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Is Jesus really a Prophet?
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Egwpisteuw View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 November 2010 at 11:54am

Originally posted by Mansoor_ali Mansoor_ali wrote:

Yes Quran confirms that Jesus is a Prophet of Allah

This quote is from another thread but I think it is significant enough that I am making a separate thread here.

I posit that Jesus cannot be a Prophet in Islam as follows:

A. The Quran says Jesus was a prophet:
[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet. Surah 19:30

B. Jesus prophesied his own crucifixion and death:
When Jesus had finished all these words, He said to His disciples, "You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of Man is to be handed over for crucifixion." Matt 26:1-2

From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day. Matt 16:21

C. The Quran says Jesus was not crucified and did not die"
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. (Surah 4:157)

Therefore the Jesus of the Quran falsely prophesied His crucifixion and death and thus cannot be a prophet in Islam.



Edited by Egwpisteuw - 07 November 2010 at 11:55am
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Mansoor_ali View Drop Down
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 To Egwpisteuw

 I agree Quran and Bible donot agree on same matters but it doesnot mean if Bible doesnot agree with Quran then Quran is wrong and Bible is not.For muslims Quran and Sunnah is scale not Bible and for christians their Bible is authority not Quran.

 Quran confirms only those things in the Bible which are accurate.Can you quote a verse from a Quran where Quran rejects messengership of Jesus Christ because according to you Jesus is not a Prophet in Islam?
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Originally posted by Mansoor_ali Mansoor_ali wrote:


 To Egwpisteuw

 I agree Quran and Bible donot agree on same matters but it doesnot mean if Bible doesnot agree with Quran then Quran is wrong and Bible is not.For muslims Quran and Sunnah is scale not Bible and for christians their Bible is authority not Quran.
Hold on a minute Mansoor, you sound like a postmodernist here. I thought absolute truth was something on which Christians and Muslims agreed?
 
There cannot be one truth for Muslims and another truth for Christians. Both groups, as well as all men, are subject to the same truth and it is incumbent on us all to diligently seek out and find the truth.  
 
I am a student of both the Quran and the Bible. Both claim to be revelation from God and thus they must agree. Additionally, the Quran makes itself subordinate to the Bible in the exact same way that the NT makes itself subordinate to the OT. Thus, I am prefectly justified in juxtaposing the Quran with the Bible, drawing conculsions, and insisting those conclusions make sense. Am I not?
 
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2010 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Egwpisteuw Egwpisteuw wrote:

Originally posted by Mansoor_ali Mansoor_ali wrote:

Yes Quran confirms that Jesus is a Prophet of Allah

This quote is from another thread but I think it is significant enough that I am making a separate thread here.

I posit that Jesus cannot be a Prophet in Islam as follows:

A. The Quran says Jesus was a prophet:
[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet. Surah 19:30

B. Jesus prophesied his own crucifixion and death:
When Jesus had finished all these words, He said to His disciples, "You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of Man is to be handed over for crucifixion." Matt 26:1-2

From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day. Matt 16:21

C. The Quran says Jesus was not crucified and did not die"
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. (Surah 4:157)

Therefore the Jesus of the Quran falsely prophesied His crucifixion and death and thus cannot be a prophet in Islam.

 
I do not understand your point, where and how does  it suggest that Jesus is not a prophet of God? Please clarify your claim.
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

I do not understand your point, where and how does  it suggest that Jesus is not a prophet of God? Please clarify your claim.
If Jesus prophesied His death and crucifixion but did not die and was not crucified, than He cannot be a Prophet.
Χριστὸς ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἀπέθανεν
Christ died for us
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 To Egwpisteuw

 Quran is not subordinated to previous revelations.This is my first point.

 Secondly Jesus never prophesized his death due to crucifixion according to Quran but if Bible says it then we muslims cannot take such account reliable.

 
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2010 at 3:40pm
Thanks Masoor for the answer, I was away for a few days.
Jazakallah.
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Quote I agree Quran and Bible donot agree on same matters but it doesnot mean if Bible doesnot agree with Quran then Quran is wrong and Bible is not.For muslims Quran and Sunnah is scale not Bible and for christians their Bible is authority not Quran.

Hold on a minute Mansoor, you sound like a postmodernist here. I thought absolute truth was something on which Christians and Muslims agreed?
 
There cannot be one truth for Muslims and another truth for Christians. Both groups, as well as all men, are subject to the same truth and it is incumbent on us all to diligently seek out and find the truth.  
 
I am a student of both the Quran and the Bible. Both claim to be revelation from God and thus they must agree. Additionally, the Quran makes itself subordinate to the Bible in the exact same way that the NT makes itself subordinate to the OT. Thus, I am prefectly justified in juxtaposing the Quran with the Bible, drawing conculsions, and insisting those conclusions make sense. Am I not?
 


Maybe a quote from Paul Watzlawick can resolve the matter:

"The belief that one's own view of reality is the only reality is the most dangerous of all delusions."

There can be more than one absolute spiritual truth, because spiritual truths are about beliefs, not scientific facts or first-order logic. Both the Quran and the Bible can be seen as spiritually true.




Edited by Matt Browne - 23 November 2010 at 7:27am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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