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Muslim Woman Pleads Guilty
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 June 2008 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by Mystical Mystical wrote:

 However for you to try and claim this as a non-Muslim problem is beyond laughable. You forget girls anyone can google "honor killings" and see for themself that the majority of these types of killings are practised by Muslims NOT non-Muslims like you are implying.

 

NOBODY here is saying that it is a non-muslim problem. What we are saying is that it is almost JUST AS RAMPANT in non-muslims AS IT IS IN muslims. Nobody here is denying that muslims have committed honour-killings, even in the 'name' of Islam . . . ALL WE ARE SAYING is that this is AGAINST Islam, as in something Islam does not vouch for/encourage/cause.  Just because a muslim commits a crime, does not automatically classify it AS ISLAMIC. Why do we only get to hear of muslim honor-killings?. . . bcz thats what ppl wanna hear, its currently the Islam-Bashing-Age, just like decades ago it was the Communism-Bashing-Age. Hence you will see a pattern of reporting in the Media. Years ago, Communism was the root of evil in the world, NOW it is Islam. This too shall pass.
 
Good to know anyone can google nowadays . . .perhaps they should also try and Google all the above mentioned honour-killings. Read the Japanese Culture, the Hindu Culture etc etc etc
 
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amongst Arab nations then it is the Arab culture that spurns such loathsome behaviour.
 
Y-E-S. Cultures may spurn loathsome behaviour. Culture is to blame. Also FYI Culture is NOT the product of any ONE religion (e.g Islam) RATHER a mixture of VARIOUS indigineous + foriegn religions/traditions/practises. THUS the Arab Culture is NOT EQUAL to Islam . . . rather is the product of various traditions/cultures OVER CENTURIES. Which includes Pagan rituals, Judaistic Beliefs, Christianity, WitchCraft AS WELL AS Islam. Thus you cannot say Islam is to blame for Arabia's problems. Islam has been around only for 1400 yrs, there are religions/taboos/rituals FAR FAR older that have existed in Arabia hence had an effect on its CULTURE.
 
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Islam on the surface does not condone honor killings yet many who commit are given such light sentences that their is never is justice for the victim. The horror of such crimes is that the whole family usually gets invovled plans and execute this dispicable crime.
 
Y-E-S. Islam does NOT condone honour-Killings. . . there is no 'on the surface' or 'beneath the surface'. Islam is stark clear about its practices and does not sugar-coat things. Had Islam been tolerant of such practices, it would have been clear. But it is not . . . rather we hav given u examples from the Texts themselves which spk against this. Its human-nature that we believe what we WANT to believe despite having facts stare at us nose-to-nose.  
 
Again the culprit is the sham-state that does not implement Islam. For an example, refer to Islam under the INITIAL Caliphate and Prophethood and you will find, muslims did not practise it.
  
[/QUOTE]
 
So pl do not confuse culture/ppl's actions and sham-states with Islam.
 
Peace.
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Mystikal if I may, just because the demographics of this type of act (e.g. honor killings) happens to be among Muslims does not make it a religious behavior nor does it point to Islam. you have made a generalization in stating that "honor" is at the core of Arab culture. This may be true. but this is also true for Central and South Asians, Japanese, Central and South Americans. The ideas of what is honorable and what is not avries of course and the punishment for these violations vary culturally. However becareful in brushing everyone with the same stroke because you need to support your reasoning.

Honor killings do happen in ethical cultural groups but this is not a Muslim issue because if it was then we would see this phenonmena happening in great numbers in the U.S. as well. In addition if this is a Muslim problem why aren't most of us practicing this anyway? Why are we speaking out against it? Like I said just because it is happening in an Muslim populated country does not mean it is associated with Islam just as college rape in the United States is not associated with being an American citizen. These cultural abnormalities that a lot of times is accepted by the domestic culture. But this is far from the thread's title.
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Hey dudettes

you seem to be taking my comments re honor killings rather personally. I understand of course how my opinion can be offensive to you as a Muslim. Who wants to claim their religion inspires such barbaric actions? However for you to try and claim this as a non-Muslim problem is beyond laughable. You forget girls anyone can google "honor killings" and see for themself that the majority of these types of killings are practised by Muslims NOT non-Muslims like you are implying. If Islam is a way of life and this problem is a predominantly Muslim phenomenon especially amongst Arab nations then it is the Arab culture that spurns such loathsome behaviour. However Arab culture is ingrained into Islam so there is no getting away from the fact that those who have been brought to answer for their crimes use the Quran and Islam to defend their actions.....as do the Muslim terrorists who plague this earth, it is their religion that inspires them not their culture. If it is culture tell me which culture places family honor over that of an idividuals life? Honor is at the very core of Arab culture I would say.

