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Do they hate the koran?

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    Posted: 18 July 2005 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

Brother, I respect your response. I hold no reason or desire to attack you or anyone else at all. I am not the United States of America.

They are in the habit of doing that - at least since 1953 - their invasion of Iran. It was an elected government and no one was oppressing anyone.

This sura is about "mediating" between people. I didn't realise that we need the entire war machinery, heavy tanks, the fastest aircraft and tonnes of depleted uranium to mediate between people. So, from today, I should start reading "mediation" whenever a country is invaded?

Please do tell me what we should do with the word "Invasion". Shall we not have it deleted from the dictionary as it has become a bit redundant?



Francis J. Gavin is an international security fellow at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, Harvard University:

Politics, Power, and U.S. Policy in Iran, 1950-1953
"On 19 August 1953, elements of the Iranian army, acting on orders from the Shah and
with covert support from the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), deposed Mohammed
Mossadegh as the Prime Minister of Iran. Mossadegh�s overthrow climaxed more than two
years of crisis stemming from Iran�s clash with Great Britain over the nationalization of the
British owned Anglo-Iranian Oil company. Early in the crisis, the United States was
sympathetic to Mossadegh�s nationalization program, and went to great lengths to convince the
British to negotiate a fair settlement with Iran. Throughout 1951 and 1952, the U.S.
government steadfastly refused to sanction any unilateral attempt by Great Britain to end the
crisis through non-diplomatic means."

Geo-politics is rarely as simplistic as Sasha (Whisper) implies.


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Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2005 at 5:03pm

Brother, I respect your response. I hold no reason or desire to attack you or anyone else at all. I am not the United States of America.

They are in the habit of doing that - at least since 1953 - their invasion of Iran. It was an elected government and no one was oppressing anyone.

This sura is about "mediating" between people. I didn't realise that we need the entire war machinery, heavy tanks, the fastest aircraft and tonnes of depleted uranium to mediate between people. So, from today, I should start reading "mediation" whenever a country is invaded?

Please do tell me what we should do with the word "Invasion". Shall we not have it deleted from the dictionary as it has become a bit redundant?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2005 at 4:14pm

I do not see why each is a seperate section when it comes down to talking to you, with all due respect, you have used nearly every forum section i posted on as a basis to attack me on one actually 2 posts about that i respect the muslim who wishes the best even in the worst situations. However, because you are a leader with such grand following and prestige, i will comply to you request of what i interpret through you words as meaning an ayat that justifies my view point of respecting the muslim in the US military, but after this i expect you to reply my post under current events which i already requested you to answer, I hope i can expect a certain cautiousness, deep reflection and prudence in answering it, especially from a leader, and i do not think i need to remind you that this intails great responsibilty. Here is the ayah which i see a muslim following with the right intentions, even in the US military, Chapter The women, annisaa 4:85-who mediates between people with good shall be the gainer by it, and whomever mediate with evil between men, it shall be for him. and a burden from it, and Allah was over everything "powerful?" further in this same chapter it says this

4:92 Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to Allah. for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom.

Now if we are to see every war as unjust when it comes down to believers being in that land, then how is this possible? a believer belonging to a people with whom you have war?

4:93 If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.

Ofcourse a muslim in the US army will avoid killing another muslim intentionally. And a true mu'min will not put inocent lives at stake for some nationalistic ideas, this war is not about faith, and a mu'min will certainly not kill them just because they want to practice their right of casting their vote, or joining the police force or army. Or are you going to tell me that islam forbids voting or joining the army or police force? So was it a good cause to rid Saddam and his system and people from power? does the koran tell us to just look at the injustice and be a witness to it? no not only but Allah asks us yet again in the chapter, and hear again the name of the chapter Annisaa(the women)

4:75 And what is it with you that you do not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! take us away from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"

Allah asks us what it is with us that we do not fight in His cause and the cause of those opressed men and women and childeren. We muslims should be there in Iraq and fight those who see freedom of choice as an enemy to islam.  Instead of helping those who came with the intentions to free them and to help(most of the US army, and the muslims amongst them)  they chose to kill aid workers who had the intentions to help, and soldiers who came to free them, and ofcourse the US military is not made up out of Muslims only, so you see alot going wrong, like bombing first before going in, instead the islamic way of making sure you do not kill any innocents, if this was the case, that the US army was made up out of mostly muslims, the situation would have been much smoother and smoother means faster. Unfortunatly most muslims nowadays are sitting on the bench booing and complaining about how bad of a job the US military is doing, kind of imbarassing to say the least. But i am hopefull that muslims will come to terms with their traditions that are holding them back from really seeing what is good and wholesome (a free people) and what is bad(opressed men women and childeren), and good and bad does not mean what your teacher tells you, but one should recognize this out of his ownself, otherwise that person is just a facade, a programmed robot, and the program might be seriously flawed, depending on who programmed him. Because really, there is no other option.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2005 at 2:37pm

Sorry, not good excuse. There is no linkage between any of these strings. Each is a separate section.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2005 at 12:37pm
I am waiting for your answer to my post under current events...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2005 at 6:48am

Have you evaporated Community? Or, are you still waiting for further instruction form the Pentagon's Disinformation through the Koran Ayats Bureau?

Don't you have the courage to own up or take responsibilty of your own postings. Who has appointed you as the Sole Franchise Holder on the Koran and its translations?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2005 at 6:39am
Community, are you scared to answer my post?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2005 at 2:19am

So, they all misinterpret the Koran?

And, you are the only one now left in the world with the right divine translation? Specially for justifying invasions and occupations.

I am still waiting for an ayat that asks us to lie down and lick the criminal enemy's boots - or to join his army and kill our own brethern.

I am an Afghan. I have 2.2 million followers, 28 schools with Dar ul Shafaqaats (Affection Centres) and 500 acres University being commissioned this October (at Khaliqabad, Pakistan). We hang people who desecrate the Koran in any manner - of course only and by the verdict of a Jirga and after a proper trial.



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