Evolution of Religion |
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amlhabibi2000
Guest Group Joined: 08 December 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 447 |
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Posted: 23 November 2005 at 3:23am |
Salam Alaikoam I have heard a number of wildrness retreat type programs and that they have been more successful than other types of programs or incarceration. I believe there is hope for reformation and prevention efforts redoubled in terms of places where open lines of communication my take place with dignity, condidentiality and supports teams. We need this kind of infra structures. Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi
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Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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b95000
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1328 |
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"Maybe the task vs punishment should be for them to have to make a
retreat into the desert, forest for a period of self reflection and
contemplation"
It's interesting there are now prison camps in the woods that have proven more effective in rehabilitating some kinds of prisoners.. |
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Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. |
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amlhabibi2000
Guest Group Joined: 08 December 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 447 |
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Alaikoam Salam I appreciate what you are saying though I believe if people has a chance to see they can have a little place of Paradise within themselves, their families, communities, Nations without resorting to violence or other abusive strategies and that they too can have a good life where there is dignity, respect and caring all way around. This is the Islam, Life I believe in. As for chastisement and punishment the most hardest of all punishments is working on yourself and becoming and educated, trained, caring, confedent and healthy praticipant in your Life, your Families, Communities and Nations. Current jails only serve to make people more bitter or deranged. There has to be more positive and creative ways to encourage and support people being good people and staying good people. You made a good point about background is no excuse, however education, training, counseling, consultation and Personal Hajj Pilgrimage to our Life is the only way to resolve these cha;llenges in a good way. Maybe the task vs punishment should be for them to have to make a retreat into the desert, forest for a period of self reflection and contemplation along with the educational training, counseling. Islam is far more than meets the eye.
Mahssallah a good consultation and discussion. Salam Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi Edited by amlhabibi2000 |
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Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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AhmedNagi
Groupie Joined: 18 November 2005 Location: Egypt Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahamtu Allahi Wa Barakatuh Dear sister, I totally understand your point of view. You say you 'believe that given the education, training and community support a person can become a better person'. What is that based on? Can you gauranttee the effectiveness of this? Also that still doesnt answer the question: how is this fair to the vicitims of crime? I admire your perseverence and commitment to ever imrpove yourself, but bear in mind that not everyone wants to learn. Broken homes are not an excuse to go out and hurt someone. No one is born a monster. That is very true. People choose to be monsters and they have to bear the consequences of their choices. I have seen alot of people choose the easy way even though they came from very healthy family structures, and I've also seen many spiritual people come from broken homes. If we let circumstances be the excuse of every criminal, everyone will have his/her excuse to commit every crime s/he wants. Islam is based on a punishing the disobedient to God and rewarding the obedient. Thats what God sees is best for man. |
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amlhabibi2000
Guest Group Joined: 08 December 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 447 |
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Salam Alaikoam Brother I understand what you are saying about capital punishment however I believe that given the education, training and community support a person can become a better person and if there is any kind of punsihment it may be a period of retreat to accept responsibility for themselves, their lives and how they can make amends in a positive and productive way. I would suggest that the major of people being violent, agressive, ignorant or apathitic is due to a lack of education, spiritual guidance and personal accountablitiy and a lack of community spirit and not understanding or having all their options known or available as well as open lines of communication or safe debriefing places of critical incedents as well as education in sexual health education and the affects on our minds and bodies of partial and total abstance and how to deal with these emotions and impulses in positive ways and manners. Brother we are not born Monsters and there are many factors in our choosing the paths that we choose and we need recognize some practices ie, total abstance or partial abstance along with not enough understanding or knowledge in how to have a healthy relationship with ourselves, others and the world and especially with our marriage partner and children. As we are both aware many people come from homes or back grounds where there was family violence, sibling violence, incest, unhealthy relationships, sexual abuse, drug abuse, alchol abuse, emotional abuse whether in our home, community and to rise above that mess we need excellent guidance and education that does not perpetuate violence or agressive abusive behavior in any manner. There is hope and we are that hope. I for the most part have been mostly positive in my attitude however ignorance caused me to become a Monster for a period of time and accepting this was the hardest and most devasting and empowering thing I have ever done. The hardest part was accepting that I had errored in my judgement and that I needed help to resolve my parenting and relationship challenges. Devastating because the one thing I wanted in all the World was to be the Best Wife and Mother. Empowering because as I began to draw on Community Infra structures and support services and learn better ways of coping and handling challenges it assisted me with finsding my voice of kindness again and stop being angry at everyone and the world and blaming others for all my challenges and problems. The reason I believe there is hope for redemption and forgiveness is because I found it in Myself first by learning new ways of being that are healthier, more productive and caring. Salam Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi
Edited by amlhabibi2000 |
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Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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AhmedNagi
Groupie Joined: 18 November 2005 Location: Egypt Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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Al Salamu alaykum Wa Rahamatu Allahi Wa Barakatuh Dear Sister, I understand your thoughts and beliefs to a large extent, but I guess I am failing to drive my point through. Consultation, education, and training are great. But the big question remains: how is that fair to the victims of crime when their violators go unpunished? Where is justice there? And I don't know how I can elaborate this point more, but these violators have been warned about the consequences of what they have done. To some people, counseling is good and helpful, but when they see an opprotunity to add to their wealth by stealing, which is alot easier than having to work, the counseling basically goes out of the window. Again, I ask, how long does counseling take and how many crimes can a person commit before conselling fully succeeds with their cases (if it ever does)? I understand your point about amputation having to be only used for medical purposes. The question I ask is what facts is this opinion based on? The issue is a very relative one. One person might find it very harsh to lock a thief up while the other might see a thief deserving capital punishment. Who can measure the weight of a crime with extreme fairness in order to be able to decide a just reaction to it? Bear in mind that in measuring the extremity of a crime, one has to know the consequences of every such crime in mankind's history to be able to come up with the right reaction that will keep it at a minimum and serve justice to all. To do that, one needs perfect knowledge. A turning leaf on one side of the world can cause a hurricane on the other side. I beleive that no one can be able to take up such a job except Allah. Allah sees us all as being equal except through our deeds. And it is his will that we carry out justice with the ill doers in the community; partly to force them to quit the crime they are doing and partly to deliver justice to the victims. When that is done, we have to treat the punished violators with compassion and love because they have paid their dues. I emphasize that none is endowed with enough wisdom to improve on Allah's rulings. We sometimes have to take actions we hate because they are right. And by 'right' I mean not what we would wish the case would be, but what is most beneficial to all mankind. Not only is counseling alone unjust to the victims who have been harmed, but it is also unjust to every person that has to pay for it through taxes when this person needs the money to feed his/her children. Bear in mind that these punishments (as brother Skswsdom has previously mentioned) are not to be carried out on the people who have commited these crimes out of necessity. They are to be carried out against people who commit these crimes when they could have been avoided. So it can be very unjust to handle criminals by making a poor man pay for their counseling for a crime commited to satisfy a whim or greed for something unnecessary. I would also like to mention that studies have concluded that poverty can be abolished if all the wealthy people of the world paid 1% of their wealth annually to the needy. This is very close to the Zakat fareeda which is 2.5%. So the world does not need counselling and training to abolish poverty. It needs people who will follow the will of God without questioning. Counseling is good but is not enough. We can use counseling along with carrying out justice, but that does not negate the necessity of justice. |
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amlhabibi2000
Guest Group Joined: 08 December 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 447 |
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Alaikoam Salam Thank you for your thoughtful posts. I realize my view of Islam is not shared by some people, however I am hoping that as people read, understand, comprehend and share and consult on the imformation I have presented here and on my websites that they will see that I love Islam and I love Life. I am hoping they will see that I believe in the good in them and that investing education, training in this good will encourage a greater spirit of good all round in themselves and the world. That even the ones we deem Monsters can be reeducated towards being a better person and that there is hope for redemption and ressurrection in them too for when Allah, God, The Creator Breathed of His Spirit in them His goal was to Create His Agent in this world to be gaurdian of themselves, others and the world and do good things, say good things, believe good things and assist with participating in the Greatest Wonder of the World an end to Poverty, Violence and Ignorance with World Arising Responsibly and Spiritually. We and the World are worth the effort! Inshallah there will be a redoubling of people sorting into groups to learn new ways of being that are more caring, peaceful and democratic. Surah 99, 1-8 We are the Hope of the world may we all educate ourselves in trades, proffessions and how to cope with the wide range of emotions, feelings and impulses we are tested with just Like Adam and Eve in the Graden, Moses on the Mountain, Jesus in the Desert, Mohammed PBUH in the Caves and Buddha under the Bodhi Tree in Our Daily Lives. Let the Surah of your Life be one filled with positive endeavors at personal growth, education, training and supporting less fortunate people in their challenges as well as being a leader in your own right. May Allah Bless each of us abundantly with Insight and the confidence to ask questions and seek knowldge even when we feel like whats the point. Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi Edited by amlhabibi2000 |
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Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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Skswsdom
Newbie Joined: 08 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful ... Edited by Skswsdom |
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