Islam on the surface does not condone honor killings yet many who commit are given such light sentences that their is never is justice for the victim. The horror of such crimes is that the whole family usually gets invovled plans and execute this dispicable crime.
 
 
 
 
 
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Shasta's Aunt, I have to apologize I kept calling you Shanta's Aunt Embarrassed
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Originally posted by Mystical Mystical wrote:

 
 
As Islam does not speak out AGAINST this many in their own Muslim country do so with impunity. 
 
 
 
No "Honour Killings" as such existed at the time of the Prophet, which is why there are no specific verses which condemn it using those words.
 
There ARE however lots of verses & ahadith that talk about taking a person's life (both male & female) and what a big sin it is. There are also verses which talk SPECIFICALLY about female genocide.
 
Chapter 81:
AT-TAKWIR (THE OVERTHROWING, THE ROLLING)
Verse 8:
 
 . . . ." When the female (infant), buried alive, is questioned - For what crime she was killed;" . . .
 
Chapter 5, verse 32:
 
"if anyone slays a human beingunless it be for murder or for spreading corruption on earth-it shall be as though he had slain all mankind; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind"
 
The above verse refers to men, women, children, muslims/non-muslims alike.
There are also numerous ahadith which talk about the sin of murders, as well as specifically of female genocide.
 
So don't say that Islam does not speak out against Honour-Killings.
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there are also a number of honour killings in the UK each year.
 
 
some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mystical Mystical wrote:

[QUOTE=Angel][quote=Mystical]It is a fact that the thing" it would also then Christian nations would also be infested just as much as Muslim nations are with senseless honor killings. However this is OFF TOPIC and this topic here is more a crime of passion rather than honor killing.
 
Refer to Honour Killings in India. India is predominantly a Non-Muslim state. . . and you will find what are called "Stove-Killings" there. Where the Mother-in-law . . .or the In-Laws incl. Husband KILL the bride if she does not bring a big enough dowry with her. Which is ALSO done in the name of honour, because if the family's daughter in law brings a large dowry, it brings honour to the family.
 
The daughter-in-law is sometimes also killed if she cannot give birth to a Male Heir (even though if its anyones fault, it is the Father's, since he couldnt produce a Y-chromosome.) Which again is in the name of honour.
 
A lot of times, (again in India , where the pre-dominant religion is Hinduism) the newly born DAUGHER is either Killed. . . or more than often aoborted nowadays . . .because daughters bring dishonour to them. Again an honour-killing. Which is why in India, the male to female ratio is more because of this practise.
 
You can EASILY find all this info online. Should I be blaming the HINDU RELIGION for acts committed by ppl who give precedance to culture? and thier twisted interpretations of Honour?
 
ENGLAND: Not so long ago . . .Men would fight duels to 'defend' thier honour if an affair/adultery took place. ATLEAST one death was inevitable during these duels. . . this again was in the name of honour. Just because the 'victim' was a male doesnt mean its not an honour-killing. Although this was against the english law, these duels still took place, and were rampant. Despite being illegal. Niether the religion nor law condoned it.


Edited by Chrysalis - 08 June 2008 at 6:59am
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Mystical:
 
I can see that you are one of those people who believe what they want to believe no matter what evidence to the contrary is given.  It must be comforting to you to be so secure in your own narrow vision of the world, however, other people might find this offensive since it comes across as very accusative and insulting.
 
Despite the denials from Muslims and non-Muslims alike on this board, along with postings with links to credible sources that state to the contrary you continue on, even going so far as to condone crimes of passion: "I had not read that it was but even so) it was a crime of passion that one can sympathise with."   which are in fact honor killings as they are known in the west. 
This speaks volumes to me, as I am sure to others reading your posts, about your intentions. Most non-Muslims come here to actually learn about Islam, some come for other more notorious reasons. Such a shame.  However, this is an Islamic discussion forum and I am sure that whatever your religious beliefs and/or cultural leanings, it is still probably considered very rude within your circle to visit someone's home with the sole purpose of insulting them.
 
 
 


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 08 June 2008 at 1:07am
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