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The Jews call ’Uzair a son of Allah

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George View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 May 2006 at 9:30am

Please take a look at this verse from the Qur'an:

009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

 

I can find no evidence that the Jews ever called Uzair a son of Allah, not from Christian sources and not from Jewish sources.  I contacted a Jewish scholar and he said the same thing.

 

Can anyone explain why Allah said:  "Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"

 

Can anyone explain?

 

Thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2006 at 10:35am

George,

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it! I knew that this was coming from you sooner or later and it did.

From you and I have edited your post for brevity:

"Please take a look at this verse from the Qur'an:

009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"

Okay, we know that Qur'aan says that and that is very true.  

Then you wrote, George: "I can find no evidence that the Jews ever called Uzair a son of Allah, not from Christian sources and not from Jewish sources.  I contacted a Jewish scholar and he said the same thing."

 

George, Qur'aan had covered the mainland Jews very well. It had also covered the Christians very well. Of course the main stream Christians had already ascribed Jesus a son of God, which Qur'aan rejects flatly.

 

Of course, you can find no evidence because you are looking at the Jews of the then Israel. Besides the Jews and Christians of other lands, there were Jews and Christians who were also living in Eritrea, Ethiopia and Yemen.

 

The revelations to Muhammad did not just cover reports from abroad.

Sometimes, people would ask him teasing questions like the Jews did with the Master, I mean Jesus. When they asked, he would be silent as he did not know the answer. All of a sudden he would start receiving revelations asking him to tell and give the answer to the questionners.

 

Now there were Jews from Yemen who used to say that Ezra (Uzair) was the son of God. They believed so and that is when the vesre was revealed to tell them that God had no son, neither Uzair nor Jesus was the son of God. I don't think your scholar even knows that there were Jews in Yemen who believed that Ezra was the son of God.

  

"There is historical evidence that Jews did refer to Ezra as the son of Allah: the Encyclopaedia Judaica states, "H. Z. Hirschberg proposed another assumption, based on the words of Ibn Hazm, namely, that the 'righteous who live in Yemen believed that 'Uzayr was indeed the son of Allah.' According to other Muslim sources, there were some Yemenite Jews who had converted to Islam who believed that Ezra was the messiah. For Muhammad, Ezra, the apostle of messiah, can be seen in the same light as the Christian saw Jesus, the messiah, the son of Allah." Encyclopaedia Judaica, Ibid., p. 1108."

 

George, you asked: "

Can anyone explain why Allah said:  "Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"

Can anyone explain?"

 

Yes, I can. God used to curse, The children of Israel were always cursed by God and various prophets, a large number of curses also came from Jesus, which you can easily read in the Bible. You know "Woe to him and woe to them, the brood of vipers and so on."

 

In other words, since they were defaming and blaspheming the Lord God Almighty by saying that he had taken a son, in this case two sons, one Uzair and the other Jesus; God Almighty cursed them for telling a lie. After all God Almighty is the GOD and can do anything.

 

Hope this helped.

 

 



Edited by bmzsp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andalus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2006 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by George George wrote:

Please take a look at this verse from the Qur'an:

009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

I can find no evidence that the Jews ever called Uzair a son of Allah, not from Christian sources and not from Jewish sources.  I contacted a Jewish scholar and he said the same thing.

Hi George.

The problem is that you are assuming that the standardized form of 21st Rabbinical Jewry has been a singular, "monolithic" entity for the past 2000 years. The fact is, there was no centralized Jewish system for centuries after the fall of the second temple, and what did exist was comunites of diaspora Jews spread out across very different regions and cultures. The Jews the Quran was referring to were the community, or one of the groups in the comunity, within the sphere of the early Muslims.  

 

Originally posted by George George wrote:

Can anyone explain why Allah said:  "Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"

Can anyone explain?

Thank you.

Sure: Gd gives a path. The path is altered. Gd now puts forth punishment.  

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2006 at 9:33am

Originally posted by BMZ BMZ wrote:

Now there were Jews from Yemen who used to say that Ezra (Uzair) was the son of God. They believed so and that is when the vesre was revealed to tell them that God had no son, neither Uzair nor Jesus was the son of God. I don't think your scholar even knows that there were Jews in Yemen who believed that Ezra was the son of God.  

