My thoughts My view - part 2

Hi Angel, I guess it would be not prudent to put everything on the Muslim members of this forum to reply the obivous misunderstandings of someone, even though they have been explictly highlighted. Nevertheless, I may try to pick up your points from your big muddle of postings and see how it can be appropriately replied. I don't know how you want to go about it replies, however, here is your post.

Sure I agree with that but what if one calls themselves something as in this case 'islamic terrorists' proclaim to follow the quran and proclaim to be muslim, then what ? Are we just going to ignore it ?

No, we must not ignore it. Rather ask for evidence as from where in Quranic verses are they referring to? Secondly, do they have any scholarly opinion on which they have based based their interpretation or at least do they have any logic in their view?

As I have said many times before for muslims, if one proclaims to be muslim you ought to believe them, its in the quran is not ?

Bellieving them in what sense? One may believe in their seriousness but its a totally a different thing if one believe in the correctness of their proclamations. Isn't it? Every claim must be verified against the references e.g. Quran etc, if they provide any.

And in a way islamic terrorists are fighting for islam so really you cannot denouce that either.

That is an assertion without evidence. Would you consider all crusaders fought for Christianity? I don't think so. Do you?

One says they are fighting for true islam and the other says they are also fighting for true islam, which is it, who is right ?

Very simple. Go for evidence they provide from the references and then consult those who know the scripture to find out who is right and who is wrong.

No one stands up to the terrorists and say to them they are wrong nor to the world. If these terrorists are so wrong then somethings got to be done! But nothing is.

This again a misleading statement. Who are the victims of these terrorists? Aren't the Muslims themselves? You seemed to ignore my argument of highlighting the efforts of Muslim countries, such as Pakistan, to resist such fanatics.

The answer that seems to float around its the west fault and its the US faults, and that they should pull out then the terrorists acts will stop, that is a load of crap. Sorry to say and I'm not enitrely excusing the US or the West, I own they got stuff to be blamed for. Everytime this issue comes up I bring up the same and what is excepted of a muslim and it never gets refuted. You can't say that not its islamic.

Kindly see my comments about this on this forum at http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2077& ; ; ;PN=1&TPN=8 and also see page 9 of the same thread.

If the terrorists are so wrong and wrong about the quran, then do something! You can't say that the media has got it wrong and others got it wrong when the terrorists proclaim otherwise. Sure the terrorists maybe just a handful among the 1 billion other muslims but surely 1 billion can out do the terrorists if a mass demostration and action is against them (terrorists) I can tell you now that if things are going the way it is then the terrorists will gain their islam. While nothing gets done, the terrorists have won anyway and you know what they know it because they know what is prescribe in the quran and what fellow musims must do.

It is not correct to say that nothing is being done by Muslims. Muslims are resisting these people both intellectually as well as physically.

And another thing, how can those in proverty be terrorists they don't have the means to get arms. The proverty get sucked in by the promise if they fight for islam they will have all the good in heaven, Jannah. No, it is the well off people who are educated both in islam and qur'an. It is those (terrorists) that are fighting for islam under the milltary guidence in the qu'ran. If I am wrong then correct me.

Yes, you are  absolutely wrong in this view. Yes, they may be well off people, but fanaticism is not exclusive to poors; Yes, they may be educated people; however, their education is in everything but the Quran. Not every modern learned Muslim can be taken for granted to be learned in Islam as well. This is especially true for those living in non-Muslim countries.

I want to know why the many muslims who say that the islamic terrorists are wrong and yet do not fight them, are they (terrorists) not fighting against Islam ? Aren't you suppose to be fighting for islam also ? fight those who fight against you.

O my sister, what kind of fighting are you talking about? As I said, fighting against is going on on both intellectual as well as at physical level, but by the appropriate people. Your assertions are really beyond comprehension.

I wonder what the Prophet would do ? Angel.

Angel, this may sound really silly, but, perhaps you could really clear up a lot of your own confusion about Islam by reading a good interpretation of the meaning of the Qur'an in English (one with commentary would be most helpful to you - try A. Yusuf Ali, or Muhammad Asad).

That way, you would see for yourself exactly what is in the Qur'an.  Hadith can be a very confusing 'science' even to Muslims - how the string of narrators works, which are weak or strong, reliable sources....  Start with the Qur'an, I think it would really be helpful to you.

After you have read it (perhaps it could be your personal goal for Ramadhan! ), you may find all of your questions or confusion cleared up.  If not, I am sure some of us can try to help you again.  I don't know what other advice to give you at this point .  Read the Qur'an, Angel, then we will see what confusion you still have to clear up, O.K.?

(We are not scholars here, just regular people - so, when in doubt, go to the source! )

Peace, ummziba.

Angel wrote: AhmadJoyia wrote: If your questions get specific, so shall my response be. I am already specific enough and thorough to,  and also I have laid out everything. How much more specific do you want me to be? I cannot do anymore, sorry   If you truly cannot help, then fine.

Ironically, your incorrect "thoroughness" is of little value. Missunderstanding ahadith as a Quranic verses is very naive, if nothing else. Don't you think?

Bismillah,

Angel,

There are rules of war that Muslims follow.  When people break these very important rules, they can be considered non-Muslims, or at least hell bound.  You can do a search for the rules.  I need to take a walk with my child right now.