an or Quranists. This is misleading. For their distinction is not in affirming the Qur'an, but in rejecting the Hadith. The ideas of munkareen-e-hadith evolve into three mutually contradictory strains. The first holds that the job of the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, was only to deliver the Qur'an. We are to follow only the Qur'an and nothing else, as were the Companions. Further, hadith is not needed to understand the Qur'an, which is sufficient for providing guidance. The second group holds that the Companions were required to follow the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, but we are not. The third holds that, in theory, we also have to follow the hadith but we did not receive ahadith through authentic sources and therefore we have to reject all ahadith collections!

Internal contradictions are a hallmark of false ideologies. How can anyone hold the first position yet profess belief in Qur'an while it says: "And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them." [An-Nahal, 16:44]. And this: "Allah did confer a great favor on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs (Verses) of Allah, purifying them, instructing them in Scripture, and teaching them Wisdom. While before that they were in manifest error." [A'ale Imran 3:164].

How can anyone hold the second position (limiting the Prophethood to 23 years) yet profess belief in Qur'an, while it says: "We did not send you except as Mercy for all creatures." [Al-Anbia, 21:107] And, "We have not sent you except as a Messenger to all mankind, giving them glad tidings and warning them against sin." [Saba, 34:28]

The third position seems to have avoided these obvious pitfalls, yet in reality it is no different. Consider statements 1, 4, and 7 in the summary of hadith rejecters' claims. So hadith undermines Qur'an's exclusivity, yet would have been followed blindly at the time of the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. Ahadith cannot be followed because they are not reliable, yet can be followed for ritual prayers.

Salah And Hadith Rejecters

But we don't need a favor for hadith about salah (coming from the same books and the same narrators who are declared as unreliable). We need an answer to this question: If the Qur'an is the only authentic source of Guidance, why did it never explain how to offer salah, although it repeatedly talks about its importance, associating it with eternal success and failure? What would we think of a communication that repeatedly emphasizes a certain act but never explains how to perform it? There are only two possibilities. Either it is a terrible omission (and in that case it cannot be from God) or another source for the how-to information is provided and it is a terrible mistake for any recipient to ignore that.

(Recently some hadith rejecters have realized the difficulty of their position on salah. But they have made a claim that is even more ludicrous, namely that the Qur'an gives details on how to offer salah. "A careful reading of the Koran reveals that we are to get our Salaah from the Masjid-el Haraam [the continuous practice at Mecca since the time of Abraham]," says one proponent, "specifically the 'place of Abraham (moqaam e Ibraheem).'" Let us leave aside all the practical questions about such a fluid answer. Whose Salah? When? Are we to follow anyone and everyone we find praying at Muqame Ibrahim? How are those offering salah there are to determine proper way of offering Salah? How do you resolve their differences? In his enthusiasm in proposing this innovative solution, this proponent even forgot that the Qur'an says the following about the salah of mushrikeen at the Masjid-el Haraam: "Their prayer at the House of Allah is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands. (Its only answer can be), 'Taste the chastisement because you blasphemed.'" [Al-Anfal 8:35] )

The Reliability of Resources

To accept one and reject the other source on the basis of reliability (statement #2) also defies reason, unless we received the Qur'an directly from Allah. But we have received both Qur'an and Hadith through the same channels. Same people transmitted this as the Word of Allah, that as the word of the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi was sallam. Even the verse claiming that Qur'an will be protected came to us through the same people. Through what logic can anyone declare that the channels are reliable for Qur'an and unreliable for Hadith? On the contrary the Quranic promise of protection must apply to Hadith as well for there is no point in protecting the words but not the meanings of the Qur'an.

Protection of Qur'an

To say that Allah promised to protect only Qur'an but not Islam (#6) is being as ridiculous as one can get. Let's ignore the obvious question regarding the point of this Heavenly act. The question is if Islam has been corrupted and its true teachings have been lost, how can anyone claim to be its follower? Moreover, Qur'an says "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost" [A'al-e-Imran, 3:85]. How are we to follow the religion acceptable to Allah if it was not to be protected?

Were Ahadith Written Down for the First Time in the Third Century of Hijra?

The above proves that ahadith must have been protected. Were they? The very existence of a huge library of hadith -- the only one of its kind among the religions of the world -- answers the question in the affirmative. To dismiss all that as later day fabrication (#1A, #2) requires lots of guts -- and equal parts ignorance. Were ahadith written down for the first time in the third century of Hijra? Not at all. Actually hadith recording and collection started at the time of the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. Abd-Allah ibn Amr ibn al-'As, Radi-Allahu unhu, sought and was given the permission to write everything he heard from the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa Sallam, who said: "By the One in Whose Hands is my life! Whatever proceeds from here [pointing to his mouth] is the truth." He produced Sahifa Sadiqa, which contained more than six thousand ahadith. Anas ibn Malik, Radi-Allahu unhu, who spent ten years in Prophet's household, not only recorded the ahadith but also presented them to the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and got corrections. Abu Hurairah, Radi-Allahu unhu, had many volumes of his collections and even produced smaller compilations for his students. Prominent Hadith scholar Dr. Mustafa Azami has shown in his doctoral thesis that in the first century of Hijra many hundred booklets of hadith were in circulation. By the end of the second century, "by the most conservative estimate there were many thousands."

Of course most of these books do not exist today. They were simply absorbed into the encyclopedic collections that emerged in the third century. One manuscript from the first century was discovered in this century and published by Dr. Hamidullah. It is Sahifa Hammam ibn Munabbah, who was a disciple of Abu Hurairah, Radi-Allahu unhu. It contains 138 ahadith. Muhaddithin knew that the ahadith of this Sahifa had been absorbed into Musnad Ahmed and Muslim collections, which have been published continuously since their third century debut. After the discovery of the original manuscript it was naturally compared with the ahadith in Muslim and Musnad Ahmed that were thought to have come from that Sahifa. And what did they find? There was not an iota of difference between the two. Similarly Mussanaf of Abd al-Razzaq is extant and has been published. As has been Mu'ammar ibn Rashid's al-Jami. These recently discovered original manuscripts bear out the Sihah Sitta. The recent appearance of these original manuscripts should bring the most skeptical into the fold of believers.

Saheeh and the Gospels

Regarding comparison of Saheeh with Gospels (#2), let's listen to Dr. Hamidullah. "The compilation of the Gospels, their preservation and transmission from one generation to the other, has not taken place in the way which governed the books of Hadith... We do not know who wrote them, who translated them, and who transmitted them. How were they transferred from the original Aramaic to Greek? Did the scribes make arrangements for a faithful reproduction of the original? The four Gospels are mentioned, for the first time, three hundred years after Christ. Should we rely on such an unauthentic book in preference to that of Bukhari who prefaces every statement of two lines with three to nine references?"

MOCKBA
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