"There is historical evidence that Jews did refer to Ezra as the son of Allah: the Encyclopaedia Judaica states, "H. Z. Hirschberg proposed another assumption, based on the words of Ibn Hazm, namely, that the 'righteous who live in Yemen believed that 'Uzayr was indeed the son of Allah.' According to other Muslim sources, there were some Yemenite Jews who had converted to Islam who believed that Ezra was the messiah. For Muhammad, Ezra, the apostle of messiah, can be seen in the same light as the Christian saw Jesus, the messiah, the son of Allah." Encyclopaedia Judaica, Ibid., p. 1108." 

Sorry, BMZ, but your "historical evidence" does not work.  Look closely.  This is not a Jewish source but an Islamic one�"words of Ibn Hazm."  "According to other Muslim sources," etc.  H. Z. Hirschberg proposed another assumption,�. 

Looks like this quote from the Encyclopaedia Judaica originally came from Osama Abdallah's site or Saifullah's site, perhaps Osama copying Saifullah or Saifullah copying Osama. 

 

There is another thing missing from your/their Encyclopaedia Judaica quote and it is this:

 

You/they quote from this book, leaving out the part, just a two pages prior, which says "Muhammad claims (sura 9:30) that in the opinion of the Jews, 'Uzayr (EZRA) is the son of God. These words are an enigma because no such opinion is to be found among the Jews, even though Ezra was singled out for special appreciation." [Encyclopaedia Judaica, "Ezra," volume 6, pp. 1106-1107

 

The Encyclopaedia Judaica, the same version Osama/Saifullah quoted from, says quite plainly that NO SUCH OPINION IS TO BE FOUND AMONG THE JEWS. Osama/Saifullah, however, seemed to have left this part out when he quoted from the EJ. 

The Jewish Encyclopedia also has no reference.  The Jewish Encyclopedia includes an enormous amount of information from thousands of years of Jewish history.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/directory.jsp?partition=10 &letter=U

The Jews would have had no reason to hide the "fact" that some Jews believed that Ezra was the son of God, since there have been other Jews who thought that others were the Messiah which turned out not to be the case�that is historically true within the documents of Judaism.  Other than that a son of God could be described as a person who had a special relationship with God and the title "son of God" would have been in the figurative sense, just as Jesus being called the Son of God is in the figurative sense and not the literal sense. 

Originally posted by BMZ BMZ wrote:

In other words, since they were defaming and blaspheming the Lord God Almighty by saying that he had taken a son, in this case two sons, one Uzair and the other Jesus; God Almighty cursed them for telling a lie. After all God Almighty is the GOD and can do anything.

How can they have been defaming and blaspheming God when God in the Hebrew Scriptures claims to have many sons in the figurative sense?

 

Peace

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2006 at 11:58pm

George,

You are looking at the wrong encyclopedia.  The links are not important. What is important is common sense.

The point is that the entire Arabia, Yemen, Eretria, Somalia, Oman and even ancient India also had Jews besides the Jews of Judea and their practices and customs varied.

As I said earlier, the Jews of Arabia and the region next, did say that Uzair (Ezra) was the son or Son of God and they were told through Qur'aan that neither Uzair nor Jesus were the Sons or sons of Allah.

back to your quote: "How can they have been defaming and blaspheming God when God in the Hebrew Scriptures claims to have many sons in the figurative sense?"

Okay, name all the names of many sons that God had according to Hebrew Scriptures in the figurative sense, please.

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2006 at 9:37am

No, BMZ, I looked into the same encyclopedia that you cited.  The Jews never claimed that Ezra was a son of God and then I gave you another source confirming that fact.

 

But even if some Jews said this the Arabic in Surah 9:30 does not support "some."  It clearly says the Jews, meaning all of them.  Allah would have specified which Jews said this and not put a curse on all Jews.

Waqalati (they say) alyahoodu (The Jews) AAuzayrun (Ezra) ibnu (son of) Allahi (Allah)
waqalati (they say) alnnasara (the Christians) almaseehu (the messiah) ibnu (son of) Allahi (Allah)

Yusuf Ali translates this as:  There are some of the Jews who say, `Ezra is the son of Allah,' while the Christians say, `The Messiah is the son of Allah.' ...

Even someone with a very rudimentary knowledge of Arabic can see that the definite article is used to designate both THE Jews, alyahoodu and THE Christians, alnnassara. So to translate 'alyahoodu' as 'some of the Jews' and 'alnnasara' as THE Christians is a travesty of the original Arabic.

I have this from two people who know Arabic; it is the native language of one of them who reads the Qur'an and the Bible in Arabic.

[QUOTE-BMZ]

Okay, name all the names of many sons that God had according to Hebrew Scriptures in the figurative sense, please. [/QUOTE]

Psalm 2: 7. I will tell of the decree; The Lord said to me, "You are My son; this day have I begotten you.  [God is speaking of David.]

Exodus 4:22

22. And you shall say to Pharaoh, 'So said the Lord, "My firstborn son is Israel." '

23. So I say to you, 'Send out My son so that he will worship Me, but if you refuse to send him out, behold, I am going to slay your firstborn son.' "

Hosea 11:1. For, when Israel was young, I loved him, and from Egypt I called My son.

There are many different meanings of the word "son."  It can refer to literal offspring as well as to metaphorical offspring.  Another meaning of "son" has to do with those who belong to the same class of being.  Thus the angels are called benei 'elohim, "sons of God.," meaning those who share in the qualities of 'elohim: partaking of heavenly, spirit nature as opposed to the earthly, flesh nature of humans.

Angels, kings and the nations of Israel could be called "sons of God."  In the Hebrew Scriptures, it seems that God had many sons.  And Israel was even call his "firstborn."

 

I am guessing that Allah is cursing these "Jews" because he believes that the Jews are saying that Allah had sex with Ezra's mother and produced the "son of God" Ezra.  I don't know what else it could be. 

Peace



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2006 at 8:46pm

George,

Looks like you took out some kind of frustration expressing in a very crude manner the following:

From you, George: "I am guessing that Allah is cursing these "Jews" because he believes that the Jews are saying that Allah had sex with Ezra's mother and produced the "son of God" Ezra.  I don't know what else it could be."

Allah or Yahweh or Yahuweh or I Am did not have any sex with Isaiah's wife or Zechariah's wife or Ezra's mother or the mother of Jesus, Mary. Neither did "God Jesus" had sex with his own mother.

That was uncalled for and was in extremely poor taste.

Allah, the God Almighty, the Yahweh, the Father, the I AM and The First & the Last is cursing both the Jews and Christians for assigning Sons to God, whose name in Arabic is Allah, for the simple reason that Allah the God is not a human and does not beget and did not beget any sons, even figuratively and does not need one.

God Almighty is The Most High and the Lowest cannot be ascribed to God Almighty as sons.

Muslims do not believe that Allah, God Almighty, Yahweh had any sex with women. To suggest sex is the biggest blasphemy of them all, against God Almighty Allah, also known as Yahweh.

Can you think of a term better than "Begat" or "Begotten"? It is not really proper to use that. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alibaba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2006 at 9:09am

John 1:12:    "BUT AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME THE SONS OF GOD, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME (JESUS)."

This is a well-known vs. from the NT Gospel of John.  It was written many years before Islam came on the scene to disclaim Christian doctrine.  Christians enter into a sonship relationship with God through Christ.  Muslims know nothing of this kind of relationship, since Allah is so far above humanity and creation that he is not a Father to man, nor can he be.

Jesus, the Word, was born into the world and lived on earth as the "only-begotten" Son of God.  This means, that the Holy Spirit overshadowed the Blessed Virgin, and caused to grow within her womb (without any sexual act), an ovum which became the human nature of the Divine Word.  Joined together, the Divine Nature and the Human Nature, were one in Christ as He walked the earth. 

Only pagans and fools could believe that Christianity teaches that God the Father was the sexual partner of Mary.  Muslims have misunderstood this since the beginning of their religion, and continue to either misunderstand or pointedly misrepresent this doctrine to this very day.

 



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